Why Don't Crossdressers Make Progress?

[Vicky_Scot]

The thing is being gay or lesbian or bisexual is about sexuality.

Being TG is about gender.

Sexuality and gender are two different issues, but that's a post for another day.

If the TG community really want to try and make a point it should be that we are not part of the gay community. We are tagged onto the end of the gay scene because "society" does not know where else to put us and because"society" assumes that we are gay.

[CaptLex]

I have tried that in a bigger way than you know but it back fired on me and i paid a very heavy price for it so that doe`s not always work for the individual

joanne

Nothing worth having is ever easy - in fact, it often comes with a heavy price. History is full of stories of hard-won freedoms: women's right to vote, the Stonewall riots, the civil rights movement, etc.

Joanne, I'm not saying you personally should sacrifice your life, family, security, etc. I was speaking in general of those who want equal rights but want them at the expense of someone else's activities.

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

This is silly. The same people who accept gays accept us as well. The same people who cannot accept us also cannot accept gays.

Maybe my world is different from yours?

[Kimberley]

I really dont know why the Gay/Lesbian thing has to enter into this. The only real connection we have with them is that they preceeded us in gaining their rights and "acceptance" such as it is depending on where you are.

Now, there is a huge difference between a gay man wearing a Brooks Bros. suit sitting in a boardroom than there is a guy wearing heels and a Donna Karan suit at the same table. The same holds true in any aspect of public life. There is a credibility question that is raised. Someone who is gay does not wear a tee shirt proclaiming it so the perception of others is quite normal unless s/he is out and there are prejudices at play.

THAT is what has to be overcome; prejudices founded in ignorance, the same as the gays had to overcome it. Only when the public at large could see they were no threat did things ease up for them.

Still there are a lot of "right of center" elements that are in this ignorance group and no amount of advertising is going to change the fire and brimstone of Sunday mornings.

Sacrifices have to be made for sure and there are people who have made them; the trouble is no one in the law making community is listening. That is where the first steps have to be made and so far they are unsteady at best.


Kimberley

[Steveo]

hello, two things really, is it not the case that gay's are generaly seen to have a medical problem, there for not their fault, so a modicum of acceptance. but a man in womens clothing is his choice there for a pervert. apolagees. one more thing as to acceptance im reading some books from the victorian eara, letters sent to papers, that suggest a wide spread theatrical life style for crossdressers but that was over a centery ago so no i don't beleave we have moved on at the rate that should now have our comunity at least accepted,

[Sophia KT]

This thread is hardly started and there are already the signs of fragmentation over sexuality, etc.


The problem is that where we are accepted in law we are not in general life [so in word only]; we are left to get on with it, each fighting the same battle and the same pain over and over [individually].

Until there is an MP [or congress person, is it?] who is a tv then we will have no real influence. It's fine for someone to say 'I support the.....yada yada...blah' but unless they are one of us they don't know anything.



This site is a godsend though.

Sophia

[Melanie R]

Jayme Fay is like our adopted daughter. A beautiful person who we believe will win the 2008 Ms. Transgender Beauty Pageant of Houston. This past Saturday night she attended her first Houston Transgender Unity Banquet. She was on cloud nine. This years 16th annual Houston Transgender Unity Banquet broke all the records in attendance as the largest single city TG event in the US with over 100 large and small companies such as Shell Oil and Chase providing financial support for the banquet and sending representatives from their companies. Through their financial support we were able to raise over $12,000 for the Peggy Rudd TG Scholarship Fund (named in honor of my wife' ), for our Pride Parade participation and other annual activities. The Comptroller and future mayor of Houston presented a proclamation from the City of Houston proclaiming April 26 as Houston Transgender Unity Day. There were four Houston councilmen in attendance and one judge. Jenny Boylan (author of She's Not There) was our fabulous key note speaker. Jenny and our other visitors from the major TG activists groups in the country were in awe by what we have accomplish over the last 16 years in Houston. Yes, it can be done but it takes dedication, working together and a lot of time. We challenge other cities in the US to follow our lead.

Hugs,

Melanie

I was very surprised and delighted to find out there are, here is a quote from an article in the Winter 2007 edition of the "The Mirror" by Jayme Fay a MtF CD.

"I was recently a contestant in the 2007 Ms. Transgender Beauty Pageant of Houston. Sorry I didn't win but I had a lot of fun. This was really a Unity type event. All of the different groups in the Houston area were involved. Our escorts for the ball gown event were from S.T.A.G.(Some Transgenders Are Guys). It was interesting meeting female crossdressers as guys. They were great."

There was also a pic in the article showing Jayme and her FtM escort together. Pretty awesome IMO.

[TSchapes]

I've joined our GLBT support group at work. I've joined as a "Straight Allies" for now. We are a small group, out of a large corporation, there were maybe 15 of us at the last meeting. There are many more that belong to this group. I know of one TS in the group and she had SRS 30 years ago. She and I have had many discussions because just the two of us have different agendas.

Still after all these years she says HR still thinks Sexual Orientation & Gender Identity are lifestyles. Like, I like to go to my yacht on the weekends kind of lifestyle, as if it's a choice! Sexual Orientation & Gender Identity are woven together whether we like it or not. She's been fighting for health rights that still aren't covered after all these years. We don't have gender protection language in our HR manual like we do gay protection. And yet, there are still gays at work that fear coming out. We actually hold the meetings off site for this reason.

Now her question to me was, what do you want (in so many words)? Because with us, since we are changelings, people don't know how we want to be treated.

Her example: So Tracy, you show up at work on Mondays and Tuesdays and Wednesdays & Thursdays you are drab, and since it's Casual Friday, you come in something androgynous. How should people threat you? Are you going to change names? Do you wish to be treated as a women when you are dressed as such? Which bathroom will you use? What if people snicker now and we have this gender protection language, are you going to sue these insensitive people?

Now I know I said I wish to be treated with respect, but do you see what others may see? And in this outlandish case, does the company now have to have third sex bathrooms? Because now it's a matter of accommodation. This is what they are afraid of. What do we have to do now to accommodate this group of people, will it never end?

And to be honest, I told her all I want at this time, is if the information of my CDing became common knowledge through no direct action of myself. That I would be protected from being fired. Plan and simple. I have no desire to dress as Tracy at work (OK maybe Halloween, but like that's different!) and I don't want to put in everyones face either. I think it would be nice sometimes if everybody knew and therefore understood me a little better and not hate me for it.

So do you see? I don't know what I want. Many girls here couldn't make a list of requirements and agree on them. So certainly trying to put anything in legal type language would be a nightmare.

One, last note, the media does treat us badly. But do we write or call them and tell them it is not appropriate? If we don't start standing up on this point, it's going to be harder to establish all the others.

-Tracy

[Fiona K]

We can be our own worst enemies sometimes- well, not quite as the red-neck with a 12 gauge is probably our worst enemy- but you know what I mean.

We do tend to get hung up on lables, whether we should be added to the LGB acronym or not and sometimes real homophobia expressed from within our ranks.

The LGBT community is generally a safe place for us, they understand persecution, we share some of the bumps in the road but in terms of acceptance we're 50 years behind.

This could be because Trans = Pervert in so many minds. We live in a world where even in Western "Liberal" Democracies the "Trans Panic" defence is still trotted out when a straight guy kills a trans-woman. Not if, when.

Also the confusion about what Trans means (which includes the whole sexuality thing) can be played out in our own heads and is just as confusing to LGB folks as so-called straights.

I've spent quite a few evenings attempting to explain to Lesbian and Gay folks that I don't fancy blokes, at all, in no way ever....... honest. And no I don't protest too much.

How do I explain that I feel feminine 100% of the time but not 100% feminine? Or that I have no intention of transitioning, not just because I'm too much of a coward.

The understanding of GRS is so dreadful too- the very thought threatens our patriarchal society, horrifies many feminists as they think guys are muscling in on their patch and sends the religious fundamentalists in to a blind rage.

What we need is to get beyond the questions to the point where it is only the nuts working to de-homo sheep that actually care what causes homosexuality or Trans-ness. Acceptance that it's real, not a threat and not going to go away.

That there's no cure because we ain't sick.

All this means we have a mountain to climb, but I've got my boots (with nice heels) on and am at the foot hills just now, maybe I'll see us get to base camp before I die? I hope so, for all our sakes.

[jaina]

The problem is that how can members of the TG community come out and shout for their rights in the public domain when the majority of them are hiding it from their own partners/spouses and family.

This is the reason.
People need to get out and stop hiding, only then will things change.

[gennee]

There are a lot more lesbians and gays that are out than crossdressers who are out. The majority of us are locked in the dark recesses of our closets.

You can take action:
Contact your local, state and federal legislators and ask them to support transgender rights.
Stand up for transgender rights in your workplace. It is not necessary to out yourself by standing up against discrimination.
If you are out, be a positive role model.

Most Pride events include transgendered people, find out when your local Pride event is and participate.

Remember, if you do not choose to stand up for your rights don't expect anyone else to.

[SIZE="3"]
I agree with you, Trannie. Not enough of us are out there. I've been out in public many times and didn't out myself. I'm not afraid of being out in public. I marched in the vets parade twice and I was dressed. I try to be positive model because there may be someone who may be struggling or trying understand what we are about.

Gennee[/SIZE]

[KimberlyS]

Jamie, IMHO you said the big reason.

.... pride marches

They gays showed their numbers and many many many came out. When we start seeing TG/CD rallies and marches and a lot more CD's and TG's come out in the public eye we will see some action and change happen. But many of us have families and if they are like myself they are afraid of the affects of coming out on our family. Look how long it is taking Susan (steve) to get a job after being fired from Largo. Along with loosing a family setting to live in.

[Sophia KT]

Referring to Melanie R, TSchapes, and Fiona K

It is so good that someone, somewhere is having a 'tg day' and that it is supported by people in power.

Law/health and safety are hardly going to help us: legal langage is only 1/2 what is sensibly expressable and needs the boot for wasting time [IMO].

We have a mountain to climb alright, but tvs are as inevitable as global warming [which the've only just, barely accepted].


Sophia

[Nicki B]

I think the idea of a 'critical mass' is useful.. Until GLB folk discovered just how many of them there were, they stayed closeted and fought amongst themselves?

The only way we can make this change is by being willing to stand out and let others know we are here - on the internet and in real life..


Slowly, we are getting there. Attitudes have changed, IME. But, if you just hide in your closet, what right have you to complain that someone else isn't changing things for you?

[SweetCaroline]

We have come a long ways if you look over the last 50 years.

1950's

Cding was illegal in many states.
No discrimination protection anywhere
Getting beat up for being a CD was common and NOT against the law.
Most CDer were deep in the closet.
Never talked about on TV or media.
No SRS/FFS

TODAY

CDing is now legal in all states
Many states and cities have anti-discrimination laws that protect us.
Getting beat up for being a CD is NOW against the law.
With the invention of the Internet, more CDers are coming out of the closet.
Hardly a week does not go by that there is some form of media or TV exposure to CD/TSing.
SRS/FFS common today.

If I had gone out in public fully dress back then, I am sure someone would have pointed me out. Today even if someone does notice, they usually keep to themselves and/or done care.

So we have gain a lot over the last 50 years.

Word Sister!

We have a longways come, but still have a long ways to go.

Unfortunataly, it may also have a lot to do with region. Boston or San Francisco are very different from the Mid-west, or the South. And that's just the united states.

I think if we are going to be accepted, as gays and lesbians are now becoming, than we need to do nothing more than to be out there, and in the open, no matter where we live.

Shine on you crazy diamonds.

[harmony]

i live in a small town of 8000 or so.
i am well known here-buisness owner(restaurant) chamber of commerce etc.
a few yea rs ago i decided to come out to the public.i went to restaurants artgaleries bars clubs public and private parties.
always tastefully dressed i got to talk to many people about cding and gaining understanding and respect.

[Genifer Teal]

Closeted CDs are not jumping out to say here I am - take it or leave it. For the most part, they are stay ing in the closet. Progress is being made with the younger gereation. In some ways it is just like another way to be. It is not seen as a big deal. Not that everyone likes it and accepts it, just that it exists, so what. Older generations are so set in there ways it would be difficult to convert enough of them to a new level of acceptance. It is best to leave things as they are. I believe natural progression take its course. In due time we will still be seen as different but maybe not so wierd as some think now.

Gen

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

i live in a small town of 8000 or so.
i am well known here-buisness owner(restaurant) chamber of commerce etc.
a few yea rs ago i decided to come out to the public.i went to restaurants artgaleries bars clubs public and private parties.
always tastefully dressed i got to talk to many people about cding and gaining understanding and respect.

That's pretty easy to believe. I haven't really experienced any prejudice, even from internet trolls.
The worst people seem to be the women who feel their lifestyle is threatened. Most guys don't care. They giggle amongst themselves, but hell they do that for just about anything. It's normal behavior. I feel as if most transgenders see themselves as something special and think the world somehow treats them different. I don't see evidence of that. No amount of marching is going to make people like you if they aren't already open-minded.

At this point, what progress is to be made exactly? You want crossdressing astronauts? Transsexual president?

[barfra]

Hello my youngest son is 21 years old and he told me at the new year that he is GAY, he came out to me i was the last one to no in the family i love my son and i always will to the day that die this is not about him, this is about cumming out all the crossdressers that are in the closet should come out no one is going to kill you are they, they are not going hack of your arms ore legs, OK you may loose some friends but they are not you real friends are they your real friend would not walk away from you, i am going to come out to my family because i don't see what is so wrong with wearing women's clothing, i think all crossdressers in all parts of the world should get together we should make a stand and tell the rest of the world that wee are here and wee are here to stay, you can accept us and if you don't we don't care. I would love to see a crossdresser parade once a year in every city in the world just like there are Gay parade in other parts of the world, to all you lades out there what do you think + i would love to see all crossdressers with there partners out in a crossdressing parade . Frances

[crusadergirl]

I thought this was about cross dressers making progress not gays. You all keep saying its a gender not a sexual thing but your not getting to the point.
For the most part ppl do accept us. The media no one cares about what they say its mostly entertainment. Don't worry about labels and live your lives.

[Ibuki_Warpetal]

It's not really about just crossdressers or gays, that's kinda self-centered. It's about breaking taboo and challenging the status quo.

This is what we do.
This is what gays do.
This is what a lot of other semi-related people-types do.

This is what people have a problem with.

This is what needs to change.

[Melinda G]

Actually we have made progress. It's no longer against the law. I've been stopped a couple times while dressed, and nothing was said, and I wasn't asked to step out of the car. I can remember a time when it was illegal.

Part of the problem is in our own minds. Gays strut around in public, and don't seem to care who knows they are gay, while many of us, are afraid to step foot out of the house. This board is filled with posts from people who are afraid to step out of the house, for fear of being seen. To be fair, most gays don't have wives to worry about, and their familys probably know about them. But only when we quit worrying about what others think, and just go out, dressed as we want to, will we make any true progress. And for most of us, there will always be that fear of being perceived as gay.

[Satrana]

We will never make progress until we sort out ourselves first, until we clear away all the myths and misconceptions which we carry inside our heads. It is our lack of belief in ourselves that holds back progress. Nobody will take us seriously if we lack the self-confidence to stand our ground and demand our rights.

So when the time comes when a new generation of CDs grow up without shame and guilt, without confusion about their gender and sexuality, and without believing that they are in any way different from anyone else then, and only then, will CDs break out of our self-imposed exile.

[Fiona K]

It's not really about just crossdressers or gays, that's kinda self-centered. It's about breaking taboo and challenging the status quo.

This is what we do.
This is what gays do.
This is what a lot of other semi-related people-types do.

This is what people have a problem with.

This is what needs to change.

Absolutely, gender/ sexuality are irrelevant, we have shared experiences and many of the same attitudes are the ones we need to change.

[cemab4y]

I don't know. Maybe people are just fed up with "victims". Everybody wants to be thought of as a victim. Personally, I have nothing against gays/lesbians, they should be congratulated for the progress that has been made, and is being made.