This is the point of my post exactly. Though I find femininity attractive just as much as masculine, it isn't that way with everyone and if I, someone who has never even for a moment in my life considered myself straight, could understand this concept, how can so many miss the point?Originally Posted by Becca
All I'm trying to do, is open minds, on both sides. For GGs and for CDers.
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[SIZE="3"]"We're all born naked. Everything we wear is drag," said Boy George
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I think that's where you've made the mistake in your post. There is nothing amazing about heterosexual CDs making statements like "I'd like to find a GG and live like lesbians".
It's a common fantasy. (Not for me because, obviously, I'd like to dress as Nixon and be spanked by a rubber clad nurse, but that aside...)
You are expressing an annoyance that is not clearly expressed.
Your annoyance about, whatever it is, is not what you wrote about.
Your annoyance appears to be about one post I haven't read by one person who is disappointed that his SO doesn't have lesbian tendencies.
DD I see where you're coming from and you make a good point. Just please be aware that many of us straight CDers don't think like that. I'll throw this out that we are so closeted about our CDing because we think mainly about what GGs will think about it and how it will turn them off. If it suddenly became true that a majority of GGs were into CDers than you would see sales of dresses and makeup shoot up overnight. I don't think you're correct in stating we "instantly presume" a GG would want to live a lesbian lifestyle with us. We know in most cases that's not true and I really think that's where a majority of problems with our CD identity comes from.
Just a guess here, but in cases where people get married and then the CDer comes out years later it could be simply a matter of thinking that the woman they love is more important than wearing some panties or whatever and not wanting to lose them. Thus making the choice of marraige over CDing. Of course the CD urge never does go away and causes problems later. Never having been married that was always one of my concerns about the future of possible marriages I could have had. And plenty of GGs have told me straight out (not regarding me since I didn't tell them, but in general) that the one thing they could never deal with is a guy who dressed like a girl. Trust me, we know the reality.
And out of respect for lesbians, I have to acknowledge that we may say things like the Eddie Izzard line "I'm a Lesbian born in a man's body" once in a while, but I think it's a quick way to say we're attracted to women and CD. Are we really lesbians? No, of course not. And we don't really know how they feel.
Well DD, I'm sure you already know this but, many men find the idea of sex with another man revolting but they find sex between 2 women a big turn-on. So to fantasize being one of those two women is not all that far off from that.
For many of the men that I know, women are basicly objects of sexual desire first and human beings second, and since their primary motivation in life is sexual in nature, it might be hard for them to understand that many women are NOT attracted to other women. Hell, most men haven't a clue about how and what women think, and a lot of them don't much care either, as long as they get what they want.
There's nothing wrong with having a fantasy, I have lots of them, but just expecting someone else to partake in that fantasy without even caring if the other person is interested and willing, there's where the trouble starts.
"I see your true colors shining through, your true colors, and that's why I love you,
so don't be afraid to let them show, your true colors, true colors are beautiful, like a rainbow"
"Without change,something sleeps deep inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken!"[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's a lazy, selfish, ignorant mentality that some guys have, and some percentage of CD's are in this category- the same CD's who though wearing a dress or skirt will sit legs spread wide "macho-style", who don't wash their hands when using the restroom...
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It's a lazy, selfish, ignorant mentality that some guys have, and some percentage of CD's are in this category- the same CD's who though wearing a dress or skirt will sit legs spread wide "macho-style", who don't wash their hands when using the restroom...
Which bit of the "on topic" bit is that then?
DD
I understood. I was just trying to be funny. I'm not THAT serious!
Actually, I'm not referring to specific posts at all though I have read a few of them making general statements like this. I'm referring to discussions I've had with CDers and GGs. See, the problem is, some CDers make some GGs feel that their sexual attractions are of little importance and it makes CDing seem even more of a sexual nature than it really is for the most part. I started this in hopes making some much needed clarifications on both parts. Some GGs see CDing as this huge purely sexual fantasy that implicates them as a mere "pawn" if you will. And some CDers seem to help promote that stereotype. I'd like to see it gone. I'd like to see you all taken for the individual you are. But it doesn't help when one groups sexual orientation is constantly mentioned when there is no need and the other groups sexual orientation isn't even considered.
I know you gurls don't. I know that the precentage this is in reference to is rather small. But that is the point of this as well. I know many of you are truly struggling with these issues and to see them blown to bits because of the impression imposed on some GGs is truly unfair. I merely wish to address that its quite the double standard to expect someone to be attracted to something just because you are.
The fantasy is fine, but to refer to another human being like a mere object in that fantasy isn't. Everyone talks about CDing becoming publicly acceptable and I agree it should be. But that is going to be difficult when some individuals mention the other female in their relationship like she has no input or when GGs talk about having to force themselves to fain attraction to their partners when they are in fem mode.
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[SIZE="3"]"We're all born naked. Everything we wear is drag," said Boy George
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Don't you think its being quite the hypocrite to state that you are "oh-so hetero" and "wouldn't dream of engaging in any homosexual" act but then want to sleep with a woman as a woman?
I think the 'wouldn't dream...' part is important; the implication being, that it wrong and that the woman would think it was wrong too. But getting dressed up and mincing about is fine?
I'm bisexual and am attracted to both feminine and masculine. But I fully understand most people don't feel the same way.
Me too.
Sophia
I like Helen Boyd's answer - that she is a Betty sexual. I love my wife (who happens to be a female). Good, bad, or indifferent she it the object of my sexual desires regardless of what she wears (thank goodness she seems to feel the same way about me).
I believe u r making 2 mistakes;
1. Confusing fantasies with realty. In my lesbian fantasies, I'm 26 y/o and have no male parts!
2. Most of the CDs here r males. Males r generally considered to be pigs. What do they say about puting lipstick on a pig? Still a pig, isn't it?
That's rediculous Julie! How that can that be an exciting fantasy? Now, if the rubber nurse is wearing a Henry Kissinger mask, that's another matter entirely!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
Well in my lesbian fantasy... hey! Wait a minute! I'm not posting that on here! LOL! Its not the fantasy that bothers me, its the inability for some people to understand another's point of view. Its statements that imply all women are somehow "OK" with being with someone feminine, where that obviously isn't the case. Its about how hot Julie York would look in a rubber suit. Its about me playing the nurse because I'd look damn cute in the outfit. Its about respecting another's personal boundaries and presenting that to the general public if its what you really feel is truthful about you. Its about a lot of its abouts.
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[SIZE="3"]"We're all born naked. Everything we wear is drag," said Boy George
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I'm, on the whole, minus the a few 'sexual kinks', a straight male.
That is to say I prefer woman, and I have never considered having sex with another male (but I have kissed one, but it was a dare and I did win a £10 bet and it was like kissing sandpaper!)
When me and my SO have make love, play sexual games or what ever, its a male to female, I'm the male she is the female even if I'm dressed I'm still male and still consider myself male. If she dom I'm sub or vice aversa, I still see myself as male.
Male lesbain fantasties are not grounded in the real world. They are a 'prefect' fantasty trying to be imposed on a imprefect reality.
Some on this forum say they like being treated as a woman, me personally, I want to be treated as an equal and an Indivivdual who wishs to wear female garments, and not to mock or degraded when i do.
At the end of the day I'm still a bloke in a skirt and always will be
End of rant. No offence meant and thank you.
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Sub note to my rant;
In my family there is a long line of strong woman, British working class stock. Therefore I was brought up proper, respect woman and never hit one. People always underestimate the working class woman.
I have as a result always treat all my female partners as equals (even my @#&$* of an ex-wife).
Treat others as you wish to be treated is my motto.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Life is to short so enjoy it to the full
WARNING:Any institutions or individuals using this site or any of its associated sites for studies , projects or any other reasons You DO NOT have permission to use any of my profile or pictures in any form or forum both current and future. If you have or do, it will be considered a violation of my privacy and will be subject to legal ramifications.
Today is a good day to Dress!
I get your point about, the "abouts". And U can play the rubber nurse. And even leave off the Henry Kissinger mask, too!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
i must be in the minority here but sex while dressed has never turned me on.naked it is how i like to become one with my partner and pray at the altar of feminity.
where has all the glamour gone?
marlene dietrich is my idol
I do have a lesbian relationship with my wife but her relationship with me is strictly heterosexual.
Like someone once said, 'I think what most people may never understand is that it takes a stronger person to truly be themselves than to simply conform to a society's perception of their "roles"'.
I have never had any homosexual feelings whatsoever but when my wife and I reverse role play, I find her sexy as a male. To me this is all about how you view sexuality and how liberated you are. Those who believe in the natural order of things will inhibit themselves.
I think the actual numbers of members here who don't know this you could count on one hand. There is a lot of fantasy talk and wishful thinking on this forum, don't be fooled into believing this is what CDs actually think.What does surprise me is when a CDer expresses shock that a straight woman who doesn't find femininity attractive would not want to have sex with the CDer in fem mode.
Then to me this is all about GG's perception of CDing and believing their fears are being validated when they read the constant stream of fantasy talk from CDers.Some GGs see CDing as this huge purely sexual fantasy that implicates them as a mere "pawn" if you will.
I have one more point to add. Surveys of young girls show a surprising number want to experiment with lesbian love. Many surveys indicate numbers over 50%. I don't think this means anything more than wishful thinking that lesbian love is better and more fulfilling. After a few years these same girls if surveyed again will be 90% straight heterosexual.
The desire to explore new ideas, to talk about fantasies should never be considered to be anything more than that. I think GGs are reading more into this than is actually the case especially if they already fear this issue.
Last edited by Satrana; 05-02-2008 at 05:26 AM.
That is the best answer yet! LOL!
Bingo! Its been expressed in the pasted and several GGs on here feel that some posts only reinforce that belief. I merely wanted to bring this to the attention of the majority and see how they felt. I don't feel the few speak for the whole but we all know how human beings can get....
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[SIZE="3"]"We're all born naked. Everything we wear is drag," said Boy George
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The fear of GGs then, maybe is not so much centered around the physical appearance of their SO dressed up (although that hardly helps) but the psychology of their personal relationship.
So a GG can be anxious that while making love for example, she wants to know that her SO is viewing this as a heterosexual experience and that he loves her and desires her, as a heterosexual man. Instead she is thinking OMG! is he thinking to himself that he is a woman as he makes love to me? Is he thinking that when I respond to him it is because I see him as a woman? Does he think I am excited because of lesbian fantasies he thinks I have?
I can see how a GG may feel that their SO is on such a big escapism fantasy trip that he loses sight of the difference between fantasy and reality and thus loses sight that the relationship is a heterosexual one. She needs to know her SO sees the relationship the same way she does and values her for being the woman in the relationship.
So wonderfully and perfectly put! Thank you!
Any other GGs want to extrapolate on this?
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[SIZE="3"]"We're all born naked. Everything we wear is drag," said Boy George
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BINGO! I'm a D-sexual. I can appreciate the beauty of another man (or woman), but I have no desire to touch that beauty. I like what I married, sans any clothing
We have found that to be true as well....from both sides of the dynamic. Which makes perfect sense to me. How can someone wanting to present, be considered female be comfortable with male performance? Full femme increases his amorous feelings (I suspect from being more relaxed) but the actual deed is incongruent.
True many, many times.
And for those that poo-poo this point, I would like to point out that in almost every relationship where CDing came out after the hetero relationship was established, intimacy suffers. Most times it is the CD withdrawing attentions. I see time and time again wives complaining that their husband no longer seems interested and goes as far as impotency. The fantasy overrides and kills the reality in many cases, at least for a time. It's a very real phase and agonizing. Now I'm not saying it's ALL the CD's fault ALL the time...I've seen wives withhold intimacy to punish or control the CDing...but the majority of wives are eager to continue intimacy as it is concrete confirmation that their guy is still in love with them first.
re-read her original post. I responded to the comments she made about a certain attitude. THAT is the "on topic bit."
[SIZE="3"]Gender is a state of mind[/SIZE]
LGBTQ PRIDE
As of Oct. 5th, go here to see my pics:http://www.flickr.com/people/fab_karen/
A Yankee Doodle T-Girl
proud of my President
This is the way I've always viewed my relationship with my wife. I've also said more than a few times that I could be full time, but my wife isn't a lesbian.
DD thanks for starting this thread; it has been informative and interesting.
Dana Ryan
Ok, so here we are with the genetics of males, and we adore women. After all, we are doing all we can to BE them! As if that's not complicated enough, those of us with SOs who help or at least accept our compulsion, SOs who we loved to begin with when they thought we were ONLY male, have become even more important to us (if that was possible!). So here we are, dressed as the objects of our desires, changing our voices, changing our body movements, even changing our thought processes to match the gender we wish to present, and here is the woman of our dreams, helping us! Right at that moment, is it any wonder that the emotional surge is maybe a little less than controllable? We all know just how emotional this whole process is to begin with (plus and minus) and adding a loving and supportive SO to this mix could very well be, temporarily, overwhelming.
I'm a bit luckier in that my wife made it clear from the start that she has no interest in women in any way. I see that as a tiny tiny tradeoff for her love and support when in any gender, and the most marvelous helper, guide, and supporter when dressed.
I can understand the fantasies...the emotions run so high!
tina
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