Are we as CDs targets for harm?

[Julogden]

I live in Illinois too, and if I go out Crossdressing, it's either for Halloween, or the Gay Pride Parade, can't really do that on the West Side where I live, you'll definitely be beaten to a pulp.

The West side of Chicago would qualify as a wrong place for going out while crossdressed then. If you know you'd get beat to a pulp there, don't go out dressed there.

I'm not saying that there aren't places where we'd be in danger, I'm saying don't go out dressed in places like that, gun or no gun. You have plenty of other places around Chicago where you can go out dressed in safety. You also have support organizations with activites in safe places, so you have safe options even if you live in a neighborhood where its unsafe to go out dressed. You may have to leave your neighborhood in drab and get dressed somewhere else, but where there's a will, there's a way.

If we go where the hazards are minimized, we should be as safe as anyone else.

Carol

[morgan pure]

To carry a gun in New York City or New Jersey means a year in jail. We wouldn't think of it here. Once on 14th St. I asked a working girl if the neighborhood was safe, she pointed to a man down the end of the block. She said, "Don't you worry, honey, my husband has a 9 millimeter and he take care of us."
Mace is very effective.

[Jennifer Giovannetta]

As long as the firearm is legal, and you have a permit to carry, there is nothing wrong with that. But remember that there are repercussions if you fire that weapon at another human being. Even if the shooting is deemed justified by your local Prosecutor. The only reason for you to fire that weapon at someone is to save your life or someone else's. I have always been a gun advocate as long as the weapon is legal, and the person who owns the firearm is responsible and understands gun safety.
But I have to add that I do not feel the need to carry a firearm when dressed. I do not go out often, but still feel that it is not needed. My good judgement, and avoiding potentialially dangerous situations is generally enough. I like to think of how women would handle themselves in the world. Although there are a few ladies who carry, some of them do not.
Just be careful!

[battybattybats]

OK, so by being careful when where and how we go out we can improve our personal safety. And for the pro gun/taser/mace folk they can carry where legal.

But so long as transphobia is allowed to foster and remain in society we will all still suffer from a higher chance if being victims of assault and murder just for being transgendered.

So we've covered ways to make ourselves personally safer pretty exhaustively.

But what can we do to make us safer as a whole?

What can we do to cut down the violence and hatred of our trans brothers and sisters?

How can we protect all transgender people from violence?

[Fiona K]

But so long as transphobia is allowed to foster and remain in society we will all still suffer from a higher chance if being victims of assault and murder just for being transgendered.

So we've covered ways to make ourselves personally safer pretty exhaustively.

But what can we do to make us safer as a whole?

What can we do to cut down the violence and hatred of our trans brothers and sisters?

How can we protect all transgender people from violence?

Isn't this the correct response to the thread question? Not how to react when attacked but to ensure society is changing such that the attacks don't happen?




I hope our US cousins can please stop beating up on those of us from countries where the thought of even handling a gun is simply anathema to most of the population. There are weapons in the hands of bad guys here but the majority of the population from whichever side of the political spectrum don't believe that we'd be better off with everyone carrying a pistol. It certainly didn't help in Northern Ireland in the bad old days.

I can't fathom the need to own assault rifles at all? You can't hunt with an AK47 or M16 can you? Not if you don't want to have your venison pre-minced anyway...... There is another advantage to assault weapons being illegal, if the cops see someone carrying one they don't have to figure out if the person's a bad guy or not.
He is, end of story. If he lifts it to aim, he gets dropped where he stands.



Anyway, a good friend of mine says "never wear an outfit you can't fight in"!

[MsJanessa]

I own some handguns but don't usually carry them---target practice only--I do carry pepper spray and the occasional whip--lol---after all I wouldn't want to break a nail or mess My makeup in a fist fight.

[LovelyRita]

Fiona, as Americans we are not "beating up" others as you say so much as defending ourselves from being called "gun tot'n Rednecks"
I have own many, many guns over the years and including an AK-47 which makes a pretty decent brush gun when deer hunting, much lighter and shorter than my Browning 300 mag with scope. One shot per trigger pull like any other gun. I have carried concealed for many years as well. Never have pulled my gun out it on several occasions it gave me the security to help a stranger out at nite broke down on the side of the road. If not for a gun in my waste band of my jeans I might not have felt safe enough to pull over and help these people with their car trouble at 3 a.m.

[linnea]

i worry about my safety sometimes, but i don't carry a gun.

[Samantha Thomson]

i agree w you tamarra but here in the usa sad but true to manny haters who would try to hurt anybody not just us just because they have nothing better to do would i carry a gun if when i went out alone yes i own one and have a permit but i dont i go w a group of us girls 7-8 so any haters would just move on but it a shame what are county is coming to



samantha

[battybattybats]

Ok, ok.

The whole gun culture divide between the USA and the UK and Australia is significant to people on both sides of the arguments on both sides of the oceans.

But come on. Isn't it about time it gets dropped out of the subject?

It doesn't matter for those countries where gun carrying is illegal.

And no amount of self defence training or advanced weaponry can render anyone completely safe so why don't we address the rest of the issue?

So, can we leave the weaponry discussion alone for a little while and discuss the issue from the view that some can't carry them and some wont and they too all need to be safer.

How can we improve the safety of everyone?
That is the important question, guns or no guns!

[Chantellexxx]

I live in Australia so our gun laws are tough. I tend not to go to busy public places when dressed however I often walk alone at night "enfemme". Being "noticed" by others does not concern me, I dress for my own satisfaction & peace of mind. When I do go walking or swimming { I live near a beautiful river} I always have my dogs. I train dogs as a job, my two Belgian Malinois are fully attack trained & have saved my little pantie covered bum more than once,lol. I have found no matter how "tough" a group of men think they are, no one wants to mess with the snapping jaws of an attack dog! So nobody bothers Chantelle with Euro & Faydrah by her side!

[donnalee]

Okay, time for a reality check.
There are NO safe places, only SAFER ones; disaster can still strike anywhere, and criminals are mobile.
"Gun control" laws only affect the law abiding; they do not affect criminals by definition.
"Gun violence" is at best a misnomer and at worst a myth; guns are inanimate objects and cannot be violent.
I have been shooting for 35 years. Initially, aquiring a firearm was prompted by a break-in at our home while both I and my SO were present; I was in the basement working on my car and did not know what was going on until I went upstairs to find my SO shaking. Someone had come in through the window and was in the process of stealing a small TV from our living room. My SO (who weighs about 100lbs) had come into the room without her glasses and thought the intruder was me; asked what I was doing and then realised there was a stranger in the house. With incredible presense of mind, she offerered to let the guy out and he left quietly.
After this I took a long and hard look at the ways to protect me and mine and a firearm was by far the best option.This requires much practice and training, plus a great deal of studying the laws and realities af firearm use.
Make no mistake, this IS my martial art. The others are impractical for a number of reasons, although I'm reasonably handy with a knife. I would much prefer the bad guys don't get close enough to me to do any damage.
"There are no dangerous weapons, just dangerous people" - Robert Heinlein

[cd_britney_426]

The world is never going to be a perfect place nor a place with total safety. Trans people can end up in dangerous situations or victims of crime just as anyone else but the question here is to prevent trans people from being victimized solely due to the fact that they are transgender. I've always believed in "think globally, act locally." There are two main ways to minimize the amount of hate crimes against transgendered people. In order to benefit the group, each individual has to contribute. The first method is education. It is the responsibility of every trans person and ally to make it well known to the general public when there has been a hate crime against us. By widely publicizing horrible crimes, it can bring awareness to the public that this is a serious issue. The public needs to be educated that trans people are normal and people should receive at least the most basic education in trans issues. If schools can cover various ethnic and cultural groups in social studies classes, a brief coverage of transgendered people can be included. Most people don't know the difference between a crossdresser, drag queen, and transsexual although these fit under the TG umbrella. The less this issue is swept under the rug and the more it is treated as normal, the less violence there will be. American culture has a serious gender problem in my opinion to begin with. The way the culture expects men and women to behave and the way masculinity and femininity are portrayed and promoted in pop culture is extremely unhealthy and as long as the public continues to eat it up, there will be hostile attitudes against TGs because we definitely go against those norms by far.

The second method to prevent hate crimes involves your own personal demeanor. It is sad but true that people do stereotype and they do expect you to represent the entire group. If they will perceive the entire group based on your actions then please behave! A lot of t-girls I come across are not good people to be around. There are plently of t-girls who are prostitutes, repetitive criminals, and delinquents who never pay their bills, hold a job, or do anything reasonably productive with their lives. Do not let that be you. When dealing with the ignorant public whether dressed in drab or enfemme, be the "better man" or "better woman." Do not look for fights or arguments but try to be an example to the ignorant. I have to say that I have been around plenty of t-girls in public places who act trashy in terms of how they dress, talk, and otherwise conduct themselves. Again, do not let that be you. There is another way to prevent another hate crime and this is still "bundled" in the second method. As long as you are not a victim, that is one less victim. Take it a step further and educate your t-girl friends and as long as you and your friends are not victims, there are that many fewer victims in society.

You have the ability to not be a victim. Whether dressed in drab or enfemme, you owe it to yourself and the rest of the trans community to use street smarts and encourage your t-girl friends to do the same. That may or may not include weapons but it will include the basics of self-defense such as do not put yourself in dangerous situations when not necessary, be aware of your surroundings, avoid unnecessary confrontations, and if given an option of fighting or walking away, be a mature adult and walk away. I have witnessed many fights involving trans people where the trans person may not have started it but had the option of ending it yet chose to aggrevate it instead. That puts not only their life in danger but now it puts my life in danger because I have to deal with it. Take personal responsibility for yourself and the people around you. Be a true friend which means that you may have to warn another trans friend that you do not approve of her behavior because it is dangerous and irresponsible and puts YOU in danger as well.

Didn't mean to rattle on but the best you can do is take responsibility for yourself and those around you and then educate as many people as reasonably possible. Fate is not in your hands but when given a choice, choose the better option. While nobody EVER deserves to be victimized simply for being trans, we can at least take actions that minimize that possibility of happening to us. Many if not most victims of hate crimes fell into to some degree a combination of the following: intoxicated, late at night, bad neighborhood, associating with the wrong crowd, poor street smarts, and engaging in illegal practices themselves. Again, no excuse to be victimized but I would rather have a trans friend of mine not do something stupid and be alive than to do something stupid and end up in the newspaper. Then it is too late for a debate. I look forward to hearing other comments on this. Britney

[kay_jessica]

i personaly carry a gun in my purse.......

...no perp is going to do me harm....

What is it with you Americans wanting to carry guns all the time. OK its enshrined in your constitution but hey, its the 21st Century not the wild west any more. OK being a CD may attract attention but only if you do it wrong. If you are carrying a gun whilst out dressed you are going to be in a heightened state of tension already and are more likely to over react to all kinds of situations so when that person you perceive to be a perp, seems to make what you perceive to be aggressive moves your reaction will be to blow his head off. Nice! Remind me next time I go to the States not to approach any one for help as I might get my head blown of because it happened to be a CDer in a heighten state of tension and she thought I was a perp.

Then, I've been to the US a few times and I did not see any gangs of outlaws or rampant tribes of renegade Indians bearing down on me. Even in California! Is there not enough incentive for you lot to turn them in to hair clips after the senseless slaughters of the past few years. True we get gun crimes here in the UK and else where in Europe, but because it is illegal to carry the pesky things there is a lot less pro-rata than your precious civilized country.

I have yet to hear a good logically argued reason for an ordinary person to carry a concealed weapon. No one so far has come remotely close to convincing me that it is necessary.

Kay

[Ashley Lynn Swift]

Isn't that the answer to everything in the USA though?

I'm thankful it isn't allowed here in the UK, people walking around with guns, who knows when it might accidentally go off and kill someone... innocent by-stander... there are better ways to protect yourself... carrying a gun imho (and it is my opinion) is just too risky.

amen, Tamara.
personally i don't like gun's and don't own one, of course that could have something to do with getting shot in the head with a pelt gun when i was 17, but i don't know, personally I'd never carry a gun while em femme if I owned one, but when I first start driving a truck i used to carry a flare gun, but back then i was mainly driving in the worst parts of new york, maimi, and Las Angelas at the time, spent many nights parked on the side on the road in compton waiting to deliver the next morning, and I'd be damn if i wasn't going to give any potental highjackers a reason to think twice next time, while a gun might put them on the ground temperary, or in the ground, a flare gun that's going to give them a constant reminder of their stupidity, thankfully i never had to use it. but when en femme i'll just still to good old fasion mace, or a tazor.

[Ashley Lynn Swift]

I think there should be a mandatory intelligence test as a prerequisite to buying a gun. That might eliminate 99% of the population from getting one.

Sheesh!

Emily you are entitled to voice your opinion on this subject but to make a comment such as this one is rude and inconsiderate. You have insulted every gun owner and every potential gun owner on this site. You most certainly are a person who needs to learn some manners and how to express yourself in a way that is not offensive to others. You owe everyone on this site an apology for making such an insulting remark. I am in disbelief that the moderators of this forum have not deleted your totally inappropriate statement. I expect to see that apology from you.[/QUOTE]

you know if your going to take offense in Emily's commit I would hope that You also took offense in Amber 07 commits about the differnence in the US and the UK, Me I'm proud to be An American and yes I'm all for the 2nd admendment, and i found Amber o7's commit about the UK very offensive, but I can see some truth in Emily's statement about an IQ test, yes I don't doubt that the percentage wouldn't be that high probably closer to 30%. But just think maybe Vanilla Ice would have had a longer career if he had to of had an IQ test before he got his gun and went to the store with it. some people really have absolutely no business own a gun less alone carrying it. In closing if your going to demand an apology from Emily you should also DEMAND ON FROM Amber 07. everybody's entitled to their opion. and maybe you should demand an apology from yourselve for being so hard on Emily.

[battybattybats]

Lemme try again.

Folks. There are people on this forum from a variety of countries with a variety of laws and yet transphobic violence is a problem in probably every single one of them!

Now, those of you who approve of carrying guns need to consider the problems that 1. your opponent may be a quicker draw than you so dealing with other ways of reducing the danger are still useful to you anyway 2. many other girls in your own country may not chose to carry a gun and 3. that doesn't mean a hill of beans to people in the majority of countries where civilians can't carry concealed firearms or other weapons legally!

Now, those of you who oppose carrying firearms need to consider the problems that 1. it's legal in the USA and some folk are going to carry them no matter what you say and 2. it doesn't mean a hill of beans to people in the majority of countrues where civilians can't carry concealed firearms or other weapons legally!

So to try and make myself thoroughly clear there is not one logical point to carrying on the guns vs no guns debate in this discussion! Changing the relative laws and culture either in the USA or the rest of the developed world is a comparable struggle to eleiminating transphobia and anti-trans discrimination. Both sides are wasting everyones time in an off-topic discussion that will make not one single transperson safer from transphobic violence!

So please, please, pretty please with suger on top, please drop the gun control/liberty debate entirely and address the rest of the issue!
Either side winning the argument conclusively and finally will not help at all and is as unlikely as my being elected world dictator by a unanimous vote of every single human and penguin on the planet before midnight tonight.

Those who can carry guns can carry them but the threat of transphobic violence remains! So gun toting gals and guys instead of arguing in favour of guns deal with what else needs to be done to deal with transphobic violence and non gun toting gals and guys instead of arguing against guns deal with what else needs to be done to deal with transphobic violence.

Carrying guns is an option available to only a small minority of TG folk on this planet and not everyone able to do so choses to do so. Therefore it is irrelevant to the subject for the vast majority of TG people including many in the USA too.

Those who utterly cannot help themselves and need to debate the gun control issue might want to consider a seperate thread on the subject in the lounge section perhaps?

But people are dying every year from transphobic violence in countries where guns can and cant be carried so lets actually deal with the real issues shall we?

Now unless the next person who wants to post about guns can find a massive fatal flaw in every point in that logic can we get to some genuinely usefull discussion on the subject please?

[michelle64]

for my american sisters,,the heller case is due to be announced by the SCOTUS elfs on thursday at 10:00am(ish)...word leaking out is good news for gun owners...as i sit here in my mismatched attire i have come to realize that thank the good lord for our bill of rights...the overseas crowd is entitled to their beliefs and they have some beautiful country over there..however i would not want to live there..there are some great replies here for personal safety..and that was my intention in starting this thread..stay safe

[wishonastar]

I knew a black belt that got into fights about every week. The other guys ALWAYS started it.

You want trouble you will find it.

But sometimes it does come to you.

So just avoid the potential problem spots or confrontations. I know for some that is cowardly, like my friend would feel, but I have never been a fight or had to defend myself because I can talk my way out or run fast or just do not push buttons!

[SIZE="1"]
I have an air taser which in California you can carry concealed. I have stun guns in cars. I do not what to kill someone (I have talked to police that have, some never get over it), but do keep pistols at home. We live in a rural area and have been told it could take over one hour for the sheriff to show. So we are on our own!
[/SIZE]

[donnalee]

I knew a black belt that got into fights about every week. The other guys ALWAYS started it.

You want trouble you will find it.

But sometimes it does come to you.

So just avoid the potential problem spots or confrontations. I know for some that is cowardly, like my friend would feel, but I have never been a fight or had to defend myself because I can talk my way out or run fast or just do not push buttons!


[SIZE=1]I have an air taser which in California you can carry concealed. I have stun guns in cars. I do not what to kill someone (I have talked to police that have, some never get over it), but do keep pistols at home. We live in a rural area and have been told it could take over one hour for the sheriff to show. So we are on our own![/SIZE]

You must understand that firearm use is an act of last resort, after the suggestions that have been made as to avoiding trouble have been used and found wanting, and the only way to save your ass is to down your opponent and make sure he can't get back up. I would not take human life if it could possibly be avoided without putting me or mine in harm's way. I would feel terrible if I had to do it; but make no mistake; if push comes to shove, I WOULD do it to proctect myself and my SO.

[Fab Karen]

What is it with you Americans wanting to carry guns all the time. OK its enshrined in your constitution but hey, its the 21st Century not the wild west any more.



I have yet to hear a good logically argued reason for an ordinary person to carry a concealed weapon. No one so far has come remotely close to convincing me that it is necessary.

Kay

Not all Americans are gun-crazy. This doesn't define us as a nation. & you're right, it isn't necessary. Going around with a gun you're in the mindset of expecting violence. If only the 2nd Amend. people were as concerned about the other Amendments being taken from us, our country might be in better shape.

[Nicki B]

So please, please, pretty please with suger on top, please drop the gun control/liberty debate entirely and address the rest of the issue!
Either side winning the argument conclusively and finally will not help at all and is as unlikely as my being elected world dictator by a unanimous vote of every single human and penguin on the planet before midnight tonight.

I don't think some people are able to hear your argument, Batty..

Those who utterly cannot help themselves and need to debate the gun control issue might want to consider a seperate thread on the subject in the lounge section perhaps?

[Emily Anderson]

I don't think some people are able to hear your argument, Batty..

It's not Batty's thread, so no need to take it off at a tangent. The original question was about whether people carry a gun for self-protection, and the ensuing debate has been fascinating, to say the least.

[Shadow]

Yeah, let's all get a gun. That will solve the world's problems. If you don't like it, shoot it.

Why does anyone think that they might be the only one with a gun? The more people buy guns, the more likely we'll all end up shooting each other.

I think there should be a mandatory intelligence test as a prerequisite to buying a gun. That might eliminate 99% of the population from getting one.

Sheesh!

Could you Please explain why Washington, with the strictest anti gun laws has the highest rate of crime. And Texas with the highest rate of gun owners has a much lower crime rate??? There is a town in Texas (can't remember it's name) Where the law states that everyone over the age of 21 and no criminal record HAS to carry a loaded firearm over the caliber of 22 at all times. Thier 7 11 has never been robbed, and there hasn't been rape in 37 years

[Emily Anderson]

I dunno Shadow. You seem to be the authority, so why don't you explain it to everyone while we sit back and enjoy the show?