Equal Rights?

[kerrianna]

No woman I know achieves any kind of emotional fulfillment from wearing pants. They're just clothes of convenience. Crossdressing is alot of things, but I've never heard it described as convenient.

Actually, Tree, I often find what I choose to dress in more convenient, for me anyway. I think it works both ways.

Personally I think the empowerment of women in our society is important because I believe the system is still weighted patriarchal, and it's the patriarchy that really hates CDing, because we basically undermine the core belief system - we side and sympathize with the oppressed instead of the oppressors. And that's the worst thing in a hierarchy like that.

It's about power in the end.
CDers aren't being good team players for the League of Domineering Men. And that makes us dangerous, because we may just pull out that card that's holding the whole house of cards up and the whole thing comes tumbling down.

By fighting for everyone's right to equality we fight for ours.

I think there are lots of people here who do understand that the women's movement wasn't about women wanting to emulate men, although it would include the right for someone to do that if she wished... just as we need to fight for the right for someone to emulate a woman if they wished... but this is all part of a bigger effort to acheive true equality and freedom for everyone.

[Kate Simmons]

Crossdressing by definition to me seems to be an individual "toucy/feely" sort of thing and "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" sort of thing. Most of the time acceptance has to be on an individual basis as different people are at different levels in regard to it. Put simply, riding on the coattails of those seeking rights for the TG/TS community won't work because of all the different goals envisioned. In essense, most want to be accepted for who they are but are unable or unwilling(due to personal circumstances) to take part in any kind of movement. That is why to really be accepted with this, it requies some sort of personal effort for one to "win their spurs" on their own more or less.

[CaptLex]

I'm sympathetic to gay rights, but I began to lose that sympathy when they want to ram there life style down my throat and demand that I show approval for them. If I feel that way when I'm on their side, think what the general public must feel.

I for one don't want your or anyone else's sympathy. All I want is the right to see two guys or two women holding hands in a public park without anyone giving us a second look (for starters) - same as any two heterosexuals have the right to do. It's about equal rights, not special treatment. If you don't want me "ramming my lifestyle" anywhere, then don't subject me to the same.

The bottom line is CD's and other alternative life stylers should be happy if society can benignly tolerate and accept them and should not push it by expecting society to to pat them on the back and proclaim that this is a proper way to live when the majority probably have other opinions.

Why the hell not?

And for those who are unaware - the idea that women HAVE to wear skirts has been mortally wounded here in the states for many decades, but it's not totally dead yet. When I entered the workforce in the early 80's, women HAD to wear skirts to an interview and were required to wear them at the office too. That wasn't that long ago. Also, there's a certain fancy hotel in the midwest (I won't name it) that won't allow women to dine in their restaurant in the evening unless they're wearing skirts.

So the idea is not totally a thing of the past . . . hell, there are some right here on this forum who think women shouldn't wear pants and consider any woman that does a crossdresser.

[Fab Karen]

However, I question whether wearing skirts or pants, regardless of birth gender, is really an issue of social importance.

OK, how about we go back to our society requiring that all women wear skirts or dresses. & maybe they should also be required to wear make-up when in public. Then we'll see if you find it of importance.

[charlie]

Before even talking about equal rights, we must feel that what we are doing is OK ourselves. We purge our stocks because we feel that we are doing a wrong thing and want to stop. We hide what we do because society does not accept it. We (even though we a heterosexuals for the most part) go off to gay bars because those are the only places that will openly accept us. In order to gain rights and acceptance as a group, we as a group must not be ashamed of ourselves as a starting point.

[sterling12]

My good friend Babs who has been more or less "out" for a long time gave me the best explanation that I've heard.

Quite simply, MOST CD's want their cake and eat it too. It's a benefit to be able to put on a frock in the bedroom, when feeling "frisky," but not having any of The Femme Self impinge on any of The Guy Life. So they can safely hide away The Gifted Side and reap all the benefits that go with being male.

It is always the way of any movement. The many are willing to have a few dedicated person's go out and do all the "heavy lifting;" be risk takers and get a movement started. Then when things look a lot safer, all these other people jump on board and claim the rewards.

Many, many, women got fed up with the inequalities and started to really start pushing for their rights in The 60s. There had been a lot of pioneers who came before them, the suffragettes, the planned parenthood people, the women in the labor movement to name just a few, those women took a lot of the jailings, public disgrace, and the abuse.

Right now, we aren't anywhere near the level of a sudden growth to "The Movement." It's going to take a lot more individuals finally getting "fed up" and motivated enough to take some action. I hope it's soon....I would like to see it in my lifetime!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[battybattybats]

Why the hell not?

Indeed!

Anyone who has a problem seeing any two adults doing anything ethical in public has issues. If those issues are socially accepted that doesn't make them any less wrong.

People discriminate against the elderly, the disabled etc all the time. What Old people, disabled people, gay people etc shouldn't kiss in public the way straight able young folk do every day?

Give me one rational reason why!

There aren't any! People just have disgusting biases. They are the ones who should be judged. Anyone who justifies a double-standard is at fault. It used to be women being unchaperoned, interracial romance etc now it's gay people kissing.

Society has respected disgusting and repulsive things in the past, like slavery and wife beating. Saying societies views need to be respected is saying that in the past a man with his wife on a leash wearing a 'scolds bridle' in her mouth for back talking him too much should have been respected.

Saying gay people shouldn't be too public is like saying black people or women shouldn't be too public.

It's a false argument!

All human rights and civil rights violations are insults to and offences to all humanity! Everyone has an obligation to defend every other humans freedoms. Otherwise we have no justification for having our own!

Gay folk, I support your right to flaunt your nature in public! I've kissed in public countless times and I see no reason you shouldn't have that same freedom!

[KarenCDFL]

Nothing gets me more ticked off then hearing about Gay Rights, Womens' Rights, Racial Rights and oh yeah Crossdressers/Gender Rights.

You see that is the problem, we should not be fighting for the rights of a label but for the rights of a human being.

Once our world of humans is truly equal in civil rights, then none of the labels would matter anymore.

I don't care about gay people getting married. Or non-gay people for that matter.

I just care that two adult human beings who love and honor each other have thought through all the questions and that they want to spend the rest of their lives together and want to do it under the some sort of legality that will give the the same benefits under whatever country or state they live in or job they have.

And gender, color, race or physical attributes should should not change that

I really can't see what the big issue is except of course religionists who wave their book of choice in your face and spout what some prejudiced group of so-called human beings wrote thousands of years ago.

My wife and myself got caught up in some of this just before we married.

I was born a jew and my wife a catholic. I had been an athiest for many years and had not stepped foot in a synagoge for as long as I could remember.

So here is the catholic girl who loves me and she gets me to start going back to Friday night services. She did not care where she got her god from as long as she got it. And she was fine with my beliefs or lack thereof.

Well we asked the Rabbi to perform our ceremony and they refused because my wife was not going to convert.

Now a Rabbi is more than just a religious figure. A Rabbi can legally sign a marriage license in the state they are licensed. I figure it is the same for Priests, Ministers.

But it was ok to keep coming to Friday night services and to keep donating money. There is a lot more to this story but I won't bore any of you with it.

I get so sick and tired of the groups of people demeaning the human race because they think their god is better than your god. Specially since there is no concrete proof of an an omnipotent deity at all.

I have no clue what the answer is and I am sure it will not change much in my lifetime but in my heart I hope one day true equality becomes a universal truth.

Hell, if they can do it on Star Trek, It can be done here in the real world.

This is the longest and most prevoking post I have posted here yet.

Please take these ideas from where they come, from the heart.

Peace

Whew ... Glad thats done.

[vivianann]

Nothing gets me more ticked off then hearing about Gay Rights, Womens' Rights, Racial Rights and oh yeah Crossdressers/Gender Rights.

You see that is the problem, we should not be fighting for the rights of a label but for the rights of a human being.

I agree Karen.

[Tree GG]

OK, how about we go back to our society requiring that all women wear skirts or dresses. & maybe they should also be required to wear make-up when in public. Then we'll see if you find it of importance.

See Cap't Lex's post.

...You see that is the problem, we should not be fighting for the rights of a label but for the rights of a human being.....

Exactly the point!

[battybattybats]

Nothing gets me more ticked off then hearing about Gay Rights, Womens' Rights, Racial Rights and oh yeah Crossdressers/Gender Rights.

You see that is the problem, we should not be fighting for the rights of a label but for the rights of a human being.

I agree, but people are discriminated against, marginalised etc according to their labels. Those are all catagories of human rights and certainly we should all support all of them as we should all support universal equality. Of course there are bigots in all groups, people who just want equality for them but not for those they hate. Members of racial minorities who oppose gay rights, some feminists who oppose transgender rights etc etc.

Still acknowledging a disadvantaged group and the bias against them on account of a label is important, as too often they are marginalised groups, their grievences silenced or unreported, rarely given their fair share of acknowledgement and public expression. The trick is that the emphasis of why it's wrong, that it's against human rights, needs to be ever-present.

[Fab Karen]

See Cap't Lex's post.

see: analogy