Fundamental Right Wingers

[Vivian Best]

I read a post to a thread a few minutes ago and the post hinted that fundamentalist and right wingers were those that presented a wall for us CDrs to go out dressed. I took a little (very little I might add) offense to the statement because I'm a fundamentalist and steer heavily to the right myself! I know I'm not stopping anyone from going out dressed.

I think, instead of saying one or two groups are stopping us from going out dressed, that society in general looks down their noses at us. They have a dim view of us because most of them are only exposed to the segment of CDing that dresses outrageously flamboyant calling overt attention to themselves and the perverted acts of some that make headline news.

Those of us that are more on the conservative side need to try to make our style known and what we really are and over time change society's opinion of us and CDing in general. Also, I think part of our problem is ourselves and our own fear of going out dressed. A famous quote by Winston Churchill comes to my mind and that is, "All we have to fear is fear itself." I think fear is what stops most of us more than certain groups. What's your thoughts?

[jaina]

When you ally yourself with a group, you are responsible for the actions of that group.

[CharleneT]

Hey Vivian,

You did not say what type of fundamentalist you are. Jewish or Christian or Muslim or Pagan or ? I agree with you in general, although, the Christian religious right in the USA would likely take a very dim view of CD's and definitely of TS's. In fact, I believe there are some who think that such folks should be hospitalized at a minimum. They also believe that of gays etc... that level of intollerence is a big problem for many of us. It isn't that they look down at us, they are actively trying to ride the world of us. It is hard not to be threatened by that.

I do not think it is the flamboyent dress of some that creates the "wall" that we all experience at some point. Nor do I believe that if we all dressed conservatively but openly, that attitudes would change because of the conservative dress styles. I think they would change because of people contacting CD's in general.

I think it is the lack of tollerence in this society for those of different physical looks that is the basic problem. My father was in a wheel chair and we faced a fair bit of prejudice because people didn't want to see that. Now that was in the 1960-70's and I think attitudes with respect to that have changed a lot now. There are still plenty of things that American's are prejudiced against though. The conservative movement in the US is strong and wants to turn the clock back on a lot of things here. Or at least that is how it appears to me. So they do seem "against us" and appear to be a blockade.

[jennifer41356]

it seems to me the ones who are always quoting the passage in the old testament about men should wear things pertaining to them and women should wear what pertains to them comes from the religious right here in the states....they tend to be the ones who try and tell others how to live ..ie gay folks and gay marriage, so it is not hard to make the statement that most of the flak comes from fundamenatlist....

[Karren H]

I'm a registered Independent... But politacally and fiscally I'm very conservative... I dress in a dark blue business suit and tie every day for work... I'm agnostic.. But I get along with everyone... And I like to dress like a woman...

Personally I don't see the conection between crossdressing and politics and I'm baffled by those that do!

[Natalia]

Back in 'the day' when the bible said men should dress like men, most men wore flowing robes. About the closest thing we have to 'traditional male garments' from biblical times is the way the Saudis dress.

Wouldn't it be delicious if all the right wing fundies were expected to wear this every day?

[vivianann]

vivian Best I really appreciate your post,and I agree with you, as far as society not accepting us cders, I find that peaple who does not like crossdressers come from all walks of life, I Know some of the peaple that hated the fact that I crossdress are staunch liberals, I know alot of religeous peaple, and some of them do not understand, but most of them seem to accept me as I am, I am not saying all religeous peaple are not prejudice, because some are, just like some non religeous are prejudice. We need to be careful what we say because there are peaple that are religeous here that can be hurt by what is said here. and I also find that most crossdressers are conservative, and believe me I know a lot of crossdressers. Thanks Vivian best for your thoughts. Vivianann

[BeckyZ]

The generalizations expressed by some in this thread are stunning. I know biggots of all persuasions (religous, political, race, economic, gender, etc.). Lack of willpower to think are spread across all boundaries. Let's see-who shall we hate today?

[Sweet Jane]

Generally I find generalisations intolerable (hahahahahahaha)...however I think Vivian makes two distinct points....

Firstly that some of us and the way they act and present themselves in public (should we overcome our irrational fears and get that far) are why society "looks down" their collective noses at us.....I have to agree there is some validity in this. It does embarrass me to think that people who don't know me, will have judged me to have attained, with honours, the basest standard as displayed by this "overt" group, when nothing would be further from the truth.

Secondly, that the fundamentalist right wing supports transgender issues equally with any other group. I'm sorry, but although I am not from the US, my observations and discussions with US transgendered people, suggest that as a group they don't. Individuals within the group may be as liberal as the next person, but as a combined entity, the fundamentalist right is very conservative. I am not that sure that the US left is that liberal either, so maybe over there, you have to be satisfied with "enlightened enclaves"???? I know some cities are very supportive, but they do appear to be cities where the right wing is a minority!!

[StephanieH]

[SIZE="3"]I think Austin Powers' dad said it best in the third flick when he said "There are two things I can't stand - people who are intolerant of other people's culture, and the damned Dutch." Loved that line.

As for me, I'm actually a Constitution Party member, left the Repubs because they went waaaay to liberal for me. I'm very active with my church, I'm pro-gun, pro-drill the crap out of everywhere until oil's down to $10 a barrel, and I don't believe in "global warming" or that man can (or is) hurting the overall environment of the planet. Yes, we can pollute a river or a lake, but it's pure vanity to think insignificant beings such as we could make any serious impact on the planet - and history backs this up. I trust history much more than I trust science.

Still, I like to wear skirts, love garter belts, high heels, and just about all that good stuff. Generalizations, as others have said, don't work with this particular "hobby" or whatever we want to call it. I don't judge anybody for being who they want to be, I do get aggitated over dumb political decisions, but I'm not hung up on Old Testament theology and don't see dressing as anything "sinful" or wrong. Adultery - yes, CD'ing, no.

Take care all and God bless! [/SIZE]

[sterling12]

OK, let's try and respond just a bit and try and keep things civil. First Item, that quote doesn't come from Winston Churchill. "The Only thing we have to fear is.....fear itself!" it's from the first inauguration speech of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and he was addressing the country's justifiable fears about The Great Depression. Since he was a notorious liberal, you might not want to quote him.

Whenever TG-Friendly Legislation is passed, a lot of Right-Wing Religious Groups are always at The Forefront, trying to get that legislation obliterated. They make outrageous claims, that would be libelous if they didn't hide behind The First Amendment.

I think the antipathy has built up over the couple of decades. I don't see any reason for Transpeople not to feel justifiable fear, prejudice, and hatred from CERTAIN members of The Religious Right.

Tell you what....next time a piece of legislation gets passed, let's see what "Focus On The Family," and similar groups have to say about that legislation. I'll bet it won't be anything positive, and may actually encourage others to attack TG Victims. How could you imagine that TG Folk ought to feel positive about The Religious Right? ....An awful lot of people within that group don't act very tolerant or "Christian" toward us.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Rikkicn]

Our culture does not support, encourage or tolerate gender transgressions of any kind no matter what clothing they may wearing.
To most, on the outside, we are all the same. They can not see the difference we all do.

[joselyn318]

[SIZE="3"]
As for me, I'm actually a Constitution Party member, left the Repubs because they went waaaay to liberal for me. I'm very active with my church, I'm pro-gun, pro-drill the crap out of everywhere until oil's down to $10 a barrel, and I don't believe in "global warming" or that man can (or is) hurting the overall environment of the planet. Yes, we can pollute a river or a lake, but it's pure vanity to think insignificant beings such as we could make any serious impact on the planet - and history backs this up. I trust history much more than I trust science.

Still, I like to wear skirts, love garter belts, high heels, and just about all that good stuff. Generalizations, as others have said, don't work with this particular "hobby" or whatever we want to call it. I don't judge anybody for being who they want to be, I do get aggitated over dumb political decisions, but I'm not hung up on Old Testament theology and don't see dressing as anything "sinful" or wrong. Adultery - yes, CD'ing, no.

Take care all and God bless! [/SIZE]

Ok, as a scientist (biochemist) I am astounding that with the line " trust history much more than I trust science." Last time I checked the academic fields of history and science pretty much share the same exact qualities of peer reviewed logical recording of past events. A historian records the past events of human actions, while a scientist such as myself records the past events of natural phenomenon. Second, your statement about the human impact on the earth is blatantly false based upon recent empirical evidence.

Back on topic...I was raised in an episcopalian household where we taught to form our own views and beliefs through the use of logic and reason. From my own past experiences and education in science, theology, and human history I have come to a belief that there may or may not be a God. Secondly, I personally that a literal view of the Bible is completely incorrect. Historical research has shown that both the Old and New testament were originally past down from generation to generation verbally. If anyone has ever played telephone as a child, then you would know how easy it is for a particular religious or political leader to put their own spin on the stories. Secondly, the very nature of the translation of the Bible from Aramaic to latin to germanic english to old english begs the question of how accurate and precise each translation was to the original verbal recordings. Thus you can see from skepticism in the literal interpretation of the Bible, why I have a trouble taking a literal view of old testament passages. Personally, I believe the Old Testament should be taken as a guide to an ethical life and of the power of God if he/she/it exists. As you can see i pretty much disregard whenever an evangelical Christian starts proselytizing.

[AmandaM]

Whenever TG-Friendly Legislation is passed, a lot of Right-Wing Religious Groups are always at The Forefront, trying to get that legislation obliterated. They make outrageous claims, that would be libelous if they didn't hide behind The First Amendment.

I think the antipathy has built up over the couple of decades. I don't see any reason for Transpeople not to feel justifiable fear, prejudice, and hatred from CERTAIN members of The Religious Right.

You can say the same for liberal groups. I don't see any reason for Xians not to feel justifiable fear, prejudice, and hatred from CERTAIN members of The Liberal Left.

-signed, Fundamental Right Winger

[Donna Michelle]

I'm not hung up on Old Testament theology and don't see dressing as anything "sinful" or wrong. Adultery - yes, CD'ing, no.

I totally agree. When I posted the quotes from the Bible, I copied them from my friend's page. I would never have found them myself. I was replying to someone else's post that said the Bible did NOT mention crossdressing.

Certain people don't like crossdressing. Even the text from the Bible was taken out of context. Dressing as the opposite sex to deceive (lie) to someone (for the act of sex, for example) is wrong, according to the Bible. When talking about politics, you CANNOT use the Bible as an excuse to disallow certain rights or privileges. Not all people follow the same religion. You can believe what you want, but you can't use YOUR religion to enforce laws upon others.

I prefer not to comment on politics, though I think it is sad that some people think they can tell others who they can or cannot marry. Years ago, it was shocking to see people of a different skin color or religion to marry, but now that is acceptable. If we can get passed this gender bias, everyone could be happier. These people are living together and having sex anyway. Why can't they marry?

[Talon DeRojo]

A famous quote by Winston Churchill comes to my mind and that is, "All we have to fear is fear itself." - I think that this was actually said by FDR.

Too often people make generalizations - about CDers, liberals, conservatives, Blacks, Whites, Muslims, etc. - that do not apply or do much to further understanding.
Talon

[Fab Karen]

The people who overtook the republican party want to enact laws making us & our gay brothers & sisters criminals, as well as denying us civil rights. That they base their ideas on a book written thousands of years ago translated poorly & then throughout history has been rewritten to suit the whims of church leaders & kings goes against what our country's founding fathers believed in.
BTW, the ethical John McCain who is on his second marriage, after having dumped his first permanently disabled wife for a rich trophy bride 17 years his junior, is against gay as well as TG civil rights.

[Toni_Lynn]

What I'm about to say may seem all contradictory, but it all makes sense to me.

I am liberal, if not somewhat socialist in my political views. However, in my religious and moral views I am conservative, for example I am pro-life. As a Roman Catholic, I adhere to a code of morality and virtues impressed upon me by the good nuns and priests who educated me. My church and faith are the center of my life. In them I find not only love, but my ability to love.

Hmm -- so, here I am, a deeply religious person, yet I am a crossdresser.

So, the point is, not everyone who has strong religious beliefs is cut from the same cloth as as those who use religious intolerance to put us down.

However, what is it about us that causes them to heap scorn upon us. Well, when the public face of crossdressing is the likes of RuPaul and other drag queens, or the so-called Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence in San Francisco, how can we not expect the uninformed public to a) lump us all together, and b) hold us to ridicule. They don't represent what I'm about!

Just as above -- while the actions of some religious people or political conservative people cannot be the guide by which all are measured, so too it must also be said about all TG people aren't like the aforementioned examples.

Maybe what I'm saying is that education is the key. We need to make the public aware that we are normal people, we are left wing and right wing, we are every belief structure from atheist to fundamentalist, we are all education levels, we are all professions, we are husbands AND wives, and sisters and brothers.

Let me close with my take off on the Molson I AM beer ad from a few years back:

Hey, I'm not a weirdo or a sissy.

I don't prance around or have a limp wrist or talk with a lisp, and I'm not like like RuPaul, or Dustin Hoffman in Tootsie or Flip Wilson as Geraldine, although I'm certain they're really really nice.

I like to wear skirts, not pants.

I wear a bra and panties & not jockey shorts & and I button my shirts right over left, not left over right.

I can proudly pull my long hair into a poni-tail.

I believe that crossdressing does not make me any less of a person, diversity is better than prejudice, that being feminine and soft is a truly proud and noble thing, a girl can do anything a boy can, women are leaders, and that I am Toni with an I, NOT a Y .. an I!

I believe that as crossdressers we hold up the our part of the sky, deserve respect for who we are as people, and that being a crossdresser is what's best for me.

My name is Toni-Lynn, and I AM A CROSSRESSER!

Thank You!

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[Annesah]

I personally think Rush Limbaugh is a closet crossdresser with a posible TS crush on J. Edgar Hoover. Anyway; Relative significance of History and Science. Try 4.5 billion and 2000 years. We, as humans and late coming scientists, are new around here and still not quite in charge. Sigh! Get it biochemist? Annesah

[Alicia_lynn419]

Right wing, Reagan Conservative Libertarian here.... and I still wear a dress. In my experience I have had more negative reactions from the "peace loving" liberal left than I have from conservatives. You can be conservative without being a Bible thumper. I have friends who are both Liberals and Conservatives.... I have acceptance from both.

As for a political discussions on this board... I try to keep politics out of it.

[Joy Carter]

Christian and a Reagan Conservative here. I belive very much what I read in the Bible. But then I know there is much influence from men's laws in there as well. To me, clothing was made by man. It has no influence in how God looks at me, dressed as I choose to be. I know in my heart, he is concerned with my soul, and how I conduct my life.

[michelle64]

i cling to religion and guns....reagan type here all the way...yea its the right wingers causing you grief with being a CD...lmao....dude (dudett) youve been to one to many GLBT group meetings and warped your brain....ive been a CD for years and have never seen the good old days like we have now..ive never understood why somebodys happiness is dependent on policies in washington...you have problems..blame yourself..last time i checked your in complete control of your happiness...this whole topic of blaming somebody else for problems you have just rubs me the wrong way...

[Andine]

[SIZE=3]As for me, I'm actually a Constitution Party member, left the Repubs because they went waaaay to liberal for me. I'm very active with my church, I'm pro-gun, pro-drill the crap out of everywhere until oil's down to $10 a barrel, and I don't believe in "global warming" or that man can (or is) hurting the overall environment of the planet. Yes, we can pollute a river or a lake, but it's pure vanity to think insignificant beings such as we could make any serious impact on the planet - and history backs this up. I trust history much more than I trust science. [/SIZE]


Thats a lovely sentiment Randi, but If I may be so bold as to disagree with you ..... Please get your head out of the sand, and do some reading!
It must be awquard to live in a world where you don't understand what is happening!

As Joselyn is trying to explain ... there is a crisis hapening, and it is my belief that it has already gone beyond our ability to stop it. All we will be able to do will be to mitigate the effects a bit, if we are lucky and united.
If we are not united, we are in for a serious catastrophy at the very least! Few people understand what the thawing of the permafrost in the north heralds. The vedgetable matter contained in that frozen matter is now releasing unprecedented amounts of greenhouse gasses, and we will not be able to contain that. That huge problem is only one of the effects. Another is the sessation of the Gulf stream, due to the reduced salinity from the melting glaciers of Greenland, which is now in progress .... That current keeps Europe warm! .... As it stops flowing that part of the globe will get as cold as the corresponding latitude on the other side. Europe will change dramatically! In Australia the oposite is hapening ... We no longer get rain!
I would go so fat as to say that the churches of the world have contributed to our apathy about our effect, by selling us the idea that it is not our fault, and that the " Almighty " will either fix it, or is punishing us for our misdemeanours. If you pay the church some money they will intecede, and all will be well!

What a load of Manure!!
We need to open our minds to other posiilities and use our brains ... It is later than we think!

Have a nice day !!



Regards

[joselyn318]

I personally think Rush Limbaugh is a closet crossdresser with a posible TS crush on J. Edgar Hoover. Anyway; Relative significance of History and Science. Try 4.5 billion and 2000 years. We, as humans and late coming scientists, are new around here and still not quite in charge. Sigh! Get it biochemist? Annesah

I honestly believe the only reason we still cling to archaic notions of religion and mythology due to our species relative ignorance of mechanics of nature. Our understanding of quantum mechanics and general relativity are still at its infancy. It has only been just over 100 years since general relativity was theoretically proposed by Einstein. Quantum mechanics in its current form is approximately 60 years old. Even general physics is in its infancy as the first major research into the mechanics of natural phenomenon started with Copernicus and Newton during the 18th century. Future concepts such as quantum computing, membrane theory, and curled dimensions will elicit the true fabric of nature.

before you say I most be ignorant in theology and eastern religions, my minor was in theology and second major was in eastern religions (bachelors of arts) (primary bachelors in physics). My doctorate is in biochemistry.

[Brooke Smith]

Here's A thread I'm inclinded to jump all over,but I won't.

Surffice to say fundamentalists of any stripe have this need to proselytize.Well guess what kids,and i'm preaching to the choir here,we all have our own road to follow and we don't need any traffic cops.