Must be THAT hard!

[dann]

Holy smokes!
the last thing i wanted to do with one of my very few posts was create unrest!

A couple of things. First, I never once said i thought my wife was being selfish in doing what she did with her clothes. My whole point was how far denial had gone.I know at some point in time or another she WILL read anything I post here. She always does, infact she's a member under a name she would rather not tell me in order to have a place somewhat of her own for support. I have no fear in her reading that. This is no bombshell.

Second, those that see my statement as being selfish are absolutely right. In hind sight, I was being selfish. But please keep something in mind here.much like the rest of us, I have NO other place to air these feelings out when I have them. So this is my only outlet for getting set straight when I might need it. There are VERY few among us who havn't needed to be set straight on something or other. And next to NONE of us that hasn't had a selfish feeling spelled out right here on this forum.

i only read the first two pages of responses so far, I didn't really detect alot of people dragging my wife through the mud, but there were a couple that got the impression that she's a selfish such and such. this is not the case. Neither her or i are anymore selfish than anyone else. What we are is a couple of people in some serious need of communication.


To be called "the most selfish person on this forum" by an administrator is very disheartening. But then again, I don't need to be handled with kid gloves. if we want to pull punches like that around here (which I don't ever recall it being that way) so be it. I won't be back.
I look at you all as my friends. I've had a couple of occassions where I've told people here that I disagree with them, but never have I given them a smackdown for what I percieve as there misguided view.

In the end it isn't even about the clothes. At this stage in the game I really do get alot more out of buying my own.

Two years ago when I first came here I was a little more active, there was more continuity to my story so to speak. There's alot left out between now and then. Alot of her ups and downs with it havn't been aired. The fact of the matter is, within about a year and a half of coming out, things were moving to a more accepting situation. We had communication, we seemed to be working towards compromise. At one point she was ok with a small chest with my stuff in it being in our closet. At her strongest point, one time during a conversation about my cding, she even offered me to go into her closet and pick out a couple of things to keep for myself while she looked on.If they happened to be something she doesn't wear anymore they were mine to keep.I was flabbergasted, I was almost in tears. And her old cothes, according to her, were open game.That was early summer '06. The last couple of discussions regarding it were in November '07. Inwhich she no longer wanted to see or hear anything about it. I wasn't pushing it on her any harder, i wasn't forcing the topic. I was dressing 1 time every other month provided there was a time to do so inwhich I had the house to myself.This was per our agreement. But her ability to maintain a tolerence of it had obviously faded. I can't blame her for her feelings.Since then, we've been in limbo.

I still can't help but to think that there was at least a shred of malice in the way she did what she did with those clothes. I just wish we could even talk about it. We've gone from one side to the other. For a short time, i finally stopped hating myself for being a crossdresser. Now i find myself wondering why I have to be such a freak. Why do i have to have these feelings about wearing woman's clothes. I guess that's more what the statement was all about. My own struggles that I once let go of and accepted, and now feel dirty about again.

There's a line in one of my all time favorite songs that goes:

"Cold silence has and tendency to atrophy any sense of compassion"[/I]

that's what it's all about...i guess.

Anyways, thank you all for your input. All angles of it were very helpful. And please let's all try not to get in little tiffs back and forth when throwing our raw feelings out on the table. This computer screen is really all some of us have got here.

[deja true]

Well,we're glad you came back, dann. That took some guts. And thanks for your calm explanation of the circumstances surrounding your first post.

It's pretty obvious that the message (or some message) had to get through with all that hyper hormonal stuff being slung around. I'm truly sorry about that!

Some went a little overboard, I think, too. And it would have scared me enough not to come back maybe.

So dann, I surely hope your wife does read all this and it gives her a little push to re-open lines of communication with you. It sounds as if your trying, but we'll really not know until you (or she) can come back and tell us.

Good luck, dann, and dann's quiet wife. We really do wish you both the best, but you've got to take the initiative and talk to each other. Please?

[Tamara Croft]

To be called "the most selfish person on this forum" by an administrator is very disheartening. But then again, I don't need to be handled with kid gloves. if we want to pull punches like that around here (which I don't ever recall it being that way) so be it. I won't be back.

Excuse me, but I'm also a member and I found your post very selfish, you even admitted you were being selfish, but I'm the bad one for pointing it out. What I haven't read from you, is about members calling your wife a selfish so and so, which you can read back, I've quoted it many times in this thread, but you've yet to say anything to them, not even named them, but you put me right up there as being the bad one in the whole thread. I stood up for your wife after members of this forum were rude about her, I defended her, but still I'm the bad person. I'm so sick of having my administrator position pulled into threads all the time, having to defend myself here all the time, for saying something that was true, but hey, it's ok for others to call your wife names... and you say nothing about that, what kind of person does that make you?

I still can't help but to think that there was at least a shred of malice in the way she did what she did with those clothes.

Malice? seriously? They are just clothes, you seem to be having some kind of tantrum about the whole thing, are you an adult, or are you a child? Because to me, you seem to be behaving like a child who's had their toys taken away. They are her clothes, to do with as she see's fit and do you really think she's going to be giving you her clothes when she so obviously has real issues with your CD'ing? Can you really not see how this comes across?

What I post might be harsh, it might feel like I've just slapped you right in the face, but you obviously aren't thinking about how your wife is feeling and you're putting your CD'ing first, before her feelings. You've said it yourself, she is so far in denial about the whole thing, yet you think she should have given you her clothes... there is something seriously wrong with that. As harsh as that sounds, you tell me if that isn't the truth, tell me I'm lying...

[Donna Michelle]

But her ability to maintain a tolerence of it had obviously faded. I can't blame her for her feelings.Since then, we've been in limbo.

I still can't help but to think that there was at least a shred of malice in the way she did what she did with those clothes. I just wish we could even talk about it. We've gone from one side to the other.

She actually went from sharing her clothes and tolerating your femme side to totally ignoring that side and trying to make it go away. She can give you clothes or you can buy them. You will still wear them. She can't change who you are. You were born that way.

I wish she would talk to you about this. It seems like she tried and gave up. She just can't accept you. Does she really want to spend the rest of her life avoiding these issues? Or can you get therapy if talking to each other doesn't solve your problems?

Each of you need someone you can trust who cares about your feelings. I think your story bothers me, because a friend of mine has a wife who does her own thing while my friend does his own CD thing. They don't seem like they belong together. We don't know the whole story, but if the wife doesn't like "queers", why did she marry him? Why are they still together? Are they happy? Would they be happier apart?

These are tough questions to answer. If your wife is participating in this forum, it sounds like she gave things a try. Why did she hurt you on your birthday? Why won't she talk to you? If she isn't talking, does SHE have something to hide? Is she seeing another man who she thinks is a "better" man? Or does she just avoid issues? I see people who would put off until tomorrow what should have been done today.

Tell your wife to stop avoiding things, because you love her and miss her. You want to spend better quality time together instead of avoiding, arguing or getting the silent treatment. You were happy before she knew about your CDing. What changed? Her perception of you? You are the same person, only now she knows you wear prettier clothes sometimes.

This may sound crazy, but... did you try crying in front of her? Do you think she still cares about your feelings? Maybe she can have a good cry, too. And you can finally try to talk to each other. Maybe you can be a man and take her to dinner, then talk to her at home. Is she not getting enough time with the man she married?

I still don't understand how she could live with you this long, then change her mind. Unless she was faking tolerance and got tired of it. Or something else made her change her mind. If she would make friends with Dann instead of ignoring her, she could have a new best friend.

[Julie York]

That was a very good explanation Dann. It's a shame not everyone takes the time to read what you actually wrote or if they did read it, are incapable of understanding it.

A big shame.

[VirginiaX23]

Malice? seriously? They are just clothes, you seem to be having some kind of tantrum about the whole thing, are you an adult, or are you a child? Because to me, you seem to be behaving like a child who's had their toys taken away. They are her clothes, to do with as she see's fit and do you really think she's going to be giving you her clothes when she so obviously has real issues with your CD'ing? Can you really not see how this comes across?

Not really malice, Tamara, but maybe a little mean, even if subconsciously so. If you remember the original post, the incident with the clothes happened on Dann's birthday and, at least in Dann's telling, from Dann's perspective, the act, while her right and privilege, was not maybe timed at the best possible moment. You are absolutely right in your defense of Dann's wife, but Dann is going through a rough patch and perhaps you could recognize that his perspective of events comes from that place.

[maid phylis]

since i came out a number of years ago i stopped wearing anything of my wifes.first of all she is a few sizes larger than me so that ended that.about my dressing she told me that she didnt want to see me dressed so i agreed with that.as for clothing i sometimes take the dresses my daughters throw out when they tell me to take them to the salvation army.before i do that i go through the bags to see if any thing fits me and there usually is ,so i take those items and take them out and add them to my collection. now they all know that i dress so i just have to put them away for a while before i start to wear them. phylisanne

[GypsyKaren]

She gave HER clothes away, she didn't throw the baby out with the bath water, get over it already.

Karen Star4lene

[karencd23]

Dann,

Your question has provoked a lot of slagging, which is a great shame. You asked a simple question and I have a simple answer from someone who is in almost the same situation as yourself.
I absolutely understand your feelings seeing really nice clothes leaving the house and going to charity; it upsets me too. Of course, there is the simplistic response that they are your wife's clothes so it is up to her what she does with them, but it goes deeper than that. Your wife and mine found out late in their marriage that the man they married didn't have the clear male gender identity that they thought he had. This has to be a major shock to their feelings and their understanding of the marriage. Wanting to wear her own personal clothes adds another dimension to the hurt so why do that over a minor issue. Carry on buying your own clothes from charity shops or ebay as you already do.

[Sweet Jane]

That was a very good explanation Dann. It's a shame not everyone takes the time to read what you actually wrote or if they did read it, are incapable of understanding it.

A big shame.

Amen.

[sissystephanie]

I have read every post in this thread, many of them more then once. My conclusion, for what it worth, is that a lot of you ladies ought to really think about what you are saying BEFORE you submit the message!! And please, lay off Tamara!! She has as much right to express her views as anybody else, and just because she is an Administrator she should not be slammed for doing so. Frankly, I agree with a lot of what she said.

Judging from his followup message, Dann's original comments may have been misinterpreted. Dann, are you two getting along somewhat now? You did lie to her (by concealing your CD activities) for many years. How do you expect her to react to that? And, as has been stated by so many, her clothes are HERS, not hers and yours! If she wants to give them away, or throw them away, that is her choice. Not yours!

This whole thread clearly illustrates the point of always having open and honest communication in a marriage. And that means from the very first day!!

To be married to a man for several years, and then suddenly find out that he prefers to dress as a female has to be a great shock to any woman. She thought she married a man!! In every sense of the word. Now she finds out that is not the case!! Most likely she will wonder if the man is gay! When I told my dear late wife, before we were married, that was her first question! When I answered "No," her second question was did I go out in public as a woman and if the answer was no then why not? When I told he that I was terrible with makeup and fixing a wig, she just laughed and said she would take care of that! Boy, do I miss her!!

Ladies, please do not let this thread spoil what we have here! We should all be friends, and try to help each other!

Sissy/Stephanie

Lady on the outside, but man underneath!

[itstime]

Dann, you have to be the most selfish person I've ever known on this forum, to come out with such crap about your WIFE on here, just because she doesn't want you to wear her clothes, because she can't stand your cding... you pulling the 'oh woe is me' bullshit. I'm sorry, but that's what it is... bullshit... grow up already and buy you're own damn clothes.

Wow, so she's selfish in your eyes also? I can't believe what I'm reading, I really can't. So it's now her fault that she doesn't want THE MAN SHE MARRIED to wear HER clothes now? I'll remember that... must give all my stuff to cd's or I'm selfish.. ok noted...

This has to be the most self pitying, idiotic thread I've read here for a long time, with 2 selfish thrown into the mix of it... selfish indeed...

Tamara hit the nail on the head

[Fab Karen]

I agree with Tamara, his wife isn't selfish for doing what she wants with HER clothes. To ANY CD: Grow up & go buy your own clothes. Communication & trying to work out some sort of compromise is a separate issue.

[Satrana]

Dann

Your message seems to be all about the frustration you feel over the lack of progress on your wife's part to come to terms with your CDing. You want to move past this and come to a sensible arrangement and she is just not there yet.

The issue about the clothes is not really about the practicality of getting second hand clothes, rather it is the way in which she disposes of them which sends you a strong signal that she is still in no mind to accept this part of you. To you it seems a deliberate tactic since the two of you seem incapable of talking over such matters.

I would suggest that this is actually the first thing you guys need to sit down and resolve - the lack of communication means that both of you have pent up emotions that need to be released. You guys need to resolve the matter of communication and agree that your CDing cannot be swept under the carpet. She may never want to see you dressed or be involved in any way but she does need to acknowledge the topic should be open for discussion whenever either party has something to say and that you are still actively dressing.