I've been relatively open in relationships, now reconsidering

[MalibuJenny]

I'm in my mid-40's now and came to terms with my CDing about 10-15 years ago. The Internet was instrumental in realizing I was not alone and the resources out there helped to get my analytical little mind around all this. I also found a therapist that specialized in gender issues and that was hugely beneficial.

I'm also single, so have the luxury of gaining this understanding before getting married. I fully realize how hard it must be to be in the other situation... To finally understand and accept this part of yourself and then be faced with the specter of if and when you should break the news to your wife.

So, over the last decade or so I decided to be relatively open in my relationships, as I'm an open person in general and always felt like it was the right thing to do. Always felt a bit hypocritical talking at great depth and connecting emotionally while holding such a big thing back, especially since CDing is very much intertwined in my sexuality.

But guess what? That hasn't worked out very well at all. I usually have 'the conversation' when we start get get sexually intimate because it seems that is the time when my SO has the right to know. I know I'd feel that way if the situation was reversed.

The problem with telling someone before there is real commitment is that it's very easy for them to throw their hands up in the air, chat with a couple of friends (who all tell them to run away as fast as they can) and then proceed to do just that. After all, they really aren't totally committed and so why get in further with someone with such an unusual situation?

And what's interesting is that I always come at this from a very positive perspective. I've always thought that if you disclose something with your head down and from a place of shame, that it will be received as the same. So, even though I've been honest and forth-right and not all embarrassed, for the most part I get dumped over this issue.

I've never had anyone just stand up and declare it's over, but most my girlfriends have thought about it, talked with others and then decided they just weren't up for all this.

A couple then remained friends and even enjoyed my dressing from that perspective. They just don't want to be romantically involved with a crossdresser. At least, if they know this early on.


But it occurred to me that this is all too easy... That because there is no long-term commitment they can just move on to the next person and take their chances.

I know philosophically that I want to be open and honest but I also know that if I waited until after I was married that we'd be almost forced to work through this.

Of course, things could still end badly but at least we'd both be much more motivated to fight for our relationship.


I assure you this line of thinking is totally against how I usually see things and I always feel like honesty is the best policy. But how long do I stick to my sooner-rather-than-later approach when it continues to cause the end of my relationships?

Just thinking out loud here and would appreciate feedback.

Jen

[tracigirl_tv]

.... But how long do I stick to my sooner-rather-than-later approach when it continues to cause the end of my relationships?

Jen

Jenny, in this girl's opinion, the answer to your question is "forever."

I've been on both sides of the equation.....hiding it for years until I couldn't anymore and watching the relationship implode, and then being upfront from the start. Now, I was more fortunate than you in the latter case, met a woman who turned out to be understanding, encouraging and supportive. I hear the frustration in your post, but I have no doubt that you are taking the right tack in practicing "full disclosure."

Just my

Happiness to you.

*huggg*

Traci

[DonnaT]

Being open is still the right thing to do. Sure, relationships may end because you were open, but that is a whole lot better than being so in love and committed, and then having the relationship end after telling.

Believe me, you are doing yourself and her a favor. Fighting to prevent the relationship from ending is hard, and there's no guarantee that a year or two down the road, things wouldn't fall apart anyway. So there's a couple of years wasted. A couple of years during which the right person for you has gone by and you missed finding her.

[Sarah...]

Jenny, I think you should stick to your approach, its honest. I wish I'd be honest earlier than I did. You're a good example.

Hugs

Sarah...

[MalibuJenny]

I really appreciate the replies and support.

I want to underscore that I've always loved being a CD... I did hide it for a while but never had that much guilt or shame and have never, ever purged or vowed to stop.

And I even told my best male friend even though I knew he'd take it badly. Which he most certainly did. I just thought it was dishonest to withhold something so big when the two of us shared everything else.


But the question of when to tell in a romantic situation is still very tough. Certainly, before marriage is more than logical and even ethical but maybe I should wait until after engagement?

I really do want to be married and have children and this isn't happening for me and I'm trying to re-think my approach.

The irony is that I meet plenty of great women. I have a huge social circle and at the risk of being immodest, it's not hard for me to find quality women to date.

I just can't seem to get past this issue and sometimes I feel like *I* may be making too much of it, considering that it's a small part of who I am.

[CaptLex]

Jenny, have you tried meeting women that may frequent places where CDs hang out? Is there a local club that has a CD night, for example? Maybe another CD friend knows someone who can introduce you? There are women who like to date CDs, the question is where to find them in your area. Someone here may know.

[DonnaT]

I just can't seem to get past this issue and sometimes I feel like *I* may be making too much of it, considering that it's a small part of who I am.

A number of CDs have said the same thing, got married, and if discovered, lost either their spouses trust or love. Too many have lost their relationship with their children as well. So, not only does the woman they loved now dislike them, the kids they loved may also. Hard enough losing one person.

[sheerhot]

Jen,
First, it's not a small part of who you are.
Second, you are doing exactly the right thing in terms of disclosure.
You don't want to trap someone. The resentment they would have over your lack of candor would be major.
You will find an agreeable partner.

[MalibuJenny]

Lex, yes I've gone that route.

It's been fun but the truth is that CDing is a small part of who I am and what I want out of a relationship. So, using that as a filter means you start with a very small amount of people and greatly reduces the odds of connecting in many other ways, all of which are important to me.

I have no expectation that my SO would even participate in my CDing. I've had that experience and it's been nice, but the way I always put it to my girlfriends is that I just wanted them to know and that I'm not asking anything from them.

And frankly, because I've had several women share my CDing, I don't feel this huge pent-up need to unleash my dressing on a girlfriend/wife. I just need them to accept this part of me on some level, even if that just means they know I need to dress on my own sometimes.


And even though this thread is about me, I decided to start it because these issues are always such big ones for crossdressers. And because more and more of us are coming to terms *before* we enter a relationship, it appears this all may be more complex than initially thought.

[jenalex]

So, over the last decade or so I decided to be relatively open in my relationships, as I'm an open person in general and always felt like it was the right thing to do. Always felt a bit hypocritical talking at great depth and connecting emotionally while holding such a big thing back, especially since CDing is very much intertwined in my sexuality.

But guess what? That hasn't worked out very well at all. I usually have 'the conversation' when we start get get sexually intimate because it seems that is the time when my SO has the right to know. I know I'd feel that way if the situation was reversed.

The problem with telling someone before there is real commitment is that it's very easy for them to throw their hands up in the air, chat with a couple of friends (who all tell them to run away as fast as they can) and then proceed to do just that. After all, they really aren't totally committed and so why get in further with someone with such an unusual situation?

Yes indeed; while telling someone before there is real commitment is obviously the correct thing to do, it hasn't done much for any of my potential relationships.

The only way it seems to work is to be completely open, to make sure someone knows right at the start of showing interest ("you know about me, right?"), and before that is obviously much better still. But that basically means everyone knows, which isn't always a good idea.

Problems problems

[jennifer41356]

Jenny

I too came to that conclusion when I first started to explore my fem side.I realized it was a lot to ask of someone to accept if they didnt feel comfortable with the way i am , so i pretty much have decided it is better and more fun to be alone. I dont have to worry about the hassles. If someone accepts you in the beginning what will keep them from changing their minds once you are in a long term relationship.

I am glad i dont have to ask someone if it is ok to shave my legs, pierce my ears or when I can wear a skirt. I know I have given up a chance to experience a loving relationship with a woman, but like i said earlier, I dont want to have to put anyone thru that.

I know there are women out thier who seem to embrace their SO fem side, and I have read some of their wonderful posts, but I think that they are in the minority. I would think you would have a better chance with meeting an open minded gal on the west coast , that I would here in Dallas

But alas, i dont let it get me down. I enjoy this gift I have and cherish it so much. I think I was meant to a female, and that may be why I dont seem to meet many women
anway hang in there cutie

[linnea]

I'm in the situation where my SO doesn't know, but I wish that I had been open and honest about my CDing from the start. Now it is terrifying to think about what might happen if I reveal all. I carry a load of guilt and stress and remorse for not having told.
I think that you're taking the right approach: better disappointments now than later after a lot of water has flowed under the bridge.

Jenny, I think you should stick to your approach, its honest. I wish I'd be honest earlier than I did. You're a good example.

Hugs

Sarah...

[Emily Anderson]

Just to put another spin on things: It's also possible to meet a girl who is initially accepting, but changes her mind somewhere down the line (like after two years in my case). What do you do then? No need for an answer, but just to mention that it's also possible.

Having said that, I do believe that it is better to be up front, because CD'ing is not widely accepted and you certainly don't want to be in a position of having to hide it away for a while (maybe a long while), and then taking the "hit" later on.

[Kristen Marie]

I am not out fully to my wife and we share some fun times together, so I may not give the best advice. But...

Several of the ladies I have met over the years....my electrolysist, massage therapist, my makeover ladies, and a few females I know from different sites who I have now met and chatted with face to face, understand that Kristen is only a part of me and not all of me. They know me as a guy and as Kristen, and realize that she is an important part of who I am. They seemed to get it.

If I could have the ideal arrangment, it sure would be nice if I had met someone who shared both those views of me....but alas, that is not the case.

[gennee]

[SIZE="3"]I'm fortunate that I have a spouse and son who accept my CDing. It took a while for my wife but my son has always been cool with my dressing. His g/f has a cousin who cross dresses and is gay.

I was married 25 years when I discovered that I was CD/TG. Now things are better than ever.

Gennee[/SIZE]

[Nadia-Maria]

I'm also single, so have the luxury of gaining this understanding before getting married. I fully realize how hard it must be to be in the other situation...

(...)
The problem with telling someone before there is real commitment is that it's very easy for them to throw their hands up in the air, chat with a couple of friends (who all tell them to run away as fast as they can) and then proceed to do just that. After all, they really aren't totally committed and so why get in further with someone with such an unusual situation?

Jenny, your testimony is very interesting, because it sounds real life.

I use to read here about marvelous stories with very accepting GG's and honesty being always the best policy from the very beginning. Of course I feel happy for all CD's involved in such stories, however I doubt it is that common on real life. They are the happy few, I mean, and certainly not the standard CDer.

When I dated my current SO, 5 yrs ago, I was not yet aware to be a TGirl. I thought I had crossdressed lifelong only for not being able to date a very sexy girl. Hence, since my new SO was the most sexy girl I could dream of, I was sure I would stop quickly CDing.

Of course I did not stop CDing, and after 4 yrs I understood - thanks to this forum - I'm a TGirl for my whole life ; so that I came out last year to my SO with the result she accepts I crossdress in her absence.

The truth is she would not have wanted to live with me, if she had knew from the beginning I was a CDer. Now my crossdressing is no big deal for her, however I don't feel myself fully accepted by her.

I am convinced that if you needn't participation of your future wife in your CDing, a good policy is to delay your coming out after being both committed (although obviously not yet married).

If you need full cooperation of your future wife, the only (?) choice is to come out at the very beginning.

Kisses

Nadia

[deja true]

A good point about the attempt to meet understanding and accepting women for us has been made in a few earlier threads and has not come up here yet...

Taking the example of so many of the new young ones who've joined us recently, it seems that their luck with finding or holding on to an SO after the big reveal, often comes about because the young ladies are often from particular fields of interest...

Women particularly involved with the arts seem to be much more accepting of us on the whole than others. Painters, musicians, theatre people, dancers, ...

They already live in a world of forward thinking and liberal tastes and trends. You may have more luck in companions with backgrounds in the arts.

Real Estate, finance, development, law, big business....even for women in these fields, the thinking is more analytical, as it is for men, and I'm thinking the analytical mindset is the one that weighs the odds of success from the very beginning and would rationally turn down an invitation to get involved with someone with a "curious" background.

Look for those who care about sentiment and fantasy and dreams, not the ones whose careers revolve around the 'bottom line'. The bottom line is, that life with a cross dresser is gonna be too weird for the average lady who usually wears a suit.

[Laura_Stephens]

I wish I would have told my wife before we married even if it meant that I would have been alone for the rest of my life.

[charlie]

Hello Jenny!
Your post is a good one, and has received several on target answers. My journey being a CD has told me that most women and the society in general is certainly less then accepting of CDing and generally sees us as perverts and slightly mentally unbalanced. The society as a whole will grudgingly accept someone being gay, but cross dressing ...no! Women who date want to have their Prince Charming. A man who opens doors for them, is prosperous and is manly in every way. Does being a CD right off the bat fit into this paradigm? If your up and coming SO did not know this for a few months would it be deceitful? I think not. Wait until you know your date well and think she might handle it before dropping the neutron bomb right off the bat.

[MalibuJenny]

I think one the biggest issues is that as a guy, there is nothing that would hint of this side of me. I appear to be quite conservative (although I don't see myself that way, perception is reality), I'm athletic, masculine, and a businessman.

So, I attract those that like those qualities... And then the CDing thing is so completely different from that. Which, ironically, is probably why I love it so much.

I don't tend to attract the artsy, free-spirited types because they aren't typically into guys like me.

Just another one of the many CDing paradoxes!

[jill s]

I always think that if I had it to do over I would have been up front with my wife , instead of waiting 23 years. But when I asked her if she would have married me if she knew before the look on her face and long pause before answering told me she wouldn't have. Rock&hard place type of deal. Good luck how ever it goes with the next one.

[Holly]

Jenny, FWIW, I think you are absolutely right in doing what you are doing. There is no way, that you can't go to sleep at night with a clear conscience. Sorry if that is little comfort. On the positive side, however, when you do find the "one," you will be assured that she knows the whole you, warts and all and is willing to make a go of it. I would think the worry of what she will do if she finds out would be more stress than I would like to take on. **NOTE** Maybe it would be worth the effort to seek out some of the artsy ladies and give it a test run. .

[Fab Karen]

I think one the biggest issues is that as a guy, there is nothing that would hint of this side of me. I appear to be quite conservative (although I don't see myself that way, perception is reality), I'm athletic, masculine, and a businessman.

So, I attract those that like those qualities...

You also said that you meet "plenty of quality women to date"
What is your definition of that? What do the women who rejected you for being a CD have in common? Look at avoiding those common qualities.

Also if you appear quite conservative, then you'll attract women interested in someone conservative. Dress conservative for doing business if that's necessary, & then dress otherwise for your social life, in a way that shows you're not a conservative person. Get the advice of non-conservative friends on this.

[MalibuJenny]

You also said that you meet "plenty of quality women to date"
What is your definition of that?

By 'quality' I just meant women that I'm attracted to and like for various reasons.

The only reason I said that is because the most common complaint of the single person is they don't meet enough people they want to go out with. But that's certainly not the case with me.

And I've dated all types. I don't really see a common quality.


Every time I meet someone new I always try and picture how they would handle the CD news. That in itself is a bit of a filter and I tend to stay away from the up-tight, not only for this particular reason but because I don't like that quality in general.


I did want to say that many on this forum make the comment about how they wished they would have come to terms with their gender issues before getting married. I think a big part of what I'm saying is that even when you do, things are still very difficult in terms of relationships.

[donnalee]

Jenny-
"it's not hard for me to find quality women to date."
Perhaps they don't posses the right qualities. I think you're doing the right thing, but you must understand it may be a VERY long search.