I give up!

[DemonicDaughter]

I've been debating posting this for a few days now but think perhaps it should be addressed. I'm well aware that many may not care and others will continue anyway but I have to try.

See, numerous times I've been asked if I have any GG friends that are as interested in Tgurls as I am. And indeed I did. But as I sent them to these forums they seemed to have lost interest. I had no idea why and assumed that when presented with the idea in reality, that it suddenly didn't appeal to them. Well, an email from the last person I sent here rather clarified things for me.

Seems she stumbled across a few threads that she took rather offensively. They talked about how CDers were more feminine than GGs, put GGs down for how they dress in today's society, or made statements that implied GGs aren't feminine or womanly enough and that the CDers are.

According to her email, she felt that there was too much competition and she had no desire to date anyone that couldn't accept her for who she was. She made several references regarding specific posts and stated that for a group of people who want to be accepted for who they really are, these posts reflected quite poorly on the whole. When I tried to argue that it isn't all CDers who felt that way, she made a hell of point in that no one corrected them except moderators. She stated that had she found one post in those threads that told the opposite view, not just a slight slap on the wrists, she would have considered staying. But she didn't and doesn't want to bother now.

How on earth are we suppose to bring others to accept and understand CDing even on a general level when these sort of posts not only continue to go up, but so few say a word to stop! Even if you DO feel that way, don't you realize how hurtful it sounds to someone else? How would you feel being told you would never pass? Aren't feminine enough? Aren't dressing how you are expected to? Don't you realize how conceited and snobbish you sound when you claim that a GG would be jealous of a good looking CD? How can you not realize how such statements affect how you are viewed as a person?

I don't live in a fantasy world in which everyone is perfectly PC or where no one disagrees with how other's live, dress or act. But I don't understand how or why, a group of people that wish the world didn't look down on them or discriminated against them, could do that very same thing to the gender they are emulating!

For those of you who don't do this and/or stand up to it, I applaud you for showing others the same respect you are requesting for yourself.

[Wendy me]

DD i hear what your saying when person's here say and do things like that it only proves that they themselfes... truly don't have a clue as what they are saying .... being feminine they are not being ... kinda more like the "guy" thing to be one up on someone else........

when it's acceptance and understanding is what a group of persons is looking for .... respect goes a long way....

food for thought could any one in that that thread in question just pushed away someone that just might have been a SO that would have shared and accepted you as a cross dresser?????............


good point DD.............

[michelle64]

all i can say is i agree...the stuff some post is laughable..i have a great and wonderful GG...i certainly do not begrudge her dress....she is beautiful..the reason most do not have wonderful GG's in their life is their own fault..glad you had the courage to posts..ive thought about it as well and finally just let it go

[MalibuJenny]

Seems she stumbled across a few threads that she took rather offensively. They talked about how CDers were more feminine than GGs, put GGs down for how they dress in today's society, or made statements that implied GGs aren't feminine or womanly enough and that the CDers are.

Crossdressers + Internet = Fantasies Run Amok


I've tried to inject some reality in several threads but that doesn't get much traction. And I can understand that to a certain extent, as this is one of the few places CDers can come and just have fun with this part of themselves.

[TxKimberly]

Hard to argue with your post! Usualy when I see a post along the lines of what you describe, I head for cover 'cause I know the stuffs about to hit the fan!

[Emily Anderson]

Being inquisitive by nature, I'm prone to ask a lot of questions and poke around for thought-provoking responses, so I'm kind of guessing that one or more of the statements were initiated by my polls/questions.

I certainly hope that is not the case, but please feel free to ask to delete any threads/posts that contained inapproriate responses.

[Sherlyn]

Hi DD...I see this alot to and it always a certain group ..it makes me just want to scream out WTF is wrong with you..they come here and put a bad taste in alot mouths ..I've delt with some of them and personally.. because of the type of forum we are I think they should just be sent packing.Don't give up we need and enjoy you here...lets all try and fix this

[Sophia KT]

Don't! ...give up I mean.

What you have recounted sounds really bad and I'm sorry that people who are, or are at least willing to be, openminded are put off by nonsense; I honestly can't believe that a CDer said they are more fem. than a woman. I think this broaches the question you once asked, 'what does fem. mean to you' [something like that anyway]. I think fem. means something different to CDers but here is an overlap [it's too late for me to thing about tha now though :-)

I know I have said that some women don't capitalize on their natural femininity [whether or no they should have to is another question], but for me that is only envy of a lost opportunity; like when someone keeps a Ferrari in a garage because it's worth so much, when you could be enjoying yourself. Perhaps this is the frame of mind which when taken to extreme produces what you have discribed.

X

[Sherlyn]

Maybe if we didn't run for cover and spoke up that we don't care the way some members are treated.. in a civil way... this all could stop

[Di]

DD kinda more like the "guy" thing to be one up on someone else...
good point DD.............

Thats what I always think too...I either roll my eyes or (depending on what exactly is said ) want to throw my computer across the room.
Thanks DD for saying what alot of us are thinking . I always say I am so lucky my partner makes me feel good as gold.
I feel bad for the partners of the certain ones that imply GGs aren't feminine or womanly enough . More often than NOT the ones with this attitude are ALONE.....and wonder why.

[Sophia KT]

Maybe if we didn't run for cover and spoke up that we don't care the way some members are treated.. in a civil way... this all could stop

Count me in; wherever there are shit and fans is where I feel most at home.

[Fab Karen]

Seems she stumbled across a few threads that she took rather offensively. They talked about how CDers were more feminine than GGs, put GGs down for how they dress in today's society, or made statements that implied GGs aren't feminine or womanly enough and that the CDers are.

According to her email, she felt that there was too much competition and she had no desire to date anyone that couldn't accept her for who she was. She made several references regarding specific posts and stated that for a group of people who want to be accepted for who they really are, these posts reflected quite poorly on the whole. When I tried to argue that it isn't all CDers who felt that way, she made a hell of point in that no one corrected them except moderators. She stated that had she found one post in those threads that told the opposite view, not just a slight slap on the wrists, she would have considered staying. But she didn't and doesn't want to bother now.

Problem is, those same chauvinists keep saying it over & over ( some I think want to sort-of blame GG's rather than look at their own lack of self-esteem to do what they want), so even though some of us speak up against such narrow-mindedness, our response to it can get buried. & sometimes for example, those posting the heavy breathing
subjects ( "what kind of panties do you wear" etc. ) crop up for a bit, & someone new not spending much time looking might assume that is what CD's are all about.

[jennCD]

I have to agree with your post, DD. It is something I've noticed at times since I joined the forum.

However, in my case, the TG aspects of my life are much less about how I look than they are about how I feel. I've somewhat pulled myself away from jenn activities but during the last year, I've understood that I don't do this as a competition (with other CD/TGs or GGs). This is an emotional/mental thing for me more so than it is the simple act of trying to "outperform" anyone else.

I'm sure quite a large percentage of us here are more about wanting to allow ourselves to just feel the way need instead of superficially trying to copy women or "look the part". If we were all about the "show", we'd all be out strutting our stuff every chance we could. That's more of an act, something perhaps done out of admiration but really nothing more than a disguise of sorts.

I'm sorry to hear that your friend came her and ended up walking away with a negative view of us. Overall, I don't get that feeling from most of the members that's I've met here.


jenn

[Cynthia_0101]

I would leave a comment on some of these posts but even though I have seen post's like them before I am always left speechless by some peoples arrogance.

Some of these posts are the exact reason my wife no longer comes to the site, same Idea she gets pissed off beyond words.

Maybe the best bet would be to just ignore these posts like a child's tantrum and soon enough they would be filed down to the bottom of the pile. If no one gives these any attention they will stop posting.

[Deborah Jane]

Maybe if we didn't run for cover and spoke up that we don't care the way some members are treated.. in a civil way... this all could stop

Yeah i,m up for that...
Stand up for what you believe in and don,t let the screw it up for the rest of us!!
This is meant to be a support forum after all.

[Alana65]

DD,

I agree with what you've said here......I've seen a few CD members that I felt overstepped things when talking about how a lot of GG's don't dress nice/look good all of the time. These CD'ers should realize that as hard as we must work to emulate the female gender, it doesn't automatically mean that as women, GG's have it easy (even though they've got the figures & feminine features). And, I apologize for not speaking out to correct them on what affect the negativity could have on the lovely ladies we desire to support and/or love us (that visit, or are members of this forum). Personally, if I had a supportive SO, I could care less if she dressed in sweatpants and a t-shirt most of the time......I still find that attractive (even if a few others don't). to all.

[Kate Simmons]

I know what you mean DD. The "one upmanship" stuff grinds me and is really a "guy" trait. Really the dressing is only part of being like a woman or perhaps I should say being like a human being. Real women do not practice this kind of stuff. They are kind and considerate of others and care about them. In any case, I have stated several times I can't come close to being a woman on one of my "best" days as in my opinion every woman naturally possesses the pure femininity that I will never have. I can copy the appearance, the mannerisms, the moves and other things but I can never truely capture the pure essense of being a woman no matter what I do and that I freely admit, no matter how "good" I seem to look. I have learned a lot from the GG's on this site and appreciate them, their feelings and opinions.

[KatrinaAshley]

You know how the saying goes. "If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all." All of us have different ways of expressing ourselves and what is a turn on to some may be a turn off to the rest. Rather than appear to be attacking members of our community we let things slide and perhaps that is where your friend was misinterpreting what she read.

That's how the web is. Anyone can say what they like and those posts can be taken in many ways depending on the person reading. The most important thing for you to tell them is how YOU feel instead of taking the opinions of someone neither of you know.

[JenniferPaul]

I am sorry for the bad expericence your friends had in this forum.

There is a quite a variety of people who post here, and for every person who expressed those awful ideas, there are many who feel the opposite. Many crossdressers have a sexist and steriotypical view of women. You just need to forewarn your friends that they like anywhere they meet people they may run into some jerks.

Blackwell has his list of worst dress women, once he had a CD on it. Many will agree or disagree with his choice. For me I, do not recall meeting any women with really bad style, but I have meet many cd who dress really badly.

What do we cd know about femininity really. One must take such comparison of femininity for what its worth. manyly Not much.

There are many good people here. One just may get prick by some thorns before one can pick the rose.

Jennifer

[Patti Girl]

Perhaps I'm one of the offenders, I think I've noted that women rarely wear skirts or dresses any more. My wife wears a skirt a couple of times a year and I do a double take when she puts on lipstick.

Crossdressers have to go extremes to feel feminine. (It's been noted many times that if one wants to pass at the mall, DO NOT dress too feminine.)

But if such comments are deemed offensive, then I guess I don't belong here and I'll quit the board.

Bye all.

Patti

[DemonicDaughter]

I posted this because I believe in standing up for who you are and what you do. I'm on this site to support my SO and the amazing friends I've met while on here. I know the majority of CDers don't have this "holier than thou" attitude. I think my friend would have had a different outlook had she seen these posts get demolished like so many others regarding other sensitive subjects. As stated, only the moderator made a statement then closed the thread.

I shouldn't have to warn anyone about anyone else on this site. My friends are full grown adults and know they will meet idiots anywhere they go. The point was, she was very intrigued by the idea of a male presenting as a female. She said she'd love to learn more, so how could I not send her to my second home? Here! You could imagine how upsetting it was to find out that she happen to come across these posts. She did mention that all the panty and bra posts were a bit "odd" but she took into consideration that many here were new to CDing. She even told me she thought of posting a few responses but opted to lurk a bit more. Well the lurking stopped and so did her interest.

I posted because I hate that any of my cding friends have to live in any level of secrecy. I post because I find this interesting, appealing and wonderful. I post because I have a voice that has just as much right to be heard as anyone else's. But I'll be damned if someone is going to tell me I'm somehow less of a woman because I wear jeans. And THAT was her sentiments. How can I argue when no one else does? How can I defend any CDer when they themselves don't voice an opinion?

[CowGurl Rachel]

The way I see it, a GG's femininity is more than "skin deep", so saying a GG does not dress feminine enough (like Gretchen Wilson?) or is not feminine enough misses the point. I see my crossdressing as an expression of who I am inside. Outward appearances alone, do not make the GG or CD or whoever, who they are. Truth of it is, I learn to outwardly appear feminine by learning from GG's. GG's have a natural femininity that I do not. Some people just can't get passed the surface of things. Your friends, maybe, should read THIS thread, to see what the "real" girls on here are like!

Although, I will say that I am more feminine than my Dad... who, in fact is very masculine, which I am only average in that dept.

Rachel

[Niya W]

But I'll be damned if someone is going to tell me I'm somehow less of a woman because I wear jeans. And THAT was her sentiments. How can I argue when no one else does? How can I defend any CDer when they themselves don't voice an opinion?

I've gotten into arguments over fights over this with one CDer I know.its basically its a vision that they have of what a women should be not what women are. This is not the 50's women can wear jeans. Look around see what women wear. Because you have this vision of June Cleaver does not make me less feminine.

[GypsyKaren]

Anyone here who thinks they're better than the GG's in anything is an idiot who's living in a fantasy world of cotton candy dreams and who the hell knows what else.

Karen Starlene

[Angie G]

I'm saddened to think some one here would do that. That is just rude and I hope we seeno more of it.
Angie