Good post DD. When I read the sort of things you mention I just shake my head and don't bother responding because I know the thread is doomed. I suppose I could tear a strip off someone for being insensitive to GG's but I've seen people ganged up on when they stray from what's acceptable here but I don't wish to be part of that. Hopefully your message will be heard but there will always be someone who comes along and starts it all over again.
You don't have to have been born female to enjoy being a girl
Perhaps . . . and then maybe it would just drag the thread on bringing it more and more attention.Originally Posted by Sherlyn
There a lot of fantastic people on the this board that I admire and enjoy reading their posts...and there are others that I dont care to read and ignore...I think its a shame your friends would be that down on a group of fine folks over a couple of stupid posts.....
I am sorry your friend feels that way and hope she will give this board another shot..have her read some of Suzy's or Kymberly's posts and I think she will change her mind
Yes, but maybe attention is what it needs. I'm not saying we should argue at every opportunity, but there are some pretty short lived threads on here. Perhaps those sort of threads should get the same treatment? Problems don't go away if ignore and I don't think arguing is the best solution. But I think a show of no tolerance sends a definite sign to those who are putting down others, GGs or not.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[SIZE="3"]"We're all born naked. Everything we wear is drag," said Boy George
[/SIZE]
I totally agree about the typical crossdressers attitude.... and I bite my tounge.......
Well, I hope it's not me! Anyway, this is stupid. So women don't fem up. HA! I've seen it everyday in the corporate world. Tell your friend to come back and call people like that jerks, and I'll back her up in any posts I see. Besides, this board is open to the world, like any other board. Just like a political board where Dems and Repubs mix it up about the issues. I know it turned her off, but I think she left a bit early. She doesn't know any of us yet. She'll find friends. And when she can post to the women-only board, she can ask stuff like "what the f is wrong with x" or "why so many bra and panty posts". LOL
One thing that makes forums like these interesting is the diversity of outlook and opinion. But it guarantees that someone will ALWAYS be offended. I get offended sometimes, boo hoo! I am offensive sometimes, double boo hoo!
Sure, you can have an atmosphere where everyone tries to shout down the opinions and outlook of others they disagree with. But, soon factions and clics form around the various positions and ultimately the strongest clic drives off everyone else. Then there's nothing left to say since those that are left either agree with each other or are afraid to say anything. What's left of the group just withers away.
It is possible to express an outlook that radically different to the outlook of others without attacking the worthiness, morals, intelligence, religion or lack of, cultural background or whatever of the people you disagree with. I believe it's more important to provide a place where crossdressers can feel comfortable expressing themselves outside of the closet, even their "stupid" ideas and feelings, maybe for the first time in their lives, than it is to worry that some outsiders are getting offended or that they are making "us" look bad. I'm sure I'm in the minority, though.
Seen the Trailers for "Wanted?" A. "The Lips" J. teaches the Protagonist how to be an assassin. One technique was to curve a pistol shot around intervening objects, sic, to hit the target. Piffle.
I've parked my hard glutes in DD's lap (Mmmm), oops, sorry, history distraction. She does NOT curve shots. She is a no BS, Straight Shooter. You could learn a lot from a woman like her.
Both of my Professions are elite fields of endeavor where massive loss of life are around every turn, if you do not make the right move EVERY TIME, not most, EVERY. I'm at the tip of the spear in both arenas. No Slack, ever. But.. CDing. Hah! A very fun, adrenaline producing, sexually arousing diversion. A mud fence with lipstick would out poll my muscular ass in a frock. Even being the Elite bastidge I am, I would never presume to color in a GG's book. GG's are too much fun just the way they are. I admire them too much, probably. At least they are usually smart enough to stay off the battlefield and I'm not.
Don't pine for a fantasy past. Make a new future. You're gonna live there like it or not.
Suck it up boys, or the girls won't want to play with you. Need I say it...
Girls are fun to play with.
Huntress
Hi DD,
There are idiots everyplace. I feel the way you do as well, but I also know that there is going to be some "crap" that I will have to put up with......... I will make sure that I keep us out of harmful places and away from purposely hurtful people.. but there will be times that those idiots will act foolish. What can I do? Not a darned thing. I have to take the high road and walk away otherwise they get what they want..... they have ruined my day.
I am the last one on earth to say, "Don't voice your opinion" because I am known for ripping people up here if they say something disrespectful and I catch it. But my truth is, and I firmly believe this - If someone makes fun of someone that is black, it makes a bigger impact if someone WHITE says it is unacceptable. If someone makes fun of women, then it will make a bigger impact if a man says something about it being unacceptable. At the same time, so many cd'ers are so used to being 'in the closet' that they are afraid of being hurt that they keep to themselves.
I say "rip away!" and I do rip away. I am sorry that your friends left the site because of a few bad apples. My next question is, do you really think they could handle the social pressure of being with a cd - if they can't even handle the cd'ers themselves?
Being out might prove to be too much.
Just my opinion, and I could be wrong.
Hugs,
Kris
[SIZE="3"]I'm BACK..... I miss you all so much!![/SIZE]
Two thoughts:
The first is that every time I walk into the MtF forums, I'm really dismayed at the attitudes shown here. Each post gives me a mental image, and I'm assaulted with images of fat, bearded men having pecker contests over who's dress is the pinkest and most frilly. Add in the mental health cases and the holier than thou zealots who think we should all be out on a corner in drag and holding a picket sign, and you'll understand why I hang out a lot more in the lounge than anywhere else.
My second thought is that the only reason moderators are the only people who'll step in and stop the crap that's going on around here is because a lot of people actually think those sickly sweet posts, hemmorhaging with emoticons are actually feminine. It's more akin to, quoted from someone else, that goofy falsetto that "Homer Simpson uses when he's imitating Marge." Coupled with the fact that the language restrictions are so tight that THIS post might have actually crossed the line into ban territory, I feel like we're just all standing around that kid from the Twilight Zone, trying to put on the most pleasant face possible, to avoid being sent to the corn field.
I noticed this after visiting the FtM forum and realizing that I haven't even seen a fraction of the people who frequent this place. Mostly because a lot of the FtM's don't bother to come up here, yet the MtF's will gladly go downstairs and take a dump in any of the other threads, even if the title says "FTM ONLY". And it really sucks, because there are a lot of good people here with a lot of good advice to give.
If things are going to change, we all need to realize that we're just fat, ugly men in dresses.
I think it is to easy to send off a post and regrettably some people should really wait and review their post before they click on the send button. Do these people tend to offend. probably not. They were careless and not moderate in their speech.
Sometime I get the feeling that some people will comment on every tread even if they do not really have anything to say. one does not have to comment or read on every thread. and some threads should be avoided. Know that some post were made by people who did not think well before they posted,
Move past a bad posts and if you find some of us with more sensible opinions say so and perhaps send a personal message.
Jennifer
Great discussion DD!
Hmm... the question I'm pondering is why they (perhaps even we as I may have made comments that come across that way myself at times) do this.
One thing I've noticed about people is that those who posture more, brag, are arrogant or elitist etc are the ones who are the most fragile on the inside.
Putting others down to shore up ones own brittle ego and self image is not new. Its not just a male trait to be competitive for that reason either, I've seen plenty of comeptitive and snarky behaviour amongst men and women with my own eyes and ears.
So my guess is that the motivation of such comments will be fear, vulnerability, self doubt and desperate attempts to justify crossdressing especially if that person has tastes that aren't mainstream in fashion any more. But then fashion trends themselves are a form of the same behaviour, part of a competative social heirarchy system filled with conformity.
Many womens magazines are filled with similar competative judgemental attitudes especially of celebrity womens clothes.
Those aren't excuses, just possible explanations of 'why'. This discussion is an awesome opportunity for us all to reevaluate our judgements of others and our own self-acceptance to not just curve this problematic behaviour but to also gain wisdom and be happier better people.
Thanks for raising this DD!
DD, I'm so sorry that your friend was offended. It must be very hard for her finding a place where everyone treats everybody with respect. It is a sad fact that some of our members are thoughtless at best. Actually, I think we do a pretty good job in admonishing those who come here with a meanspirited post critical of how anyone presents themselves. For those who make such posts out of ignorance, what they need is some sensitivity training, not public humiliation, IMO. And perhaps you friend needs to learn not to paint us all with the same brush as well.
Fulltime girl on the inside.
Lipstick=confidence
[SIZE=4]Holly[/SIZE]
My thoughts exactly.
But why is the rum gone?! - Capt. Jack Sparrow[SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl[/SIZE]
Why is the rum always gone? - Capt. Jack Sparrow[SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest[/SIZE]
Why is all but the rum gone? No, the rum's gone too . . .- [SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: At World End[/SIZE]
[SIZE="3"]Lex on the Beach[/SIZE]. . . [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If I had to respond to every post that offended me or was not agreeable with my way of thinking, it would be very exhausting. It would be even more exhausting if I had to protect other people's feelings from being offended in any way. I think DD is peachy and wish there were more women like her, but honestly if they were like DD then they would be able to take care of themselves without any help from me. I have a rather deep sympathy for everyone on this site and personally tend to idolize women. The fact that I have a high opinion of women in general doesn't mean I think I have to defend them all of the time. In my view, most women take care of themselves very nicely, which is one of the many things I like about them. I am also not too interested in attacking feminine males. We don't agree about everything, but my sympathy for them runs very deep. In short, I try to stay positive about everything I read here because we all have similar feelings and experiences that affect us in common ways that transcend the things that are said or don't get said. I would tell DD's friend that she is sweet to be interested in feminine males and that she shouldn't be too bothered about anything she reads here. It's okay not to agree with everybody about everything.
I wish I said that...My sentiments exactly
Reality is, we live in a world where every one is different and entitled to there own opinion. If I don't like what some one has said/wrote I have two choices. Walk away or put forward my argument.I am not defending what they say, but their right to an opinion. This is a 'Forum' and it's very nature, a discussion board. If we were all to think alike, then we could always change this to an 'Announcement board'
Some members may go 'Overboard', but there are enough members here who would disagree with them.
what is the old saying?
"I disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death, your right to say it"
Sarah R.
Last edited by Sarah Rabbit; 06-30-2008 at 12:24 AM.
Every time I walk down the street, I see every eye on me.
Every time they look at me, I wonder, who do they see?
Perfection in disguise,with regimes and alibis.
The girl in the mirror , isn't the same as the girl in my heart
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Hmmmm. This is so interesting. I cannot disagree with the original post and many of the responses. We have, I think, a number of inherent problems to deal with. One is that this is an online forum in which you type the words you want to say. I have set out to post many replies which I have deleted because I couldn't make the typed words reflect my feelings. So I didn't bother. It can be really difficult (not impossible) to accurately post irony, humour, sadness, empathy, love, despair etc etc if you haven't got the essential part of human communication - the visual and aural cues. Your friend was right DD, if the overall impression was of intolerant people - whatever kind of people they might be - then why stay? One wouldn't hang out with intolerant people out in the physical world through choice, unless one harboured the same intolerances of course. I suppose many of the polls / questions etc posted on here develop from a need to know why things are how they are and given the very wide spectrum of CD / TG life there will always be people for whom panties are the be all and end all of their experience (and why not?) and those for whom nothing less than the chance to be as close to 100% female as it is possible for them to be is the whole of their life (and why not?). Like TV, we can switch off if we don't agree or if we feel strong enough we can argue, discuss or remonstrate. Arguably, if we switch off from a thread then are we not simply allowing others to express their feelings as we hope we can express our own? I think I am agreeing that there will always be threads that are offensive to people and we should indeed seek to question those but there are others that evolve from simple misunderstandings, misplaced humour etc that are much better ignored if one feels that way inclined. Our strength in tolerance will be in knowing the difference. Personally I like to see the well-thought out response to threads. For example, recent poll - are you more of a girly girl than your SO? - many responses of yes, one or two of no and one or two of "sometimes her, sometimes me". One might as well have asked who's best at cooking - well if I can be bothered it's me and if my SO can be bothered it's her!! The chance to respond to these sorts of threads is a good thing - the chance to see some of the gems of advice and experience that are written is priceless (especially for us newbies). The chance to have a good laugh at times is a real relief from some of the difficulties each of us faces, in reality each day.
Fantastic post DD, I will be applying some deeper thought to my posts and responses from now on. I dearly hope the well-placed humour doesn't go away though, it's such a tonic.
Sarah...
Change that "dress" to "panties" and you might have the beginning of a point, but it seems to me that you over-exaggerate, either for effect or through faulty perception. There are repeated themes that show up that leave me uninspired, but if they weren't meaningful to a sufficient flow of people, the themes wouldn't keep cropping up. Other members here are not under mandate to keep me personally entertained; I can simply skip the threads that don't mean much to me.
But even after skipping those threads that don't happen to touch me, every single day I find people writing postings from the heart, whether that be sharing their successes or their sorrows or making attempts to understand themselves or the world, or in trying to help others with their struggles. There are a lot of inspiring posts in this section ("inspiring" as in "leading one to think or care about something", not as in "insipidly positive")
And I'm one of those. A lot of the members are, for various reasons; hereditary in my case. I'm not proud of being a mental health case: it's a fact of my life, and I do the best I can with it. I am, though, proud that, by speaking openly of my experiences, I have helped others understand and deal with their own situation better.Add in the mental health cases
There are few indeed of those around. There are, though, some posters who put a lot of thought and effort into their postings, but whose postings could be misunderstood as zealotry if the postings are read too quickly or if the reader is not familiar with the structured development of ideas and the format of academic debates.and the holier than thou zealots who think we should all be out on a corner in drag and holding a picket sign,
and you'll understand why I hang out a lot more in the lounge than anywhere else.Ah, Jerome Bixby's "It's a Good Life" (not, as some might perhaps have guessed, Steven King's "Children of the Corn")I feel like we're just all standing around that kid from the Twilight Zone, trying to put on the most pleasant face possible, to avoid being sent to the corn field.
I may be fat (medical reasons), and I may be in a dress, but I've never been ugly. Ugly is within, not the external appearance.If things are going to change, we all need to realize that we're just fat, ugly men in dresses.
I hope I have never said anything to offend a GG, if I have I am truely sorry.
I can understand how GGs can be turned off by some of the selfish attitudes some CDers show to the world. There are some threads that I see, and I think, oh no! I hope this does not send the GGs running away. DD let me know if I have post something offensive, pm me if that is the case so I can be more aware before I post anything. As far as passing for a woman I dont come close. I do love GGs, they are the most wonderful of Gods creation. I believe that GGs should wear what they feel like, and it does not make them less feminine if they are wearing pants, GGs look great in pants also. We are being hypocritical when we criticise women for wearing pants, how do we expect GGs to not be critical of us for wearing dresses if we cannot accept them for wearing pants.
Unless we expect to live in a cookie cutter world, I think that to express the idea that there are people here who have all sort of ideas and views about why they do what they do and act like they do and think like they do and to feel that everybody's view and ideas are wrong and out of touch and politically incorrect is just wierd.
Look around people. There are a bunch of people attracted to this site because they are either men dressing an women, women dressing as men or women that live with men dressing as women. You don't think that there might be a lot of confusion and ideas about what makes this so? That there are way out ideas? That many,if not most of us, don't fully understand what makes us tick and act this way. Add to that the hostility and lack of understanding and empathy out in the world. And the guilt we are supposed to feel (according to many) and the pain that we feel.
I come to this forum to see how others of us feel, think and act. Do I agree with all? No. Will I ever agree with all? No. Heck I have problems with the rest of the world (the other half, of course) about money, politics, living life and almost everything to do with everyday life. Does that mean that they have no right to talk, to put out ideas, to live near me? Of course not. I listen to them, argue with them, try to convert them to my ideas as they try to convert me. As long as it is an exchange of ideas without violence, threats and has great and reasonable thoughts - hey, sometimes I do change my mind, sometimes I don't and sometimes I see their points of view but still disagree.
To me there is no such thing as a bad discussion. We can't all fall into lock step on ideas. Where would the progress come from and, as we have seen, societies that do this are invariably weaker, oppressive and sadly, out of touch with reality.
Dawn
well said..some need to look in the mirror and then they may realize why they are alone...ive just been around too long (i did not just get off the turnip truck so to speak) to be smoked by those who constantly try and blame others for their own problems (as if society is not full of this dilema)..ive pondered throwing in the towel here..then i think..why..life is full of boneheads and why should i expect any different on this wasteland we call the internet..Thats what I always think too...I either roll my eyes or (depending on what exactly is said ) want to throw my computer across the room.
Thanks DD for saying what alot of us are thinking . I always say I am so lucky my partner makes me feel good as gold.
I feel bad for the partners of the certain ones that imply GGs aren't feminine or womanly enough . More often than NOT the ones with this attitude are ALONE.....and wonder why.
GGs have nothing to prove, they are women whatever they wear.
Tgirls have to exagerrate their femininety as they strive to be passable; they wear far more skirts, dresses and heels than the average woman about town.We also go in for far brighter & exuberant colours etc. It is also a fact that today's women's fashions are far less feminine than in the 1950s for example. I was walking in town yesterday and the vast majority of women were wearing trousers (pants). I only saw one woman dressed in a very feminine way; in a dress and cardi.
Whether we like it or not, as women have become more equal to men, they dress more like them. To aspire to pass nowadays, T-girls have to wear trousers and sombre colours ; hence their disappointment and moaning !
As Arriana pointed out, its a very male trait to slag off the other gender even when you're dressing like a member of it. Not productive and when you read it you always get the impression that the author is just desperate to write something.
Are we not men?
Peace through superior dress sense..
Really? she can say that without fear of abuse? I don't think so. How do I know? Because any time a GG questions anything on this board, we get slapped down for voicing our opinion, we aren't allowed to disagree, have a voice, we're just here to read the constantand live with it... and people wonder why most GG's leave this board... because the constant crap they have to read in this section puts them off, but God help any one of us that dares to stand up and say something... we're being 'abusive' or 'vile'... so pardon me if I think your statement saying she can come here and say that, seriously wouldn't go down well, because she'd get slapped down for it.
It's nice to see those in this thread saying 'oh that's so bad for your friend' etc... and you would stand up for them etc... but you don't, you don't say anything, you just ignore it and leave the GG's to get trashed. It's been going on a long time, but if the mods/admins say anything about it, we're being bullies.. because it's a CD forum and anything should be allowed in here.... w/e
DD, thank you for your post, but I feel it will fall on deaf ears... because the majority really doesn't give a crap.
Administrator
Missing my Libra babe Sherlyn, I hope she's rocking up there with the angels
Missing our Rianna, doesn't seem right, gone to early, hope she's partying with Sherlyn
Tamara,
I don't mean to pick on you, but I think you may be mistaken on this. The last time I saw a post along the lines of "Why aren't women feminine", it was responded to immediately by quite a few CD's who slapped the person that started the thread down with a hell of trouncing. I haven't bothered to spend the time to go find that thread yet, but the majority of responses were over whelming and to the effect "You have no idea what your typical mother is going through, or how low on her priority list looking pretty and fem is when compared to taking care of the house, family, and children".
If no one wants to take my word for I'll be happy to go looking for that post
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