So.. This is what the GG's on the board must feel like...

[Violetgray]

(This thread is inspired by DemonicDaughter's thread entitled "I Give Up!")

Alot of GG's have expressed on this board that they are upset when reading all of the "Females aren't feminine anymore!" type posts, or "We are more feminine than they are!" type of sentiment. What these GG's say made absolute sense to me, but I could really feel the impact of what they were saying, because since they're not me, their pain was abstract concept. Kind of like when a GG sees a guy get kicked in the gonads. They know it hurts, but they wouldn't really understand. That's how GG's complaints were percieved by me.

UNTIL.....

I remembered knowing this guy in college who was white. But he absolutely LOVED black culture. Very much into hip-hop and reggae, wore alot of rastafarian paraphenalia, and he used alot of slang. Physically he was pale enough to use sour cream as a foundation, but he told everyone he was Native American, I guess because saying he was black would sound absurd.
Anyway, he told me that I acted too white.

Yes, this white person, disdainfully told me, a black person, that I was acting "too white."

And I had no idea I had to do anything to maintain being black. I know that I'm into goth and metal, and renaissance festivals, and roleplaying games, but I was under the impression that I would instantly be black everytime I rolled out of bed in the morning. And here was someone telling me that I wasn't who or what I am supposed to be. It made me feel very insecure.

It was hurful at first, but once I thought about it it made me mad. Who decides what I'm supposed to be? Him? He enjoys emulating black people, that's fine but he's never been pulled over or searched because of his skin color, or instantly terrified an old lady just by heading in her direction, and he's telling me that I'm not doing it right?

The GG's complaints fell on not deaf, but hard-of-hearing ears until
I remembered the hurt, and anger I felt when someone who could never be me thought he could define what it meant to be me, when in reality he was he was projecting his own stereotypical pre-concieved ideas of what a black person should be onto me. And suddenly, to some extent I understood what the GG's are saying.

So just something to think about. This isn't just for women, or people of color, this is for everyone who's ever been told "You're not _______ enough" and remember how that made you feel.

I'm stepping down now, this soapbox can only support me weight so long..

[DemonicDaughter]

Perfect! Just absolutely perfect! You've hit the nail on the head and sank it so far into the wood its not visible anymore. I applaud you!

.... now if only a few others get it.... one can hope, can't they?

[Lisa Rose]

WOW What a wondeful way to put it.

[StephanieF]

Very well expressed Violet. I 'have' been told I'm too _________ and it did bother me. Not only the words but the source they came from.

[renee k]

Perfect! Just absolutely perfect! You've hit the nail on the head and sank it so far into the wood its not visible anymore. I applaud you!

.... now if only a few others get it.... one can hope, can't they?

Violet, I totally agree with DD, my hats off to you for putting this subject into a perspective that everyone should be able to understand. BRAVO!!

Huggs, Renee

[Nicole Erin]

I remembered knowing this guy in college who was white. But he absolutely LOVED black culture. Very much into hip-hop and reggae, wore alot of rastafarian paraphenalia, and he used alot of slang. Physically he was pale enough to use sour cream as a foundation..

Hmm, so you knew a white guy who acted black? I just don't believe it. That is just unheard of.

Gyod, next someone will post a story about a Honda civic owner who thinks his car is a street racer just cause it has a fart can exhaust.

[Kimberely416]

Hmm, so you knew a white guy who acted black? I just don't believe it. That is just unheard of.

Gyod, next someone will post a story about a Honda civic owner who thinks his car is a street racer just cause it has a fart can exhaust.

Maybe you're trying to be funny but you missed the mark on this one. Her response was perfect. Responsibility is one of my by words. Too often people do things and blame someone else. If you ever decide to go on stage, be prepared to duck cause the tomatoes will be flying, even if they are a little tainted of late

[battybattybats]

Well put Violet!

Being an optimistic goth who smiles I've found a few folk have troubles with me not being the stereotype too, even other goths. Not remotely in the same league but a minor version of the same phenomenon.

I think theres an element of 'youth is wasted on the young' jeolous style thinking too. People unable to see that just cause someone else can be what they really want to be doesn't mean the other person wants to be like that too just because they can.

And just like femininity isnt entirely the same as being female so too is the aspects of the cultures of many black people that this guy adores not the same as being black.

Of course most of my fellow white folk are massively ignorant about the depth and breadth and variety of black cultures. They have no idea about the sophisticated great civilisations of Africa like Mali and Abyssinia, the black pharoahs, the complex traditions and languages and spiritualities not to mention the variety of modern cultures.

And of course CDs pick up sexism as they grow up just like everyone else does. Just like that guys racism and all the rest.

[Di]

Well put Violet!

[KatrinaAshley]

When I read both of these topics and saw the ruckus they caused I was surprised that they offended some of you. I got a different impression from the stories. I guess this is why I stayed quiet. What I saw wasn't an insult, it could have been more of a jealous observation. When these people said 'not feminine enough' or 'too white', maybe it was their way of asking 'how can you not enjoy what you have naturally?'. They work hard to achieve a certain style and then find those they attempt to emulate don't enjoy it the same way. What they don't understand is these people can and have enjoyed their style but also have days when they prefer to act or dress casual. No different than how our male sides aren't always in suits and ties, but shorts and sandals.

It's somewhat confusing and I hope I made some sense. My whole point being that words don't mean the same thing to everyone else. Seemingly innocent comments, while sometimes out of place, inadvertently step on other's feelings. So sit back, relax and enjoy the ride like I do.

[DemonicDaughter]

When I read both of these topics and saw the ruckus they caused I was surprised that they offended some of you. I got a different impression from the stories. I guess this is why I stayed quiet. What I saw wasn't an insult, it could have been more of a jealous observation. When these people said 'not feminine enough' or 'too white', maybe it was their way of asking 'how can you not enjoy what you have naturally?'. They work hard to achieve a certain style and then find those they attempt to emulate don't enjoy it the same way. What they don't understand is these people can and have enjoyed their style but also have days when they prefer to act or dress casual. No different than how our male sides aren't always in suits and ties, but shorts and sandals.

It's somewhat confusing and I hope I made some sense. My whole point being that words don't mean the same thing to everyone else. Seemingly innocent comments, while sometimes out of place, inadvertently step on other's feelings. So sit back, relax and enjoy the ride like I do.

Because you can't be less of a woman when you were born one. You can either have an operation or you remain a woman. You cannot be less black than you were born without its own ordeal. We are genetically made the people we are, so to hear someone tell you that you are not [whatever] enough when that is what you were born as, is like telling corn, its not corn enough.

Just because someone else feels they appear, act or dress more feminine should never imply someone else is less so or less a woman. Just like if someone appears, acts or dresses in accordance to another culture shouldn't imply anyone else is less of that culture.

And I don't think that making statements that belittle another person by describing them as "grizzly", "hideous" or "nothing attractive" would be considered "seemingly innocent comments" by anyone's standards.

[MJ]

after reading both posts i truly hope everyone here will think twice before posting . lets not hurt anyone by what we say .. respect and love for everyone .
yes i live in the real world full time and it's bad enough i have to deal with the hurtful thing people say and do ..without having to see it here .
this is my home from home and my safe place , and would hope that everyone here can be respectful .. it don't take a rocket scientist to see i am different , i don't pass and don't care i just want to be me . remember love and respect for everyone ..

[KatrinaAshley]

Because you can't be less of a woman when you were born one. You can either have an operation or you remain a woman. You cannot be less black than you were born without its own ordeal. We are genetically made the people we are, so to hear someone tell you that you are not [whatever] enough when that is what you were born as, is like telling corn, its not corn enough.

Just because someone else feels they appear, act or dress more feminine should never imply someone else is less so or less a woman. Just like if someone appears, acts or dresses in accordance to another culture shouldn't imply anyone else is less of that culture.

This much is obvious to all of us, which is what makes me think the comments could have been related to style in a slang way and not physical/cultural, meaning just a misunderstanding. I have no way to know if it was meant maliciously, in which case you'd be correct. The world likes to be mean at times.

And I don't think that making statements that belittle another person by describing them as "grizzly", "hideous" or "nothing attractive" would be considered "seemingly innocent comments" by anyone's standards.

Those choice words, no. If this is what you have seen then I can understand where you're coming from. I only visit occasionally, perhaps I missed some of the more critical topics.

[TGMarla]

I guess I'm not man enough. I've got this crazy behavioral thing about running around the house in high heels and dresses.

I think it's amusing that people so often link and confuse physical traits and behavioral traits as if one necessarily had something to do with the other.

[bah-bah-bobbie]

I guess I'm not man enough. I've got this crazy behavioral thing about running around the house in high heels and dresses.

I think it's amusing that people so often link and confuse physical traits and behavioral traits as if one necessarily had something to do with the other.

If I see someone with long hair, arm full of tattoos wearing a shirt depicting Megadeth, I'm not going to assume he listens to Bach or Dixie Chicks. People usually advertise who they are by what they wear. Stoners, goth, rasta's etc. Even people with respectable carreers when they are off duty have an unnatural cleanlieness and crispness to their attire. There are always exceptions but they are far too few in between to worry about. Personally, I know many people with long hair and an arm full of tattoos that listens to heavy metal music. I am one of them. But many are dissapointed when they learn I don't play guitar or ride a motorcycle. I'm not "metal" enough for most of them. I'm used to it by now. In high school I was too tame for the stoner crowd but too wild for the contemporaries. Despite my interest and knowledge I was never "wrench" enough for the other motor heads. I know every line from every Star Wars movie made but can't relate to other science fiction buffs. I love welding and wood working, but I don't feel right in their clubs. And I can prommise everyone on this board that I am not crossdresser enough, hope noone minds . Eventually I figured I am not enough of anything for anybody but I am plenty of me. A square peg in a round world may not fit anywhere, but it cant get trapped either.

[Veronica 1]

Well, what are we trying to say here, we are all individuals and we all have our own aspects and outlooks. It is not up to others to tell us how to live our lives as it is not up to us to tell others how to live theirs. We all ask for acceptance but can we also give acceptance? It is a tit for tat conception that if we want to be who we are, we must also allow other to be who they are. I am not a GG and I have no idea what it entails to be one but I try to do my best to emulate one within my limited knowledge. I do not come close to their perfection and I really never will but I have fun doing the best that I can. I am not a manly man but I do my best to fit into that world. I have to find a balance that will allow me to be a man and a woman at the same time and this, to me, means that if I cannot allow others to live their life as they prefer how can I expect others to allow me the same courtesy.

[waspookie6]

Violetgray, I appreciate you sharing a part of your life that had to have been (and may still is) very hurtful. It takes a lot of guts to dig down that deep yet surface with such honesty.

Thank You

[deja true]

... Eventually I figured I am not enough of anything for anybody but I am plenty of me. A square peg in a round world may not fit anywhere, but it cant get trapped either.

Bobbie! This is brilliant!

It's an analolgy that almost all of us can embrace...

Now if we can only shave down some of those really sharp edges that occasionally scratch someone else!

(A wonderful introduction, too, by the way...Welcome!)

respect & love,

deja

[Angie G]

Hay Violet you go girl great post
Angie

[erickka]

Violet, You and DD have provoked some serious thought here. I hope that everyone can learn to be a little more considerate of each other. If that were true with everyone in this world, I think we'd all get along a whole lot better. My grandma once told me that if you don't have something kind or good to say, then keep quiet. I still try to keep not so nice opinions to myself, since I try to live by the "harm none" credo.

[DemonicDaughter]

Those choice words, no. If this is what you have seen then I can understand where you're coming from. I only visit occasionally, perhaps I missed some of the more critical topics.

I quoted the exact posts, unfortunately. Read my other posts and you'd soon find I'm very compassionate and always willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt. So you know when I complain... its a doozie! lol

If I see someone with long hair, arm full of tattoos wearing a shirt depicting Megadeth, I'm not going to assume he listens to Bach or Dixie Chicks.

Well you should! LOL! I am tattooed, pierced, black hair, gothic clothes, listen to metal AND I have a vast collection of classical and country music.

There are always exceptions but they are far too few in between to worry about.

I know... but isn't it just a joy in life to find one?

... Eventually I figured I am not enough of anything for anybody but I am plenty of me. A square peg in a round world may not fit anywhere, but it cant get trapped either.

I think that is a perfect response! Its nice to see that self acceptance is still practiced. Kudos to you!

[Tamara Croft]

I applaud you Violet, you know EXACTLY how we feel, because you've had the same thing done to you. I think unless you've been made to feel this way, you won't understand, so hopefully both these threads will educate you enough to know, we're not going to put up with listening to 'you're not feminine enough' anymore... it's not nice ya know

[Bev06 GG]

Well Violetgray you have excelled. That is one heck of a classic and hit the nail quite squarly on the head. So the next time any CD says to me I'm not dressed like a GG I'm gonna tell em to go do a Violetgray.
Love ya

[AmandaM]

Your white friend was drawn toward blackness. Like CDers are drawn toward the feminine. They both perceive that their version of what they seek is the "ideal" or even the "norm". When you violated that, the fantasy came crashing down. Hence, their defensive reaction. They try to protect their fantasy cause otherwise, they could end up being the fraud. This is the height of arrogance. OK, everyone wake up now!

[DemonicDaughter]

Your white friend was drawn toward blackness. Like CDers are drawn toward the feminine. They both perceive that their version of what they seek is the "ideal" or even the "norm". When you violated that, the fantasy came crashing down. Hence, their defensive reaction. They try to protect their fantasy cause otherwise, they could end up being the fraud. This is the height of arrogance. OK, everyone wake up now!

But why should others be subjected to another's fantasy? I'd love my own version of the world to exist but I don't publicly bash those that shatter the delusion. CDers aren't going with the "norm" either and here we are attempting to support them then someone decides we don't play into their fantasy enough. How mean is that?