What are your experiences wearing a bra in guy mode? Did you plainly show you're wearing a bra? What were people's reactions? Some of you do wear bras in guy mode!
When they saw the strap of my chemise fall off my shoulder - they found out I cd at Fansteel. They laid me off eventually.
Last edited by KateSpade83; 07-29-2008 at 08:16 PM.
The only problem I've had is many many years was. I donate plasma twice a week, and one day as always, I was wearing a bra under a semi tight tee shirt. the nurse saw it, but didn't say anything. the next time I donated, there was a note in my folder, that I had to see the nurse before I could donate. So in I went, there was the nurse ( not the same one though), a memeber of management, and one of the senior workers. I was asked if I was wearing a bra that day, was I wearing one now, and why I wore one. I said outright because I am a crossdresser. Then of course, the inevetible question, was I gay. Because if you're gay, you can't donate, because of aids and HIV. Of course, I said no I wasn't gay. I was then aasked that I didn't wear a bra, when I donate. and that I had to take off the bra I was wearing that day, and show them that I took it off.
I still wear a bra when I donate, but usually it's a sports bra, because I go in straight after work, and I wear a sports bra everyday to work. Since that day, I haven't been summoned to the nurse's office.
Ok. I'll take this opportunity to ask, because I am, to borrow a NASA term, a "Full Up" crossdresser and do not quite appreciate the "Halfway There" crossdresser. This is very much different than those who express an androgenous or genderqueer identity, I think.
I do not quite understand why a man would chose to wear female undergarments with male garments on top while in public. I especially do not understand this if one wishes not to be "outed," when wearing a bra is obvious. The "cost-benefit" analysis seems to demonstrate the exercise is hardly worth it. Similarly, I've heard that some, while in "male" mode, go to work or otherwise conduct themselves in public with polished nails or wear female jeans with a male top and so on. A crossdresser like me desires to emulate a female archetype, not cause a scene. As a guy who very much appreciates my masculine side, I would be horrified if anyone felt I was less of a man because I wore female clothes once in awhile. Not because it is true, but because it is a misperception of who I am. It would be like saying I was a member of a religion, which in fact I am not.
Help me understand this. You folks have helped me understand myself, and now I want to understand other points of view.
Last edited by Alex!; 07-29-2008 at 08:22 PM.
Well Andrea, it's like this, and it's quite simple. You are who you are and we are who we are. There are no set rules to crossdressing. there is nothing saying we have to be all or nothing.
I for one don't care to dress up all the time. I do however prefer to have something femenine on at all times. And what I wear is all female no matter if it looks like it or not.
As my Title says, I wear feminine underwear because I like to! I like the fit, feel, and looks of panties and bras. Also, I am a natural 40 B so almost need a bra!Originally Posted by Andrea M. Forbes
Having said that, I will add that I do not usually wear a bra if I am going on a sales call. I sell insurance, primarily to older people who wouldn't understand a man wearing a bra. But any other time, I don't care if they see it or not. I go out in public all the time wearing femme stuff, but looking like the guy I am. At age 76, having been a CD for over 60 years, I simply don't care!!
BTW, both my finger nails and my toe nails are always painted. Pink fingers and usually bright red toes. I wear open toe sandals too!
Sissy/Stephanie
Lady on the outside, but man underneath!
[SIZE="4"][/SIZE]
I wish I could dress more but maybe that helps me enjoy the times I do get to dress. I usually wear my panties under whatever I'm wearing. When I dress at the house I go all out and dress completely. I agree with Andrea about dressing but I can't always wear what I want to. I cannot see me wearing a bra to work. I would be beaten to whatever. When I am at home and I have the opprotunity to dress I enjoy it to the fullest. I do have a couple of pair of womens shorts that I wear with a t-shirt and wife is good with that. I wish I could look good enough to go out fully dressed but I have a LOT of work to do before that. I am glad for you Andrea that you can do what you do, I wish I could do the same.
That would have been the last time I donated! What I wear is none of their business, and beggars cannot be choosers.
For my wife's sake I try to stay fairly discreet, but I still like to feel something ladylike on me at times. On the other hand, I'm not brave enough to go out fully femmed when it's not Halloween. To each there own.
To Andrea,
I have finally come to the conclusion that I am gender queer. I have got to have boobs, but like my lower parts too. But it took a lot of time to get to this understanding. Wearing bras gave me a comfort level that I felt more right than without a bra. And now I wear a bra with small boobs most of the time. People do not know what to think of it, but haven't mentioned it except for one co-worker that sung quietly a couple of words from the lumberjack song. Company has gender expression clause. Boss knows and HR knows.
A fully passing crossdresser may not have as much impact as one who doesn't pass very well. How better to let people know about transgender than by being out there and not causing a stir but being different.
I just got back from my 35th high school reunion where I went in somewhat boy mode, but with small boobs that were obvious. Nobody asked and I didn't say anything. People may beieve it is a medical problem.
If my wife and I broke up, I might go full time femme, but until then, I must go the gender queer route.
Dee
Andrea, I always were panties under my male clothes, sometimes wear a camisole or bra depending if I am shopping or in a place where I feel comfortable wearing it. I believe it is because I like to acknowledge my female self on a more 24/7 basis rather than just when I can get fully dressed.
When I think of my earliest remembrances of crossdressing ....it was always partial.....mom's slip, my friend's older sister's bra, my aunt's lingerie, etc...so to continue doing this when I can't fully dress is no different than who I was when I was younger......except now they are my clothes!
I really don't do it for shock value....but then that's me.
Kristen
I ware a bra and forms during the cooler season when I have to ware a jacket or colt and so nothing stands out to much, I love the feel of the bra and the forms. I also like to see how cloths fit with boobs, does make a differance. I have no problem letting the SAs know what I am wearing and I always try on. I do ware the under garmets that are suitable for what I am buying like a good girl should.
Andrea, if you apply those rules, then GG's should not wear men's shirts or jeans, like they do, and problably not pants. We are just a bit ahead of the changes in the culture likely. We do not have as rigid a sense of gender, one such as was popular in the olden days.
Quite right!
Andrea's question supposes not only that gender is binary, but that it is important for it to be perceived and portrayed as binary; that one can look male, or one can look female, but being in-between is not only unacceptable but literally inconceivable!
It's been a long long time since my gender was binary -- but it took me decades to realize that. Yes, I went through the common "Uggh, I've been touched by a girl!" childhood, and No, when I was a child I decidedly did not "get" (understand) girls and had no desire to. I was not one of the "I'd rather be playing with dolls" and "why can't I wear a dress" set. But I was never one of the football or hockey set either: give me a bicycle, a book, some nearby woods, and a chemistry set and I was happy. So I didn't grow up as a girl in a boy's body -- and I didn't really grow up as a boy in a boy's body either. I didn't grow up to be a stereotype: I grew up to be an individual... and eventually I realized that that individual liked wearing skirts and dresses and panties... and that for whatever reason, that individual feels more comfortable having breasts even when wearing a guy face.
Would I wear a skirt to work "as a guy" ? If I thought it would be acceptable, I would seriously consider it. For example if someone else did it first, I could see myself jumping in. And since it's another 13 years before I'm eligible for full retirement, I can imagine that sometime before the end of that 13 years that I'll wear something obviously female in clothing origin. Maybe there will be an "international year of the transgendered" and I'll have an excuseAlready I'm thinking of buying a modest set of forms (e.g., about a B cup) and wearing them routinely, not hiding the bulges (but probably not flaunting them either.) Why? Because it's what feels right to me: from wearing my D-cup forms in a wide variety of situations, somehow I feel that I "should" have had D or perhaps DD breasts: putting on the forms is like "coming home".
Would I go out in public "gender-bending", as an apparent male with apparent female clothes and bust? Yes, definitely: I've done that fair number of times. Wearing a basic skirt (e.g., solid denim or grey, or navy or black) in public as a guy feels comfortable to me; my discomfort rises as the skirt becomes more colourful or patterned or more layered, but I'm slowly working on that, chosing times and places. I'm not bad on wearing a plain denim dress in public as a guy, especially a long one (a little less comfortable with my above-the-knee denim dress); wearing a more colourful dress in public as a guy is still a challenge for me, but I'm working on that too, such as wearing a very plain dull blue dress -- something that is visibly a dress but not yet (in guy mode) dresses that catch the eye from across the street.
I tell you, the struggle to liberate myself to wear "definitely female" clothes as a guy is a lot harder than dealing with the public when I finally make it out with those clothes. And I'm not even talking LBD's or anything "sexy". There's a big difference inside me between wearing garments that are in the shape of traditional women's clothes, and wearing garments that are in the colour and patterns and boldness of traditional women's clothes. Lots of people have seen me out and about as a guy with a bust-line -- they are getting accustomed to it, for the most part. But the step of going out as a guy in (say) one of my velvet dresses... the impediment is inside me. Am I ready to go from being "a guy discretely wearing what's comfortable to him" to being "a transgendered guy wearing clothes that attract attention" (because nice or colourful or patterned clothes attract attention even when worn by GG)? And I'm not there yet. It's a process of self-liberation, and it takes time.
Hi Andrea: o.k. I can't take it any more. This is my pet peeve. We're all in the same boat and I can't for the life of me figure out why some look down their noses at us that do not dress up to the expectations of the "puritans". To put it simply, this is who I am. I don't question your desire to dress fully or not at all, and don't think it is right for you to question or look down on me because I don't. We're all different and we all deviate from the so called normal folks. No wonder we have to sneak around because we can't even accept each other for who we are. My life circumstances are different from yours and so is my crossdressing style. When I'm out and about I can hold my head up and be proud because I am being me and not a fictional character in my head. I apoligize if I've offended anyone here as there have been other threads lately that I wanted to say this but this is the one that broke the proverbial camel's back. Peace and Love to All
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Shine On You Crazy Diamond
Luv Jamie
I tend to lean towards Andrea's point of view. I certainly understand both points of view. I enjoy being male and am not really feminine even while dressed. I have underdressed in public only a handful of times and then it was just white panties.
Can we get back to Kate's original question. Perhaps Andrea would like to post another post, rather than hijack Kate's. I now have a natural 36B (well with the help of herbal) and I wear a bra all the time with French satin knickers, I also wear ladies jeans, shirts, & shoes. I have my hair permed and dyed a dark blond, I also have my ears pierced and wear either gold, pearl or diamond studs and all this in men's drab.
The reaction I get is minimal living as I do in London, although a little while ago my Doctor said that I had been noticed fully dressed sitting on my balcony and, I am afraid I chickened out, telling him I was rehearsing a double act (infact that was not so far from the truth for I had been discussing the possibility. More about that another time) I get the odd stare and I have had the odd remark like "Your wearing women's trousers"! My daughters (33yrs & 27yrs old) were shocked by my transformation and my sister at first forbade me to see her if I was wearing earing's, but time has soothed their reactions and like others have said I am glad that I am me!
As always with my best wishes to you all,
Lesley Ann
Kate, I do not wear a bra unless I am 100% enfemme. Now, I do wear camisoles, full slips and chemises (tucked into my pants) in male mode 3-4 days a week. I am very conscience about the strap outlines showing through my shirts. Generally I will not wear anything with a spegetti strap under a shirt. So I have not had any problems.... Yet.
This is the point of Andrea's that I particularly side with. Kate's question includes an example about why one should consider the ramifications of such presentation, assuming this is really the reason she was laid off as is implied. Not my cup 'o tea but if one prefers to underdress, terrific for them. However, flaunting something detectable like a bra or visible like exposed polished toes, girl jeans or whatever and there shouldn't be any surprise as to the consequences.
Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)
I knew that my question would be interpreted as a veiled insult to some, and that's too bad. I do not, in fact, see gender as a binary thing at all, I see it as a spectrum. I simply wanted to know more about the gray areas, because I understand the edges (male and female expression) well. I don't understand the in-between areas, and I took the opportunity to ask.
Asking why someone does a thing does not imply a stealth set up to an attack
That would be the very last thing I would want to do. I prefer deeper conversations, and those seem relatively rare around here. I'm tired of the "What kind of pantyhose do you wear?" and "Do you get a thrill out of wearing panties?" questions, frankly.
Perhaps I will take Lesley Ann's rather abrupt remark to heart and start a thread on the subject. My intent was not to "hijack" a thread, as you put it, but I can see how that could be perceived as such. My apologies to Kate.
Last edited by Alex!; 07-30-2008 at 09:41 AM.
I started this thread because CD Susan said in another thread that he wears bras in guy mode so I wondered what the experiences were with doing that.
Wore it once to work, it was wintertime, and I had a heavy woolen sweater. A colleague gave me a friendly chuck on the shoulder, and I was petrified with fear that he would feel it under my male clothes.
Andrea
I think you said it your post, You dont want to feel any less than a man when you are in public as a guy, for me, I would like to be a fulltime gal. I feel I have lost valuable time in the past hiding my fem feelings so I like having womens clothes on as often as I can.
I make sure my bra is not seen and i try to wear a more unisex pants, and my shirts i wear to work are polo style, that even a woman might wear.
If someone were to find out I wear a bra and want to ask me about it , i will tell them, so far it hasnt happened, though a gay friend who i worked with told me a guy had noticed it and asked him about it. he told to go ask me, and of course he didnt.
So i guess that is my explanation, and I hope you understand it. From what you have said about yourself, your crossdressing is more to create an illusion of femaleness, and you are are awesome at it. You are an artist, I am a tgirl, for lack of better word, I feel weird not wearing female clothes in public
hope that helps
If you wear heavy shirts, knit or woven, and they are baggy, people would not be able to tell. If you are really worried, a vest will really break up the look. If someone might touch your shoulder or hug you or something , a sport bra or tank top has a different outline that may be similar to a male A-shirt( wife beater). I am not working full time and can't say for sure if people notice or not.
Some days I just like to have the tight feeling. It seems to be more of aneed if I have been wearing a bra, or the like, a lot at home recently.
When I do this it is my way of expressing myself and this is what I enjoy. My experiences have been that no one has ever commented on it. Most people who might notice this don't care about what they are seeing and won't say a word about it. If some one, especially a GG, commented on it I would respond by saying " lets talk about the underwear that you are wearing". I think that would end thier need to question what I am wearing and why. There are some of us that 'can and will' do this and there are some of us that 'can't and won't' do this. We are all inviduals and have our own way of expressing ourselves. There is no 'rule book' on crossdressing. It is all about what level you are comfortable with and your ability to act accordingly.
Thanks for the comments, and I appreciate Kate's patience with my bit here.
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