Going too far

[Jonianne]

Sometimes I worry that because of the happiness crossdressing brings to me, that in the future I might take it further than I want to go. And that would likley cause me to lose my most important relationships.

I understand that there are those who who have a real need to take it as far as possible for their own sanity, but for me, I know myself pretty well and I know that there is a fine line between experiencing a wonderful fulfilment that is truly a part of my being and risking getting caught up in a fantasy that just isn't reality for me. The pink fog can become all consuming.

I would like to hear from others on how you deal with separating a genuine need from not carrying a fantasy too far.

Sometimes when I see a female that I would like to be like, I get this feeling that resonates from my gut through my chest of a yearning to be more feminine. What I have also learned that when this feeling happens that if I wait for a while that "this too shall pass" and after a while I am back to my "normal" self.

90% of the time I am very satisfied with myself being the male that I am, but those yearnings are real when they are there.

Any thoughts?

[Sara Jessica]

Been there Jonianne and while I've pulled myself back a bit, it's a battle I continue to fight. My situation is that I was allowing the "pink fog" to push me along a road where I thought transition was a legitimate possibility. And it would have been for this girl who has known since her earliest memories that she should have been born female. However, like many others in my boat, largely due to a lack of good information when I was younger, I moved on and married the love of my life. We have wonderful children and I fully realize that transition would likely mean the utter destruction of my marriage and family as I know it, not to mention the probable effect on career, etc.

So for me, it's not so much as whether I have a genuine need, there's no question I do. But I am not willing to sacrifice my family for the sake of transition. I strive for balance in my life and do the best I can and while I have my head around things right now, I still have some really difficult days. Unfortunately, these will never completely go away.

[Jonianne]

......So for me, it's not so much as whether I have a genuine need, there's no question I do. But I am not willing to sacrifice my family for the sake of transition. I strive for balance in my life and do the best I can and while I have my head around things right now, I still have some really difficult days. Unfortunately, these will never completely go away.

Wow Sara, what strength you have! I very much admire your commitment. We are all here together in support of each other no matter which path we choose.

[Carol A]

Joni,

How far is to far?, I think that is up to you. As for me I have been dressing since I was 14 and am happy in both fem and drab ( well not entirely true). Do I want to date and be with a man? NO!
My only goal is to live full time as a CDer , but the wife saids NO to that. So I guess unless something bad happens I will be content as to where I am.

PS been married to her for 45 years

[Maria2222]

Hi Jonianne,
That's a tough question to answer because I've found that being a CD can insinuate into all parts of your life without an effort on your part.
For me, going to far is being obvious in public, although I do some small things like trimming my eyebrows and wearing a little scent, and trimming my arm and leg hair in the summer, shaving it in the winter.
Must importantly, I need to balance my wishes with my wife's wishes. I love my wife very much and don't want to lose her.
The bottom line, I'm a closet CD who buys lots of clothes and things and has the freedom to dress at home when my wife is there, although I keep to another part of the house while doing this.
I'm content. I'm sure it's quite a different situation for many others.

[Sarah...]

I would like to hear from others on how you deal with separating a genuine need from not carrying a fantasy too far.

Well, for the first 20+ years after realising I had a genuine need to be female, I separated this need from any potential fantasies going too far by steadfastly refusing to acknowledge it at all. Completely and utterly. Because I didn't trust myself not to go too far. I mean, I had already made a doctor's appointment which I decided was utter fantasy and so I never went. All this did was make me seriously unhappy. In fact the fantasy ended up going too far the other way because I "lost" a crucial part of my personality for too long. I immersed myself in the masculine part of me (or what I stupidly believed to be the masculine part of me) so much that I became incomplete as a person. This impacted on all my relationships and was such incredibly hard work to maintain.

Nevertheless I met and married the love of my life. And we are still very much together I'm happy to say.

For some years now the real me has gradually been coming back and I've started trusting myself to be myself. I've slowly discarded the fantasy that my stunted personality was all this time. Which means I don't often seem to succumb to pink fogginess. With an understanding, accepting and contributing SO who is also my best friend I have someone who can let me be me but who can also point out when something I'm doing or saying might impact on our life and that of our kids. She's a pink fog filter!! But she is also the one who supports me and encourages me most.

So, I guess trusting myself is the first way of dealing with the potential of things going to far. The second way is trusting others, those who know about me and who I would trust with my life.

Does that help at all?

Sarah...

[Jonianne]

.......How far is to far?, I think that is up to you. .......My only goal is to live full time as a CDer , but the wife saids NO to that.........PS been married to her for 45 years

Hi Carol,

I do believe Love sometimes causes us to sacrifice some things that are important to us. Congratulations on your 45 years! You must have a lot of wisdom! Thanks.

Hi Jonianne,
That's a tough question to answer because I've found that being a CD can insinuate into all parts of your life without an effort on your part. .......Most importantly, I need to balance my wishes with my wife's wishes. I love my wife very much and don't want to lose her.
The bottom line, I'm a closet CD who buys lots of clothes and things and has the freedom to dress at home when my wife is there, although I keep to another part of the house while doing this.
I'm content. I'm sure it's quite a different situation for many others.

Hi Maria,

Yes, it certainly does affect all parts of my life. I guess thats why it can be a little scary at times because we are so aware of our gender - both of them. I think it is because of our desire to be in a loving relationship that we are willing to set some of the CD aside in order to maintain that relationship. I know I am.

Well, for the first 20+ years after realising I had a genuine need to be female, I separated this need from any potential fantasies going too far by steadfastly refusing to acknowledge it at all. Completely and utterly. Because I didn't trust myself not to go too far. I mean, I had already made a doctor's appointment which I decided was utter fantasy and so I never went. All this did was make me seriously unhappy. In fact the fantasy ended up going too far the other way because I "lost" a crucial part of my personality for too long. I immersed myself in the masculine part of me (or what I stupidly believed to be the masculine part of me) so much that I became incomplete as a person. This impacted on all my relationships and was such incredibly hard work to maintain.

Hi Sarah,

I definately learned that ignoring or trying to fight and struggle against my femme self was making me horribly unhappy as well. Going the opposite way from our femme self also permiates all of our being and causes major problems in our relationships.

Nevertheless I met and married the love of my life. And we are still very much together I'm happy to say.

For some years now the real me has gradually been coming back and I've started trusting myself to be myself. I've slowly discarded the fantasy that my stunted personality was all this time. Which means I don't often seem to succumb to pink fogginess. With an understanding, accepting and contributing SO who is also my best friend I have someone who can let me be me but who can also point out when something I'm doing or saying might impact on our life and that of our kids. She's a pink fog filter!! But she is also the one who supports me and encourages me most.

So, I guess trusting myself is the first way of dealing with the potential of things going to far. The second way is trusting others, those who know about me and who I would trust with my life.

Does that help at all?

Sarah...

I love your summary. Learning to trust myself and those I have confidence in has also been a major part of my "recovery".

Thank you all for your responses.

[Nicki B]

Sometimes I worry that because of the happiness crossdressing brings to me, that in the future I might take it further than I want to go.

The fact that you're worried about it, says to me that you won't? It's when the pink mist descends and you can't see any other alternatives, you need to be worried - you can and will find a happy medium?

[AnnaMaria]

Jonianne,

I have to agree with nikki on this one. I really don't think that you will ever take things to far simply because you are mindful of what is going on and what the big picture can mean if it is not controlled.

Like quite a few of the other girls here I have a son who at this point would not be able to understand if I decided to transition right now and until about a month ago I had a wife who would have I am sure left me if I had decided to take such a step.

Of course since our split I am sure that I have become more fem than I was when we were living together simply because I live alone and I don't have to worry about someone walking in on me. So you might say that the pink fog does have a hold of me just a little but I know when to say when and that is all it takes.

Huggs

Anna

[darla_g]

its tough if you really want to push the limits sometimes. The two things i can think of is tweezing my brows to a feminine shape and secondly keeping fingernails a little longer.

I still want to be able to work and treated normally so i do have to watch myself.

I will hear it from my wife if she thinks i went too far and now i hear it from my teenage daughter. I haven't confirmed it but i am sure she has suspicions.

[Jonianne]

The fact that you're worried about it, says to me that you won't? It's when the pink mist descends and you can't see any other alternatives, you need to be worried - you can and will find a happy medium?

Thank you Nicki,

The pink fog doesn't roll in as often or as thick as it used to. After I first truly accepted my femme self when I first started therapy in the mid 90's, all I could think about was CD'ing day in and day out. In time that settled down and the fog only rolls in on occasion (such as when I joined this forum) and I usually don't even think about the CD until I get back here on the forum.

I have to agree with nikki on this one. I really don't think that you will ever take things to far simply because you are mindful of what is going on and what the big picture can mean if it is not controlled.

Hi Anna, Yes, I do always try to keep the big picture in view, but it sure is difficult to have to suppress your real self most of the time.

Like quite a few of the other girls here I have a son who at this point would not be able to understand if I decided to transition right now and until about a month ago I had a wife who would have I am sure left me if I had decided to take such a step.

I have family and friends in my life that I need to maintain being the male figure in their life. That very much gives me the strength to keep a lot of stuff held in. Thats sad, but that is life I guess.

Of course since our split I am sure that I have become more fem than I was when we were living together simply because I live alone and I don't have to worry about someone walking in on me. So you might say that the pink fog does have a hold of me just a little but I know when to say when and that is all it takes.

Huggs

Anna

Anna, I'm sorry to hear about your split. I went through that myself with my first wife.

its tough if you really want to push the limits sometimes. The two things i can think of is tweezing my brows to a feminine shape and secondly keeping fingernails a little longer.

I still want to be able to work and treated normally so i do have to watch myself.

Hi Darla, I also do little things like that. And I want to maintain my work relationships.

I will hear it from my wife if she thinks i went too far and now i hear it from my teenage daughter. I haven't confirmed it but i am sure she has suspicions.

I always worry about that with my wife. She is supportive, but I still am very much on pins and needles with her about it. She still very much struggles with accepting that part of me. I'm sure she is afraid I might go too far as well.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. Thats why I love this forum.

Hugs to all!

Joni

[Katheryn]

I would like to hear from others on how you deal with separating a genuine need from not carrying a fantasy too far.
If I wait for a while that "this too shall pass" and after a while I am back to my "normal" self.

Joni, I think the key to your statement is the use of different words in the first above quoted statement. What you need to do is sit down and decide where need ends and fantasy begins.

I think every CD has at one time fantasized about what it would be like to have something rather different between their legs than what nature gave them. This is, indeed fantasy for a CD, or else we'd be TS. IMHO every CD is a part time girl.

90% of the time I am very satisfied with myself being the male that I am, but those yearnings are real when they are there.
Any thoughts?

Now that's exactly what I meant, most CD's don't, IMHO, hate their male selves, but they acknowlege that their female selves need recognition and an actual outlet. Kate gets quite cranky if she doesn't get some outlet (dressing time) and it sours the boy's personality. Learned that painful lesson in a hard way some years ago. Part of that lesson was learning how much dressing time Kate needed to be content to let the boy be.

Every CD I know IRL has a different dressing need, a different comfort level and probably different motivations. Something in our past, either biological or environmental or Goddess knows what caused us to end up this way. I tried bricking Kate up into a room in my head and saying Rest In Peace, but she didn't and I couldn't, so I tore the brick wall down and let her our after over 10 years of her pacing back and forth in her mental cell.

It was a time of experimenting on just how much Kate needed to be happy. And I find even then that it changes. But the key is to realize that a CD is a part time girl, she doesn't live the role 24/7 in my dictionary of what a CD is. To me, IMHO, a non-op TS is a TV, a TS is headed to GRS and a CD is someone who periodically dresses, even if the periodic dressing time is more than the en drab time. (remember, these definitions are those of the host, guests and callers, and not necessarily those of the management.... <giggle>)

What I'm saying here is that MY level of need and what amount of dressing time Kate needs is going to be different from that which others need. But it doesn't make either of us wrong, it makes us different, and differences make the world interesting. Imagine how boring the world would be if everyone was the same.

Sadly, too many people try to apply their levels of need to others, and that mostly doesn't work. What works for me and my SO may not work for others, so it isn't "right", it's merely "right for us", which is quite a different thing.

Best of luck and happiness,
K

[Jonianne]

.......What you need to do is sit down and decide where need ends and fantasy begins..... I think every CD has at one time fantasized about what it would be like to have something rather different between their legs than what nature gave them. This is, indeed fantasy for a CD, or else we'd be TS. IMHO every CD is a part time girl.

Hi "K", Being a person who doesn't feel totaly comfortable in either end of the spectrum, but more comfortable toward the middle, I am always trying to find where to anchor myself. Funny thing, the anchor drifts sometimes too.

It is so hard to try to classify myself. I always felt and viewed myself as a male (not a macho one), but I've always considered myself to have a female spirit. I'm not sure how to define that. I've always gravitated toward the feminine personality, but not so much the girly stuff. I like being feminine, but I don't like being effiminate, if that makes any sense. If I were born female, I would want to be somewhat of a tomboy. In my next life, that will be my first request!

.......most CD's don't, IMHO, hate their male selves, but they acknowlege that their female selves need recognition and an actual outlet. Kate gets quite cranky if she doesn't get some outlet (dressing time) and it sours the boy's personality. Learned that painful lesson in a hard way some years ago. Part of that lesson was learning how much dressing time Kate needed to be content to let the boy be.

A very good way to put it. Thank you Katheryn for your sharing.

Joni

[Raychel]

How far is to Far? When will it all end? Very valid questions.

For me if it wasn't for the restrictions of family life I would bet that I would be dressed most of the time. Would I be happy with that? Who really knows. Would I be looking for more then? maybe. SO fortunatly for me there are my wife and kids here to keep the reigns on. My wife has no desire to see me dressed. And although I suspect that my kids know. They will never see me in anything other then mens clothes.

How would I control it if they weren't here? I am not real sure. But I do know that it would be VERY difficult.

I will be watching this thread. Just looking for that magic bullet answer.

[Katheryn]

It is so hard to try to classify myself.

I've always looked at classifications like labels, they're limiting. A label, or classification, says "this item is this, not that" and that implies limits. I think humans are unlimited in a lot of ways and to impose limits is not a good thing. Of course, self applied labels are always subject to change. They're more like post it notes and less like embossed in steel tags.

I always felt and viewed myself as a male (not a macho one), but I've always considered myself to have a female spirit. I'm not sure how to define that. I've always gravitated toward the feminine personality, but not so much the girly stuff. I like being feminine, but I don't like being effiminate, if that makes any sense.

It does, as the feminine mindset is greatly different from the male mindset and I found myself so out of sync with my male friends growing up and never understood why. Now, of course, I see it clearly. Kate's influence on the boy, don't you know.

I wouldn't worry so much about classification and more about what path is your path to happiness. Yes, everyone's is different and sadly not everyone realizes that, they try to take another's path and don't find happiness and they wonder why. The answer is that it isn't their own path that they are following. Including someone in that journey can make a lot of hard things easier, and gives you company in the trip. It's very lonely in the closet and when I was dealing with this there was no internet.

Yeah, okay, Kate's an old broad.....


K

[Jennifer in CO]

To Far?...The very short version of a very long story is I transitioned in 1978 (non-op) then came back in 1985/86 at the request of my then (and still) wife. In the beginning it was fun, then it became an ordeal, then hell, then life as "normal" for 4 years living on the other side, then an ordeal, then life as "normal" back on this side. (at least no hell on the return)

..its a long story

Jenn

[tamarav]

[SIZE=4]For me going too far is a strange concept. Since I dress every day and work in a beauty salon as Tami I feel I am as close to "too far" as I am going to get. Would I like to go further? I don't think any of us have to actually be asked that question because the fantasy that I hear and read the most is being a woman full time. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Reality comes back to us in the form of a long term relationship with a loving partner, other obligations and promises. Thas seems to hold most of in check to prevent us for taking the steps that would be thought of as going "too far".[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I am currently at my peak, I could go farther but will not. I am living what many of you call a dream as it is and am blessed to be able to pull off what I can.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Your sis,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Tami[/SIZE]

[Angie G]

Joni when I was younger and if I hadn't meet my wife I think I would have liked to take this thing as far as I possibly Maybe even all the way to being a woman. when I came out to me wife and she accepted me It started with just skirts then pantie. and so on. When I started to slip into that pink fog I started thing big again. Clearly moving to fast. with a little slap from my wife that brought me back yo reality I settled down to where I'm at now I fully dress 5 day a week give my wife some time with her man. And doing quite well whereI at now. But I do daydream now and then It just can't be helped.
Angie

[Holly]

Joni, there is nothing wrong with a good daydream every now and then. Who hasn't at one time or another wondered what life would have been like if they had married Sally (or Bill) instead? Or pursued a different career? Or really skydived just once? I'd say it is a good sign that you are even asking the question, "How far is too far?" Here is the bottom line, Joni... it's your life and you get to draw the line. What is good and firmly in place today, can change tomorrow. It doesn't mean that it's wrong. Life is a living experience and all living things grow and go through changes. If we don't, we are probably dead and just haven't had the sense to lay down. In any case, your heart will always tell you the right thing to do.

[Jonianne]

For me if it wasn't for the restrictions of family life.......SO fortunatly for me there are my wife and kids here to keep the reigns on.

.......everyone's (path to happiness) is different and sadly not everyone realizes that, they try to take another's path and don't find happiness and they wonder why.........Including someone in that journey can make a lot of hard things easier, and gives you company in the trip. It's very lonely in the closet.....K

To Far?...The very short version of a very long story is I transitioned in 1978 (non-op) then came back in 1985/86 at the request of my then (and still) wife.......Jenn

[SIZE=4]Reality comes back to us in the form of a long term relationship with a loving partner, other obligations and promises. Thas seems to hold most of in check to prevent us for taking the steps that would be thought of as going "too far".[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]

.......when I came out to me wife and she accepted me It started with just skirts then pantie. and so on. When I started to slip into that pink fog I started thing big again. Clearly moving to fast. with a little slap from my wife that brought me back yo reality I settled down to where I'm at now.......And doing quite well whereI at now........
Angie

.......I'd say it is a good sign that you are even asking the question, "How far is too far?" Here is the bottom line, Joni... it's your life and you get to draw the line.......In any case, your heart will always tell you the right thing to do.

Thank you all so much for your responses. It's easy to see a distinct pattern.

I think Sara summed it up in one of the first posts:

So, I guess trusting myself is the first way of dealing with the potential of things going to far. The second way is trusting others, those who know about me and who I would trust with my life.

1. Trusting myself, by following my own heart and knowing I am the one that makes my own decisions and accepts the consequences thereof.

2. Trusting and respecting those that we are in relationship with and have confidence in.

Thank you all so much for your wonderful advice and input.

Love

Joni

[Jilmac]

Joni, I know all too well the grip the pink fog has over a person. Over 48 years dressing I have experienced it numerous times. Even though I was in the closet for 47 of those years, the pink fog was always present in some form. But I did manage to keep my male and female sides seperate although it wasn't always easy.

I have been a female admirer for most of my life and have observed many of the female traits I would like to emulate. I have also had many fantasies about what life would be like as a female however I never had a burning desire to transition. When I'm in male mode, I think and act like a guy but when I'm in femme mode I thoroughly enjoy my feminine side.

[imarocker2]

I am all too familiar with the pink fog. My wife and I have been apart for over two years now and it has allowed me ample time to dress in the evenings and on the weekends. The longer I am alone, the more the pink fog creeps in. The only things stopping me from going to a gender therapist with the ultimate goal of transitioning are our little girl, who needs her father and the amount of money it would take to make this happen correctly.

I completely understand those feelings of being dressed and the feeling of being completely relaxed and finally comfotrable. Then reality sets in the next morning when I take off my nightie and get in the shower to get ready for work. It is truly a sad feeling that I am usually able to put behind me when I get my day started. It's those long nights alone when there is too much time to think that can be maddening.

Life can be very unfair.

[Mirani]

"Sometimes when I see a female that I would like to be like, I get this feeling that resonates from my gut through my chest of a yearning to be more feminine. What I have also learned that when this feeling happens that if I wait for a while that "this too shall pass" and after a while I am back to my "normal" self.

90% of the time I am very satisfied with myself being the male that I am, but those yearnings are real when they are there."

Well - all I can say is that you have articulated my thoughts - I couldn't have said it better.
Some months ago I started a relationship with someone I had known for some years. She knew of my dressing for a while (she had seen me out and recognised my voice, but neve said anything).
Anyway, as a result of a relationship where my partner encourages, supports and enjoys my femininity - I am living my fantasy. I never believed it would happen, but it has. I have never felt better.
Mirani lives!
However, for the preceding years to this relatuionship, I kept things "in balance" (or so I thought)>
All the best.

[renee k]

Been there Jonianne and while I've pulled myself back a bit, it's a battle I continue to fight. My situation is that I was allowing the "pink fog" to push me along a road where I thought transition was a legitimate possibility. And it would have been for this girl who has known since her earliest memories that she should have been born female. However, like many others in my boat, largely due to a lack of good information when I was younger, I moved on and married the love of my life. We have wonderful children and I fully realize that transition would likely mean the utter destruction of my marriage and family as I know it, not to mention the probable effect on career, etc.

So for me, it's not so much as whether I have a genuine need, there's no question I do. But I am not willing to sacrifice my family for the sake of transition. I strive for balance in my life and do the best I can and while I have my head around things right now, I still have some really difficult days. Unfortunately, these will never completely go away.

Hi Joianne,

I feel the same way that Sara Jessica feels. Although I lost a marriage. We still had two wonderful children, and to put this, ( crossdressing and transitioning ) on their plates is in my view, being self centered and selfish. And right now their the only family I have. Not to mention my career which I value right next to my family. So I've gone about as far with this as I possibly can. Hind sight is always twenty twenty. And that being said and not bringing two children into world. I would have probably transitioned when I was young. But back then with the lack of information and support, plus good helping of peer pressure. I married and did what was expected of me. Believe me I have no regrets now and have lived a very fulfilling life. It's a fork in the road of life that I chose to take, and I don't intend to look back.
Just make the best of what I have.

Huggs, Renee

[docrobbysherry]

I find the fog confounding so far. As a relative newbie CD, I don't think I have a desire to make CDing my life style. I'm fine in the closet.

Yet my fantasy of becoming a more convincing looking woman, and worse, to portray the different appearances that woman present, is overwhelming my thots! The fact that I know it's all a fantasy, doesn't reduce my preoccupation with dressing. If anything, it's making it stronger.

Because I realize it is all a fantasy, I know I can give it up anytime I want to, rite?
RITE?
RITE?