The Public Perception

[Veronica27]

As an almost lifelong crossdresser (I began about age 12), one of the most difficult hurdles I have faced in learning self-acceptance has been the possible correlation between crossdressing and a number of other things. The obvious false conclusions drawn by much of the public are that we must be either gay or want to become women. While this is the case for some, it is not for a majority of crossdressers. While I did not feel that either of these applied to myself, nonetheless, it created doubts and confusion in my mind during my teen years.

As I gained confidence in who I was in terms of my sexuality and gender, other considerations began to cloud my perception and inhibit my enjoyment of my crossdressing nature. These included things like sexism, harrassment, exhibitionism and perversion. By crossdressing, was I guilty of such things. Let me explain:

Men dress primarily for comfort and practicality. While this is also true to a large extent for women, there is also a much greater degree of sexuality involved in female clothing. High heels, makeup, cleavage, and other provocative elements are all designed to improve the sexual attraction of the female. By copying these fashions, are we becomming overly consumed with the sexual portrayal of the female, and thus guilty of a form of sexism?

When we wear such fashions openly, and around women, is there an element of harrassment, because of the sexual nature of what we are wearing. A simple joke or comment about appearance can be misinterpreted in this day and age. What about assuming the figure, (particularly the breasts) and provocative attire of the female, when we are obviously male?

Exhibitionism is not considered acceptable by society and when it involves elements of sex, nudity etc. is considered a criminal offence. Are we a sort of exhibitionist when we portray the female in such a manner?

There are many definitions of perversion including this from Webster: "any of several sexual practices that are regarded as abnormal" Considering the fact that there is a sexual component involved (dressing as the opposite sex) and that it is not the "norm" in our society, is there an element of perversion?

I ask these questions, not because I believe that these situations apply to any of us, but that the perception of them being the case probably has a lot to do with society's reluctance to accept us for who we are. When I read this and other forums, I often get the feeling that because we have been able to accept and understand ourselves, we have lost sight of the way others might see us, given their upbringing and their own personal feelings. When we say "it's their problem and not ours", or "you get to know who your real friends are", and insist on our right to crossdress whenever and wherever we choose, we may be satisfying our own needs, but are we promoting understanding and acceptance. Only by facing up to the "reasons" and eliminating them from the public's mind through education can that be achieved.

What are your thoughts?

Sorry for the length

Veronica

[Patti Remick]

Im sorry but I do NOT agree

Men dress primarily for comfort and practicality. While this is also true to a large extent for women, there is also a much greater degree of sexuality involved in female clothing. High heels, makeup, cleavage, and other provocative elements are all designed to improve the sexual attraction of the female.

This is a misogynistic attitude. You've been conditioned to look at women primarily as sexual objects which is a clear display of misogynistic thinking.

High heels, makeup, cleavage, are all designed to improve the...

...self esteem of some women who feel better about themselves if they have/wear these. No different that a man wanting more muscle. Self image, plain and simple - whether you want bigger breasts or a smaller nose (like I do).

Luv and hugs,
Patti Remick

[Sam44]

One of my daughters seemed to know how to apply (or not apply as the case may be) makeup from the get go. She always looked good and had good taste. My other daughter went thru an awkward three or four years, starting with denial of needing to wear a bra thru the horribly overdone makeup, awkward walking when in anything but tennis shoes, scraggly hair, not enough showers, the whole nine yards.

As I look at many newer crossdressers (myself included) I'm reminded of my second daughter. I think it takes time to learn how to dress well (or at least to the level we choose to dress.)

I still don't dress to my age, I'm more like a teenager in my experience dressing as a woman (not that that's an excuse

FWIW when I dress appropriate for my age, body build, etc. I push less of my wife's buttons and she doesn't even notice that I'm "dressed". We go to stores, do our normal shopping, etc.. If I'm too far out there she's a lot less comfortable and I often volunteer to stay in the car. You'd think I'd learn

[Kayla Shadows]

When we say "it's their problem and not ours", or "you get to know who your real friends are", and insist on our right to crossdress whenever and wherever we choose, we may be satisfying our own needs, but are we promoting understanding and acceptance.

When you are out in the world and people see you,with that alone,you are a symbol of change.If you interact with them and change one mind,your doing something.Some people refuse to accept and theres nothing we can.

By copying these fashions, are we becomming overly consumed with the sexual portrayal of the female, and thus guilty of a form of sexism?

If there are GG's who dress like this then theres going to be crossdressers.Nothing wrong with dressing how you want.

What about assuming the figure, (particularly the breasts) and provocative attire of the female, when we are obviously male?

If your going to present as female then you may as well present as female.

Are we a sort of exhibitionist when we portray the female in such a manner?

Depends on the individual.Yeah if you are actually exposing private parts with intent and need to expose yourself.If a GG dresses in a way that some people would call it "provocative",I dont call it being a exhibitionist.That would be wrong.They are two different things.

Considering the fact that there is a sexual component involved (dressing as the opposite sex) and that it is not the "norm" in our society, is there an element of perversion?

There is always going to be someone who thinks were perverted.I dont see it as that way and know many people who dont as well.

The act of dressing as the opposite sex and having a sexual component included is not all of us.

[Wen4cd]

...considerations began to cloud my perception and inhibit my enjoyment of my crossdressing...

There you go. "Consider" less, and you will enjoy more. Consider only how you treat others you encounter in this world, and you will be better off.

Over-analytic crossdressers are depressed and bitter ones, whether analyzing themselves or 'society.' You're only oppressing yourself.

"Facing the reasons" is a trap. It's the opposite of self-acceptance IMO. It's self-injury in the end. Do you want to cure yourself of something you enjoy? You love misery? Then "face teh reasons." Be ready for fun labels like "self-obsession" and "narcissism" and other things that will surely make you feel great about yourself.

Or else, just try to enjoy your life and treat people decently while you still have some life left?

It may not be that way with everyone, but I think a lot of cross-dressers just need to do less thinking and more enjoying, and that attitude itself will work to heal a lot of the problems we sit here worrying about.

[Veronica27]

There you go. "Consider" less, and you will enjoy more. Consider only how you treat others you encounter in this world, and you will be better off.

Over-analytic crossdressers are depressed and bitter ones, whether analyzing themselves or 'society.' You're only oppressing yourself.

"Facing the reasons" is a trap. It's the opposite of self-acceptance IMO. It's self-injury in the end. Do you want to cure yourself of something you enjoy? You love misery? Then "face teh reasons." Be ready for fun labels like "self-obsession" and "narcissism" and other things that will surely make you feel great about yourself.

Or else, just try to enjoy your life and treat people decently while you still have some life left?

It may not be that way with everyone, but I think a lot of cross-dressers just need to do less thinking and more enjoying, and that attitude itself will work to heal a lot of the problems we sit here worrying about.

I fully agree with you that we need to enjoy ourselves while we still have the opportunity. As a 69 year old crossdresser, my experiences go way back beyond the era of support groups, internet forums, television talk shows and so on. In those days you felt that you were the only person in the world with this desire, and there was no where that you could seek information, and no one to talk to. All you knew was that you did not observe anyone else doing such things, and therefore you must be some sort of freak.

The need to ponder the mysteries of life, is a part of who I am as much as the need to crossdress. Seeking answers to the mystery of the crossdressing compulsion, is what enabled me to accept myself and avoid depression. I accomplished this long before discovering the internet and all its resources.

This thread was in response to all the postings I have been reading lately about the fear that many have about coming out, being discovered and the overall lack of understanding that exists in society. My desire to understand things led me to ponder the role that some of my own earlier concerns might play in keeping the public from understanding and accepting us. If this is the case, perhaps our efforts should be more concentrated toward correcting such misconceptions. It is easier to deal with the lack of acceptance if we understand where it is coming from.

Veronica

[Karren H]

Hell I'm an engineer and can't even pronounce half of those words let along know what they mean.. Lol. And obviously in my simple mind................. I just like to look pretty... And what the public's perception of me is... I could really care less... Life's to short to get hung up on what other people think or don't think...

I'll be at the mall if you need me to explain further!!

[Veronica27]

But to come back to Veronica's original questions, which I'd summarise like this:

"If we dress up sexy, are we just showing off? Is this insulting to women? Is it a perversion?"

I'd make a distinction between sexual and sexy. Of course what we wear is sexual, that's what cross-dressing means. If you're not wearing at least breast forms, girly shoes, a wig and a skirt then you're hardly a cross-dresser at all. My apologies to those who only ever wear panties (like me at this minute) but bear with me.

Essentially, cross-dressing is trying to copy some of the secondary sexual characteristics of women -- their figure, their hair, their skin, their voice. You can do this discreetly or you can go over the top, either because you're not very good at it or because you damn well like it that way.

(Of course this is something that women do too. Women's style choices run all the way from Queen Elizabeth II to Dolly Parton. Women have that choice, and I don't agree with those feminists and/or religious fundamentalists who claim that other women shouldn't choose sexy clothing if they want to.)

But our problem is that if we copy the Dolly-Parton end of the spectrum, particularly on a Tuesday morning at the supermarket, we can easily be suspected of sexual stereotyping. "You think all women are like that!" they shout at us. Well, is it true? Search your conscience!

Finally, is all this a perversion? I wouldn't trust a dictionary to answer this question. I wouldn't even trust a psychologist.

The only person who can say this is a perversion is a clergyman, because 99% of the time the word "perversion" really means nothing more than "something that other people enjoy but I disapprove of". I personally think that eating fried liver is a perversion, so what? Drop the word.

Hi Katie

Thanks for the great replies in this and your previous post. You appear to have grasped fully the point of my thread, and summarized much of my thinking very precisely. I personally don't think there is anything sexist or perverse in our behaviour and I don't think there is any intention to harrass. It just concerns me that this may be the public perception of us, and thus the primary reason for their reluctance to accept.

Veronica

p.s. being retired and at home, in addition to my usual panties, I am also wearing a bra and my new pals forms under my otherwise drab exterior. Getting all dressed up to hang about the house has no more appeal to me now than it does for my wife, and yet the full expression is what my crossdressing desires are all about.

[battybattybats]

Over-analytic crossdressers are depressed and bitter ones, whether analyzing themselves or 'society.' You're only oppressing yourself.

I'm a happy optimist and I analyse everything a lot.
I post on the serious issues and wont ever stiop bringing important things to peoples attention because ignoring injustice helps injustice grow and prosper.

You can fight evil and still smile
You can ponder, philosophise search through examine and understand deeply the nature of things while still enjoying life.

Zen and Taois philosophy have great in depth explorations of the minutiae of life and how happiness can be derived from them.

[Veronica27]

Im sorry but I do NOT agree


This is a misogynistic attitude. You've been conditioned to look at women primarily as sexual objects which is a clear display of misogynistic thinking.



...self esteem of some women who feel better about themselves if they have/wear these. No different that a man wanting more muscle. Self image, plain and simple - whether you want bigger breasts or a smaller nose (like I do).

Luv and hugs,
Patti Remick

I find it strange that you would equate a genuine concern over whether our activities may be misconstrued as sexist or harrassment with misogynistic thinking. Measuring a woman's self esteem as you appear to be doing by the wearing of sexy clothing and having bigger breasts, represents sexual stereotyping and thus sexism.

My original post stated that women, like men, also dress for practicality and comfort to a large extent. I may not have worded my additional comments as clearly as I would have liked, but there is a very definite "sexy" aspect to the additional and occasional wearing of things such as high heels, and cleavage revealing tops. A part of feeling good about oneself is the sense that we are sexually appealing, among many other things. A reading of a sample of postings on this forum reveals how "sexy" crossdressers feel wearing their lingerie and walking in their hosiery and heels. In emulating the female by wearing certain items regarded as "sexy" clothing and pretending to possess a fairly major and very personal and intimate secondary sexual characteristic of the female, namely breasts, are we being guilty of sexism?

I don't believe we are, but I think it is a legitimate question to ask whether or not this is a part of the public's perception of us.

Thanks for reading and offering your comments.

Veronica

[michelle2b]

Veronica, I understand your reasoning behind your analysis and I see how cross-dressing can be interpreted that way.

The obvious false conclusions drawn by much of the public are that we must be either gay or want to become women. While this is the case for some, it is not for a majority of crossdressers.

If I may point out, there is nothing wrong even if you were gay or if you wanted to become a woman.

While I did not feel that either of these applied to myself, nonetheless, it created doubts and confusion in my mind during my teen years.

I have been through the same confusion - I felt like a woman, but have only been attracted to women. I got over the confusion when I understood that the world believes in stereotypes and stereotypes are myths meant to simplify the world for the majority so that they conform and stay within the boundaries of common knowledge and control. There are many such myths in society, not only about gender roles and dressing protocols.

Men dress primarily for comfort and practicality.

This is not a true statement for all men or for all men at all phases of their lives. Men also do dress to impress, at least at some point in their lives.

there is also a much greater degree of sexuality involved in female clothing.

On the average today, yes. However, this has only been true in the age of the television, and that too only in the Western societies. So this statement also is not true of all women at all places and at all times.

Also note that women do that because that has become a social custom in recent times.

High heels, makeup, cleavage, and other provocative elements are all designed to improve the sexual attraction of the female.

High-heels were first worn by men. France's King Louis XIV (1638-1715) who was only 5'3" was the first to wear high heels, and this was popularized by noble-men. The term "well-heeled" which indicates status in society comes from the tradition in which the wealthy, especially men, used to wear high heels.

The tradition died out gradually, until corporate advertising and propaganda (read about Edward Bernays) began to objectify women and depict women in "provocative" attire and accessories. Yes, advertisements did exist earlier with women in them, but those advertisements were targeted only towards women, not towards society in general. The exposed cleavage is the extreme exaggeration of this trend in which the more sexually objectified the woman appears, the more attention she gets.

Your statement about the provocative elements being designed to improve the sexual attraction of the female is a stretch. The custom of wearing these things is meant to bring attention, not sexual attraction, to the particular woman. The sexuality in the elements is reinforced through the media around us and is imprinted into the male psyche starting in early childhood. The women who wear these things are also trained by their surroundings to expect more attention if they wear these things. Women are competing for attention, and so are men. The sexuality is the influenced interpretation of that attention.

By copying these fashions, are we becomming overly consumed with the sexual portrayal of the female, and thus guilty of a form of sexism?

I would agree. However, it depends on how much of it you copy. I dress to look pretty, cute and beautiful, which is not necessarily sexy or sexual or provocative. You do not have to copy everything about the fashions that objectify women. Cute flats are equally as feminine as high heels. Light makeup is better than heavy makeup. You do not need to show any cleavage.

We do project our inner image of a woman from the way we dress up. If we dress appropriately, I do not think we are being sexist or exhibitionist.

There are many definitions of perversion including this from Webster: "any of several sexual practices that are regarded as abnormal" Considering the fact that there is a sexual component involved (dressing as the opposite sex) and that it is not the "norm" in our society, is there an element of perversion?

Again, this is a cultural thing. What would be considered normal in one culture would be considered abnormal in another. Even Memphis and San Francisco would disagree on what is culturally abnormal.

In addition, dressing as a woman does not "have to be" sexual in nature, and hence it would not be a perversion by definition. Crossdressing could merely be about self-expression with nothing sexual about it.

If you are a crossdresser, then it's just clothes and accessories we are talking about. Where's the sexual component in that? The sexual part is inside the mind, so you make crossdressing whatever your mind thinks it is. There's nothing wrong in wearing any clothes. Clothing is a man-made concept. I think we can do whatever with it we want.

the perception of them being the case probably has a lot to do with society's reluctance to accept us for who we are. When I read this and other forums, I often get the feeling that because we have been able to accept and understand ourselves, we have lost sight of the way others might see us, given their upbringing and their own personal feelings.

This is where I whole-heartedly agree with you. We have to be more open and communicative about ourselves and about what we do because the longer we are closeted, the longer we will need to stay closeted.

I also think it is important dress appropriately. If you would not let your 21-35 year old daughter (imagine you have one) wear a particular attire, then you should not wear it either.

Sorry I typed too long a message.

[Kelsy]

"Facing the reasons" is a trap. .

[SIZE="3"]I never was able to discover, let alone, face the reasons. I have realized that I just am. Happy to be me

Kelsy [/SIZE]

[Veronica27]

Veronica, I understand your reasoning behind your analysis and I see how cross-dressing can be interpreted that way.

Hi Michelle

Thank you for a such a well thought out reply. I agree with pretty much everything you said. In attempting to get to my primary point, I had to explain where my reasoning was coming from, but needed to do so as concisely as possible to avoid boring everyone. Thus I used phrases such as "men usually dress" and "greater degree of sexuality" to show that my examples were not always the case, but indicated a generality in that direction. In prior eras for instance, men were certainly much more of a peacock than were women.

My concern is over what others think about us, as their confusion is at the heart of most of our problems over coming out and being able to live our lives as we would like. Many state that it doesn't matter what others think, "it is their problem" and we should ignore them and just "do our thing". While this in your face response might increase the awareness of our existence and achieve some level of tolerance, it does little to promote understanding and thus genuine acceptance. I offered what I thought were some of the public opinions about us, and how they might have arrived at them, in the hope that by knowing these concerns we can find ways to overcome them through education. I closed by asking for everyone's thoughts.

Thanks again for your contribution to this thread.

Veronica

[Miss Tessa]

My mom is such a person who does not understand well. I have to explain everything to her.

I was at the store wearing tight girl's bluejeans and a regular top and minimal makeup and a ponytail and she said, "Why do you wanna dress so sexy?"

I was like, "If you think that's what's considered 'sexy' then what is average?"

I was just dressed like a normal girl my age.

[obsessedwithpantyhose]

we are all HUMAN BEINGS.....

F... lables.....

when i dress its how i want to dress,,,,,if a female was to be out dressed the way i dress she would be picked up for solicitation

a skirt can NEVER be to short

[sherib]

Public Perception is that all crossdressers are homosexuals. If a crossdresser goes out in public dressed completely inapropriate for the occasion they make all cross dressers look bad. Most people see crossdressers are theones that appear on jerry Springer show or hoe the movies perceived who cross dressers are like.
I am not an exibitionist. I love the female body. I want to and try to emulate what I see an how I feel. I cannot pass in public therefore you won't see me out there. Any crossdress that is out own all of us the obligation to be the best they can be.

[Nicki B]

...there is also a much greater degree of sexuality involved in female clothing. High heels, makeup, cleavage, and other provocative elements are all designed to improve the sexual attraction of the female. By copying these fashions, are we becomming overly consumed with the sexual portrayal of the female, and thus guilty of a form of sexism?

By the same logic, are genetic women who show off their cleavage, wear high heels, etc, guilty of sexism, then??

[Gabrielle]

[SIZE=2]Everything is always the same.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Everyone is always trying to organize everything into something.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]I know I'm repeating myself, but can people just stop labeling and just accept people for who they are![/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]If you are 103 and want to wear a miniskirt, or a GG who wants to grow a mustache, or a GM who wants to wear heels. Why should you be mocked/beat up/ridiculed because of it???[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]I am finding myself growing old and bitter because of this Sociatal bullying.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Please make it stop![/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]