I have to agree with most of us here in the USA and prefer the term cd. Tranvestite is somewhat outdated here and has such sexual and medical connotations attached to it. I some times refer to myself and others as a tgirl and find that acceptable too.
Those people are still around. They're called Fundamentalists.Originally Posted by battybattybats
Those people are still around. They're called Tri-Ess.
A dear friend of mine was the subject of a hat crime. It was brutal. She can't even talk about it. Those wounds run deep.
Ok, shoot me down in flames:
Transexual - starts dressing before puberty - wishes to change sex - wishes to pass as a woman - hates male body
Transvestite - starts dressing during puberty - primarily sexual motive - wishes to please men
Crossdresser - starts dressing after puberty - primarily does it to relieve stress - not interested in passing
Me - started dressing before puberty - not sure about changing sex - don't worry about passing, I know what I am - Don't hate my male body.
I like just to be called a t-girl. Nothing more, nothing less. This expression in the UK is becoming more accepted.
Have fun replying
I strut my stuff, I feel so proud,
I need to shout, to scream out loud,
I am Tricia I am she,
I am who I want to be
http://tricia-dale.blogspot.com/
I'll try!
That's a reasonable definition, but in reality M2F transexuals don't all hate their male body. I don't. I'm in good shape. I wish I could trade with a GG who has also taken care of her body.
First we'd have to agree that transvestites were sexually motivated. That's the way I usually hear it used, but Eddie Izzard has really publicized the term and says there's nothing sexual about his transvesticism. Regardless, while a transvestite in a female role with a man makes plenty sense, there are certainly transvestite fetishists who are more interested in women or even just autoerotic activity.
There are many self-described crossdressers here who started before puberty but would still not consider themselves transsexual. And while I hear the motivation of "stress relief" mentioned a lot, I don't buy it. There are a lot of more socially acceptable ways to relieve stress.
Crossdressing and Transvestite are 2 in the same, Some here (like me) perfer the label crossdresser .. Transvestite or tranny for short ties its self to other meanings(labels) due to the name "Tranny". Trannys can also be short for Transexual which is not the same meaning for Transvestite . Most who perfer or consider themselfs as a crossdresser assume the name because it is straight forward (thats why I do) ..You dress in the clothing known to be accociated to the oppisite sex with no desires to become female.If you are a male crossdressing that is, because females can crossdress without drawing much attention these days.
Myself I like transgendered or crossdresser. Transgendered because there is a girl inside along with the boy. Crossdresser because I like to where womans clothes.
keep on gurlin everyone. paula may
Maybe if us English speakers would stop interchanging and diluting the definitions of words (especially Americans) and be a little less lazy with our language, we probably wouldn't be in these predicaments....
Restricting ourselves to the following definitions of 'sex' and 'gender'...
Sex (noun) - either the male or female division of a species, esp. as differentiated with reference to the reproductive functions.
gender (noun) - The mind's identification with either the male or female sex, particularly with concern for their culturally established roles.
...My understanding of the terms has always been the following. I'm sure I'll be wrong in some peoples' eyes, but by using these definitions I don't have any problems differentiating the little eccentricities of the broader scope of transgenderism.
Transgender: Any person who's thoughts andor behavior diverge from current social gender roles. Every following definition lies underneath this umbrella.
Transvestite: A person with the fetish that involves wearing the garments of the opposite sex for the purpose of sexual arousal and/or release.
Crossdresser: Someone who regularly wears or desires to wear the garments of the opposite sex, often because of an ultimately insuppressible urge to do so. While all transvestites are crossdressers, the opposite is not necessarily true. Be wary of attaching personal emotion to this definition, as it does not reach beyond the desire to engage in this behavior. I say this because people of like-minded emotional and sexual responses to crossdressing try to identify themselves as crossdressers to the exclusion of the other definitions.
Gender dysphoria: Internal conflict about one's gender identity. If one is happy about how they identify, then there is nothing dysphoric about him/her
Transexual: A crossdresser who's gender does not match his/her sex, causing gender dysphoria. Transexuals don't feel a sexual or emotional compulsion to wear the garments of the opposite sex. They feel they are the opposite sex and thus crossdress to at least partially satisfy the instinct to be who they are.
Drag queen: A man who dresses in womens' clothes in the context of performance and entertainment.
Language is not just a series of fads and hip catch-phrases, people! It is how we communicate, and the more we screw with it the more we screw ourselves up! Ginormous is not a $&%ing word, despite what Websters says! When you say "hopefully I'll go to the store today", do you truly intend to enter the local Safeway full of aimless hope? Not all Muslims are Arabs, and not all Arabs are Muslims.
This trend of *******ization of words and blending of meanings is not only a sign of cultural stupidity, corporate and government euphemistic substitution, and laziness, it reveals how much we let problems slide because we simply don't understand them! This is exemplified best in the climate change issue: You may care about global warming, but if you do are you trying to be "green" or do you try to live sustainably?
If you're green you probably recycle and do other fashionable environmentally conscious things, and you feel better for it. The problem is you still think like a consumer - you use paper plates, buy your jelly in a plastic squeeze bottle instead of a glass jar, and approve of Clean Coal and Biodiesel technologies that still release lots of CO2 into the atmosphere. "Save the Planet" is probably the dumbest "environmentalist" line ever concocted (see my sig). If you live sustainably then you understand that the concept of waste is a completely human invention. We are the only system in nature (yes, we are part of nature too! So is plastic and toxic waste!) that produces waste - a product of our actions that cannot be reincorporated into the cycle of use.
Sorry if all this comes across as mean, but we are fools to let our most important form of communication slide so recklessly, and it angers me. English is a difficult language, and we're just making it more difficult. Do you have any idea how much meaningless slang the average American uses? Try to notice how much you use - you'll be quite surprised (I certainly was). One other thing that gets my panties in a bunch - if you truly become offended because someone used a "naughty" word, you desperately need a reality check. If I say that something is fudging stupid, is my potentially unsettling emotion truly masked or do I just sound unconvincing, childish and euphemistic for saying "fudging"?
</rant>
Once upon a time, an American (or 'merkin') said to me "you speak really good english"You also say "jag-yoo-are" ( jaguar )
Back on topic, Right on, Batty!
Well, durrrr... maybe the clue is in where I come from!
It *is* a Jag-u-are, not a Jag-waaah. It is a British car.
Such a trivial thing, this alleged difference between the terms. One sounds so clinical, and has so much baggage with it. The other is the more accepted colloquial term in the US these days. On the whole, it matters little. Both mean the same thing, and it's not worth splitting hairs over.
Any money found in the laundry is MINE!
"This is no social crisis....this is me having fun!"
www.flickr.com/photos/tgmarla/
I agree with you. But we could start as a cd and ending up with the time as a tv.
Suzanne
do I just sound unconvincing, childish and euphemistic for saying "fudging"?
</rant>[/QUOTE]
thats not that much of a rant..and fudging ;somthing makes it sickingly sweet and ovryly candied....so (toung firmly in side of cheak ) did you suger coat the truth ? roflmao!
I found this thread late tonite and you all have said everything. I know fir a while I was confused at all the terms until I went to a gender studies seminar. I found out a tredmendous amount of info. in a nut shell if you go to websters and look of these 4 terms this is what you get.
crossdresser: one who wear clothing soticty has decided is for the oppiste gender. That means that 50 years ago all girls who wore pants were crossdressers LOL.
Transgender: to act,dress,or protray that opssite gender.
Transvestite: this one i couldnt find online anymore however in the textbook it says a old slang term given to make gay dragqueens sound bad in certain countries.
and I was told by 3 of them that transsexual is just term they give themselves once their birth certificate gets changed for gender.
I also found out that 1% of the current male population crosdress in some way. one doctor even told us that back a year ago when I took the class that 33% of congress underdress everyday. most of them where his patients lol
I also found out that about 75 to 90% of all crossdressers are thought o be married strait men. that was a little shock to me.I still don't think that is right but who am I LOL.
but like a few of you girls have said what is a label and socity only changes its veiw when the populace changes..
have a good evening everyone :-)
----------------------------------------
All that is important is that you are comfy with yourself --<<--@
Come Visit me: My FaceBook Page
I always thought that Crossdresser was more an american term and transvestite was more a european term for the same thing.....
[SIZE="3"]It doesn't really matter to me. I go by either name.
Gennee[/SIZE]
I'm getting better with age. I may have started late, but better late than never!
"Don't let anyone define who you are".
I believe transvestite and crossdresser are kind of synonomous. Trans - vest - ite really means cross dressing person.
I am a crossdresser by need and feel natural in womens clothes.
emmi
'Transvestite - starts dressing during puberty - primarily sexual motive - wishes to please men'
While I agree with the first two points where did the third one come from? I don't recall having any great desire to please men, then or now...Other than that I can see why different terms have came into use, and I suppose it's whatever you feel comfortable with. Personally I'm not sure if I feel transgendered, crossdresser still feels too vague, so I guess transvestite it is...
Hi Tanya,
I much prefer Crossdresser. It just has a nicer sound to it and is less intimidating.
Mandy,
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.
What's the difference between a transvestite and a transexual ? Two years.
MY definitions,
Crossdresser : a heterosexual male who occasionally crossdresses , is usually married or in a LTR, and often fears being associated with gays.
Transvestite : a bisexual or gay male who strives to dress, act and think like a woman and therefore logically will have sex with men in the female role.
Male to female Transexual : a male who has felt since birth that he is in the wrong gender, clothing does nothing for him , only surgery and fully transitioning into the female sex will do.
That's true on the forum here at least. After all, the name of the site is crossdressers.com.
In public I really don't hear the terms used very often at all, whether it's at work, at the mall, or at a club/bar. And the feelings I notice people associating with those terms are always very similar.
crossdresser = creepy middle-aged guy in a skirt
transvestite = creepy perverted middle-aged guy in a skirt
Tranny seems to have a better connotation. While people still often think "creepy" when they're referring to someone as a tranny, they usually use the term because they have some understanding of transsexuals.
Transsexuals make more sense to people because the motivation is simpler. A guy looks at someone they call "tranny" and thinks, "He was born a guy but wants to be a girl." It makes sense. People have much more trouble understanding the motivation of a non-transgendered crossdresser and start assuming the person is insane, a pervert, or gay.
Even if I didn't identify as TS, crossdresser just doesn't quite sit right with me. And given the public appeal of Eddie Izzard -- a self-identified transvestite who is an intelligent and funny guy who likes women, I'd actually kinda prefer it to crossdresser. Although I still think many times transvestite has more of a "pervert" connotation than crossdresser.
Yeah but do you think it accurately describes what you are? Or is that asking too much of any one word?! Although I probably should have foreseen it I didn't expect this thread to get bogged down in linguistics, semantics, semiotics whichever you preferI actually don't care whatever label other people may choose to apply to themselves or me. But personally speaking I don't feel the term crossdresser adequately covers who I am, I mean technically speaking a guy putting on a pair of panties is a crossdresser or I suppose a woman wearing a pair of boxer shorts, and seems quite prosaic. Although I suppose it works if your trying to de-mystify the process, especially for the uninitiated. Anyway, as always, to each their own I guess..
[QUOTE=Annemarie;1520475]What's the difference between a transvestite and a transexual ? Two years.
MY definitions,
Transvestite : a bisexual or gay male who strives to dress, act and think like a woman and therefore logically will have sex with men in the female role.
Ha, ha. Good joke. But on your second point I would beg to disagree...
To me, transvestite sounds like an insect, maybe because I farm. Crossdresser is a nice word which would indicate a persons need to wear the other genders cloths, bringing either their female or male side out a bit. I kind of like the term different. I'm just different.
Lanore
[SIZE="3"]Lanore[/SIZE]
When I first realized I was a CD back in the seventies and the eighties I don't beleive the lexicon of CD terms and the accompanying slang all of us in the forum use with one another had been developed quite yet. I first heard the term "crossdresser" in about 1980. This term is more polite and better useful for social and political reasons such as things like housing and job discrimination reasons and other political issues.
But about that slang and lexicon, I remember that a "dressing auntie" was the same thing as a "gg". In the general time frame of 25 years ago anybody who dressed in "ladies things" was a "TV" or a "Transvestite". As for me I dress for pleasure and excitement and I think the idea of being a "Transvestite" sounds more exciting than a "crossdresser"
In fact,it sounds like a real blast! But it does,let's face it,sound a little depraved. "Crossdresser" works much better on the national political front and I know that lots of CD's don't nescesarily think of themselves as "TVs". The entire glossary of terms used in this forum serves it's purpose well. Such as "CD',"GG',"enfem","outed". All this from a survivor of the era of the "letters to Ann Landers"
Here's my take on it and by the way, I don't really feel as though any of the terms are derogatory- or I don't take them as being that way.
This is all looking at it from the male-to-female terminology:
Crossdresser- likes to dress up in women's clothes. Likes the feel, etc, but is not desiring to pass.
Transvestite- has a touch more sexual in nature and has more of a desire to pass, go out, etc. and be perceived as a woman.
Transsexual- On hormones or is starting down that path. May have had "enhancement" surgery.
Transgendered- The umbrella term to classify all of the above.
As a close family member is a linguist I can guarantee you that there is no possibility whatsoever that language will not constantly change. It's not laziness, it's a complex set of mechanisms involving cultural distinctions, geographical and geopolitical usages, the fact that no two people ever have exactly the same inner understanding of the meaning of any two words, not even 'An' or 'That' or 'The' or 'A' no mater how standardised the dictionaries are any words meaning is essentially whatever most people use it as at any given time, subject to constant change and shift.
Sex is a really good example because 90% of the time when the word is used people mean 'coitus' or 'copulation' whcih because of peoples constant shifting euphamisms gained the term 'sex-act' which has now become 'sex'.Sex (noun) - either the male or female division of a species, esp. as differentiated with reference to the reproductive functions.
But as no two people ever use the same language precisely all communication is a rough attempt at passing precise information through vague and nebuolous assumptions of understood generalities....My understanding of the terms has always been the following. I'm sure I'll be wrong in some peoples' eyes, but by using these definitions I don't have any problems differentiating the little eccentricities of the broader scope of transgenderism.
Transgender: Any person who's thoughts andor behavior diverge from current social gender roles. Every following definition lies underneath this umbrella.
As I mentioned this meaning is culturally-specific and understanding that this is so is essential for cross-cultural communications which are everyday occurances on the net.Transvestite: A person with the fetish that involves wearing the garments of the opposite sex for the purpose of sexual arousal and/or release.
All crossdressers are transvestites if you want an unshifting language, in which case it's better to fight for reclaiming the original meaning of the word and in fact drop the much more recent 'crossdresser'.Crossdresser: Someone who regularly wears or desires to wear the garments of the opposite sex, often because of an ultimately insuppressible urge to do so. While all transvestites are crossdressers, the opposite is not necessarily true. Be wary of attaching personal emotion to this definition, as it does not reach beyond the desire to engage in this behavior. I say this because people of like-minded emotional and sexual responses to crossdressing try to identify themselves as crossdressers to the exclusion of the other definitions.
If they 'are' the self-identified sex then is it truly crossdressing? Personally these days my definition of transexual is someone who makes permanant alterations to their body to make it closer to the self-identified sex to any degree at all.Transexual: A crossdresser who's gender does not match his/her sex, causing gender dysphoria. Transexuals don't feel a sexual or emotional compulsion to wear the garments of the opposite sex. They feel they are the opposite sex and thus crossdress to at least partially satisfy the instinct to be who they are.
But many self-identified Drag Kings/Queens do so not for performance or entertainment too.Drag queen: A man who dresses in womens' clothes in the context of performance and entertainment.
etcLanguage is not just a series of fads and hip catch-phrases, people!...
I realise you feel strongly about the sbject, fair enough. But please do start to learn about the field of Linguistics, it is fascinating and you passion for words may make it very enjoyable for you. You will be astounded how much English has changed every single generation, where many phrases and words and grammatical structures have come from.
And really important to this discussion is the deliberate attempts to modify language and it's meanings. Check out psycholinguistics and Neuro Linguistic Programing as well as the many works on the political uses of language.
Not all words meanings change because of general usage but because of deliberate 'demonisation' of words for political purposes.
Cult used to mean Religion, nothing more till it became a great way to differentiate between established religions like the Catholic Cult and the Lutheran Cult by only using it for emergant religious groups and deliberatly associating it with specific dangerous and unethical practices of a small minority of these.
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