I'm outraged!

[Byllie]

I am most definitely not flamboyant. I'm also a heterosexual CD, who happens to have a nicely, close cropped beard. Somehow I do fit the model some of you are waging war against.

[Nicki B]

Marcie,

All you're showing is your belief that only a binary is possible. When you've spent more time here, perhaps you will realise gender is much more than that, and it's wrong to try and force people into boxes, just because they make you uncomfortable?


The world I live in is becoming more accepting - precisely because a brave few make themselves visible and force people to reconsider that there is more than a binary - and difference should be celebrated, not attacked?

[Kate Simmons]

Tolerance starts right here folks. If we don't have tolerance for diversity within our own community, we are no better than the society that we say has no tolerance for us. Simple as that really.

[Stargirl]

I wonder if F t M crossdressers would like being told that they are not "blending in" if they don't have facial hair. I can imagine " Mrs Grundy the punjab of correctness" trying to rake THEM over the coals as per "the RULES". I would love to sit in the saloon, and watch that discussion take flight, especially during a game of pool and a raging blizzard. Right out of a Dennis Hopper movie.

[Melinda G]

I know who he is, and regarding him, I'm going to say "no comment".

Me too.

[Joanne f]

Me too.

A man with a beard in a dress would be looked upon as just that by the public .
A man in a very short skirt would be looked upon as if they are going to do some sort of lewd act and would be frowned
upon by the general public , so who is doing more harm as far as acceptance is concerned , has to be the man in the very short skirt

[Melora]

WHY DO WE HATE???

Our species within coultures Seem to hate Thoes who do not look or act the norm of society and the "mainstreem" RELIGION of the coulture!
I think that Religion is The DOWNFALL of society!
IT has in the past even Downgrated and Persecuted the advancements of Science as well as those Who Think Differently!
DO NOT FORGET.. Religion = Government= Media = Popular Coulture! = Your environment.. Try to Change IT!

[Sandra]

I can't believe some of the posts in this thread. You are crying out for acceptance in the big wide world but you it seems that some of you can't accept each other. Just because someone doesn't conform to what you think is right doesn't give you the right to say that they are wrong or making you look foolish.

[Samantha Kelsey]

Just be what you wanna be. Everyone has a go at someone else whoever they are or what they look like, even the pope it seems!

[Intertwined]

Look what you made me do!

I shaved my mustache and gohtee off yesterday.

And its all this threads fault.

Actually I had planned, once Santa was done with his Christmas shopping I was shaving it off. This was my first honest attempt to grow facial hair.

What will be interesting, to see how it changes my attitude the next time I go out in my 50/50 feminine/masculine. (i never have tried to pass as a female)

Merry Christmas, wishing everyone a very safe and happy holiday season.

Before and after compareson.

[Samantha Kelsey]

Well, I think you look ten years younger without the facial fuzz but I may be biased as I couldn't grow a beard if I didn't shave for a year.
Merry christmas. xxxx

[Kayla_CD]

Okay, so Genderf*ck is a post modern term used for anyone who blurs gender lines in an obvious way in order to point out the absurdities of those lines. It has such a rude title because it comes from that angry part of third wave feminism: reclaiming while destroying patriarchal notions.

I'm sure the term was not meant as a slight against you or people who dress as you do, it's more meant for someone who would do that just so that people would give him dirty looks so he could confront them.

For a great example of genderf*ck in mainstream culture take a look at Peaches' album Father*****. It sat on the shelf uncensored simply due to the change from mother to father, it's still there last I saw. It also features a picture of Peaches herself wearing a false beard.

[valenstein]

Found this on a Tri-Ess website this morning and thought it was relivent.

"Individuals who dress at meetings must do so fully. Partial dressing is not acceptable. This is not crossdressing."

Luckily the chapter I was in didn't adhere to those rules. Geez, that statement probably would have kept me from ever joining.

Secondly, I don't understand the disparaging comments, especially amongst ourselves. Many GGs would find the lot of us (beard, no beard, passable, not passable) "gross". Three of the most commented on topics: 1) What word do you prefer for your identity? 2) Sexual orientation 3) Passing (or acceptance)

Anyone of these topics will get 100 different answers from as many people. It need not be your vision to accept it. When I joined this board, I saw subgroups that I initially thought were "weird", but I read and understand. As long as you're happy with yourself and not harming others, it makes sense to me. It may not be something I'm in to, but anyone who expresses their personality in the face of a society that is afraid to is okay by me.

I'm sure the domain name for:

crossdresserswhoarestraightandgooutfrequentlyandma ybetransbutonlylikeskirtsanddoafinejobifimaysaysom yself.com is wiiiide open for use.

[Stephanie Kay]

Hey, honey, do what you want, but I just get turned off by chicks with beards!! I wore a full beard for many years to try to "hide" my true self in the closet! I would NEVER even think of going out in public in women's clothes wearing a beard. Could be I was totally chicken OR it just looked so unfeminine!! Mostly it was the latter because when I finally shaved I felt so liberated that I immediately went out dressed the first night I shaved and never looked back!! Now I am having so much fun and feel so comfortable with my femininity that I wish I could afford electrolysis!! Stay hairy, if you want!!

Love,
Stephanie

[MarcieM]

Tolerance starts right here folks. If we don't have tolerance for diversity within our own community, we are no better than the society that we say has no tolerance for us. Simple as that really.

I disagree.
IMHO, it really has nothing to do with tolerance on this forum. And what do you mean we're no "better" than society? We ARE society, it's the same thing. Whatever you see in society, you will see right here.

Some of us just live within the REALITY of society as it exists, not some fantasy land that we wish for. I can assure you that you'll find zero tolerance for a bearded female wannabe in society. So why would you expect to find it here? And puleeeeze don't try using Butterfly Bill as an example. You already wore that one out.

Listen...I'm not telling anyone what to do here. If you want to grow a Rip Van Winkle beard and wear a cocktail dress, with 5 inch heels, please - go for it! But don't expect unconditional acceptance looking like that. It's simply NOT going to happen. That's not my judgment call, that's just simple REALITY.

I just think it's far past time for some people to get a dose of reality here and stop living in a fantasy land. You want tolerance? acceptance? Then IMHO,
the first step this community needs to take - is getting REAL with themselves.

Sure, I already know there will be a mad rush after this post to enlighten me or to tell me how "mean" I am. I expect that. Go for it, whatever blows your skirt up.

[Byllie]

Wowzer! This little thread I started has taken on a life of its own. Hopefully what I'm about to type will cool it down.

I understand full well that if I wear a beard and a dress in public, most others will see me as a man in a dress. In some respect that's better than okay *if* they also do not add "yuck" when they see me. BTW, I'm not currently planning to wear a beard and dress in public any time soon. Momma didn't raise an idiot, ya know.

Anyway, my main issue is with what some (not necessarily forum members) come to believe is the only acceptable expression of CDing. That is, to wear feminine clothing and attempt to look like a GG. That, folks, is not me.

Why do I like wearing feminine clothing? Because I do, simple as that. It's not because I want to look like a women, or because I'm too scared to "go all the way" and transition. I simply like the look and feel of the clothing ... sometimes.

Why do GGs wear jeans and denim shirts, or sweat suits, or other typically "male" apparel? Because they like the look and feel of the clothing. That is all I'm asking for, the right to wear maculine or feminine clothing whenever I choose to.

I have a feminine aspect that is, in my case, equal to if not a tad stronger than masculine aspect. I already feed my fem part in the things I do, and now I'd like to feed it with the clothing I wear on occasion. Of course, being a fairly intelligent ape, I realize that I cannot walk in public looking anyway I'd like without attracting stares and worse. But at TG or CD meetings, or on this forum, I would expect a tolerance, an acceptance of my feelings as a human being.

I do not wish to rain on anyone else's parade. I do not wish to be the freak that draws attaention of the wrong kind to our struggle. I just want to be able to discuss my femme wants and feelings without another CD feeling threatened by me. I see nothing wrong with someone else wishing to dress to the nines, but that's not for me. As I've written before, a comfy skirt and blouse and I'll all set. In fact, when I spent 5 weeks alone in Germany, this past summer, that's how I dressed most evenings in my studio appartment. But outside, I dressed en drab, though not macho in any way.

I hope this helps many of you see where I am coming from. There are gays who are so out there they bring shudders to the average gay, but they accept them. Same for lesbians. Let's try and do the same for our fellow CDs. Perhaps we need a thread on what sort of makeup to wear *if* you allso have a beard. Or, what sort of blouses to wear if you *choose* not to wear false breasts. Let's expand our views, our discussions, and not go down a narrowing path.

Toodles!
Byllie

[Maxi]

Stephanie Kay, speaking of chicks with beards, How many female Santas have you seen. And we let our children sit on her knee. Just food for thought.

[Nicki B]

Some of us just live within the REALITY of society as it exists, not some fantasy land that we wish for.

Marcie, do you want that reality to change, for you? You don't sound as if you do..

[Shelly Preston]

I disagree.
IMHO, it really has nothing to do with tolerance on this forum. And what do you mean we're no "better" than society? We ARE society, it's the same thing. Whatever you see in society, you will see right here.

Some of us just live within the REALITY of society as it exists, not some fantasy land that we wish for. I can assure you that you'll find zero tolerance for a bearded female wannabe in society. So why would you expect to find it here? And puleeeeze don't try using Butterfly Bill as an example. You already wore that one out.

Listen...I'm not telling anyone what to do here. If you want to grow a Rip Van Winkle beard and wear a cocktail dress, with 5 inch heels, please - go for it! But don't expect unconditional acceptance looking like that. It's simply NOT going to happen. That's not my judgment call, that's just simple REALITY.

I just think it's far past time for some people to get a dose of reality here and stop living in a fantasy land. You want tolerance? acceptance? Then IMHO,
the first step this community needs to take - is getting REAL with themselves.

Sure, I already know there will be a mad rush after this post to enlighten me or to tell me how "mean" I am. I expect that. Go for it, whatever blows your skirt up.

Marcie

You say we are society
Then you say we can dress how we like beard or not

You then go on to say you cant accept it

How exactly does this help the community move forward

As for reality that depends on where you are
I have been out in the community and seen crossdresser's with beards being treated the same as everyone else

They are making the effort to change perceptions to those that are not used to seeing it

Will you ever be able to accept it Marcie ?

[Janie Gunn]

Be YOU, however that is.
I shaved my bit of facial hair off long ago because I didnt like the look on me.
If you're going out in public dressed 'in-between', there will always be people who will 'label' or 'disaprove' of it in some way because it is even more un-natural, neither 'he' or 'she', society is just like that, and something that wont ever change. Be aware you may cop some flack from those who speak their minds, and just need to get used to it if you are going out in public like that.
Such broad acceptance would be nice, but is that really going to happen in this 'wide' world? I think not. Dont worry about it too much. Labels arent gonna go away.

Janie

[Genifer Teal]

Warning! Rant ahead!

As many of you know, I have a beard, and have no plans to shave it off. I also love wearing feminine clothing . . . I found was a definition for Genderf&ck. I found this in several places, and it made my heart sink and my stomach clench. I . . . do not feel compelled to shave every hair off my body as well. I love being in the middle, because that's where I feel the most comfortable.

Thanks!
Byllie

Sure, the name sounds bad, but I never took it as a bad thing. As I see it, anyone "in the middle" is "outside the box" and that f&cks with society's binary idea of gender. To me the name describes what we do to society and not society's view that we are F'd up. Everything is fine in their binary world until we come along and present a third option which confuses the heck out of most people. So once again, we are F'ing with their close minded brains.

I may try to conform to society's expectation of how a female should present, but I could still fit the same category (gender f&ck). I am definately not dressing as society would expect a man to. I like messing with peoples minds a bit. I think if I truely did pass all the time this might get boring. Just my feelings. I'm not offended by the term, maybe others shouldn't be either.

I will say that I personally would reserve the term for someone like Marilyn Manson. I think he is the definiton of Gender F&ck. Technically we may fit the definiton too but that is like saying a woman who wears mens jeans is crosdressing too.

Gen

[2b.Lauren]

Byllie thanks for sharing that. You know where I feel this the most is the whole underdressing thing. Many of us for whatever reason are not able to fully dress daily, but need to express our feminine side daily. So wearing whatever we choose under drab on a daily basis is our way of expressing the real us. Others might question that and there have been many post regarding that. I think we need to be true to ourselves and who we are. We are always going to be questioned by others, so I would say don't waste mental energy there. Express and love the women that you are at the level you can!

I have posted in the forum a few times that I do not have a very hairy body. I have also shared how lucky I feel to have been blessed with that genetic factor. I often feel as I have posted that statement that I could so easily offend or make others judge themselves. I wish you acceptance and love for yourself!

Be true to yourself,
Lauren

[Intertwined]

It doesn’t matter what others think about YOU !
Its what you think about yourself that counts !

I do not understand how anyone can tell someone what they are, or what they are not. Nobody knows that other person better than that person themselves.

What if I told you, I have certain gifts that most people would consider to be magic?

If I know exactly what I am looking for, I can find anything that is buried as long as I can walk over it, its called dowsing.

I also can heal injuries and illnesses with a touch, I am what’s called a Reiki practitioner.

[Melinda G]

Our species within coultures Seem to hate Thoes who do not look or act the norm of society and the "mainstreem" RELIGION of the coulture!
I think that Religion is The DOWNFALL of society!
IT has in the past even Downgrated and Persecuted the advancements of Science as well as those Who Think Differently!
DO NOT FORGET.. Religion = Government= Media = Popular Coulture! = Your environment.. Try to Change IT!

This is your brain on drugs.

NO! It's the other way round!

The more oddballs there are out in the street (bearded men in frocks, punks with 36 piercings, 8-foot giants, women riding zebras...) the more normal the rest of us look!

Let's hear it for the oddballs. I don't want to be the only freak in the village.
__________________
Katie B

Hmmm. You just might be on to something.

[jessielee]

we are so much more than we appear.
God is alive; Magic is afoot
God is alive; Magic is afoot
God is afoot; Magic is alive
Alive is afoot.....
Magic never died.
Leonard Cohen

i am afoot
as i hide
yet full of wonder.
and you are, too!