I'm outraged!

[Tashee]

I can't post many pics and really should keep a low profile. I dream of being beautiful, I know I am not. I see the same bias by us to the beautiful ones. My heart sinks I am not wish to be and may be inside.
Your rant is a good rant it is food for thought. Now Know one has put any pressure on me. The pressure I feel to be beautiful is all self imposed. My lack of pic posting comes by MY choice of professions.
If you happen to be beautiful inside and out great. But if you are blessed with inner beauty you will be truly beautiful in others eyes

[justmetoo]

I'm saddened at some of the lack of acceptance even within the community, but mostly on this site I see lots of acceptance for various forms of personal expression.
In the past I encountered some of the "rules" and thought there was something wrong with me because the so-called "rules" didn't fit me. These days I'm learning to be more accepting of myself and learning to make my own rules. It's called self-expression - other people's rules don't apply!
At any rate I've never seen an official CD rulebook.
I try to live by those excellent words from the Bard - "To thine own self be true". I also try to respect the rights and decisions of others, especially when they are different from my own.

[Maxi]

jamie55, Byllie,
Some of us are very accepting of any form of dress. With or without hair, what ever you like, go for it. I'll wear lingerie & stockings with a beard, and my wife accepts me. Show you who is really open minded.

[MarcieM]

I am not trying to hijack your thread but I've had enough. It's no wonder that transgendered have a hard time being accepted when we can't even accept our own.

I have to disagree. It's not about tg/cd not being able to accept their own.
It's about choices and priorities, what works, and what doesn't work.
I had a full beard for over 25 years. When I decided to get serious about cd-ing, I shaved it off.
If you never plan on leaving your house cd-ed, who cares if you look like Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top wearing a dress?

[jamie55]

I have to disagree. It's not about tg/cd not being able to accept their own.
It's about choices and priorities, what works, and what doesn't work.
I had a full beard for over 25 years. When I decided to get serious about cd-ing, I shaved it off.
If you never plan on leaving your house cd-ed, who cares if you look like Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top wearing a dress?

Hi Marcie: First off thank you Maxi it is nice to see open minded people on this forum. Secondly Marci: What works for you may not be the same for me or anyone else on this forum, to each their own so to say. I go out of my house dressed the way I want to dress and not the way you want me to dress in order to fulfill your agenda. Just looking at your profile tells me that you are full of bs. Look at mine if you haven't already. I give you enough info that you could probably drive right up to my house and if you need more just pm me and I'll give you all the info you need. I am not afraid to be who I am and I don't appreciate those who deprecate me because I don't measure up to their standards whatever they are. Oh and by the way just for the record I am clean shaven from my nose to my toes, I am only defending those who choose to follow a different path. After all that is what gender diversity is all about.
PS: Mods don't lock this thread up just because I'm being obnoxious I'll just go away if that will help.

[MarcieM]

Just looking at your profile tells me that you are full of bs. Look at mine if you haven't already. I give you enough info that you could probably drive right up to my house and if you need more just pm me and I'll give you all the info you need. I am not afraid to be who I am and I don't appreciate those who deprecate me because I don't measure up to their standards whatever they are.

Just because I don't have a detailed profile I'm full of BS? And where did I say you were afraid to be who you are or failed to measure up to anyone's standards? I haven't.
Maybe you need to cut back on the caffeine or something? Lose the drama hon, it's really not necessary.

You can propose an "anything goes" theory on cd-ing if you like, but that's simply not how it works in the real world. You know that, I know that, and every other CD knows that.

[jamie55]

Maybe you need to cut back on the caffeine or something? Lose the drama hon, it's really not necessary.

You can propose an "anything goes" theory on cd-ing if you like, but that's simply not how it works in the real world. You know that, I know that, and every other CD knows that.

Hi Marci: Please enlighten me. because I live way out here in the boondocks I guess maybe I don't know about the real world.

[sissystephanie]

Thanks, folks, I'm glad my reaction to the term seems to have been appropriate. Personally, I feel we need to start using new language when it comes crossdressing. For example, most CDs speak of wearing women's clothing. But we also speak of releasing our feminine sides. So, why can't we talk of wearing feminine clothing, just as females can wear masculine clothing? Does the clothing make the woman? I think not. Is a tomboy any less a woman because she prefers denim jeans and boots to skirts and high heals?

every human being has feminine and masculine qualities, and each of us has a unique balance of the two. That's what makes me "me". The problem, as I see it, is that society expects a man to be masculine and a woman to be feminine. So, if a man acts feminine, that must mean he wants to be a woman, true? Absolutely not! And that, IMHO, is at the heart oif this language dilema.

Labels are for packages and not for people, so let's stop using them on each other.

Toodles!
Bylliee

Bylliee, you are absolutely right. Nobody should be "labeled!" Whether that person is a CD, "tomboy," or etc, they are still a "person" and should be recognized as such. My dear late wife years ago told me that I wore "feminine" clothing rather than "woman's" clothing. She explained that "woman's" clothing generally meant that clothing designed for larger females, while I wore "miss's" sizes. Since then I have always referred to my CD clothing as "feminine." I don't have a beard or mustache, but do go out in public in feminine clothing without a wig or makeup. If someone called me a a name, other then Crossdresser, to my face, they better be ready for some serious hurt!! I am a crossdresser and readily admit it!

[Satrana]

Well if we are going to discriminate against beards because they jar too much with the feminine image then we also have to include all other masculine properties that dont jive with femininity such anyone over 6 feet, anyone with a muscular build, anyone with wide shoulders, anyone with a shoe size over 10 etc.

That probably leaves about 10% of this forum's membership as duly certified crossdressers who have passed the qualification that they don't possess any recognizable masculine properties.

[Kelsy]

Byllie,

No labels, no judgement, no rules. ----acceptance, belonging and love

Be yourself!!

Kelsy

[deja true]

... Beards and high heels don't go together very well.

Who says?

...You really need to make a decision one or the other, soon!

Why?

[DAVIDA]

Well, isn't that special!
Marcie, first you condem those who have beards or facial hair and say that we are not crossdressers. Then you say later, that if you don't go out of your house looking like a member of ZZ Top in a dress, then it is OK. Well , how about you make up your mind!
If I knew that posting a picture of me from six or seven years ago would piss people off, I would have done it a long time ago. But, if I did it then, you were not around then and would not have seen it.

And, Melinda, have you ever seen a person with a beard wearing heels?

I am very proud of my sisters here that have graciously defended EVERYONES right to do and be whoever and whatever they are!
Several of our members here do have beards, and do go out dressed. NO one has the right to say that they can't.

I don't have a beard or any hair above the waist (other that the small amount left on my head and some that has appeared in my ears), or on my legs. I do have some on my a$$. I can PM you a pic if you want.(You think a beard is gross)

Why don't you just hit the ignore button and you will not have to take the chance of seeing another picture of me with a beard.

[Kate Simmons]

Hmm to me the real challenge is to be yourself not to try and fill someone else's standard of who they think you should be. That's how I got into this to begin with.

[Lawren]

Ok folks. Enough with the fighting over so-called rules.

Crossdressing is, like all other facets of life, varied to the extremes of both radical and conservative. I, personally, want to vomit when I see some drag queens out and about with ten pounds of makeup on and tin cones for boobs. I feel the same way about Goth and Grunge. So what? That is the image they want to project. However, I will NOT join in the social attitude of condemning them for their choice of appearance. I will NOT relegate myself to togas and roman sandals just to accomodate my facial hair and get the feeling of a skirt flowing around my knees. Nor will I shave five times a day. I will NOT be the one who decides who is a CD and who is not. That was my point in my thread; Hypocrasy, A Minor Rant". If we cannot accept each other, how much less can we expect others to accept us?

Let's unify our own ranks. It will make the road to full acceptance much easier.

I am an individual who enjoys wearing clothing that is made for the opposite sex. IMHO, that makes me a crossdresser. I will not write, nor abide by, any arbitrary rules about CDing. As my tagline says; "I am just an average person with an expanded wardrobe".

[Byllie]

Methinks this is an issue that our community stills needs to discuss and deal with. After reading the latest onslaught of postings, I've had a few more "thoughts".

First, there's the issue of crossdressing and transitioning (I assume the latter as a transsexual). Those who really are transitioning, IMHO, are trying to become the gender they were not born with. This does not match the true def of CDing, which is to dress in a manner opposite your own gender.

Okay, that said, what if we accept the concept of a gender continuum? In that case, what we wear merely reflects the gender, or rather point on the continuum, we feel we are. That is, neither completely female nor completely male, but somewhere in-between.

Those who say that "beards and skirts don't go together", seem to be confirming a polar view of gender, rather than a continuum. And, by the way, there are cultures on our planet where women (XX) have facial hair *and* it's seen as beautiful. Are we perhaps being a tad too ethnocentric in our views?

I started this thread with a rant, but it's turned into a wonderful discussion that I feel we need to undertake often. Language is the way we communicate, and it's therefore important to get the definitions straight. I'm sooooo glad that we, as a group, can discuss issues so well, and feel comfortable to sometimes "let it all hang out."

Your turn ...

Toodles!
Byllie (proud to be who I am)

[MarcieM]

Well, isn't that special!
Marcie, first you condem those who have beards or facial hair and say that we are not crossdressers.

No, I never said that. Maybe you need to check back on who said what.

Then you say later, that if you don't go out of your house looking like a member of ZZ Top in a dress, then it is OK. Well, how about you make up your mind!

No, I never said that either. Maybe you need to improve your reading skills.

Several of our members here do have beards, and do go out dressed. NO one has the right to say that they can't.

Again, I never said they couldn't go out. I'm simply saying if someone does CD and have a beard, and go in public, be prepared to be viewed as a freak.
It's really that simple. Be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions.
You can have this utopian view of a perfect world where everybody "does their own thing" and nobody judges how anyone else looks, but you know that's completely unrealistic. I live and function in the real world. It's not a perfect world, but it is what it is. That's the long and short of it.

[Melinda G]

Part of the reason for this site, I believe, is to educate people, and gain acceptance for CDers, among the general public. And beards and high heels certainly don't enhance our image with anyone, except maybe the defiant, "I can do as I please" crowd. So be my guest. You can wear fishnets and a santa claus suit with your beard if you like. I can only speak for myself, and I'm not into making a fool of myself in front of other people. And you beards and high heels types do nothing for the CDers image these days. It's hard enough gaining acceptance for CDing, without a few freaks dragging us back down!

[Nicki B]

And you beards and high heels types do nothing for the CDers image these days. It's hard enough gaining acceptance for CDing, without a few freaks dragging us back down!

Melinda, don't you see that's exactly the same argument that has been used by a minority in the LGB movement to disassociate themselves from the trans and more flamboyant gay communities? It's very selfish - and worse, ultimately self-defeating?

If acceptance for EVERYONE can be increased, we ALL benefit. If it can't, we ALL lose.

[carolinoakland]

eh, trans are like this..." all poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles. Carol.

[MarcieM]

If acceptance for EVERYONE can be increased, we ALL benefit. If it can't, we ALL lose.

Guess what? There will NEVER, I repeat NEVER, be acceptance for a bearded man wearing a dress in public. It's simply NOT going to happen. If you think this grandiose vision is somehow possible, you need a serious reality check.

[Melinda G]

If acceptance for EVERYONE can be increased, we ALL benefit. If it can't, we ALL lose.

There are always a few people trying to push the envelope. These people just make us look foolish, just like the Budweiser Boys make CDers look foolish.
And yes, the flamboyant gays don't do their cause any favors either! Many people go through their entire lives with no one knowing they are gay, until they get arrested for something. Others just go through life making fools of themselves with their flamboyant, in your face antics.

[Sarah...]

Guess what? There will NEVER, I repeat NEVER, be acceptance for a bearded man wearing a dress in public. It's simply NOT going to happen. If you think this grandiose vision is somehow possible, you need a serious reality check.

And the Titanic will never sink.

And women will never get the vote.

And mankind will never fly.

And humans will never survive moving at speeds greater than 50 kph.

And there will never be a female prime minister.

And homosexual people will never be accepted.

And there will never be another world war after world war one - the war to end all wars.

I guess any one of us could go on. History is littered with people who confidently predicted that various things would never happen. They all suffered from flawed thinking in one way or another. Now I'm not saying that the opposite is a dead cert - just that "never" is such a final solution that is so often wrong.

Sarah..

[lauraabdl]

When u can be both male and female! I just prefer NOT to present as both simultaneously!

The way I CD, shaving isn't necessary.

I too sport a mustasch for my male side as my SO likes it. I tried shaveing my beard off and that was ok, shaved my chest hair and SO went balistic, shaved my legs and SO don't approve but will tolorate. So present as you will or can its as individual as we are.
Laura

[DAVIDA]

I never said that I ever went out when I did have a beard. But, if I did want to, I certainly would not call anyone to see if it was OK!
As for the statement that a man with a beard will never be accepted wearing feminine clothing has not met Butterfly Bill, who is a member of this forum!
My point is, people have the right to wear what they want to. Most crossdressers that have facial hair probably never go out of their house.
Those that do, more power to them!
I personally have never felt ashamed of, or bad for myself, for the way someone else is presenting themselves!

[MarcieM]

As for the statement that a man with a beard will never be accepted wearing feminine clothing has not met Butterfly Bill

I know who he is, and regarding him, I'm going to say "no comment".