Well given our hobby..... the truth will set you free....
but many times free of your current life style, your wife and family , your job, and your savings.... The truth isn't a blanket solution to everyones situation.... imho......
And I hated that movie.....
It is all to easy for one`s that are out of the closet to say that is the best way to go, if all things in life were equal i would then agree with you but they are not , there is still a lot of bad feelings, mistrust and a lack of understanding about Cding out there .
It is better to be honest in a relationship but you have to give the one`s in the closet the benefit of knowing their circumstance`s better than anyone else, i am sure that most way up the risk`s and have decided that at least for now the closet is the best place for them , it is not for us to make them feel bad about it as there is enough bad feelings towards some if you are out .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Joanne
guess I am in a pretty unique situation here
My Ex was a cdr who I discovered after 2 1/2 years into the relationship .... not good ..... the feeling of devestation of being lied to was horrendous, it made me look very very closely at what i believed had till then been a good relationship . it took from the beginning of our relationship the good memories of all the great times ( was he pretending, was all that good good sex because he had been dressed before I appeared, the times he we were seperate, did he dress, was he searching the web for all sorts of sites) ........... trust me bad bad times and our relationship never ever recoverd from them ........ okay he did add to them but that is another story.
Now in another relationship, I have none of those fears or worries, I met Debs here, she is open and honest, she is the one who is having a little trouble with having an accepting SO, as in she is frightened that she will push me too far with it ........... she will get over that in time I hope
The fact that we met here, the fact that she is honest, the fact that she does take into account my feelings are all huge benifts to both of us. Neither of us would be happy with her in Narnia
I allow myself to set healthy boundaries ..... to say no to what does not align with my values, to say yes to what does.
Boundaries assist me to remain healthy, honest and living a life that is true to me
Well said Sheila, I think the biggest problem for most CDers is accepting the fact that we desire to dress ,not others. I do not accept it I just lived with it the best I could...I never hid my desires from my wife she never wanted to "deal with it" ..My mistake was I hid my time doing it... Why because I myself could not accept it.
I feel for most of us , if we can accept ourselves first then the closet fear will go away..Until then how can we expect other to accept us? To understand why we do what we do or what drives us into doing it..
I have felt deceitful in the past for not sharing this.Now I've come to realize there's no need to put myself through that.Everyone is so different with their own level of acceptance, I'll continue to treat people accordingly.I don't find it necessary to shatter people with info they can't deal with and theres nothing wrong with a few things remaining personal in my life.
I kept it from my wife for years then I slipped up - and YOU at some point will slip up and be found out. She don't like any part of it but there is now honesty in our relationship at last and she hasnt left me. Had I told her at the start, I dont know whether we would be together. She hates the fact that I lied to her a million times more than that I am a CD.. But that's me and not you
mitch
1) do you know for a fact that I (WE) will slip up like you did?Originally Posted by Mitch23
2) are you happy now knowing that you have honesty in your relationship even though your wife doesn't like any part of it?
3) the fact that she hasnt left you...do you consider that a positive?
Just curious,
Jacqui
Me thinks you've been watching Jimmy Carr
Administrator
Missing my Libra babe Sherlyn, I hope she's rocking up there with the angels
Missing our Rianna, doesn't seem right, gone to early, hope she's partying with Sherlyn
No choice here either, wife would never understand.
"Secrets are like this. They push themselves up through the sands of time so men may know them"
-native saying
Zarabeth
(Formerly known everywhere as Lady Zarabeth
When I told my wife of 15 years it backfired on me. She would not accept it and we divorced because of it. Moral of story...... be up front about everything before taking those marriage vows!
I'll give my two cents here. I'm no relationship expert but I do know how I feel. I don't believe that love (unlike many other things) has a gray area. You either have true love where the two of you love and accept one another unconditionally or you have false love where your pseudo-love is based on how the other person benefits you in various ways. Despite what we are taught, love and relationships are also two different things. You may have to break up with a spouse because the relationship for whatever reason is not working but if you have true love for them that still will not change even though you two are apart.
To get to the point, regardless of how much you may love your spouse if you are not in control of your life then you cannot have a successful relationship no matter how hard you try. How can you please your wife if you can't please yourself? Likewise, if pleasing your wife means doing things that make you unhappy is it really worth it? I have little tolerance over manipulation by others after I've been burned so many times. I was in a relationship with a TS woman who started becoming increasingly controlling to where I would have to explain why I purchased a Starbucks coffee with my own money. Finally I just had enough and when she made some snide remark such as "What is more important: me or your Taco Bell?" I said the "Taco Bell" and proceeded to pack my bags and left. Your spouse may not approve of your crossdressing like other things but in my opinion the second your spouse starts controlling you, the relationship is dysfunctional. The spouse will continue to get more controlling and more suspicious and you will get more unhappy.
So the moral of the story is that if your life situation requires you to choose between CDing and remaining in a relationship with your spouse then I believe it is time to separate/divorce. You cannot be happy with yourself and your life if you are not in control of your own destiny but someone else is and especially if such control is harmful. I'm sure a lot of people here are tangled financially and otherwise (i.e. children) with their wives/spouses. If that is the case then that is a shame. Not to sound harsh here but I do believe in personal responsibility and therefore you should never have gotten yourself into a mess that you cannot get out of in the first place. Maybe it is just me but no matter how long I've been in a relationship I still don't hand over all the keys so to speak. I've heard too many horror stories of long-term relationships where the spouse cleans out their bank accounts, takes all of their stuff, and publically ruins their reputation. If you can't trust your spouse to work with you over a complicated and contraversial issue then time to find a new spouse who will. Britney
it is quoted in threads all over the forum, as a ...."she either loves you unconditionally ... or else" type thing
SORRY but there is NO DAMN THING AS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE .. at least in adulthood ......... whether you will admit it or not none of us love unconditionlly.. much as the thought of it is appealing it is in actual fact unrealistic.
We are all looking for things fromour relationship, Men & woman alike, we expect our partner to give us the feel good factoe, to respond in kind to how we feel about them .... ergo whether you like it or not we are not loving unconditionally...... the purest form of that kind of love comes drom our kids, or pets and even then they have expectations from us after the first few weeks, that we feed, & care for them, already at tender ages our kids have expectaions, and so the unconditional love they have for us is already going
but true
I allow myself to set healthy boundaries ..... to say no to what does not align with my values, to say yes to what does.
Boundaries assist me to remain healthy, honest and living a life that is true to me
I disagree. Just because you may not have experienced such type of love does not mean that it doesn't exist. I already explained in my previous post that love and a relationship are two different things which most people don't understand. It is relatively easy to love someone but working with them on challenging issues is not always an easy task. As said in the previous post, if a relationship has true love but for whatever reason a relationship won't work then the love will still not diminish regardless of the fact that you two are now apart. As hard as this is to believe it is the truth. Our society puts a huge emphais on "relationships" where loving someone suddenly means you must live together, share your finances, do everything for each other, and most importantly that you don't also love anyone else. The real meaning of love is very distorted by our culture. If a spouse is doing something that is clearly damaging to the relationship, then a spouse has a reason to be upset and if it can't be worked out then the relationship would end. That still won't change the love, however. However, a spouse who is unnecessarily controlling of the other person, suspicious of their every move, and refuses to work with them on any issues they have due to their own selfishness clearly does not have any sense of true love for their partner. Our culture is so based on material things that most people don't even know what love is anymore and that is sad. Britney
Nigella I agree in part. I believe that if you truely love someone it is not fair to lie to them every day which is what you do when you do not tell them about your crossdressing. I do not think that you need to tell everyone you know if you are not comfortable with it as it will most likely have adverse repercussions on your entire life. I personally told my wife every thing before we were married I would never hide anything from her. If you don't take the love reasoning into this at least realise that most women outlive men, do you really want you beloved to discover upon your death that you kept a secret throughout your entire lives together? It may seem like a burdon but honestly lieing is a horrible mistake if your wife or SO can't handle it now imagine how they will fell 20 or 50 years down the road when they discover your secret and you can't explain it to them, the shock alone could be enough to kill them. I am sorry if my view is unpopular but I really believe that any lie that is carried with you EVERY day is a terrible thing and more harmful to your SO then the truth could ever be.
Love like you've never been hurt,
work like you don't need the money,
and dance as if no one is watching.
Delila
As I recently discovered telling your SO you cd is extreamly difficult, more so than I ever imagined. I believe each situation is unique, some will go OK and others will regret doing it bigtime. There is no blanket rule of thumb that will cover all cd'ers telling their SO as much as we'd like one.
Of course no one likes being lied to, I explained this to my SO and told her I was sorry keeping it from her, but I also asked her in all fairness to step into my shoes, would she have told me if the tables were turned? The last thing most cd'ers want to do is lie to anyone about it, but what choice do we have we feel so often. We don't feel good about it I can assure you of that, we do feel the guilt of the lieing.
My SO seemed very understanding as I told her about it and that its been since age of 7-8 y/o and my being a cd wasn't by choice. I also believe whats been said, we're born this way. Her response at the time was I can't do this, I can't live with a cd. Since then its calmed down here but its still a very touchy subject. There are no easy answers to this in general, both sides have valid points in how they feel and why.
I see this issue never being resolved to either sides satisfaction and neither party is wrong in how they feel either, people are very complex creatures.
I know what its like to be lied to by someone you love, I've been cheated on a few times, yes it hurts having your trust betrayed, but it happens in every situation and no one is exempt, friendships, dating etc... its not just cd'ers that are guilty.
Last edited by Jess_cd32; 01-15-2009 at 03:42 AM.
If a choice between the two MUST be made, why is choosing your spouse not an option? You talk of being in control of yourself, in control of your life in a positive manner. Does it not stand to reason that controlling/giving up CDing may be an option for some?
1) Yes - perhaps not by leaving your bra lying around as i did but in a 1000 different ways. an unguarded sentence, a mannerism, a speck of mascara, a photo, an unexpected return to the house, an unwanted tradesperson, finding your stash, talking to a friend - just the 6th sense that women have. Mine ain't stupid and she 'knew' before she knew and i suspect many here on this site are deluding themselves
2) No - not happy but honesty is the first bridge towards healing and understanding. She trys very hard but it is to her like the elephant in the wardrobe. we would both say that our relationship on balance is better than it wassw before because this hidden barrier is not between us
3) Yes - a positive. I expected her to do if she found out because that is the way i have been conditioned. we both love each other to bits, we've been together for a long time and dont want to throw it away - we have a son and dont believe that a wrecked relationship is good for him. So I have to compromise and make sacrifices but they are worth making. and hey ... good questions
mitch
Hi Ladies,
Like many of us I was perplexed by what to do in terms of telling my SO about dressing. When we were married 11 years ago my dressing was in a quiet phase and I did not tell her as a thought there would never be a need for her to know.
Ten years after we were married I began to dress again in little bits and then the floodgates broke. I stayed late at my office two or three times per week to dress and came home very late. I always had a good reason why I was late. The problem was I was lost in a pink fog and I did not see the toll the loneliness was taking on my SO. I did not like lying to her or sneaking around but I did not have the courage to tell her how I had gone back to an old habit.
One day about a month ago my SO by chance found the drawer I was hiding my wigs in. When we were alone she confronted me about it and I had to tell her they were mine. She asked me if I was cross dressing and I said yes. The first words out of her mouth were "I want a divorce."
After that very rocky start we have worked very hard to understand each other. I have apologized over and over for lying to her and stealing the time I should have spent with her. She has had many painful days and sleepless nights. Thanks to the wonderful GG's on this forum she has had people to talk to and has begun to relax and our marriage is getting more solid day by day.
In the end I think we will be better off after the cathartic event of my forced coming out. It has been very painful for my SO however and I wonder if the price she has had to pay will be worth it.
It is not easy to tell and it can be bad your marriage to keep a secret and get lost in a pink fog. I can not blame our sisters who can not get up the nerve to tell their SO's because as I know from painful experience it can be very hard on both you especially your SO.
If you find yourself outed don't get angry at your SO. Accept responsibility for any time you have taken from her or any lies you told to keep your secret. Give her time to adjust and take the blows she sends your way. Please remember to be the man she married and show her you can still be the man in her life. Remember she did marry you to have a sister she married you to be her man and even in this day and age this means she has to feel protected and safe with you. This is something that a sister or girlfriend cannot give her.
Sorry if I got off the subject but I just wanted to let people know there is no black and white when it comes to telling SO's it can hurt or help and you will never know which way it turned out.
Love,
Kathy Leigh
Kathy,
Your situation sounds almost exactly like mine. I'm coming up on my 11th year of marriage. Before we met, I was in a period of my life where there was no sign of the Pink Fog so I had thrown away what few articles of women's clothing I had (a bra and some panties) and left that life behind me. I was done with it. I had found my true love and was happy again in my life (this was my second marriage - I had a "starter wife" marriage when I was pretty young that didn't last very long for unrelated reasons).
Since then, I've had so much to keep me busy and distracted like career changes, several housing moves, trying and trying and trying to have children and then adopting the most wonderful child on the planet, etc...
After my first marriage, I spent a lot of time in therapy trying to figure out why my life had gotten so off track. There were things my first wife lied to me about that left me feeling betrayed - the main issue being that we agreed to have children later in the marriage and when later came and we talked about it again, she changed her mind. So I saw the absolute need for honesty in relationships and vowed that my next one would be completely honest when it came to the things that really mattered. Crossdressing didn't matter to me anymore, though, and honestly didn't ever enter into my mind as something I needed to tell her. Honestly! At the time, it was akin to the "lost summer" I had when I went out drinking from Tuesday night to Sunday night (I usually took Monday's off to recover). I didn't tell her about that, either. It was something I did in the past that I wasn't ever planning on doing again.
So here I am, 10 years later, with a stash that includes 2 wigs, underwear, makeup, a skirt, a blouse, and breast forms that I've collected over the past few months. And the threads about SO's finding these things in the event that you died really got me thinking. I have to tell my wife. There's no way that I can risk that happening. I love her too much.
But then comes the prospect of telling her. What if she can't deal with it? What if she asks me to leave? Or what if she doesn't ask me to leave because she enjoys the security I can provide as well as the fact that we have a child but it totally changes the dynamic of our relationship to the extent that we're both miserable? And what will then happen with our daughter? Will my wife brand me a freak and turn my daughter against me? My daughter is still too young to understand and fully grasp the responsibility of knowing so I'm worried her perception of me as "daddy" will be damaged.
And then I think that perhaps this is something that's private to me and something I only do in private. I sneak away to have some self-gratification from time-to-time (and I apologize if that's TMI) and there's no need to tell her every time that occurs, right? But then I come back to the stash and what would happpen if she found that (whether I'm alive or dead - although, her finding it might mean the latter if I'm still the former!)
So on the one hand, I desperately want to tell my wife because I don't like keeping this side of me from her. But on the other hand, I desperately don't want to tell her because it could seriously rock a very steady boat.
Is Narnia reallly worth it? YES! And NO!
Last edited by Cassia-Marie; 01-15-2009 at 05:57 PM.
I'm so far back in the closet that I'm finding Christmas presents!
"Women often don't seem to have a problem with us, as long as we're not romantically involved with them of course." - goofus
Well said Cassie,
I can't say that telling the wife from the beggining is a plus or in different . From a lot of post I've read letting the wife know isn't nearly as bad as her finding out on her own. That's when the sh*t hit the fan!! You do break a trust issue that is important. She could shake it off and set boundries or she could file for a divorce depends on the depth of your dressing and your wifes acceptance.. Then would you be prepared for the new changes in your life ? What would you do if she accepted it and wanted more of it in her life would you be willing to take it further?
As for if you die and was found out, well what can I say has anyone ever heared from someone who has passed away and the stash was found?
Thank you for reading my long and rambling story. I guess I've been quiet about this for so long that now I can't shut up about it!
I've had one best (male) friend in my life that I considered more as a brother than a friend. My "brother from another mother" was what I called him. Anyway, he passed away 6 years ago and his parents cleaned out his apartment and found a lot of things that I wish I could have gotten to before they did. Have you ever heard of a "porn buddy?" Someone that cleans up your embarassing stuff before loved ones find it? Well, he never asked me and I wish that he had. It wasn't easy trying to explain to his parents. And I can't imagine what my family would go through should it ever happen to me.
By the way (and this is totally off subject), has it been extra quiet around here for the past few days or is it just me? This place used to be hopping with people and threads seem to be pretty dead now. I sincerely hope recent events haven't driven people away. I'm really enjoying this community and plan on contributing for as long as they'll have me. EVERYBODY! COME BACK!!!
I'm so far back in the closet that I'm finding Christmas presents!
"Women often don't seem to have a problem with us, as long as we're not romantically involved with them of course." - goofus
Which is that A LOT OF U R LIVING IN DENIAL! ( It's NOT a river, either!)
If u were ever edicted to ANYTHING that was sexually stimulating, exciting, or in some way got u going in that direction, for any reason, u have a problem!
Let's say there r certain fetishes that turned u on as a young man/woman. Porn, or big breasts, or bondage, woman's clothes, etc., etc. And then u meet the girl of your dreams! First, u marry her. Then, u enjoy the "honeymoon" period.
And during this whole time, u rarely, if ever, thot about your old fetish, turn ons! Then, that inevitable day comes to almost everyone! The honeymoon is over! The relationship becomes work! The sex slows, or maybe even stops!
Suddenly, your old fetish, sexual ediction, or WHATEVER u want to call it returns! And you're SO SHOCKED! What do u do now? U r COMPELLED to investigate it further. AND to keep it secret, because you feel like you're cheating!
And CDing may be the WORST of the lot! Because for many of u, it's MUCH MORE THAN A MERE FETISH! It's WHO U REALLY R!
I have no oppinion on whether u should hide it, tell her later, or tell her up front.
But, if U think it's going to perminantly go away, just because you marry the girl of your dreams, ( WHATEVER your old compulsion was), U DEFINITELY R LIVING IN NARNIA, AND denial!
Last edited by docrobbysherry; 01-16-2009 at 01:09 AM.
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
Choosing your spouse instead of CDing is an option only you can make. The question you should ask is whether or not you are happy with your life by the choices you have made. Some people tend to be more independent people while others are more dependent. I am more of an independent person meaning I will be more than happy living alone and single doing what I enjoy with my life vs. being with someone else where my needs come second to theirs. A lot of people can't live alone. They have to have someone with them all the time and naturally they will give up their own personal habits, hobbies, and enjoyment just to stay with the other person. If that is what makes them happy then all power to them. Those types of relationships don't work for me. I don't believe a relationship should be 50/50 where you are half a person and only your spouse makes you whole. Instead, it should be 100/100 where both of you are independent responsible people yet the two of you being together doubles the intensity of things. Any relationship requires you to give and take to a certain degree but ultimately if you are having to give up the things that truly make you happy to please someone else, in the long run for most people it is better to dump that spouse and find another who won't actually force you to make such a choice in the first place. Britney
I really know where you are coming from Cassie.
Its difficult to know what your SO finding out will lead. All the articles I have read from counselors seem to indicate that if your relationship is strong to begin with you should be able to work it out after the initial painful start.
My plan has been to accept all the blame and constantly apologize while doing as much man work around the house as I can, bringing home flowers and taking my wife to concerts and movies. So far we are talking, sleeping in the same bed and becoming more intimate. She reminds me everyday however that I am not out of the woods and may never be out of the woods for the rest of my life. Its all worth it to me if I can hold on the the women I love.
Love,
Kathy Leigh
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