Who's fooling who?

**Nigella** · 01-24-2009, 11:01 AM

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...59&postcount=1

This post has prompted this thread.

Most of us profess to be nothing more than men who like to wear women's clothing. We like our masculine side.

Then a thread comes up like the one above. Most of the responses are in the affirmative.

So what is it? Are you a Bloke in a Frock, nothing more nothing less or are you really a closet TS, with no disrespect to those who know they are TS.

IMHO a crossdresser is someone who wants to emulate a woman, in lots of ways but not be a woman.

**Kathi Lake** · 01-24-2009, 11:08 AM

Who needs Ricardo Montalban?

Your last line nailed it for me - I enjoy emulating (some call it "femulating") a woman. I dress up as fully as I can, and try to honor them in my transformation. I do not want to be a woman full time, because then I would have to do all this the clothes, the makeup, etc. As a guy, I get to do this. It's a treat to dress up. If I were a woman, I don't think I'd get such a charge out of it as it would be normal and expected.

Kathi

**JoAnne Wheeler** · 01-24-2009, 11:10 AM

I agree with you - we CDers are MEN who deeply enjoy expressing our FEMININTY by wearing the clothes of and transforming ourselves into women for a period of time.* Most of us do not want SRS.* We also enjoy our male side and have no desire to give our male side up.Crossdressing to me is satisfying, relaxing and rewarding.* I enjoy the CHALLENGE of the TRANSFORMATION - the greater the challenge, the greater the reward if the TRANSFORMATION turns out wellJoAnne Wheeler

**trisha59** · 01-24-2009, 11:12 AM

I'm a guy that likes to put on a dress occasionally. But I also have wondered what it would be like to be a woman, in the same vane as wondering what it would be like to be a bird and fly or dog and eat sleep and play all day. If that makes any sense

**Nigella** · 01-24-2009, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by trisha59

I'm a guy that likes to put on a dress occasionally. But I also have wondered what it would be like to be a woman, in the same vane as wondering what it would be like to be a bird and fly or dog and eat sleep and play all day. If that makes any sense

Makes lots of sense and so far the responses, even these limited ones are as expected.

Whilst I to have "wondered", I have never had the pretention of anything more than I am, whereas some "appear" to want to be more than they are, or profess to be.

Hope that makes sense

**Maria2222** · 01-24-2009, 11:18 AM

I think it would be interesting to get a chance to be the real thing for a short while.

**Naleen** · 01-24-2009, 11:22 AM

Im a guy that whould like to become a Female but that right now is not a goal that I can pursue. So right now I am trying to emulate a female to my best of knowledge in my own home or closet. Which keeps my femme side at bay for now.

**battybattybats** · 01-24-2009, 11:22 AM

At some point people here really will have to start acknowledging the reality of the rest of the transgender spectrum.

There aren't just pre-op and post-op TS but non-op TS as well. There are 24/7 full-time CDs and DQs and DKs too.

There are androgynes and genderqueers and more besides!

There is no neat simple TS catagory and CD catagory. There are blurry edges and spaces in between where an awful lof of us here fit!

The fear of being TS and having to head down some inevitable path of surgery, and for that matter the fear that a flamboyant/sexual CD is somehow less legitimate and a TS both lead to people clinging to one catagory or another in a desperate way.

Fact is you can be both male and female seperately inside, neither male nor female inside a single merged male/female inside and many varients. There will be people her that are 60%/40% male/female for example.

These are not binary, either A or Z type catagories.. theres a lot of spaces in between.

**Annie D** · 01-24-2009, 11:28 AM

I am not sure how I feel about remaining male. The more I dress, the more I want to continue dressing and in the back of my mind I can envision myself dressing 24/7. Yes, I enjoy going out in public as Annie and even though I am pretty sure that I am not fooling many people, I have reached the stage that I don't really care. My only concerns are with my wife and kids and I want to spare them any embarrassment about their husband and father. My kids are in high school and we all plan on them going to college and although I will be eligible to retire in a couple of years I can't due to the financial commitment that college will bring. I believe that once they are finished with college and I do retire, I will dress 24/7. Although I will not undergo any feminizing surgical procedures, I will try to present myself as womanly as possible because I like the way that I feel and think about myself when I am Annie.

Who am I fooling? I don't believe that I am fooling anyone except when I am dressed as a male, they don't know that I am really a female inside.

**Nigella** · 01-24-2009, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by battybattybats

At some point people here really will have to start acknowledging the reality of the rest of the transgender spectrum.

This appears to me that you are implying that I am very narrow minded in my approach to TGism. Nothing could be further from the truth.

This thread has got nothing to do with the differences from one end of the TG spectrum to the other, more to how much people are "fooling" themselves, hence the title "Who's fooling Who?

Without going through past posts, profiles and all the other information, I am unable to "name names", but a large number of people here do contradict themselves in many ways.

To be a woman is not to be a crossdresser, to be a woman is to be a gender.

**deja true** · 01-24-2009, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by battybattybats

...These are not binary, either A or Z type catagories.. theres a lot of spaces in between.

And there are a myriad of these spaces that just don't have any kind of convenient label.

Another aspect is that our places within these little spaces changes all the time...with every day, with every thought, with every new idea that we're exposed to.

All is change, dear ones. Nothing ever remains the same.....

**boardpuppy** · 01-24-2009, 12:25 PM

Nigella,
By implacation, you are a DCer who has happily and I beleive loveingly traved this CD path for some time. You know who/what you are, your priorities are set and you know what you want. Therein lies the problem, a lot of us find ourselves just starting down this road and some of us are dumped into as Batty called it the gray and unknown (paraphased) region (edges) between two areas or classificationns. We are here to discover what we are, CDers only or something more. Like you some will stop and be perfectly happy, but for those of us who are something more we will continue searching for answers/understanding/insight into what this journy is all about, if for no other reasons than to be able to answer the SO's questions (IMHO). At times I wish I could say I was only a CDer, at this point I don't know but I am a CDer.

Alice

**beenherelongtime** · 01-24-2009, 01:22 PM

i think most (not all) of us would like to be a woman for a short time. if only to be accepted as a lovely girl. it would be nice to wear silky(or any kind) of underwear, put on a nice outfit, and go out to shop, to work, to the movies or anywhere. we cannot acheive this because there is no magic wand or potion that will enable us to do this. so doubts crawl in. we have to (here it comes again) ourselves. as i said before, boy do we get confus(ing).

**Nigella** · 01-24-2009, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Katie B

Oh, Nigella, chuck it in.

Chuck what in?

Are you asking/telling me to stop making posts?

Sorry but I believe that this post is valid, and do not reject anyone's response to it, as has been said before, in various threads, posts and sections of this site, all comments, observations and opinions are valid on this site.

**Kelli Michelle** · 01-24-2009, 01:38 PM

I agree with Batty. There are just sooo many variations, based on brain, social experiences and the like, that there are sure to be an infinite number of people in different places in their lives.

For me, I would classify myself as past just cding, and heading toward some body modification whether that be HRT, breast implants. I do not feel I want SRS at this point, and would be content to live with my "lil friends". In other words, I am not just a guy in a dress, but was originally. As I discovered things about myself, I found I wanted more of the female side of me. It took a while, as we all have been bombarded by society into acting male (why not, we were), and loathing acting feminine.

Trying to figure out what we all are, I suppose, is an interesting exercise for comparison's and statistical's sake. But in the long wrong it doesn't really matter. We all are who we are, and who we are gonna be.

**linnea** · 01-24-2009, 01:57 PM

I think that this has been a very interesting post. I thank Nigella for initiating it.
As I have read through the responses and as I reflect on other comments I have seen in this forum, I think that there a lot of categories and that there is a lot of confusion and uncertainty.
There is also a lot of pleasure and satisfaction.
Many CDers, myself included, have fantasized about being a "real woman" or going through SRS to make the full transformation. For some, of course, this becomes a goal that eventually they achieve and enjoy various degrees of satisfaction.
Personally, I have concluded that I do not want to make that transition because at this point in my life it is too expensive and too disruptive to many of the other people who are important to me.
However, I enjoy--very much--the process and activities of being a cross-dresser and "femulating" in the very best way I can. It gives expression to a part of my personality that I really appreciate and that I find fulfilling.
Whom am I fooling? Probably no one. But in a few minutes when I finish dressing, the panties I'm wearing will feel good and the thought of the little bows on the waistband will tickle my imagination throughout the day.

**Debutante** · 01-24-2009, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Kathi Lake

Your last line nailed it for me - I enjoy emulating (some call it "femulating") a woman. I dress up as fully as I can, and try to honor them in my transformation. I do not want to be a woman full time, because then I would have to do all this the clothes, the makeup, etc. As a guy, I get to do this. It's a treat to dress up. If I were a woman, I don't think I'd get such a charge out of it as it would be normal and expected.Kathi

Kathi -- I agree too... emulating a woman to the best of one's ability, in fine clothes and mannerisms, that honor women and the feminine, is what I strive for... it can be so satisfying... but I don't see SRS or full time CDing in my path.... emulation is wonderful!

**Gabrielle Hermosa** · 01-24-2009, 03:26 PM

If I could be magically transformed in to a 100% woman TEMPORARILY, I would absolutely do it. Aren't you curious in the slightest? I wouldn't push that button if it were permanent, but for a day or even a week - let me see what it's like. I'd have fun with it and truly get to experience what the other side is like.

About my crossdressing, I prefer to make myself appear as female as as possible. I'm always a man, but I've got many traits and interests that are considered feminine and love to femme-up when I can. My goal is to become a passable woman. I don't want to look like a man in women's clothes, I want to look as female as possible. That's my personal interest in it. I'm not even close to passable (at least not in person), but maybe in time, I can get better at it.

No desire to get a sex change. I love being a man who can transform into a woman. Wish I could do it more often!

**Deborah Jane** · 01-24-2009, 03:31 PM

I guess i,m a guy in a frock!!

I really enjoy being a guy and all that goes with it, but sometimes i just feel the need to dress all the way as a girl.
I enjoy my girly time immensly, but very rarely feel the need to dress for more than several hours at a time before i want to go back to doing my guy things again.

**Jonianne** · 01-24-2009, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Nigella

.......a large number of people here do contradict themselves in many ways.......

In a forum such as this, people join not only for support but also to help sort them selves out. Someone may feel one way one day and by the next feel totaly different.

And that is OK.

Feelings will change. I'm glad we have this forum to help express ourselves even if we contridict ourselves at times. In time and after much expression things tend to jell and we get a more stable view of who we are. Sometimes it takes a lot of bouncing things off others, who care, before we settle down. Besides, the continum of gender is pretty fluid anyway.

**Cassia-Marie** · 01-24-2009, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Jonianne

In a forum such as this, people join not only for support but also to help sort them selves out. Someone may feel one way one day and by the next feel totaly different.

And that is OK.

Feelings will change. I'm glad we have this forum to help express ourselves even if we contridict ourselves at times. In time and after much expression things tend to jell and we get a more stable view of who we are. Sometimes it takes a lot of bouncing things off others, who care, before we settle down. Besides, the continum of gender is pretty fluid anyway.

Yes!, what she said.

**MissConstrued** · 01-24-2009, 04:43 PM

Thus far this month, 24 days into it (576 hours) I've spent about 16 hours (I think) dressed up & out. So, that makes me about 2.7% girl on the transgender spectrum.

If I don't again this month, which is likely, that will drop to 2.1% for January.

Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe I'll track the occasions for 2009 and get a more accurate figure... I suspect it will be around that 2% though.

And I'm perfectly happy with that. Count me as one, Nigella, who's never wanted to be anything other than what I am -- just better at it. That doesn't mean I don't wonder, out of pure enlightened curiosity, what it's like to be something or someone else for a fleeting moment. I think that's called empathy.

**Debutante** · 01-24-2009, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by battybattybats

At some point people here really will have to start acknowledging the reality of the rest of the transgender spectrum.
There aren't just pre-op and post-op TS but non-op TS as well. There are 24/7 full-time CDs and DQs and DKs too.

There are androgynes and genderqueers and more besides!

There is no neat simple TS catagory and CD catagory. There are blurry edges and spaces in between where an awful lof of us here fit! ...

Fact is you can be both male and female seperately inside, neither male nor female inside a single merged male/female inside and many varients. There will be people her that are 60%/40% male/female for example.

These are not binary, either A or Z type catagories.. theres a lot of spaces in between.

Yes, i believe this... this is an accurate description of all of us in this very wide spectum... this needs a lot of understanding, tolerance, acceptance of difference... very hard!

**Kate Simmons** · 01-24-2009, 05:26 PM

There are no hard and fast rules in this "game". As it said before under my avatar, nothing is immutable. That includes designations and definitions and self identification. As human beings we are fluid and never in stasis for long. Put simply, if we don't forward, we miss the boat.

**Tasha McIntyre** · 01-24-2009, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Gabrielle Hermosa

If I could be magically transformed in to a 100% woman TEMPORARILY, I would absolutely do it. Aren't you curious in the slightest? I wouldn't push that button if it were permanent, but for a day or even a week - let me see what it's like. I'd have fun with it and truly get to experience what the other side is like.

About my crossdressing, I prefer to make myself appear as female as as possible. I'm always a man, but I've got many traits and interests that are considered feminine and love to femme-up when I can. My goal is to become a passable woman. I don't want to look like a man in women's clothes, I want to look as female as possible. That's my personal interest in it. I'm not even close to passable (at least not in person), but maybe in time, I can get better at it.

No desire to get a sex change. I love being a man who can transform into a woman. Wish I could do it more often!

YES YES YES......what she said exactly. I can't even edit Gab's post because I relate to it all.

I have a lot to thank this site for. 6 months ago i didn't have a clue - but since joining here and doing a [SIZE="3"]lot[/SIZE] of reading I have finally come to terms with myself.

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