Discrimination from WITHIN the gender community

[Tamara Croft]

Tamara, I'm sorry if I come across as an elitist. I am not, I'm just a TS trying to get on in life without being compromised. I have some good CD friends that I will go out with. One is a hard core goth, but what she and my other CD friends don't do is thrust their panties in the general publics faces.

Please don't apologise to me for anything, we are who we are right? I come across as the forum Nazi admin... does it bother me? sometimes... but it's just an opinion... I'm still here right? I don't think anyone has the right to be showing their underwear in public, isn't that just indecent anyway? I also don't agree with people going in shops, trying on loads of clothes just for the thrill, especially when they rip the clothes and shove them back on the shelves/hangers etc.. I saw a lovely skirt once that I wanted to buy, sadly some moron had tried it on and broke the zip... instead of handing it in, they simply put it back on the hanger... could have been anyone... The point is, some people just do not know how to behave in public and they drag anyone down that is in their catergory so to speak.... such is life eh?

[Kate Simmons]

Gee, I must be doing something wrong here. I get along with everyone whether they are dressed like guy, girl or a giraffe (no, not Karen ). I've never been ashamed of my friends or being with anyone or associated with them regardless of how "good" or "bad" they look (hey, I'm not winning any beauty contests soon) or how well they "pass". I'm just happy to see them out having fun being themselves. Call me a schmuck, call me old fashioned but never, ever call me late for lunch.

[jaina]

Has anyone else encountered such attitudes from the GBLT community? Aren't we all in this together? I guess this just proves my theory to be true, that CDs are still the MOST discriminated group. Yo can be gay or transsexual, and have federally protected rights, but none for being a CD. I was really, really disappointed to come across these attitudes from people that I would expect to empathize with "us".

"us" is often the problem

Part of this is that many CD's spend so much effort separating themselves from the GLBT community, and being VERY vocal about not being part of it, that it is only natural that rifts form. Don't blame gay and TS rights organisations for succeeding. learn from their methods and stop failing.

CD's want federally protected rights, but many simply will not help. Often actually hindering the rights process by supporting oganisations that are anti-GLBT. When you don't even expect rights in personal relationships its not surprising that you fail.

You can't expect to act like being CD is something that needs to be hidden and require permission AND expect federal support for it as a lifestyle. If you are treated like a second class citizen or discriminated against it is your fault for accepting , no not accepting, but welcoming that treatment.

[Wendy me]

Kay what shocks me here is of every one you insulted put down and trashed you say your sorry to Tamara....????? please forgive me for not finding your side in this ..... i know persons from all sides of the gender issues and can't ever say i ever met any one quite like you .....

i hold no one as better than the next one ... god love you with a thought process like yours some were out there some one that thinks like you is looking down their nose at you .... why would you even waste your time coming here with all these sub stranded people ...... or perhaps in some way thinking your better than a lot of our members makes you feel good ..... ???????....

my job here is to watch out for the good of this forum and for the good of it's members ... and that means thinking of them all as people and treating them all the same no matter what title they add to their name .......

you get offended ????? abought people trying on things in your fav. shop????? my dear i get offended by some one coming here to our house shitting on our floor and insulting our members ...... your disrespect for our members (of which you are ) is not very welcome .....if this is how you truly are in real life .... i am sad for you ... i find every person has something to offer and we all grow a bit having touched each other even for a short while.......

[Genifer Teal]

Society doesn't understand a man who is happy to be a man but wants to wear womens clothing. They see it as little more than a fetish. If someone is TS and wants to become a woman, it is still not easy to accept but at least they can apply some reason to the dressing. Gay guys don't get it. I had one approach me and ask if I want to be a woman, why just pretend? In some ways I understand them perceiving it as little more than a costume. Who am I trying to fool? Even harder to understand is how can I dress this way yet be attracted to women? I am certainly not dressing to attract women.

Gen

[Wendy me]

[QUOTE=kay_jessica;1123305]This is so true, and in my experiance on Friday, my world was turned upside down because of those exhibitionist, there behaviour, trying clothes that they weren't going to buy upset the management of my favorite store so much that ALL men dressed as women were barred from the dressing rooms. I pass very well normally, and my mind boggles as to what those 6 got up to to cause such a backlash.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ad.php?t=30857


" love going out and frequently do. I can be found browsing the shops of Oxford, Milton Keynes, Bicester Village, Reading and Luton among others. I love trying on expensive dresses , the assistants are very helpfull in helping to me decide which one suits me . Only wish I could afford to buy them"


so your OK to try on things as long as the sub standard CD'S don't do it as well ??????........Kay ?????? and could you tell me just what color is your kettle????? ...............

might turning your world upside down be a bit of a good thing ??? .........

[docrobbysherry]

I have read some very hypocritical and self rightious posts on this thread. Also some wonderful, loving, caring posts! U all know which classifications u fit in!
I have gotten some of this "attitude" aimed at me on this site! Many of u consider me a " second class CD". Why? Because I stay in the closet? Or my pics don't fit the norm and I enjoy showing them off too much? Or because I sometimes speak my mind? Well, if that's how u feel, the heck with u hypocrits! U "first class normal CD's"! Yeah, rite!
All I know is; I love to dress as Sherry, and I'm excited to show her off, and I was SO happy to find this site 3 months ago. Filled with sypathetic folks, (or so I thought)! Now, I'm NOT SURE!
RS

[Kate Simmons]

Well, for what it's worth RS, I think you are pretty cool myself. Not to mention I love all of your looks and outfits.

[Violetgray]

Hm.

Let's keep in mind that inappropriate exhibitionist behavior is not exclusive to CD's. There are many people when they hear transsexual immediately think of ******* prostitutes. Sure there are many, but does that reflect the TS community as a whole? Of course not.

And lets keep in mind that most TS are CDs first, we all start in male bodies, CD and TG. What that means is that when you look at a crossdressed male, you can't really assume that the person isn't TS. I personally know a post-op woman who, as a man, was as crazy and flamboyant as ever. She used to walk into the Rave clothing store as a man, and since men and women weren't allowed in the same dressing room, demanded to try on clothes and would do so while a long line of women formed waiting for this one person.

Kay, I think that that group of CD's you were talking about would piss me off too. (I am a cd also, mind you.) But they piss you off not because they are cd's, but rather because they are a**holes. Take the whole of the CD population into consideration. How many do you think never even leave the house? Of those that do, how many do you think would try to pass? So buttheads like your Friday group are really a small percentage.

As for the TS who was so rude to you, it just seems to me like the whole house slave/field slave elitism to me, and is wrong for the same reasons.

Oh and that TG's not being honest with each other comment? Dead on.

[Shelly Preston]

The point is the behaviour of of others affects all those who go out in the community

How many here have seen a sign on a doorway only three children allowed at any one time I know I have

This has happend because of the behavior of previous children entering the premises

This is why Kay could not enter her favourite store
Can you imagine if you turn up and get refused entry because of someone else you would not be happy ( for whatever reason )

As for the TS discrimination to CD's
Well unfortunately not everyone is as tolerant as we would like

[charllote34]

Shows you that in every aspect of society , evan in those that you think you will find solice and support there are those who will mess it up for everybody , what a eye opener this thread is .

[MarciManseau]

I had a troubling experience yesterday. On one of the web communities I'm active on, I saw the profile of a young (23 yr old) male to female transsexual from my home town. I sent her a simple greeting saying I grew up in her town and that I was a CD, telling her I would enjoy chatting and finding out what was new in my old hometown. Her response was quite ugly, saying she did not appreciate being associated with me, telling me I needed fashion advice, and that I was this that and the other for my :girly fantasies", and that I should not go out in public wearing "their" clothes....

I was shocked. I was only trying to say hello and strike up a conversation. What surprised me the most was the elitist attitude, the attitude that we (CDs) were somehow inferior to trans people. Its bad enough to feel discrimination from the general populations, but from people that we are suppose t feel something "in common" with... Geeze...

I was angry, hurt, and really confused. I did pull it together and write a response, simply stating that my intent was only social, and that I was sorry she felt so put off by me (a lowly CD) trying to be social. There were a lot of negative, nasty things I could of said, considering she thought herself a real lady (sorry,a real lady would have conducted herself with much more grace), but I decided not to shrink to her level. So much for the holiday spirit, huh?

Has anyone else encountered such attitudes from the GBLT community? Aren't we all in this together? I guess this just proves my theory to be true, that CDs are still the MOST discriminated group. Yo can be gay or transsexual, and have federally protected rights, but none for being a CD. I was really, really disappointed to come across these attitudes from people that I would expect to empathize with "us".

Don't let one bad apple get to you. This trans person thinks you're cute and I love the dress you're wearing in your avatar.

Hugs and just one lil kiss Marci

[kerrianna]

Let me ask you all a question.

If the TS in her original reply to Alicia had turned her down politely and without personal attack, do you think Alicia would have felt that there was elitism and felt compelled to start this thread?

I can see the arguements from every side here as having some measure of validity for the person who is making them...but wouldn't this have been a non-issue if our young TS had a modicum of social skills and/or respect and compassion?

I thought this was more about rudeness than elitism.

Being honest ISN'T always the best policy. If we were ALL honest all the time here, there would be a lot more broken hearts and flaming...heck, this family would be torn asunder.

Live and let live.

Yes, other people are going to negatively impact your life, but that's what happens. You probably do it to other people without knowing it sometimes. There's often a way around things if you are being a kind and true person.

This is really about treating other people with respect and compassion.

[kristytv]

this whole thread makes me sick as i am a aspiring to be a ts , makes me still want to just be alone and not around anyone

[Julie York]

This thread is hilarious.

I always thought I was a CD, but I now it seems that if I could just dress nicely and pretend to be a convincing woman in public and not attract attention....... I'd be a TS.!!!!!!!

Amazing! Blue eyeshadow....CD. Brown eyeshadow....TS. It all makes sense now!





In answer to the original thread starter.
Yes there is descrimination and snobbery and (in my opinion) it is because of the perception of whether you have a choice in your actions. If you have no choice then you were "born that way" and so that's o.k. You're a nice wholesome transexual facing the uphill battle of being accepted by society for who you really are.

If however, you have a choice to present yourself as female (or not).....then you are just a hairy panty pervert.

Hope that clears everything up.

[charllote34]

Kristy, that is not the way some of us want you to feel If we cant be UNITED what chance do we have in the world ???

[Joanne f]

[QUOTE=Wendy me;1123382]

This is so true, and in my experiance on Friday, my world was turned upside down because of those exhibitionist, there behaviour, trying clothes that they weren't going to buy upset the management of my favorite store so much that ALL men dressed as women were barred from the dressing rooms. I pass very well normally, and my mind boggles as to what those 6 got up to to cause such a backlash.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ad.php?t=30857


" love going out and frequently do. I can be found browsing the shops of Oxford, Milton Keynes, Bicester Village, Reading and Luton among others. I love trying on expensive dresses , the assistants are very helpfull in helping to me decide which one suits me . Only wish I could afford to buy them"


so your OK to try on things as long as the sub standard CD'S don't do it as well ??????........Kay ?????? and could you tell me just what color is your kettle????? ...............

might turning your world upside down be a bit of a good thing ??? .........

Nice one Wendy Me lol

[barbra]

i dont know you wish i did,but,i am very sorry this happen to you,now that was very un-called for the way she did that to you.but you need to do like some of the other girls said brush it off and hold your head up and be happy for what you are and what you do.love at it like this you have more girls her that love you and want to help you,stand strong and hang on,we will rise up in front one day soon.one more thing you have a very merry happy holiday and take care of your love ones and you.may the force of love be with you.barbra.

[AmberTG]

Julie York, you always can find the bright side of these things, I must say! The eye shadow color thing, that is so true in a sarcastic way! Funny how people go by simple things like that when, as you tried to point out in your own way, it's so much more than that.
If someone is a "hairy panty fetishist", that's there own deal, and, sense we all have "skeletons in our closet", how can we point the finger and say "I'm better then you because I'm bla bla bla" As my son said to me, "we all have something"
It's much like freedom of speech, I may not like what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it.

[Christine XX]

It's interesting to me that no one here blames the shop and their SA's for Kays bad experience? A store institutes a policy of being openly biased against TS's and this is OK? And in what's known to be a T* friendly town? I'd be tempted to contact those 20 or so local TS's and begin a letter writing campaign to their headquarters. Imagine if they wouldn't let any black women try on clothing because a few had come in with too much make-up on and smudged some dresses. Where is the outrage???

This stores policy is biased. They have driven a wedge between us, and we are falling for it, and throwing stones at each other instead of seeing the true enemy.

-Christine

[Shelly Preston]

It's interesting to me that no one here blames the shop and their SA's for Kays bad experience? A store institutes a policy of being openly biased against TS's and this is OK? And in what's known to be a T* friendly town? I'd be tempted to contact those 20 or so local TS's and begin a letter writing campaign to their headquarters. Imagine if they wouldn't let any black women try on clothing because a few had come in with too much make-up on and smudged some dresses. Where is the outrage???

This stores policy is biased. They have driven a wedge between us, and we are falling for it, and throwing stones at each other instead of seeing the true enemy.

-Christine

The store policy is based on the experience that have on certain days
Kay has already said she has had no problems if the past

Given proper behavior the shop would have no need to have this policy

[kay_jessica]

[QUOTE=joanne f;1123473]

Nice one Wendy Me lol

Ah but I did go back and buy it and I wore it on Saturday.....

[Cindy N]

I think it even happens witin our own community depending on your level of CDing.

[Nicki B]

Does anyone really wear hairy panties?


Seriously, to go back to the point of the thread, I'm aware in the UK of two groups of very young TSs who have made it their business to attack what they regard as TVs and late-transitioners, they have posted videos on youtube and hosted sites ridiculing well known people.

To me that says more about their own insecurities and unhappiness that it does about their 'victims'. Alicia, just feel sorry for her?

And Kay, as I've said hre before I know TSs who don't pass because of their body shape and live their lives in fear of getting beaten up because of it. You may just want to blend into being just another woman, be it needs to become acceptable everywhere to be seen as trans..

Trying on clothes and leaving them marked is not something just confined to TVs?

[kay_jessica]

It's interesting to me that no one here blames the shop and their SA's for Kays bad experience? A store institutes a policy of being openly biased against TS's and this is OK? And in what's known to be a T* friendly town? I'd be tempted to contact those 20 or so local TS's and begin a letter writing campaign to their headquarters. Imagine if they wouldn't let any black women try on clothing because a few had come in with too much make-up on and smudged some dresses. Where is the outrage???

This stores policy is biased. They have driven a wedge between us, and we are falling for it, and throwing stones at each other instead of seeing the true enemy.

-Christine

No, I have spoken to the store manager (this after noon). She was very sympathetic. She confirmed that it was a temporary policy resulting from over £600 ($1200) worth of damaged ball gowns from a previous event. An that they weren't deliberately discriminating against transgendered. It was that this time of year they have a lot of "casual" staff and it was easier to instruct then to bar all men from trying on clothes. Apparently, she was made aware of my challenge to the SAs. To quote her, "I told them that in this case, she was almost certainly a transgendered person and would have been Ok". She told me to come back after xmas and the dress I wanted would be "available" in the sale.