Who here hates hiding

[LilSissyStevie]

You assume that all CDs want to be socially accepted for how they dress. That just isn't true. I don't want to be recognized or acknowledged in public at all. I pass best as a male so I dress in a manner that attracts the least amount of attention. If I dressed in public the way I dress in private, I guarantee you I would draw attention and I doubt you would come to my defense. I don't feel like I'm hiding when I CD at home. I'm just minding my own business. I earned my purple hearts fighting the style and clothing police in the 60's so I don't have to do it anymore. I've moved on. I'll cheer from the sidelines if you want to take up the banner but there are more important priorities in my life today.

[Duana]

Hi Duana! Given the content of your response, it is quite apparent that you are responding to my post.

I wasn't really responding to your post in particular but YOU are the one that said you'd LOVE to show your smooth legs and painted toes in public. I also find it intersting that all I did was echo what a super moderator said yet you didn't address her, only me.

Even if you are not, your response is oversimplified and naive, if this truly is what you believe. I do not know about you, but I have worked extremely hard to obtain the education, career, and wonderful family that I have. Should I risk throwing this all away in some misguided attempt to acquire "guts," simply so I can dress en femme in public?

Your entire argument is built on the premise that you'd be "throwing it all away." I say your premise is false.

Regardless, I am quite happy in my closet, thank you very much! So instead of claiming those such as I lack "guts," perhaps you would serve us all better if you took the time to think through your responses before posting such unwarranted, naive, blanket assertions.

Stay in the closet, Anne. It's CDs like you that create and perpetuate the very situation you lament.

I just drove home from work in denim short shorts, shaved legs and pink toenails. I stopped for gas, a cold drink, went to the grocery store and went to check my mail after I got home. Every day, people become MORE aware of CDs because of me. What are YOU doing for us?

[SweetIonis]

I don't know if hiding is the word that I would use. I think it's impractical to let everyone know everything about you. Perhaps if I were a saint and could survive penniless with no clothes or food, that would be practical, but for me, it's not. Therefore I prefer the words "selective disclosure". The fact is, people tend to be corrupt, deceitful, envious, cruel, angry, and vindictive. As such, you just can't reveal everything to everyone.

I do not know about you, but I have worked extremely hard to obtain the education, career, and wonderful family that I have. Should I risk throwing this all away in some misguided attempt to acquire "guts," simply so I can dress en femme in public?

I feel u big time on that Anne. I too have worked way too hard just to see it go down the drain.

[Barbara Dugan]

I hate hidding and I hate myself when I have to lie about it

[Joann Smith]

I hate hidding from anyone so because i suck at it ....the only reason i attempt to keep things on the low is because my wife says she is not ready yet ....so i am trying to be paient ...


Joann

[Angela2me]

I dream of the day a guy can wear a dress or skirt the same as a girl can wear slacks or shorts today. When what you wear is not defined by your gender and gender is not assumed by what you wear.
I would be happy to get up tomorrow and put on my hi-viz shirt with a comfortable skirt for work.
I would like to walk into a department store and not find 'dresses' in the 'ladies wear' department.

For now, I will keep dreaming and dressing in my own private world.

[TGMarla]

But if I ever could have a guarantee my life would not be ruined, I would so not hide anymore. It would be so nice.

I don't think any of us would argue that point. However, despite some of the statements made here, for many of us, revealing this part of ourselves to everyone else would seriously alter our lives and the way we live them.

Lol but then again I've been doing it so long maybe I'm used to it?

I concur. Same here.

Stay in the closet, Anne. It's CDs like you that create and perpetuate the very situation you lament.

Duana, I understand where you're coming from, and you are correct that most often, when we do get out in public, we find that we were all worried about nothing. However, your responses have been over-simplistic and prone to ignoring the fact that what works for you might not work well for everybody else. One member already mentioned that she keeps it to the home out of deference to her wife. That's called "respect", and for a marriage to work, it must have this key ingredient. Some of us simply prefer to keep this activity of ours private. Others might well get ostracized should this little secret leak out to co-workers or friends and relatives. Everyone's situation is unique and different. Statements like yours seem to blame closeted CDers for the stereotypes we all experience in our daily lives. But no one person is to blame for such stereotypes, and such things are not perpetuated by those who choose not to be public in their actions. Rather, it is most often the actions of a few extreme public examples that enforce such beliefs by an uneducated population.

I do not enjoy hiding. But neither do I want to bring this part of my life out to my friends, neighbors, and business clients. Like Anne, I have way too much to lose. This does not keep me from going out from time to time, but I'm not out having beers with my usual circle of friends during those outings. Those who would suggest that friends who would react negatively to such a revelation are not real friends are completely wrong and expressing a very narrow-minded colloquialism. I like the relationships I have with my friends right now just fine, and I choose not to change those by complicating them with crossdressing. Not one of them has ever come out to me with such a revelation either. So what does that say about them? Statistically, one of them probably crossdresses.

I fully support any crossdressers who choose to stay within the confines of their homes. I also fully support those who venture forth in the world and show the public that we are people just like anyone else. But I do not support those who would crack on others, simply because they choose to stay private, and blame them for the negative stereotypes we experience in the world.

[ReineD]

It's a given that although most people in our society don't give a second thought to the man on the street who presents as a woman, unless perhaps telling an interesting story at the dinner table that night, many such people do have quite different attitudes when it comes to family members, maybe close friends, and certainly employees. Kudos to the CDers who don't have family members or young children or employers to worry about or whose families are supportive, and who feel they don't have anything to lose by going out in public.

It is also a given that although a TS suffers similar bias, once she comes out permanently people have no choice but to either accept her, or reject her and move on. She doesn't have to deal with the question of a fluctuating gender, in other words, she has made her permanent choice and goes on with her life once all the nay-sayers have been shaken out of it.

That said, I think the desire to hide is directly proportional to the degree of gender dysphoria that a TG experiences. (see note below).

• In other words, a CD who is happy switching back and forth, who is otherwise not unhappy in male mode, will not resent keeping the dressing private from certain family members, friends, and coworkers, even though he needs to dress on a regular basis. He will find a way to balance it all.
  
  
• Whereas a CD who suffers gender dysphoria to a greater degree, and who perhaps questions whether or not he is really a CD, will resent the hiding more, as will all the people who say they would live full time in a flash if they could but who may not not consider themselves to be TS. I don't know what to make of those who just wish to present in a feminine manner all the time and who don't think of themselves as suffering gender dysphoria. Perhaps they like to use a language all their own.
  
  
• And of course TSs who do suffer full gender dysphoria simply reach a point where they can no longer present in guy mode, period.

And then, there are others who identify as male, whose manner of dress is goth, androgynous, or other, but not necessarily full-on femme all the time, who live in conservative circles and who do feel frustrated by trying to maintain a happy balance with their unconventional selves and their conventional surroundings.

-------------------------------

This is the best definition of gender dysphoria I've seen, that takes it out of the DSM "mental illness" debate. The author is Anne Vitale Ph.D., author of "The Gendered Self", who transitioned in 1980.

Quote comes from: http://www.avitale.com/FAQ.htm#category%202 question 5.

5. Are there many levels of gender variance or is it just something that you have or don't have?

Gender Identity varies from having an unquestionable sense of being male to an equally unquestionable sense of being female. Because gender identity is hormonally set, subject to variability before birth, most people fall appropriately closer to one end of the spectrum then to the other. However, pre-natal hormone availability is subject to extraneous influences, creating a gender identity continuum with some people falling somewhere in between the male/female binary. It is only when a person's location on the continuum crosses over the line into the other side from which they were assigned at birth, do we have the beginnings of gender dysphoria. The further from the middle, the more intense the dysphoria, and the more likely he or she will only find relief by transitioning.

[Pythos]

I am amazed how when I post such a Question it is imediately taken that I am relating to myself. I am just asking a straight forward question. I was curious how people here felt when it came to hiding.

That being said, I love how this came about

Whereas a CD who suffers gender dysphoria to a greater degree, and who perhaps questions whether or not he is really a CD, will resent the hiding more, as will all the people who say they would live full time in a flash if they could but who may not not consider themselves to be TS. I don't know what to make of those who just wish to present in a feminine manner all the time and who don't think of themselves as suffering gender dysphoria. Perhaps they like to use a language all their own.

This doesn't work. At least for me. Why? Well the whole proportional thing. So the more I dislike being made to wear clothing styles I don't like, the more gender dysphoric I am? Really? So if women were suddenly MADE to wear nothing but skirts...no more pants, and some really really resented that, would they too be gender dysphoric?

Really, think about that.

I am not in anyway wanting to be female. I in no way want to have a sex change. Perhaps a long while ago I gave thought to it, but realized that would be caving into societie's narrow views on how people can express themselves.

Someone here suggested that I must be a TS. NO I AM NOT. Why would I deny that if it was true. Hell my life would be so much easier if a) I was attracted to men and b) I wanted to be female.

I just wanna be who I am, and I know there are people out there that feel much the same as myself.

[docrobbysherry]

I HATE the way I look dressed! So, WHY in the world would I want to impose my ugly old puss on OTHERS!?

On the other hand, I LOVE the way Sherry looks!

But, if the general public isn't even ready for CDs, what would they think of her!?

Sherry and I LOVE our cozy closet!

[Jorja]

Will coming out into the open, cost you something that you are not prepared to pay? r ourselves have to make our own choices. Fear may be a factor, but is the fear justified?

Having been there and paid the price over and over for my decision, I think this part of Gillian's post sums it up completely

[ReineD]

Pythos, my post was a summary of the different scenarios that give rise to the feelings about hiding and as stated, the bullet points apply to the gender dysphoric people who responded in this thread. If you aren't gender dysphoric, you might better relate to the paragraph immediately under the bullet points.

[Badtranny]

Someone here suggested that I must be a TS. NO I AM NOT. Why would I deny that if it was true. Hell my life would be so much easier if a) I was attracted to men and b) I wanted to be female.
I just wanna be who I am, and I know there are people out there that feel much the same as myself.

Sorry Pythos, that was me, and I'm sorry for the mistake. I certainly didn't mean any offense, on the contrary I consider being called a TS to be positive if not a compliment. I guess I was basically just trying to say that I relate to you a bit.

Re: why would you deny it? Well, I don't know but I denied it for quite some time before I was finally forced to face it.

The bottom line is I understand the hiding for those that just like to get their freak on, but for "people" like you I think it's only a matter of time before you find your expression and lose your fear. Personally, I just want to be treated like a girl. ;-)

[Marissa]

***Quotes are modified***

Your entire argument is built on the premise that you'd be "throwing it all away." I say your premise is false.

Stay in the closet, Anne. It's CDs like you that create and perpetuate the very situation you lament.

Thank you for DIRECTING someone on what to do..and that ITS THEIR fault for what comes from it..WHO are you to decide what is best for another person???? What works for you, does not work for another. How self centered is that type of thought!!!!

She has a lot to lose if the world knows of her desires.. that is simply stated as her views/thoughts. So let her be the judge of that...not you.

And..dang..guess I"m one of those CDs that creates and perpetuates the very situation you lament Love how one who knows all..can decide.. should I bow now or wait for the strike of thunder..

I give you so much credit to live your life as you wish.. enjoy it..

I am amazed how when I post such a Question it is imediately taken that I am relating to myself. I am just asking a straight forward question. I was curious how people here felt when it came to hiding.

That being said, I love how this came about

How quick are those to think its ourselves that we speak of when we say "I have a friend..."..so you ask a question..without stating its not your beliefs, etc.. its not surprising that some will assume its you.. sorry for that..but lately you have thrown a lot of questions out to all..so this is just another one..

If for a friend or others, hope you find the anwers..if for you..again..the same.. good luck

[Pythos]

And then, there are others who identify as male, whose manner of dress is goth, androgynous, or other, but not necessarily full-on femme all the time, who live in conservative circles and who do feel frustrated by trying to maintain a happy balance with their unconventional selves and their conventional surroundings

*COMPLETE FOREHEAD SMACK*

I am so sorry RenieD, I completely missed that, very unusal for me. Yes, this fits me to a "T"!!!

Mmmmmm, crow is tasty this season.

Bad tranny,

It seems misunderstandings and eating crow are popular tonight. LOL.

[Duana]

That said, I think the desire to hide is directly proportional to the degree of gender dysphoria that a TG experiences. (see note below).

• In other words, a CD who is happy switching back and forth, who is otherwise not unhappy in male mode, will not resent keeping the dressing private from certain family members, friends, and coworkers, even though he needs to dress on a regular basis. He will find a way to balance it all.
  
• Whereas a CD who suffers gender dysphoria to a greater degree, and who perhaps questions whether or not he is really a CD, will resent the hiding more, as will all the people who say they would live full time in a flash if they could but who may not not consider themselves to be TS. I don't know what to make of those who just wish to present in a feminine manner all the time and who don't think of themselves as suffering gender dysphoria. Perhaps they like to use a language all their own.

Only speaking for myself, you are completely wrong. Never in my life have I had a single symptom of gender dysphoria, right up to the instant I'm typing this.

All those hiding in the closet, by their own admission, wish they didn't have to. They lack balls so perhaps THEY are the ones with gender dysphoria. All this nonsense about risking careers, families, etc is an excuse. And it also happens to be a fear, just like I said earlier. Fear of losing your job.

Guess what? I hold a decent job. I direct more than a dozen engineers in a company with more than 100 employees and I report directly to the president. Guess what else? If he saw me dressed, he'd probably laugh about it and move on. You know why? Because I'm freaking valuable to my company. They don't want to do without me, crossdresser or not. If you're worried about losing your precious career, maybe you should concentrate more on your job and less on your dressing.

Courage is not the lack of fear. Courage is feeling the fear and doing it anyway. That's what I did. 65-70% of you out there are too scared to take the first step and that's the truth. All this talk about jobs, family, friends etc is easily overcome by doing it in a different location. You don't have the guts. The first time I went out, my heart rate was hovering around 165 the whole time. I couldn't even drive. I stayed in panic mode the entire night. But I did it and that's more than most here can say. And I did it within weeks of starting to dress. The thought of dressing to the nines and prancing around the house for years is just pathetic.

Many of you would do well to study a thing called "comfort zones." Once a comfort zone is expanded it NEVER shrinks back to its original size. It can only grow. Every time you do a scary thing, it is less scary. But you have to man-up and do it the first time.

Something to think about...

Imagine if the 29,300 members of this forum all agreed to go out once a week and talk with at least 10 strangers about crossdressing. We would educate 293,000 people a week, 10 weeks = 3 million people and in a year over 15 million people would know more about crossdressers. It would be more accepted. We would suffer less ridicule. People would expand their OWN comfort zones.

But that's not going to happen until some people grow some sack.

[TGMarla]

Duana, your tag line says "Just trying to love and understand." But your words show distain and a lack of understanding.

[Duana]

FYI: Just got back from the grocery store. I wore skimpy little shorts showing ALL my epilated legs and my pink tonails, through the straps of my silver 3" sandals. I actually enjoy going to the grocery store now. Guess what happened? Nothing. I didn't lose my job. I didn't see a neighbor. Nobody made fun of me. My kids still love me.

Duana, your tag line says "Just trying to love and understand." But your words show distain and a lack of understanding.

Not from my point of view.

I "understand" closeted CDs are in the grips of fear, whether you do or not.

Case in point: Several have expressed concerns over the consequences with their jobs. That is fear.

I "love" you all, more than you love yourselves. I know you'd be happier if you got out of the closet. I want you all to be as happy as I am.

Case in point: One in this thread mentioned she'd LOVE to go out in public with shaved legs and painted toes therefore, she'd be happier if she were free to do so. (which she really is)

Now if you're saying I should understand the closeted position of fear, I do. I experienced it myself, as I clearly related above. The difference is, I didn't let it paralyze me and keep me less happy than I am now.

Do I sympathize with closeted CDs? No. They, as Nigella said, are in full control of their destiny. You get empathy but not sympathy.

[ReineD]

*COMPLETE FOREHEAD SMACK*

I am so sorry RenieD, I completely missed that, very unusal for me. Yes, this fits me to a "T"!!!

Mmmmmm, crow is tasty this season.

Bad tranny,

It seems misunderstandings and eating crow are popular tonight. LOL.

That's OK, Pythos. We can fight in one thread, and be friends in another. lol

[girlalex]

I hate hiding to. But like your self I'm hiding from my mom and co workers, yet with friends I'm more flexible yet not out completely. I know what you mean. I hate
hiding too. Sometimes it feels like I'm suffocating. It sucks and it got to change.

[chrismy]

hate to hide... spent 3 hours on hair the other morning just to be able to enjoy it for a couple of hours before having to wash it all out and away,,,, but hey .. if thats the worst thing happened to me that day ... i had it made in the shade sister....

[AliceJaneInNewcastle]

You hide because you fear, your choice, plain and simple.

I think that this quotation summarises it quite well:

"Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they're yours." - Richard Bach, "Illusions"

Nail, meet hammer.

There's only one reason why anyone can't keep their body smooth and toes painted... guts.

I wouldn't have used the word guts. I would have said fear. That fear might be completely irrational, or it might be constructed based upon perceived negatives, which themselves may be rational or irrational.

Why you'd bother painting your toe nails that are hidden in shoes rather than your fingernails, which are on display almost constantly, I don't know. I'm a CD and an engineer working in a male dominated industry. I go out en femme on average about once a week. This is how my fingernails look all of the time, with no negative comments from anybody:

I'm gonna swing in here in defense of my cross-dressing sisters. I don't think Pythos really falls into this category, but there is no reason why a part time cross dresser needs to "come out" to anyone outside of their inner circle. What would be the point?

As a CD, I disagree. I find it very liberating to be out to people. Hiding means continuing to accept being stigmatised. What would be the point of hiding unnecessarily?

Kudos to the CDers who don't have family members or young children or employers to worry about or whose families are supportive, and who feel they don't have anything to lose by going out in public.

As a married CD with a supportive wife and an 8yo son, I used to hide my CDing from most people around me for fear of negative impacts upon my wife and son. Over time, it became more and more obvious that my fear was irrational, so I stopped hiding. Having my nails long and painted was part of that. I believe that the majority (but not all) of the fear that other CDs express about being out is also irrational.

I believe that in western countries, at least 50% of CDs who actually want to go out, or actively do go out, could be completely open about who they are and what they do with negligible negative consequences. Most won't believe it, but I believe that I'm being extremely conservative by saying 50%. I believe that the number could actually be over 98% depending upon the threshold used to define "negligible".

[Jenniferathome]

Duana, more power to you! You are the MLK of cross dressers. If you really want to attract others to join your cause, you might try a more positive approach. As the old adage goes, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Of course you can catch the most flies with dead squirrels but that's not too important here. Best of luck.

[ReineD]

Only speaking for myself, you are completely wrong. Never in my life have I had a single symptom of gender dysphoria, right up to the instant I'm typing this.

Duana, did you read the first paragraph in my analysis? The one that says, "Kudos to all the CDers who don't feel they have anything to lose?" This is obviously your situation and truly, I am glad for you. It is also my SO's situation. She goes out frequently alone and with me. And you both fit somewhere in the first category, the CDers who have no (or little) gender dysphoria and who are happy switching back and forth. The CDers who find ways to balance it all. I'm assuming you are balancing something, else you'd be full time?

And did you also read Dr. Vitale's assessment of sliding scale gender identity, that places men who do like to present as women as being somewhere in the middle between "unquestionably male" and "unquestionably female", since I'm assuming that something drives the desire to present as a woman (with breast forms, makeup and wig) other than just liking the clothes? (Else why the forms, wigs, and makeup?)

Now, if you consistently never present as a full-on woman and you go out dressed as a guy who is wearing a skirt and not attempting to present as a woman, then you fall in the paragraph under the bullet points, the one that describes people who have no gender dysphoria but who have unconventional tastes in clothing.

My one big issue with your points though, is that you put down others who haven't constructed their lives like you have, or who don't live in the same social milieu as you do, who have different families including children than you do. It's the height of arrogance, I think, to believe that what works for you should also work for everyone else.

[t-girlxsophie]

If there was a guarantee that friends and family that don't know (or approve) of my dressing would magically come round,then I would be out there loud and proud.But that Utopia don't exist sadly,Im out to those that I feel comfortable sharing this part of me with (its actually got much larger through the years),But I have too much to lose if certain ppl I care deeply about found out.eg when my son found out we never spoke in 4 month,almost lost him (and im not being melodramatic )

And to those who say your not helping the cause,"Walk a mile in my shoes" because how the hell can you judge anyone that in most cases you havent a scoobys about,bar their name on a computer screen.Lets all have "balls" and to hell with the consequences,what a &*%$£ idiotic notion.Insults and name calling say more about the ones hurling them,than it does the ones that the Insults are aimed at

Sophie