As with Eddie Izzard, the first half of the term correctly describes you. If you liked to dress up as a gorilla when you have sex with a woman, would you say that you were engaging in bestiality? I very much doubt that you would. What you engaged in with these women who had almost given up on men was straightforward heterosexual relations, albeit with a little bit of role play. You underline the fact by mentioning that you used your male genitalia to bring them enjoyment.
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This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
I dont care what you call me, just don't call me late to supper!
Well said Rianna, this guy is really kidding himself to be calling himself a "male lesbian". I have been chatting to a few ofOriginally Posted by Rianna Humble
my girlfriends from my local lesbians group about this topic this weekend and they think its very funny that guys think
they can claim to be a "male lesbian".A trans-woman yes, but a Male Crossdresser - no way! I would so dearly love
for this guy to walk into one of our events claiming to be a "male lesbian", Meh thinks that the scene would get very
ugly fast that there would be very little left of this person after making such an outlandish claim and statement.
The butch lesbians alone would eat him for breakfast only stopping
to spit out the bones of a fake imposing themselves on their girls
It takes a LOT more than simply dressing up as a female to be truly accepted as a female, especially by a lesbian community
and I should know something about this because I do actually belong to one, not like others here who are still dreemian
Last edited by Melody Moore; 10-09-2011 at 04:29 AM.
"Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
"Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
"Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
"The most happiest people in this world don't need the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"'
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Let us get real. TO BE A LESBIAN YOU HAVE TO BE A REAL WOMAN. All the rest is metaphor or attempts at neologism.
Still, this has been a brilliant discussion.
Last edited by Beth-Lock; 10-09-2011 at 06:15 AM.
It is a funny way to answer the "If you dress in women's clothes then you must be gay." idea. No, I'm a lesbian when dressed, because I still am only attracted to women. Eddie probably thought it quicker and funnier than the whole serious explanation about gender expression being different from sexual orientation. Kinda tough to make that speach sound funny.
This is just priceless. A claim of transwoman superiority coupled with the fantasy of butch lesbians violently enforcing your elevated status for you. Nice. Very nice.Well said Rianna, this guy is really kidding himself to be calling himself a "male lesbian". I have been chatting to a few of
my girlfriends from my local lesbians group about this topic this weekend and they think its very funny that guys think
they can claim to be a "male lesbian".
for this guy to walk into one of our events claiming to be a "male lesbian", Meh thinks that the scene would get very
ugly fast that there would be very little left of this person after making such an outlandish claim and statement.
The butch lesbians alone would eat him for breakfast only stopping
to spit out the bones of a fake imposing themselves on their girls
It takes a LOT more than simply dressing up as a female to be truly accepted as a female, especially by a lesbian community
and I should know something about this because I do actually belong to one, not like others here who are still dreemian
I know there are hateful people in all groups, but I doubt your friends would want to be associated with beating the snot out of TGs. Why don't you repost what you wrote above on your lesbian forum and see what sort of reaction it gets?
Exactly! I'm speaking metaphorically. Obviously, I'm not claiming to be literally a lesbian, since I've already stated that I know I'm not really a woman.
But again, I don't care two flips about the term. What's bothering me are the tiresome word police treating it like the crime of the century.
Is that how it is for you?
No wonder some women would feel like it's an invasion.
[SIZE="4"]Momarie[/SIZE]
Sophie, being accepted into a lesbian community is not easy and you think you can do it as a
crossdresser, then you go for it. I am not claiming an elevated status over you, it was granted
me and other trans-women I know because they believe we are a lot more genuine as women.
So don't blame me if they accept people like me and not you. This isn't a personal thing you know,
this is just how life really is in the lesbian community. So just deal with it.
"Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
"Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
"Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
"The most happiest people in this world don't need the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"'
Find me on Facebook
Why all the nasty comments and bickering back and forth with each other about "whos this" and "whos not that"........What the hell does it prove?
In the OP it states that this guy is a comedian, Comedians make jokes and thats exactly what this thread was about until it was derailed with holyier than thou attitudes. I have lesbian friends, the butch kind too and they dont really give a crap what you call yourself. And i have heard the "male lesbian" joke more than once at the bar with hanging out with friends.....you know what? they all laughed, including the lesbian couples that frequent our favorite watering hole. So that really makes this whole arguement subjective to your situation.
Funny is funny. Get over it ppl
-Donni-
OK folks, I can see the beginings of a flame war starting here, just a reminder, take any individual differences of opinion to PM or be prepared for moderating action being taken.
Nigella
Moderator
Right on Kitty! Describes me to a "T". I'm very oral with women.
I believe I was a lesbian in a previous lifetime.
A trans-woman yes, but a Male Crossdresser - no way! I would so dearly love for this guy to walk into one of our events claiming to be a "male lesbian", Meh thinks that the scene would get very ugly fast that there would be very little left of this person after making such an outlandish claim and statement.
The butch lesbians alone would eat him for breakfast only stopping
to spit out the bones of a fake imposing themselves on their girlsMelody, I don't agree with your allegation that crossdressers are "fake". CDs express a genuine aspect of their psyches, even if it is not full time. There is a very real feeling of being feminine, and it shouldn't be laughed at. You're at one end of the gender binary so things may seem relatively clear for you internally, but there is a very real, and even more difficult gender space to navigate and this is dealing with a blended gender. The terms used to identify who a person is can certainly be debated, but I agree with Sophie, you are coming off as if you are superior right now even if it is not your intent.
Also, there are lesbians who feel that any birth male, even a post-op TS, is a fake woman. Some lesbian groups are quite militant about this. They are purists and they don't even recognize transmen as being male.
Words are important Sophie, especially in a forum like this one where there are so many different subsections of the community. I think it's important for people to agree on at least a few basic terms, if only to avoid battles like this in the future.
It proves there is a need to come up with universal language. It might be easier for one group of people to be blissfully unaware of other groups and use the language they want without considering how anyone else feels about it, but this type of attitude does nothing to help the community understand itself and grow as a whole.
Yes, the OP started this thread on a light note. But, he or she also asked how people feel about the term, and like it or not, a term such as 'male lesbian' defines not only sexual preference but also core gender identity and this is a deep and sensitive issue for many people here. You can't start a thread, ask people how they feel about core matters, and then expect the discussion to remain lighthearted.
To everyone, I agree with Nigella ... let's please continue the discussion but be sensitive enough to not be insulting to others, else this thread will be closed.
Reine
Shouldn't we also stop using "gay woman" then?
But, these aren't "words" that are being discussed. These are labels and that's a whole different thing. There is nothing universal about labels. Their entire reason for existence is to limit and define based on others views. There is nothing good that comes from them as shown here in this thread. There are people that are in the same "group" that don't see things the same at all because "groups" are made up of people. Unique and different despite similarities.
I shared my first experience was with a girl that was a lesbian. Many of her friends that were lesbians hated me because I was "bi". She loved me very much and we still keep in touch every once in a while, years later. Some of her friends were also very accepting and supportive of us as well. They didn't see me as anything but Elle.
How does defining clear up differences in perceptions that run very deep? How has establishing "rules" for who is included and who isn't ever worked out? Who is going to be the decider?
Meh, i just think the term is kind of a oxymoron and should be taken as funny, much in the same way as "jumbo shrimp or little giant". Because the whole premise of the term lesbian describes a female individual (be that internally or as externally) and that counteracts the pre-fix of "male". Anytime i have heard the term outside of these forums it has always been in a lighthearted manner. Its meant to be taken as funny and maybe even an attempt by the macho guy crowd to use as a social bridge to find something in common with their lesbian friends.
-Donni-
Such seriousness for such a benign comment made by a comedian. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and as evidenced by many of us on here, so is gender. I fail to see how it could offend, and it makes me wonder if shrimp are as offended by being called "jumbo." It's a statement by a comedian made to be funny. Why is it funny? Because it's an oxymoron. Is it meant literal? Probably not, and I doubt it matters much either way.
Seriously!Wow! The simple turn of a phrase by a comedian seems to have put some folks on attack mode! Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of this on the forum lately....
...Let's try to increase the peace a little bit. Nobody is on this forum to get kicked in the teeth!
Debby
Seems some people are turning to the Wikipedia page on Eddie instead of actually listening to his routine. He's actually very amusing.
I hate having to keep defining words for people. As Eddie says, 'most transvestites fancy girls', and he only mentions "male lesbian" as a metaphor - not as a definition.
Jody, you know I respect you immensely, but
The OP asked how people feel about the term!
The term "male lesbian" is touted all over the forum, not just in this thread. Of course some people will have strong opinions about this especially since the term not only defines sexual preference, it defines core gender ID. Why shouldn't members give their opinions after having been asked to?
This is why it is important to have intelligent discussions about the words. I gave an example in another thread once, of a mother deciding that the term ADD (attention deficit disorder) doesn't exactly fit her child's personality, so she tells the teachers her child has DPI (dilligence paucity irregularity), and expects to avail her child of the school's resources for ADD.
Defining conditions is so important that the WPATH (World Professional Association for Transgender Health) defines some important words in the Standards Of Care (SOC), that determines how best to help people with gender dysphoria and gender non-conformity. Establishing common language is crucial for people to define who they are, communicate it to others, and have it be understood. I agree there is no need to hurl insults, to laugh, or to consider one group as being superior to the other. But, to refuse to engage in a discussion about what things mean by saying they are all just labels I'm afraid is burying one's head in the sand.
Reine
Would you feel the same way if it had been used by someone attempting to discriminate against you? Neither did I.
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
If I understand the conversation, when you are dressed as a women you would be interested in women, not mean. So you would be considered a Lesbian. I don't understand why you would put male in front of Lesbian if you want to be considered a female.
Well, if a guy who identifies as a male during times when he is not dressed and who uses his male body parts when he has sex with women, says he is a lesbian, then he is lying if the definition for lesbian is one woman who is attracted to the other. He is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a woman even if he likes to fantasize that he is when he is having sex. That said, if he and his partner like to role play in the bedroom and are both having fun with the fantasy they are lesbian, this is fine. It is more than fine, it is great!But to say that the fantasy is the reality is a completely different matter. And the CDs here who seriously identify as lesbian are confusing the two.
So ... since my idea of "dreemian" didn't take off (not surprising, lol), I'm proposing a different idea. The new way a CD who identifies as a woman when dressed and who enjoys sex with a GG can identify himself as ...
.
.
.
.
.
(drum roll)
.
.
.
.
MLJK (or) MLFTTB - ([SIZE="1"]male-lesbian-just-kidding (or) male-lesbian-for-the-time-being[/SIZE]).
Folks ... this is my attempt to lighten this thread up a little.
Reine
So, if you have too be a real women to be called a Lesbian then it is a mute question. Right.
I resent and am deeply offended by that remark!!!!
My native language is French, and I am certainly not toast!
Reine
I like that phrase and definitely consider myself one as I am always attracted to women even when I feel like a woman myself
no because the term "gay" is correct for both male and female. Such as gay woman and gay man.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
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“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
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