A Question For Everyone TS/IS/CD Or Otherwise.

[Raychel Torn]

I love children and would not have given up a second of the time I have spent raising all seven of them, (no I am not Catholic or Mormon, LOL). A cost benefit analysis can't give you a reasoned answer. Its a love thing and it is worth it.

[AllieSF]

Julia, Thanks for your clarification. Reading your posts and then you short history reminds me of the lead character in current TV program called, I think I am remembering it correctly, "The Big Bang Theory". He is a highly intelligent person with very little successful real life experience interfacing with others not so intelligent. His mind functions only one way, logically and he remembers everything. I have met people just like that and it always makes for interesting conversations. He reminds me of Mork in the old "Mork and Mindy" TV series. In that program he was an intelligent alien sent to earth to live and learn. So everything he said was logical (and funny) as he learned how humans use their language to communicate.

So reading your explanation helps me understand partially where you are coming from. You have been a member long enough here and I think are more than intelligent enough to understand that we don't always put the correct words down in our posts for all concerned to clearly understand, try as best as we can. Therefore, I can only recommend that you try to give a little back ground when asking a question like you asked. Breed does mean to procreate, but in common language usage it is used with regards to animals for food or entertainment (race horses), zoos for maintaining endangered species, but hardly ever when referring to humans. When used by humans and referencing humans, most people would take that as a negative or a humorous comment toward having children. Add to that you used two negative example reasons that would easily lead others, myself included, to think that you have a very negative view of having children. Maybe if you were raised in a more typical family situation with siblings, a mother and a father and all that entails you would better understand.

Personally, wanting or not wanting children is up to the individual and later the couple if that ever happens. In fact, just as a CD/TG/TS should eventually reveal their gender/sexual orientation to their partner and maybe future wife or husband prior to making a long term commitment, the same should be made with regard to wanting and having through conception or adoption children of their own. And, yes, to some having children with all the pains and sorrows, burdens and joys is right at the top of their priority list for living their lives.

[StevieTV]

My brother has kids as well as my sister. I never felt like breeding, but I do appreciate others that have as I'll need their tax dollars when I retire

[Alice Torn]

Julia, I must say, that I can indeed relate to your position. Breed was not the best word to use, though. I am the unwanteds baby of the dysfunctional in the extreme family. I was tortured mentally and emotionally both at home, and at schools. I wanted to die, much of my life, and have NEVER wanted to procreate, or multiply, or breed. My sister is the oldest, and 64. She has never, ever wanted to marry and have offspring! My older twin brothers are in prison now, and they slept around with women. One married a foreign woman, and had one son. That's all. That boy, fathered a boy out of wedlock. I had aunts, and uncles who never married, nor had kids. Family to me, was synonymous, with hell on earth! In the church i have been with, almost everyone was married, with kids. But, i strongly disagree, with those, who say that "Be fruitful and multiply" was meant for all times!!! In the Bible, "be fruitful and multiply", was told to Adam and Eve, and Noah's family, and Abraham. That was thousands of years ago, when the planet had few people! Even Christ, said that in the end times, "woe to those who are with little children, and those who give suck, in those days", for there will be great distress in the land." Matthew 24. I realize that us, who have never wanted to procreate, are in the tiniest minority. Most of us in this minority have lived tramatic childhoods, and hellish families, and we are permanently scarred. I guess "live and let live", is the best policy, and acceptance should be shown, to us without childresn and, acceptance shown to those who wanted children.

[DebbieL]

Even as a kid I liked to play house and be the mommy. I had a baby doll before my little brother was born, and when he was born, I was only 3 years old, but I enjoyed holding him, feeding him, and even helping mommy change his diapers. Back in those days, we had cloth diapers with safety pins, so I didn't get to actually change the diapers.

Even though I knew sex changes were possible back in 1978, I also knew that once I had made the change, I wouldn't be able to have children. As it was, I was born with Cryptorchidism, so there was a good chance that I wouldn't be able to have children anyway.

I had somehow hoped that if I got married and was having sex on a regular basis, that I would not want to be a girl anymore. I still wanted to dress, and couldn't have an orgasm if I didn't dress up at least a little. My wife ended up having two children, but I would not make any significant bets that a blood test would show I was the father. My wife was B-, I was A+, and by son was O+. I know for a fact that my wife had gotten drunk to the point of black-out at a place where there were available men, about a week before each child was conceived. I also know that she got very "Frisky" when she would get that intoxicated.

I loved having the children, and loved taking care of them. I especially looked forward to buying dresses for my daughter, and playing Barbies with her, and just having her be a girl.

Unfortunately, my wife couldn't deal with my dressing, decided she didn't want to have sex (from the time my son was conceived to the time I found out about her affair, we had sex about 3 times a year, on average). I could even deal with being a cuckhold and letting her have her affair, but when her lover decided he wanted to marry her, she tried to get as much child support as she could, working part-time so that I would have to pay day-care as part of the divorce decree, but once the divorce was final, she did everything she could to cut me out of the children's lives. I took a huge cut in pay to work in the same town where the kids lived, but when Leslie told me that I had to stop seeing the kids or she would have a social worker from the school write a letter saying that I should not be allowed to see the kids because it was bad for the kids. My ex-wife met the social worker at her Nazarene church (her new husband's church). I took an engagement in New York for six months, hoping that things would be smoothed over, and then I could come back and see the kids again.

When it got to the point where I couldn't even have a private phone call with the kids, I finally decided to just call once every two weeks for 30 minutes. Even that wasn't reliable, because if I called the same time twice in a row, they would be away from the house the third time. The kids almost became like strangers, or more like grandchildren. I tried to fly home for visits several times, but each time I showed up, my ex would tell me that the kids didn't have any free time.

I still like to see my kids, and I have been to Colorado to see my first grandchild, but each trip is frustrating, because the kids are all grown up and have busy schedules. I have not yet seen my new granddaughter, born about 3 weeks ago.

Had I known what I know now, I would have gone ahead with the sex change when I was 20 or 25, and would not have married that first wife. I would not have wanted to have children, especially children that were only for making payments for, but not for me to see. Instead I was expected to pay more than half my after-tax income for another 15 years. Although, after that, I continued to help my daughter with monthly payments directly to her with the stipulation that she was not allowed to pay rent to her mother.

Maybe, if I had gone through the transition, I might have met a nice partner (male?), and would have been able to adopt children or be a foster parent. In today's world that would be possible, but 30 years ago, it was not an option.

[LeaP]

Many people here have children.

My question is what was your motivation to breed?

I have to assume they are a burden to you due to either what you do or who you are.

Was it your spouse's pressure on you to do so?

Was it perhaps your parent's whining that coerced you.

What was your motivation?

I'm asking in a kind and considerate manner.

Thanks for your time.


Julia

Love, love of children, love of family.

A load at times, not a burden.

100% mutually decided for each.

The notion of my parents whining is laughable.

See answer #1.

Julia, you need to read as you will be read. Kindness and consideration run on social graces. Intent, even stated intent, isn't a substitute.

Lea

[Julia_in_Pa]

Everyone,

I again thank you for your insight. My first statement in hindsight seems somewhat rude.
If I have offended you I certainly apologize.

I'm very successful at mimicking social interaction with people not unlike teaching a parrot to mimic sounds.

I'm saddened to say there is a large ethereal gulf between what I feel and what I have to say in social interaction.

I'm a very good actor and no one knows that I am blank behind the words used to integrate myself with others.

I've treated all of you as subject matter instead of human beings and for that I have learned to apologize so please accept my apology.

I still have a difficult time differentiating between humans being statistical graphs and being living breathing creatures.

Thank you again


Julia

[Cynthia Anne]

I guess I'm one of those that found humor in this thing called breeding! OH! WHAT FUN IT IS! I do understand your reasoning on this and commend you for your straight forwardness! I take no offense on your choice of words! As soon as I become better then you I will redicue and judge you! Until that happens I will continue supporting and loving all of my sisters! Until then, hugs!

[Jonianne]

Julia, if you get the chance, sit down and watch "The Family Man" with Nicolas Cage and Tea Leoni.

There are no words to fully describe why most people want familys. Just to want to have the life connection to others and help little ones grow up the best way you can.

Let your heart be touched by others and see how wonderful you feel when you touch their hearts. Let the emotions sink in. Emotions are what make us human. I spent nearly 8 years in weekly therapy before I was able to "feel" to any degree.

[Debglam]

I'm saddened to say there is a large ethereal gulf between what I feel and what I have to say in social interaction.

Julia,

I think I get the question now and I will take a stab at it. I think what you are asking is almost inarticulatable. By analogy, it is like trying to explain transsexualism to someone completely cisgendered. You know what it feels like but how do you explain that in words?

A one word answer would be "love" but what does that mean? For me, it is a feeling so great and overpowering as between my wife and I that I think the natural expansion of that feeling is a desire to have children. Our love for them is as great if not greater than our love for each other. Simple as that. Clearly feeling that way means that while they may be pains in the rear end at times, they are NEVER burdens!

It may be possible to boil that down to biology, just like there is probably some base cause for transgenderism, but aren’t the internal feelings what is Really important to the individual?

Debby

[Gaby2]

I guess I'm one of those that found humor in this thing called breeding! OH! WHAT FUN IT IS! I do understand your reasoning on this and commend you for your straight forwardness! ...

I feel much the same way as, Cynthia Anne.

At about the age of 23, I can remember a desire to have kids that accompanied my desire to be with and marry the girl I had fallen in love with.
By the time we were 30 everything seemed just right and we were blessed with our first daughter.
Difficult (and mostly wonderful) times followed, our wish for a second child just didn't "materialise" (oops... "breeding" related) and we eventually decided to build a house.
We took a rather dramatic decision to move back to the town where she grew up.

Shortly afterwards, our younger daughter "happened" ("").
I cannot describe my and our happiness. It was out of this world.

For various reasons, I had a vasectomy a year later.
One of the main reasons though, was that I had a feeling that if I had another toddler to take care of... well, then that would be the end of my life outside of home.

I was a stay-at-home Dad who somehow kept his music career going... but it was a hard, thankless and a mostly futile effort.

The desire to have children waned as time passed by.
Indeed, I was developing a dreaded fear of it...
I had noticed that the bonding between my wife and I had somehow and unintentionally stopped.

We unfortunately didn't realise that we would have needed help to avoid drifting apart.
Since separating, I try my best to support my Ex fully with raising the kids... but she always has the final say... I trust her judgement as much as I trusted her from the word go.

I've always believed that she decided when our children were conceived - in a subconcious way. I was simply... well, there at the time... and her chosen "breeder"

Being sterile is something we have in common, Julia.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Gaby

[marlaNYC]

I have to assume they are a burden to you due to either what you do or who you are.

why would you assume such a thing?

[cassandra54]

i don't have any children of my own, that i am aware of. we all know how wild things were back in the 70's. however even at my age if an opportunity for a relationship presented itself where a woman would accept me being TG and she would want children, i would provided it was a solid relationship. mind you if a woman did accept my TG it would probably be a solid relationship.

i tend to think having at least one child is a way to continue your heritage, your name and a part of what one has worked so hard to accomplish in life. there are more than a few people on here who have children and children that know and approve of them being CDs or TGs.

[Inna]

It sort of happened, my whole life sort of happened and until recent it sort of was happening until I realized that what I considered happening was mere shadow of a journey it could have been.

[AllieSF]

Yes, Inna, that actually happens to a lot of us. We just live and never question the why's. So, now you are coming to that realization of who you are and how you lived your life letting it happen and are determined to control at least part of that happening from now on. I, and I would guess many here, understand that. We are also very happy for you even if we are not TS and can never walk in your shoes. But, we have walked in our own shoes and still have a lot to offer, including love, understanding when we see that we are not talking to a cast in concrete wall, support and a lot of other little things that can specifically help you through your path. I have heard and experienced this so many times, a friendly smile, a word of encouragement can really keep one going through the tough times. Give us a chance, we are actually very good, decent and wonderful human beings, whether CD, TG, Straight, Bi, gay or whatever.

[Dixie]

I had children because I love them. I've always wanted children and I'm proud of my children all of them. It was easy to be offended at the question but I decided that was not the intent. I love my kids with all my heart and they mean more to me than anything including dressing or even my own happiness. My happiness is their happiness.

[andrea69j]

My wife and I both wanted kids and I felt we needed to do what we could to counteract the slow slide in our collective intelligence.

[Sophie86]

My question is what was your motivation to breed?

First of all, I agree with the others that that's not a polite way to put it.

I have wanted to be a dad for as long as I can remember. I already had names picked out for my first child--whether boy or girl--when I was a teenager. Back then, I wanted about four or five. I later decided that two would be plenty. I can't explain why I wanted to be a dad any better than I can explain why I crossdress. I can say that I enjoy it as much as I thought I would, if not more.

I have to assume they are a burden to you due to either what you do or who you are.

Not in the least. They have filled my life with joy. If I ever had to choose between parenthood and being a CD, I would choose parenthood without a second thought. Fortunately, that choice isn't necessary. Both children know what I do and have seen me dressed. Getting it completely sorted out is still a work in progress, but there haven't been any significant problems so far.

My interest revolves around the fact that society as a whole is degenerating at a alarming rate with each subsequent generation being poorer than the last.

When my dad was a kid, he lived in a log cabin with a fireplace for heat, no AC, no electricity, and no phone. He has all those things now, plus a whole lot more. So do I. I expect my kids to have even more. I think you lack historical perspective.

[Michelia]

Julia,

Upon starting to read this thread, you reminded me of Dr. Spock. He would have asked these questions in the same way you did.

I just had to read the whole thread because it did not seem real to me. After reading it all, I now realize you are gifted in some ways...yet have been so shortchanged in others. It must be so perplexing to view people having children and trying to understand it logically and/or philosophically.

I have no problem with the terms you are using. We humans tend to distance ourselves from the rest of the animal kingdom, without realizing that animals also experience feelings. They also teach and protect their young and prepare them for life. I know this as I had a farm once with many different kinds of animals. And I am not even talking primates. In some ways, animals are so much better than we are. They do not hurt others just for the sake of it.

I was ready to have kids late in life. And I have no regrets. Rather than it having been a burden for me, it has given me great motivation and kept me going through many difficult times. I might not be here if it was not for my child. Knowing that he depends on me has kept me from throwing in the towel more than once. The times we have been together have been some of the happiest times of my life. The love we experience and the bond that develops with your child is like nothing else.

You see it as a burden. That is maybe because you have only had to worry about yourself. When you have a child you give of yourself in a selfless way. It brings out the best in you. It adds more love to your life than you ever thought possible. Children bring laughter and fun in your life. They complete the relationship you have with your spouse by becoming a family. You learn how to negotiate and compromise.

My child has taught me many things. Sometimes they see things in a fresh way that you are too jaded to appreciate. My child has helped me in many ways. To become a better person, for example. It was my child that first got me to go out dressed! Now that he is older, some of the best times I have had enfemme have been with him.

To watch your child grow and see him/her become his own person is a fascinating process. More interesting than any book or movie. Trust me.

And then there is the magical everyday moments. When you get home and your child comes running to you and screams "Daddy!" When you get up and he has made breakfast for you trying to surprise you. When he epilates my back. When he tells me I am the best daddy in the world. When he tells me how beautiful I look and how proud he is of going out with me. When we cook together and he is trying to learn all the cooking basics. When he teaches me French. When play mental games with each other. When we go canoeing together and encounter difficulties. When he gets something he was having trouble understanding. I could go on and on....

Finally...when you really put all the above aside and you clear your head from all the BS we go through in life and all the things we once thought important....there comes a time when you realize that nothing else in life matters more than your loved ones...specially your spouse and kids.

[RachelOKC]

I think the negative manner of the questions asked by the OP has been well addressed (and atoned for!) so I won't really get into that, but I will try to answer what's at the heart of each.

Although we knew we wanted children at some point, we didn't specifically plan it. It just happened when it did and we were plenty fine with it. Our motivation? I suppose if you can call it such, it was to bring someone into this world we could love, nurture, care for, and teach. To share new life experiences with and celebrate the joys of milestones and accomplishments. Probably not so much the fears, the sadness, and the anger but we're all smart enough to know that's just life.

I'm sure another part of it was to pass on a bit of ourselves toward some uncertain but hopefully better future. Although times are tough right now, and I personally will likely never be as prosperous as my parents, I think most people are inherently optimistic enough to think that things will be better for their kids. Not always of course, but I'd say it's generally a good bet.

As for pressure, coercion, etc...Nobody made us do it. No doubt there's spousal or parental or societal pressures to have kids. But there's pressure to conform for practically everything in life. As if transpeople need a lecture in that.

Not having feelings for children due to being intersexed? I'd say those are probably exclusive of one another. My sister was born with a Disorder of Sex Development, and could rightly be called intersexed herself. I won't get into the details, but will simply say she can't have children. Even so, we never doubted that she of all of us kids would be most sure to have a family. As a very proud parent of an adopted beautiful eight year old girl, she has not disappointed us. She is a wonderful mother.

My child is not a burden for me to be who I am. I have never hidden my TG nature from my family and I would never hide it from my child because I really don't like living lies or untold truths. I consider myself lucky to be in a place and time where I am reasonably free to be myself and my son can interact with other non-traditional families like his. That's not to say it won't be hard since the road I am on is probably going to be a rocky one. There's plenty of little difficulties being an out trans-parent with a young kid. But at least I don't have to come out to a spouse and children after years and years of hiding. I'll take that up front advantage any day.

I'd guess the most burdensome part about having a child is the same that most families faces...getting a babysitter, dealing with tantrums, changing diapers...

[Momarie]

"I'm saddened to say there is a large ethereal gulf between what I feel and what I have to say in social interaction".

And this is suppose to excuse you for your deliberate poor choice of words and poor manners?

This ethereal uterus thinks not.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

So now we are test subjects.

Sorry but the op should be test subject

[Sophie86]

Everyone,

I again thank you for your insight. My first statement in hindsight seems somewhat rude.
If I have offended you I certainly apologize.

I'm very successful at mimicking social interaction with people not unlike teaching a parrot to mimic sounds.

I'm saddened to say there is a large ethereal gulf between what I feel and what I have to say in social interaction.

I'm a very good actor and no one knows that I am blank behind the words used to integrate myself with others.

I've treated all of you as subject matter instead of human beings and for that I have learned to apologize so please accept my apology.

I still have a difficult time differentiating between humans being statistical graphs and being living breathing creatures.

Thank you again


Julia

It's okay. Thanks for explaining.

[JulieK1980]

"I'm saddened to say there is a large ethereal gulf between what I feel and what I have to say in social interaction".

And this is suppose to excuse you for your deliberate poor choice of words and poor manners?

This ethereal uterus thinks not.

It doesn't excuse them, but I suspect there is underlying sociopathic tendencies here. This person needs medical help.

[marlacd]

When we were married, my wife and decided against it, mainly because we were afraid that we would fly off the handle and abuse ours. I wasn't when I was young, but my wife was. Since both of my parents were dead & buried before I got married, My uncle was on me to reproduce so that the family name could be carried on. To me, that was a pretty crummy reason to have kids. As little as 3 years ago, he was on me to have kids "before its too late!". Ah, excuse me, I'm 54, What makes you think its so easy to send a kid thru college on social security?
Since my family has always thought that carrying on the family name was of the utmost importance, that's probably why my gay cousin killed himself. He was more involved with family matters, than I was. And he couldn't tell the family to take a hike, like I could. On the otherhand, I've no one to possibly help me, that's family, when I'm old, and can't take care of myself. But, how many times have you heard of parents taking care of their grown kids, because they are too lazy to take care of themselves. I personally know of too many in that position. Or kids that are too willing to push their parents into a nursing home, and split up their possessions? And as a added problem, if I had kids, would they accept me as a CD?

Obviously, there's no pat answer to this one. Really, the only thing I object to about this one is calling having kids, as breeding. Breeding in the would of animal husbantry mean comming up with a better species.