No offense but Part-time is a piece of cake. You wanna test your pass-ability? Don't go to the mall, go to a Scope Review meeting on a large construction project. Meet a bunch of new people who you need to take you seriously less you get dismissed as unprofessional. When I talk about my quality of life, I mean my WHOLE life. What you people call passing is literally kids stuff when you compare it to what life is like for the transitioner.[/QUOTE]Originally Posted by kathtx
Melissa has it right on. Those of us who are not transitioning or full-time really don't know what it is like. Our worries about "passing" -- whatever that means -- are really minor compared to they go / have gone through.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Proud member of the Lacey Leigh Fan Club
I'm with Chickie on this. I've come to realize over the past few days that some people are way too sensitive when it comes to the topic if passing; getting all caught up in the semantics. I've also noticed that this forum is no different than other online forums in that there are opinions on certain topics which vary greatly and it's mind boggling at times how adamantly opposed some people can be.
For Melissa, passing is her whole life. For the average CDer, passing might be a fun day out that happens once in awhile. Passing for Melissa is not the same as passing for most of us, but it still means a lot to those of us who want to pass at the level we desire - again the semantics come into play here as to what passing is. In my opinion, my degree of passing that fulfills my desires should not be chuckled upon or looked at as "kids stuff". In the same respect, no one should dismiss Melissa's desire to pass at the level she wants/needs to pass in her chosen lifestyle. Anyone could very easily dismiss Melissa's desired degree of passing, or for that matter her chosen lifestyle, as "inappropriate" or "wrong". Is that a good thing? Of course not. It's called respect -- something we all clamor about and want from society for ourselves, yet we can't seem to give it to one another when it comes to this topic.
The bottom line is we all choose to present as a female in some way whether that's full time, part time, or a few days out of the year. But our desired degrees of passing (for those who have the desire) vary greatly. Instead of nit-picking about what passing is or isn't, why can't we simply lift one another up and discuss our experiences and what we feel helps us all pass? We seem to blow "sunshine" (to quote another forum member) up one another's skirts on some topics, yet the daggers come out on this one. I don't get it.
Last edited by alesha_cd; 06-28-2013 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Alesha
Its interesting that the younger people are embracing the term as they are, I would think there would be less emphasis on passing with them as there so much more acceptance today.
Personally I have come to really dislike the term. I'm not trying to pass myself off as something I am not. I am the woman I am.
And I am really irritated when someone tells me I pass, or that I look like a real woman.
I know that I am visibly trans, people will figure it out. But I have to make my life work around that - buying groceries, at work, with clients, at my daughters school, when I do volunteer stuff, church, everywhere in my life.
I don't have the looks or the money to get the looks, so I have to work with what I do have. It is very important that I have confidence in myself and in my identity, that is the biggest asset I have in order to be taken seriously.
Personally, ive never really had the full makeover to even see if i COULD pass or not. So i basically just fall into the category of going out and enjoying myself regardless of passability. Throughout my life, i have always been on the edge with gothic club and other alternative styles that the general public frowns upon. Basically, if someone sees me, i want them to see me, not a crossdresser or someone trying to be something im not. If they have thoughts like...that dudes a crossdresser or something like that, it wouldnt bother me because id rather them think that than....look at that total drag queen. Now, not to bash on DQs. Over the top makeup and flamboyant outfits would be super fun, but you have to be in the right venue for that. I wouldnt want to go like that to olive garden or something like that. Then again, knowing that im not going to pass, i dress appropriately for the venue that im in. If i went to olive garden, i probably wouldnt be dressed in womens clothes unless i was going there with a TG group or something like that. Strength in numbers. I enjoy what i do and dont really care what strangers ill never see again think of me. The only persons opinions i value are those closest to me like my wife and parents. (Parents dont know, wife does.) Between the wifes lack of acceptance and my parents lack of knowledge, that is the only reason i dont dress all the time or in public. My parents are neighbors so even just going outside in my yard dressed would be dangerous since im not out to them.
And that is what is most important.Observant people can get the sense that a woman isn't a GG but they have no reason to take issue with it if the entire presentation makes sense.I do think it is extra hard for transitioners that are physically out of the norm of GG's to not get read.It won't be an issue if everything else matches up to the expected. My opinion,anyway.
It SURE is my hair ! I have the receipt and the box it came in !
You're right. It is extremely difficult to overcome being read like a neon sign. It takes a level of commitment and effort that is beyond the limits of most people's endurance. People who are transitioning have a good reason to be motivated towards that end, because NOT passing or NEVER passing just makes a tough situation tougher. There are those that will never pass, and there are those that pass on day two. Somewhere in the middle is where most of us fight our battles.
Let me say again that passing in my opinion, means sitting in a meeting with new clients for a couple of hours of planning and negotiation and having no one look twice at you. That's the Gold standard, and the only thing that I will settle for in my quest for perfection. Some want to be beautiful, I just want to be real. ...or at least look it.
Doubters only fuel me.
Just curious Melissa,is being seen as a woman and going about your life as a woman the more realistic goal?As I see it,that is different than standing up to close scrutiny and being accepted with no doubt as a genetic woman.The transitioned women that aren't petite and had a lot of feminizing cosmetic surgery,often look like someone that has had too much surgery[Joan Rivers]for example.This is real in the flesh,standing beside her,type observations. There is only so much you can go before it defeats itself by being too much. And in certain situations[your business world] too much might be more obvious than not so much work as it really depends on who is judging you during your business dialog.
It SURE is my hair ! I have the receipt and the box it came in !
True. There are some girls who will always have problems because they just took a bad roll of the genetic dice. What you are describing above though is BAD cosmetic surgery. I'm going back to Dr Cardenas in just a couple of weeks for some follow up work and I'm not concerned one tiny bit about the Joan Rivers look because he is artfully subtle. Some would say (and I was one of them) TOO subtle, but there is very little danger of looking like a bad example.
I am motivated for what we in the Tech industry call "5 nines", and I understand that not everyone shares that motivation. It's cool. We all have our own way of turning the throttle.
I am all for it and it can't be as hard as the last one...after all,it's only "tweaking" your look! Wonder how much more shi# at work you'll take from doing that...hope they grow out of it!
It SURE is my hair ! I have the receipt and the box it came in !
The attainable goal in passing is when you have stopped worrying about it and have other socialy interactive things on your mind like enjoying the company of your friends and what your future has in store for you tomorrow.
Work on your elegance,
and beauty will follow.
No offense taken at the statement that part-time is cake compared to full-time. Of course part-time is infinitely easier. Some offense taken at the suggestion part-time is all about trips to the mall and at the "you people" phrase. Had you said "what you call passing..." you'd have at least been directing the comment at *me*, which I can handle, instead of extending to all part timers with a phrase that's often used in a dismissive way. But hey, I'm around here enough to expect any reply from badtranny to contain at least 30% snark by volume, so I'm cool.
But some *transitioners* get "read" regularly, get occasional double-takes and stares, yet still have a high quality of life and go to professional meetings, give presentations, and so on. I was asking why you felt you needed 100% no-read when others, whether part-time or full-time, don't.
That answers my question. Thank you.I am motivated for what we in the Tech industry call "5 nines", and I understand that not everyone shares that motivation. It's cool. We all have our own way of turning the throttle.
lol
this has just been stolen for my sig
I am new to the forum. I am a GG married to a TS who has been a member since 2005.
The other day my spouse and I were discussing "passing", and it is clear we have different points of view. One of the things I thought was that she has fallen prey to Madison Avenue advertising hype - you are not womanly unless you are model beautiful. My GG girlfriends and I fight this all the time (none of us are model beautiful - not even close). When I look at the pictures of all who have posted on this thread, I think each of you would pass. Some of you remind me of my friends.
I agree that age, gravity, hormone changes, etc. are great equalizer and make the difference between male features and female features less pronounced. I also agree with the post that a picture does not show mannerism, walk, etc., but those are all things that can be learned.
But I think the most important thing to remember is that GGs have had to learn to be comfortable in our own skin, and I don't think it would be any different for you. I think it is important to know that the standard for passing and being loved are not those of Madison Avenue. Be yourself and enjoy who you are. Your spirit will shine through and you will pass with the people that matter.
P.S. I hope I didn't offend anyone. I'm still a novice and am not sure what subjects should be tread lightly upon.
P.P.S. Should I be afraid of Badtranny - I'm not sure I could pass at a 2 hour meeting with new clients planning and negotiating without someone looking twice :-)
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