Well good luck!
Although I'd be very worried about the backlash especially as the strings guy immature and hyper-active. I suppose there is two points here; defending the strings guy directly and just generally making the point that the bullying isn't cool.
For bullies it is....just generally making the point that the bullying isn't cool
So... I don't think you will change their opinions about this subject (basically, you'll keep crashing with a wall). All you can do, I guess, is tone the situation down a bit, like you are already planning.
I think our government is doing a good job on that. Brazil have allowed same-sex marriage since last year. There are discussions to criminalize homophobia, just like racism. There are members of the parliament actively fighting for LGBT rights. But even though the brazilian government is leading the way on this subject, the brazilian people still need to catch up.Originally Posted by devida
The thing is, Brazil is a very large country, with lots of different regions, each with their own culture and level of education, so some regions advance faster than others. Also, we are still a very religious country, and unfortunately this generates less acceptance. There are hate crimes happening everywhere and even though gay people are starting to blend in, the concept of transgenderism is still alien for most people. There's still a long way to go.
Julia I still applaud you in your endeavors.
If HR interaction is needed, so be it.
Work on your elegance,
and beauty will follow.
In America, some of us are raised to "mind our own business". Especially if it is related to work and money.
If you want to be an "activist", than go ahead and be one.
If you want to mind your own business, and separate work and play, than do that.
But it might be best to decide between the two. If you need to make other people's underwear your business, than be prepared for all of the energy and time it will require of you.
Last edited by Taylor Ray; 03-31-2014 at 10:21 PM.
Devida: Don't confuse the pretty television pictures with actual reality. Homophobia and transphobia in particular are MAJOR issues in south amercia generally, including Brazil, as I'm sure Julia can attest to. Transphobic sex crimes and violence are still at rates that make someone from the US, UK or Australia shudder.
Taylor: I don't think Julia is whining. She made a mistake, she should have said something immediately and she acknowledges that, she is just trying to work out the best way to sort it, for everyone concerned.
Julia, just be yourself, and do what you think is RIGHT. I am always surprised quite frankly at how this usually results in a good outcome for everyone involved, at least in the long run.
Last edited by Kate T; 03-31-2014 at 05:03 AM.
OK, here's my (big) update, as promised. I have good news, but first I want to name the people involved (not their real names):
- Steve: the guy who was wearing strings
- Bob: my best friend at the office, sits right next to Steve. Steve looks up to him.
- Vinny: the bully
- Sam: the guy who saw Steve's strings first and showed it to Vinny
First, I talked to Bob. He called in sick on last friday and was not there to witness the situation. It went on like this:
Me: So, have you heard anything about Friday?
Bob: You're talking about Steve? Yeah, of course. For some reason Vinny thinks he needs to tell me every single detail he finds out about him.
Me: Don't you think it's getting annoying? The way he's picking on Steve?
Bob: Surely. But then again, what were the guy thinking? Why would he wear something like that to work? It's like he's asking to be hated even more.
Me: Who cares why? He probably likes it. I don't think anyone should be bothered by that.
Bob: Well, as long as he learns to hide his butt, I won't mind either.
He then complained A LOT about Steve's behaviour. As we continued the conversation, I insisted with Bob that no one should make fun of Steve because of what he was wearing, and that I was feeling very bad about this situation. I told him that Vinny's behaviour was bothering me even more than Steve's now. I also said that Steve should know about it. He agreed with me in the end and said he could talk to Steve if he was there when it happened, but doing it now, 3 days later, would be weird. He said that maybe we could talk to Sam, as he was the one who saw it first.
Bob: He is very friendly to Steve, I think if someone has to speak with him about it, it should be Sam. After all, he was the one who started this in the first place.
Sometime later, I was lunching with Bob, and Vinny showed up. I was expecting him to say something about Steve so I could scold him lightly (now with my friend to back me up), but he didn't. He just showed us a scar he got while mountainbiking this weekend, talked about how he had fun, then we talked about things posted on facebook, and then he left. No mentioning of Steve.
I saw it as a good sign. Maybe he has chosen to ignore what happened? After all, he had his fun the other day, and now he was acting like it never happened. I took this as a sign of acceptance, so I continued with my plan of not talking about it unless he do it first. If he forgets about this and never mentions it again, that's the best thing that could happen.
Later the afternoon, I was playing PS3 with Bob (we have flexible working hours and a PS3 at our office) and Sam showed up. Bob began the conversation:
Bob: Sam, it was you who saw Steve's strings last friday, right?
Sam: What, Vinny told you? Damn, I should NOT have showed it to him. Now he is making fun of the boy for nothing.
Me: Vinny is beginning to cross the line now.
Bob: I think it's best that Steve should stop wearing things like this to work.
Sam: But he haven't done anything wrong! It's Vinny who's a fool and is making a big deal out of it.
Me: I agree, Steve does not have to change anything because of Vinny.
Bob: I'm just saying... to me it's inappropriate for work.
Sam: But it's UNDERWEAR! He can wear ANYTHING under his clothes, no one has the right to control that.
I was impressed with Sam. Never thought I would hear something like this at my workplace. I backed him up and said some words of approval. In the end, Bob was also convinced that Steve didn't do anything wrong. Sam also told us that he said a few words to Vinny about it, and made him back down. That explained what happened at lunch time, when Vinny remained quiet about it.
Then we asked him to speak with Steve about it.
Sam: No way I'm talking to him about it!
Me: But don't you think that he has the right to know that? That people saw it and are making fun of him?
Sam. No! He did nothing wrong! We should not make a big deal about it, because it's NOT important! It's HIS underwear, people should be confortable the way they want, and no one has anything to do about it!
Inside, I was cheering. I couldn't say it better, I was proud of Sam. Maybe I don't have this kind of courage to speak like that because of paranoia. I worry too much about being outed, so I hold my tongue on these subjects. I was ashamed of myself, because I should have spoken like that when Vinny told me about it, but instead, I remained silence. And Sam was feeling bad because he should not have told anyone what he saw, but he fixed that.
For the rest of the day, I never saw anyone talking about it. I think Vinny did not spread the "news" like I thought he would. Luckly, he told only a few chosen people, but I think even he understood that this is not a question to talk openly because it can backlash on him, and it did.
I'm feeling relieved now, apparently things are going to be OK, but I'm also feeling bad about myself, because I was a coward and Sam did everything I could not... Maybe it's a good lesson for me, as I have to speak my mind more often and care less about what other people think.
I would say, it not good for your job to be discriminating in the work place. If the guy filed a complaint you you might be the one leaving. That is what I would tell the bully.
I took up for one of our whse workers once that was showing pics from a Halloween party and inadvertently showed a pic where he was dressed in drag.
The guys really started bashing him and laughing as well as calling him a fag/sissy boy.
He got pretty upset and explained it was his GF's idea.
I stood up and said hey knock it off OK leave the guy alone and stop being aholes.
I went over and talked with him and said screw those guys they are classic jerks.
He thanked me for standing up for him.
I said what you do is your business and I'm here if you ever get hassled again.
Of course I got called queer for standing up for him and my reply was well so what if I am?
Out of the 20 guys in here at least two are probably gay so which one of you is it?
That pretty much ended the laughter and I never got asked if I was gay after that.
Don't beat yourself up Julia. Maybe you didn't say something at first. /shrug you tried to make it right and in the end had an opportunity to see what kind of people you work with. Steve's choose of undergarments are no longer a topic of conversation. All seems well in the world to me.
Hug
Rita
A person should wear what he likes to. And not just what other folks say. A person should be who she likes to. A person's a person that way!
~Marlo Thomas~
Classic response. Makes me very smiley. I would probably do it very similar to that too.
And to the original post that was all very well worked out... couldn't have happened better to be honest.
Should Julia pull her pants down around her ankles while saying it? FFS, they work in IT, not in some liquor store in the hood.
It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.
People can be SO petty and ignorant! One guy at a company I worked for was convinced I was gay - I'm boringly straight - because... my GYM SHORTS fall just ABOVE my knees!
Also, I've lost count of the number of times I've been "chatted-up" in the sauna because, like most Europeans, I sauna naked; sitting upright, eyes closed, chilling, hands between my legs, not "flaunting" anything! *sigh*
If you feel comfortable, I'd let the young man know that people are sniggering at his choice of underwear behind his back, let him decide what to do about it.
Yes as that should apply to all as just dress modesty for the work place..........................Debra
No, that's not how some bullies work. They keep a tight knit crowd in their loop, with the same low level of mentality, to make fun of others.
Julia, I can't say for sure if saying something to him in the guys defense will out you or not. This guy doing all the talking will probably condem you for sticking up for the other. May even spread stories and lies to keep the BS going. I sure wouldn't come out at work, that's for sure. if you under dress, you may want to reconsider doing so in the future.
Myself, if someone came up to me in the same manner, My first response would have been "why are you looking at that guy's butt? your the only one to notice until this point. Probably because none of the other guys are looking at another guys butt".
Flip Flops were made for Beaches & Bath Houses, We have neither in 2017. Lose the flip flops!
I am in the Trucking industry and I UNDERDRESS fem
Underwear and even wear a sports bra with A cups
to work every day . I actually hope I'm making a few
People wonder.
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