How do you see yourself? All input/replies welcomed

[Ava Tryptyk]

1) When I look in the mirror (or if I catch a glimpse of myself in the reflection of a store or car window), my perception of myself fluctuates depending on what I am wearing and how well I pass. If I am fully dressed (meaning having my wig and makeup on), I generally see a pretty girl. The exception to this is if I catch myself at an unflattering angle, like one that draws more attention than usual to my masculine-looking upper arms (especially if I am wearing a sleeveless top). In those cases I do see myself as a guy wearing women's clothing. Most of the time, though, I am satisfied with what I see.

2) I don't really care too much to be honest. I have been called "ma'am", and when having dinner at a restaurant with a GG, we were asked, "What would you ladies like to drink tonight?". I don't get offended when people refer to me as sir, though (I was addressed that way after showing a waitress my ID (male) to buy a beer). I understand that since I haven't worked on my voice, I will still sound like a man, and because of that, my main goal when going out is to be the best person I can be, to help give crossdressing exposure in this world in a positive light. Isha, I don't want to speak for you, but I think that we have similar goals in wanting to be "ambassadors" of the crossdressing world. By socializing with people I can increase the amount of people in this world who have had positive experiences taking to crossdressers, and I am hopeful that these people may defend crossdressers if they fall into a conversation where they are spoken poorly of (they could interject, "Actually, the other day, I spoke to a crossdresser in the grocery store, she was very pleasant to talk to.")

[Katey888]

Isha -In some ways I could wish you didn't ask these questions as they seem to throw up so many more than they answer! Not to mention turning an afternoon lapsing into the fantasy of a CD-controlled, alien-backed world government into something more mundane and, well, hard to think about... but anyway... for you... :D

I, like Donna, was also a bit confused by the apparent contradiction in your OP... surely you would still 'hope' that folk would see you as a woman, even if you felt the probability was low (which I couldn't comment on, as no direct experience) because if in that fleeting glance - whether received when shopping, in a dimly-lit restaurant or sunlit Starbucks terrace.. - you 'pass' (as in: no immediate alarm bells ring and you have effectively blended in just passing hurdle #1 - the 100msec fleeting glance at 20m), you have achieved what you set out to do? That being, the ability to go about your normal business, as normal. Because, as normal, no one would engage me in conversation about my hair, makeup or gender orientation... (not saying that you actively seek 'stranger engagement', but you seem much more willing than I probably would be.. ) - no more than they would a GG doing their thing... So I do believe the OP and your response to Donna needs a bit more - analysis? (Dare I say it...?)

But back to your OP questions - as they are brain-achey ones... :facepalm:

Who do I see in the mirror...? Man or woman....? <aaaargh!!!!> I have to say: I think I see a woman...
That clearly needs expansion... I don't kid myself that I am a woman... what I think I properly see, in my mind's eye, is the woman version of me... same personality, likes, dislikes, sense of humour, weaknesses, etc, etc. But how I would want to look, if K**** was Katey... And presenting as woman allows me to relax my posture, relax my 'guy doing stuff', thing... to express more femininely, and that makes me beyond happy... because it embraces a large element of escapism in the transformation process... and that's just with me as an audience...

Would that change if I were out in public? I dunno... I know that if I were I would want to pass hurdle #1, if for no other reason than it avoided any further scrutiny. Beyond that, I think I'd agree with your premise that under more specific observation, few of us would pass hurdle #2 (I'm going to define that as specific evaluation <5 sec at <10m ) - but again as you've said, if you're a good person (which I read as polite and respectful to others) and you are dressed appropriately, most people will accept that... perhaps will think it quirky or weird, but not reaching for their pitchforks yet... I'm sure I wouldn't want muggles to really believe I was a woman, however flattering that might seem...

So... is that just another reset for everyone to reinforce the 'who do we think we're kidding' perspective...? If so, I think you're probably right, because for fleeting moments that image in the mirror can be decidedly girly... but then there are others when I still just see me, and that's often a bit eeeewww...

Hope that helps towards the doctorate...

Katey x

[Farrah]

Great question(s). I think when I look at myself in the mirror, I see a prettier version of me. I try to see how much I can look like a woman. All the while, I know its me. However, the image is something that really excites me. The answer to your second question: I've only gone out once. I was so nervous, I don't know what I wanted. However, looking back on it, I think I just wanted to blend. I just wanted to be out dressed, because I had sashayed around my four wall far too long. I think I blended. No one laughed or pointed, at least not to my face. Now that I'm preparing to try again, I think I'm trying to, once again, blend. If I'm accepted, that'd be nice, but not necessary.

[Confucius]

In minute 19:00 of this Grayson Perry interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G-2rgFLYzo

Grayson takes issue with female alter-egos, regrets he used to use a Claire alter-ego, and just considers himself "a man in a dress". I find myself much like Grayson. When I cross-dress I don't change my personality, I don't change my voice, I don't assume a female name, I just see myself as a man in a dress. When I cross-dress I get all the good sensations. My brain seems to interpret cross-dressing as actual contact with a female, but this contact is not internalized. I do not feel as if there is a female person inside of me. I am just the same person I always am. I am happy to be a man and I think there is so much good about being a man. My cross-dressing is just the way my brain is hard-wired.

I do not cross-dress in public, but if I did, I suppose I wouldn't try to fool anyone into thinking I was a real female. I would just be a man in a dress.

[Roxie]

Had to sit and think about this for awhile, I consider myself a little of both male and female. In my job and running a bisness it's all male has to be that way and that fine . However deep down I have a lot of female desires , always wanted breast, shave my legs etc. Roxie is a new chick at this but I have come to accept the female side and it brings me great peace. As I have never stepped outside I really don't what to expect.however Roxie will be out and about at some point and I want to be seen as a female.As I look in the mirror at Roxie I look at who I am and like what I see
Thanks alot for the great thread Isha as I have not been a member for long,but have learned so much about myself that I feel blessed.

ROCK ON! Roxie

[Marcelle]

. . . I, like Donna, was also a bit confused by the apparent contradiction in your OP... surely you would still 'hope' that folk would see you as a woman, even if you felt the probability was low (which I couldn't comment on, as no direct experience) because if in that fleeting glance - whether received when shopping, in a dimly-lit restaurant or sunlit Starbucks terrace.. - you 'pass' (as in: no immediate alarm bells ring and you have effectively blended in just passing hurdle #1 . . . Beyond that, I think I'd agree with your premise that under more specific observation, few of us would pass hurdle #2 . . .

Hey Katey V Kensington III (you know you are never going to lose that moniker now ). Not really a contradiction so much as healthy dose of reality for me. I don't expect to pass on close examination at all. In a way blending is what you are describing and perhaps I could have been a bit more precise. When I enter a venue "en femme" I naturally assume I will not pass "first muster" and will be read (way too many tells not to be read). However, I hope that if my presentation is good, my mannerisms, walk and clothing are all adequate, people will continue with their busy lives and pay little attention to kind of mannish girl who entered the fray. . This allows me a place of calm to continue from . . . I made in unscathed so now I can deal with the looks, stares, finger pointing, nudging, winking, guffaws and whatever else. So yes, in a way I hope they will see me as a girl (hurdle 1) but I am also a realist in that it will be fleeting but once I am in . . . too late they are stuck with Isha.

When I talk about not caring if people perceive me as a woman . . . I truly mean that. It is not going to happen in my case. For example, I take public transit "en femme". When I first enter the bus and people are busy with their conversations, smart phones, I-pads, papers or just lost in thought, I assume out of the corner of their eye they see a girl (long hair, girl clothes, painted nails). That is all I can hope for as it allows me to meld into the group. However, the minute someone looks up from their I-pad, smartphone are returns from deep thought . . . they will see a guy in girl's clothing . . . there is no going back at that point. So I cannot force people to see me as a woman from that point forward or hope they will. I can however expect them to be polite and if they want to "sir" me politely that is fine. If they want to call me ma'am/miss/her/lady that is fine to. I really just want the latitude to go about my business in the same manner I can when I am "en boy".

Now I really have to get back to plotting the overthrow of an alien backed shadow government

Hugs

Isha

[Beverley Sims]

When I was younger the man was not there, as I age I go steadily down hill, thicken out and lose that tight skin.

I see more of a guy poking out and I do not lose any sense of reality about the situation.
I have learned to live with it.
I still try hard to present myself in a decent manner.

I have not lost the desire to practice the art of looking like a woman.

[heatherdress]

1. When I look in a mirror, I see - me. If dressed as a woman, I see a sexy, beautiful version of - me. If I do not have eyeliner and lipstick and heels, I see - me. Plain, maybe handsome, but - me. I cannot think of myself as being a male before I shave and a female after I shave and put on my makeup. I am always - me. I also like - me. I am happy as - me. Maybe happier when I am dressed as a female, but I am still - me.

And I know I am a man.

2. When I am out, I really do not care the least bit that anyone else thinks that I am a woman or accepts me as a female. I want to be accepted and treated with dignity as a person, no matter how I am dressed.

[flatlander_48]

Right now, I am dressed completely en femme from the neck down. From the neck up, I am as I would normally be as a guy. As I was getting dressed, looking in the mirror I'm primarily looking at the clothes. There is nothing different about how I would look in the face otherwise so it doesn't command a lot of attention. I'm not a large person, so I don't have an overwhelmingly masculine presence. It's masculine, but not in the Hulk Hogan/Duane "The Rock" Johnson sort of way.

Going out dressed, I would prefer to be perceived consistent with how I present. That would mean being seen as a woman. It would seem odd otherwise.

[PaulaQ]

1. When you go out (or stay in) and look in the mirror do you see a woman or a man? Specifically do you feel as though your masculine (if you want to put name to it) side is subsumed by your feminine side?

2. When you are out do you wish to be perceived as a woman? I am not talking about blending (hiding in plain site) but more so you truly want people to accept you as a woman.

1. When I look in the mirror now, I see a woman. Before I began transition, I always saw a man unless I was fully dressed and made up. I hated the guy that looked back at me in the mirror. I loved seeing a woman look back at me - it was the reflection of what I'm supposed to be. I'm a lot happier now that I like who looks back at me in the mirror.

2. Yes, I want people to accept me as a woman - since I know to my core that I am one. After last week though, I'd settle to just be generally viewed as a human being by society at large.

[Sophie Yang]

1. Most of the time when looking at Sophie in the mirror, I see a blendable/passable women staring back. But on occasion, something just doesn't look or maybe feel right. Maybe most of the time it is just self deception. The glass is 95% full? For others, they may be their own harshest critic and their glass in 95% full the other way. Without looking in the mirror, for me, the male and female, the yin and yang coexist peacefully together.

2. I want people to accept me as me. When Sophie is out and about, she is usually alone, happy, and content. She also loves engaging people in chit chat, some idle, some more substantial. Being perceived, accepted, and treated as a women is a great feeling. It really substantiates that my presentation is working. I have never been part of the thespian scene, but I expect my feelings when perceived, accepted, and treated as a women are similar to what an actress feels when she has nailed the role before a live audience.

For the last seven years I have been on the road working. As of May, I started working from home and will be for the next two years. About four years ago Sophie was born after a very long incubation period, 52 years. Another gal with her own blog site coined the term for her activities as crossacting instead of crossdressing.

This last year I was in Minnesota, in a small conservative town, and spent many evenings and weekends crossacting. Was read at least once that I know of, obviously could have been read and not known about it. Was asked twice from two different guys who were hitting on me for hours two different times. Never gave the first guy a straight answer, had a ball doing the verbal sparring. Eventually told the second. Now I did find this exhilarating and fun, but not dangerous.

However, I find the everyday ordinary mundane chore interactions, grocery shopping, comedy club, flying, just as memorable if not more so. These were always on a first name basis. These were all pleasant human connections. Sophie just happened to be acting the part at the time.

[Princess Chantal]

Heatherdress reply for the first question suits me extremely well.
As for the second question, I would love to be perceived as male who is enjoying his crossdressing to the fullest. I welcome people observing me, perhaps my appearance and actions would affect the general stereotypes.

[Christen]

Hiya Isha,

42 years ago I went out dressed and know I was 'seen' as a girl, haven't been out since, so I reply from Camp Closette.

1. When you go out (or stay in) and look in the mirror do you see a woman or a man? Specifically do you feel as though your masculine (if you want to put name to it) side is subsumed by your feminine side?

When I'm dressed fully, makeup, hair, etc. I see the female me. She's not a different person just the female version of myself. So I guess, yes, my masculine side is definitely subsumed by my feminine. I don't believe for one second that anyone else looking in to the same mirror would see anything other than a guy dressed up.

2. When you are out do you wish to be perceived as a woman? I am not talking about blending (hiding in plain site) but more so you truly want people to accept you as a woman.

Hmm, I guess that would be my dream. Yes, I'd want to be seen as, accepted as a woman, I mean after all that darn effort! Seriously though, I'm pretty sure that's the thing that keeps Christen at home, I can't see myself being able to project a totally convincing woman.

Christen x

[sometimes_miss]

Well if you perceive yourself as a guy, why go through all the time and effort of presenting female?

It supplies the required tactile and visual feedback to me that I'm the girl I'm supposed to be. It's not to convince other people.

I'm curious; exactly how are you 'blending' if you're not passing? There was a thread a while back about how the public REALLY feels about us without actually saying anything to us about it. While you may perceive that 'you're a good person' do you really believe that everyone that sees you believes the same? Or that they all believe that you have the right to try to present yourself as a female? I'm not saying that you don't; but there are a lot of people out there that feel we're an abomination and an afront to their religious beliefs, and they'd just as soon see us dead, because they really believe that we present a dangerous role model for their children. Even worse, there's a significant number of the population that really believes that our behavior invites the wrath of god to smite us; remember the religious right's suggestion that 9/11 was god's response to the homosexuals here? THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO REALLY, REALLY DON'T LIKE US.

1. When you go out (or stay in) and look in the mirror do you see a woman or a man? Specifically do you feel as though your masculine (if you want to put name to it) side is subsumed by your feminine side?

I don't look in mirrors. It confuses the mind. And I don't believe in 'sides' to personalities, true multiple personality disorder is a very, very rare thing. I maintain that everyone who believes that they are maintaining a separate 'female side' of themselves is doing so due to either conscious or subconscious guilt/shame about embracing female feelings and behaviors; you see it over and over when people here refer to their female self in the third person, desperately trying to distance their real selves from all the female things that they really want. I hate to burst your bubble, but it's all you; the masculine, the feminine, all of it. Don't think so? That's not how the rest of the world sees you; dress as a girl, act like a girl, and they see a guy who really wants to be a girl. They don't think it's 'just another side of you' that's NOT REALLY YOU any more than they'd believe a seriel killer who tells them that the murderer isn't really who he 'really is'.

2. When you are out do you wish to be perceived as a woman?

If given a choice, I would have taken either 1. being a normal guy, not a crossdresser, or 2. being a normal girl, even if that meant being a gay one. Getting mixed up in the middle is a real problem, because the vast majority of the world is geared to be attracted to either masculine males, or feminine females. All I really want is to feel my own self image to be congruent with what would allow me to lead a normal life, with normal expectations of finding a mate. The closest consolation I've ever had, was when a gay girl told me that at least I had potential access to all the beautiful straight girls out there, that she did not.

[ReineD]

(A side note - we GG's are not entirely without fantasy on how we look...we just deal with it differently.

Right. I find I look better with each year that passes! My vision has gotten weaker as I got older, and if I don't wear my reading glasses when I look at myself in the mirror, I think I look gorgeous! No wrinkles or anything! lol

But getting back to Isha's question ... I have no clue how my SO sees him(her)self. In the very beginning he told me that his goal was to pass (this was years back when he was just beginning to go out in public), and this meant looking as much like a woman as possible. I remember quite a few times, my SO asking me if I thought that the SA/waitress/etc had any idea that she wasn't a female. But then quite a few other times, he'd tell me that he knew people knew he was a male when they interacted with her. So I think that my SO's feelings fluctuate. If she doesn't perceive any raised eyebrows, she is hopeful that people do take it he is a woman. But when she feels that she is read, it doesn't upset her all that much. Not any more, not unless someone is rude about it.

So to recap, I think that hope and a sense of reality are close companions and it is easy for many CDers to constantly fluctuate between the two, and to believe one more than the other depending on the prevailing mood. I say this, because I know how it feels on a personal level to want to believe something so much that I convince myself that it is true, even though I have an inkling that it isn't. So my mind cycles through contradictory thoughts in quick succession, like: "Yes, this is so. But maybe it isn't. But surely it is, I can feel it. Well, maybe not. But it feels as if it is, so I'll just stay here for awhile." and so on and so forth. I went through this while I was fighting for custody of my youngest child, believing that I would win even though everything was pointing to the opposite. But I digress.

If I should ask my SO how she sees herself when she is dressed, I don't think that he'd be able to tell me.

I also think that my SO has come full circle with his/her gender identity. But, this doesn't mean that we won't go through another round.

[Donnagirl]

Isha,

As, her ladyship intimated, I'm still confused... Can I please postulate a hypothetical??? Please answer only if you wish...

"If you engage in one of your forays into town and no one 'clocks' you, no one comments, no one sniggers or points, do you consider that trip a failure?"

It just seem 'arse about' to use the Aussie vernacular...

Hugs as always,

Donna

[Teresa]

Hi Isha your experiment with bare arms has raised some questions I might post on in the future.

As far as question 1 is concerned the last time I went for a drive I saw the woman, the male side had definitely been subsumed from head to toe!

Maybe you can put me right on Q2, not being out as you have, I would be happy to look more or less like my avatar ( possibly less full wig )so I would like to be passable. After that I don't know how seriously I would take it, I think I would pay little attention to my voice or walk and just want to be me, talking to people, cracking a joke and having a laugh ! So my question is why do I need to dress just to become me ? I can only answer it by saying I'm showing the whole of me I like and what I'm comfortable with.

[Marcelle]

Hi Donna . . . "arse about" . . . okay you are going to have to send me a PM and define that term. I heard it once when operating with one of your military teams and forgot to ask.

Do I consider it a failure . . . heavens no. But then again I don't consider a trip out where I am read a failure so long as the interaction is polite and non-eventful. I guess the confusion (going to assume here) lies in how I worded my description of how I feel when out and about. So I'll have another go:

While I try my best to appear as a woman when dressed "en femme" it is so I can blend not pass (it is not going to happen in a million years or for a million dollars ). I am not going to jump up and down and say "Hey everyone I am a guy". I will let others draw their own conclusion. If some people think "that's a girl" (most likely legally blind) that is fine by me. If others think "that's a boy" so long as it is not accompanied by rude comments or violence then I am fine. For me it is not about being a woman, being perceived as a woman but doing what feels right and dressing "en femme" feels right to me but I don't expect the world to see or take me for a woman as I am not. I am just me dressed in whatever gender I wish to present that day.

So to give it an analogy. I love playing soccer (football), love the speed, love the camaraderie of the team so some time back I joined a Regimental Team. Problem is, I had no skill whatsoever (never played in my life) but thought it would be fun to try. So standing on the sidelines with my soccer uniform on, kicking a ball back and forth to other teammates to warm up, people in the stands probably looked down and said "There is a soccer player". Now I knew I eventually had to go out on the field and perform and while I looked the part (athletic, great uniform) I knew I was not a soccer player. So I run out on the field and take my position (now blending) and all see a soccer player, however the minute I have to perform any coordinated hands and feet moves people automatically know . . . not a soccer player . At that juncture I did not think or wish others would ever see me as a great soccer player even though I might look the part. Does that mean I stopped going out on the field? Nope, because I was what I was a guy who likes soccer but doesn't play it all that well . . . I had good days and bad days but I still thoroughly enjoyed myself even when some fans got a bit rude.

Hope this helps clarify things.

. . . So my question is why do I need to dress just to become me ? I can only answer it by saying I'm showing the whole of me I like and what I'm comfortable with.

Hi Teresa and that is the catch 22 of what we do. While I can state I just prefer to be "me" out and about it is logical to assume . . . Why not just be you in guy mode? If I could answer why I am compelled to dress like a girl from time to time and why it feels good . . . well let's just say I would get out the military and write a book

In my circumstance, I cannot control the compulsion to dress "en femme" anymore than I can control the requirement of my body to breath oxygen. If I tried to quell the desire (stop) I would become miserable and end a very dark place where I was a year ago ... not going there ever again. However what I can do is accept it, integrate it into my life and when out dressed "en femme" continue to be just me . . . only dressed prettier. However, I don't believe people will ever see me as anything but a cross dresser so it is easier to accept that truth than ignore it. It is kind of like going into combat . . . I get nervous and then accept the fact that bad things happen in a firefight and once I accept things could go bad I make peace with that and the nervousness subsides.

Hugs

Isha

[kimdl93]

When I look in the mirror I see a woman and when I go out, despite all the evidence to the contrary I wish to be treated and perceived as a woman.

[Butterfly Bill]

To answer the question that started this dress simply, I see what everyone else sees: a male wearing a dress. But to answer it in more depth, here is something I posted to Facebook a while back:
_____
Facebook is now letting you choose a "custom" option for your gender in your profile, as well as male and female.


A Slate page lists all of the choices you can make by selecting form a drop down menu.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_te...m_options.html


Now where do I fit in this list?


I am not cis or cisgender anything. (This is language used on LGBT and crossdressing forums. It's the opposite of transgender, identifying and presenting to society as the sex you were born with.)


I am not transsexual, because I have not had the operation, nor do I want to. (I like being able to pee standing up.)


I am not really transgendered either, because I don't try to do what they call "passing", which is shaving, putting on makeup and a wig, wearing breast forms, and trying to make people I encounter in public think that I really am a GG (genetic girl), a real woman, and react to me as such -- calling me "ma'am" and all the rest. Likewise I am not MTF (male to female) either.


Nor am I intersexed (what they used to call a hermaphrodite, a person whose body has both male and female organs) nor "bigender", which looks like it also means the same thing.


Nor would I call myself "agender" (this is the first place I've seen this word, but the Greek prefix "a-" means "without"), nor "non-binary". And what "neutrois" is I don't really know.


Several of the terms that remain might apply to me. "Two spirit" I perhaps am, but that implies that I am Native American. "Pangender " might do also, but I think with me it is more of a case of switching back and forth from one to the other, rather than being all at the same time. Out of all the terms that start with "gender" -- I could accurately be called "gender nonconforming", "gender variant", or "genderqueer". (Not "gender questioning", I answered most all of the questions I had when I came out back in the 90s.) Out of all of them, I think I like "gender fluid" the best. That’s what I want to do; flow from one side to the other and back and then over again, depending on how I feel at the moment.

[Ressie]

Arms, hands, adam's apples and other male giveaways must be hidden to pull off passing. I can see myself in the mirror as a woman for a few seconds, but as soon as the hands come into view that goes away. Legs are also too muscular in myself and most every CD.

The human brain/eye connection fills in blanks at a first glance and sees what it wants to see. Looking closer a second time reveals those masculine attributes that haven't been hidden or disguised. And there are so many physical differences between men and women when you think about it.

So it seems that the question could be interpreted as: When you see yourself are you being real about your appearance or do you see the fantasy? For me, it's both. I prefer to see an attractive woman, but LOL.

[Teresa]

Isha we use the term in the Uk maybe we got it from the Aussies during the war, Donna may put you right. It just means to fool around to us, to be a complete "arse" just means to be a complete idiot, something I do quite regular like being outed to a horse rider or a commuter train !!

[EllenJo]

I see a feminine version of me. Not a true female but not a true male either. I see me and I feel pretty!
Ellen Jo

[Raychel]

When I dress up and look in the mirror,
the person I see looking back is true to ones self, comfortable and happy.
Just happens to be a guy, in a dress, pretty nice boobs, and some killer legs.

[NicoleScott]

My CDing is and has always been about creating the kind of feminine (as my brain defines it) look that I like to see. I like glamour taken to a high level and then over-the-top. I like that look in GG's and CDers. No feminine identities or wannabees here. I'm a guy doing the looking, even when looking at myself in the mirror at the most glamorous OTT image I can create.
So, answer to #1: I see a woman, even knowing I'm not. #2: I have been out and have been seen as a woman by some and by a CDer by others. It's OK to be perceived as a CDer.
If there's a contradiction there, understand that there's some mind-bending going on in my transforming. I focus on what I want to see and I accentuate and exaggerate the things that I perceive as feminine. I'm sure the public sees me differently than I do.