Personas--all responses welcome

[FAB Forum Mods]

Some of the GGs have been curious about the way some of our members have different personas when they are dressed, while other members feel that they are one and the same person when en femme or as the male self. I am posting this question on their behalf. Responses from all members (GG, TS, CD) are welcome.

Why do some TG individuals treat this as if there is a WHOLE other person if it is suppose to be the real him (you)?

Is this for the SO to be able to process or is it for the CD to be able to process?

[Allison Chaynes]

I started seeing a therapist for issues unrelated to CDing, or so I thought. One if the things we duscussed was this exact topic. I personally am the same person in guy or girl mode. However, she told me she has had CD clients in the past who had been diagnosed as schizophrenic and were completely different when CDing. I am NOT suggesting that anyone who takes on a different persona is schizophrenic, just sharing her anecdote. If it matters, I identify as bigendered, bith male and female but one person.

[~Joanne~]

I am going to be honest....I have never felt like there is a whole other person, or prosona, trying to get out. I have never tried to do a femme voice, nor do my mannerisms change all that much. I am just more relaxed when dressed. Yes I sit like a woman when in a dress and I try to walk like a woman when in heels. This may be because I am still fairly a closet dresser and only my SO knows about my CDing (and my sister's and friends here) this could change if I went out though .

[Julie Denier]

I'm pretty much the same either way. I discovered this when I went out dressed for the first time about six weeks ago. Leading up to the evening, I kept thinking that being out in public dressed was going to unleash this inner woman, and I was worried about how I was going to talk, move, act, etc. Turns out that Julie and her dude "host" are pretty much the same - she just speaks a bit more softly, takes smaller steps and sits like a proper lady in a skirt

[Nadine Spirit]

I do not have seperate personas so I suppose I am just speculating in answering this. My theory is that it helps the TG person to make sense of their internal feelings. It is quite odd having desires to do something for which you have no good logical explanation for. So, where could these weird desires come from?

It must be that you have a woman inside of you. Why? Because a man does not want these things. What things? Dresses, shaving, painting my nails, wearing jewelry, high heels, etc. A man does not want these things. Women want these things. I want these things, thus I must be a woman, or at least have a woman inside.

I think it has a lot to do with society only offering two options. You are a man, or a woman. There is nothing inbetween. It is harder existing inbetween, people have an easier time with the concept of one of the other.

[marshalynn]

I don't change any at all, now I feel normal and happy with the female me, took a long time to get here, about 60 years, will be 71 in 5 days, I dress in fem 99.9 % of the time now. I don't feel any different now than I did when I was ten years old, just more knowledge and freedom to be me.

[Persephone]

Nadine said some interesting things in her post. But I think there are additional factors for those of us who seem to have two external personas.

We live in a bigendered world of men and women and our vocabularies in nearly all of the world's languages reflect that. Therefore if one is out and about they need a gendered name and it would be shocking if they were referred to with other than appropriately gendered pronouns.

That's not a problem for those who only know the person as either male or female, but it is difficult for those, like spouses, who know them as male and female. One way to minimize the issue is to create a dichotomy -- "him" and "her." Kinda like being married to a person of one gender who has a twin of the other gender. Helps keep the mental scorecard clean.

It isn't gender schizophrenia in practically all instances, it is social convenience and comfort.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Zooey]

As I've told a number of friends, the biggest difference between me en homme and me en femme is how likely I am to be drinking through a cocktail straw in a semi-effective attempt to prolong lip color. :P

That said, I do adjust my mannerisms a bit, and I do go by a different name - largely because I aim to blend/fit-in, and it seems appropriate to adopt a female name while presenting that way (for the benefit of others as much as myself). I'm always just me - I just happen to go by one of two names, depending on what I'm wearing at the time. With respect to mannerisms/behaviors, I'm finding that (to the extent that they differ) my en femme and en homme behaviors are both moving towards a more unified/balanced place (probably a bit femme of center) as I make my femme side a larger part of my life. I'd like to think that this signifies me making progress towards full self-acceptance, whatever form that might eventually take, but who knows.

One thing that has me a bit perplexed is that I've joined some fantastic women's groups, and while they're very supportive/open/welcoming, they only know me as Zoe. i don't feel bad about that because - again - I'm always me, but it does give me pause on how to handle that sort of thing. I have zero interest in having "two lives" (one is hard enough, thanks), but I'm still finding my way with how to navigate that while still not being out everywhere, especially at work.

I do get curious about those who refer to their femme self by name, as if in the 3rd person... I've never really done that, and I'm never quite sure how to interpret it.

[Donnagirl]

Hi there,

I would not say I present a different persona, I think I just shed inhibitions dressed, those inhibitions that are decades built into the fabric of 'boy me'. Dressing somehow allows me to explore emotions, experiences or situations I would never 'normally'. It gives me licence to live outside the lifestyle framework I have built.

I see myself as just me in a dress, but there are subtle differences. Different likes, different preferences, differences that others notice more that I do. Boy me is a grumpy, macho control freak, no dress sense, no like of jewellery and no patience just to name a few. Donna is the antithesis of this.

I like and enjoy these differences, especially when someone points a new one out to me..

[Aprilrain]

Schizophrenia is NOT multiple personalities that is a huge misconception. When a person has Schizophrenia they tend to hallucinate people places and things that are not there and there is often a paranoid delusion component to it as well. Think "A Beautiful Mind" Glad we got that out of the way!

I can't answer from the CD perspective but I can say I've met tonnes of them and none of them struck me as feminine in anyway other than dress.

From the TS perspective I think what happens is you just drop all the male b***. I didn't start "acting" like a woman I stopped acting like I though a man was supposed to act.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi FAB4's After 67yrs. of dressing I still don't feel like two different people it's just me dressing
and trying to look as feminine as possible and seeing that lovely lady smiling at me in the mirror.

[sarahcsc]

Hello FAB,

Personality is defined as a pattern of thinking and behaviour that is enduring and predictable when exposed to certain situations. It is shaped by our conscious and unconscious thoughts although more the latter perhaps.

It is interesting to note how my behaviour and mannerisms change when I'm dressed, but that is because I look absolutely hideous walking like a man in a dress! Lol. I wonder if that represents my insecurity and my need to idolize myself (I'm very narcissistic as you can see). I wouldn't say that my personality changes when I'm dressed because that wouldn't fit with my definition of personality. I reckon it is important for crossdressers in general to keep their identity as a genetic male, intact, even when dressing, because they intend to take off that dress at some stage in order to resume their normal lives. It is however difficult sometimes to just "stop behaving like a man" when dressed especially when we have lived our entire lives as men. For example, it is almost a habit for me to burp and to walk in a haphazard fashion as a man but I have to consciously remind myself not to do that when dressed because its disgusting! But my female mannerisms are now beginning to seep into my daily life even when I'm not dressed. This was unexpected but I welcome it.

Being a woman is a whole lot more than just looking pretty which is probably at the forefront of a crossdresser's mind. There are things that women think about that men struggle to understand, regardless if they're in a dress or not. These are things that make up our personality and it is shaped by our temperament, physiology, culture, upbringing, beliefs and values, and our cumulative life experiences.

Some GGs found it offensive that men find comfort in dressing up, as if "being a woman was easy". I think they have mistaken the very meaning of crossdressing because crossdressing as an act alone, is not an attempt to become female but rather as an expression of a person's identity (which includes his sexuality), albeit a more hidden and forbidden part of his identity. HRT and surgical augmentation probably sends a stronger message. Dressing up makes us look like women externally, but although it makes us feel feminine internally, it can only be a close approximation of what women experience as a whole. I envy them at times because of this.

Love,
Sarah

[kimdl93]

I don't have a separate identity. I may attempt to affect somewhat more feminine voice,mannerisms or walk, simply to appear less masculine while en femme, but I don't shift personalities. What I do feel is a much greater consonance between my "self" and my appearance when I'm presenting as a woman.

[Ressie]

Playing the part can be fun, but I find that when I'm with a group of CDs we're pretty much just guys as far as persona goes, even though using feminine pronouns are used. If out in public there may be more of acting involved for some to aid in presenting as a female. And then, maybe some of us get that girly feeling inside that just can't be held in. What I find odd is how many CDs here refer to their fem name in the 3rd person. i.e. "my wife finally met Julie", "Fran needs some girl time" etc. This reference indicates a separate persona doesn't it?

[Kate Simmons]

The way I see it is that in everyday life, we ALL wear a lot of different "hats" or have a lot of different specialties for particular tasks that are not present or apparent all the time. Picture if you will that we have sections or "modules" in our brain we kind of "wheel" into when we need to utilize a particular skill or specialty. Women, for instance are homemaker, driver, nurse, caregiver, chef, housekeeper, etc. the list goes on and on but are not usually utilizing these abilities at the same time although sometimes it may seem so when multi-tasking.

For the CDer or TG person they may have to get into a certain mode to invoke feminine feelings and actions. It's kind of a feed back feed forward process in that the reaction becomes it's own driving action. It could also involve a separate set of neural wiring or "pathways" in the brain that is overlayed on the "normal" one although this has not been proven. Kind of like having a selector switch to choose two different pathways with their accompanying actions and reactions.Granted it sounds kind of convoluted but then again human beings are complex beings and TG folks seem to be more complex than others.

[JamieG]

I think some CDs build macho facades to hide behind. When they dress up, they can drop this facade and may seem like a whole different person. I was never particularly macho, so when I am en femme, I am still basically the same person, albeit more free to express my feminine side. I might sit more lady-like, take smaller steps when I walk, and speak in a slightly softer tone, but I'm still just as likely to order a beer, talk about football, and crack bad jokes as I am in male mode. I think the fact there are not two separate personae is one of things that makes it easier for my wife to accept my CDing. I am still fundamentally the man she married.

[Desirae]

For some I would say that, simply, by keeping the male and female sides separate, by viewing these two sides as separate personae, it is somehow easier for them to keep their masculine side masculine and their feminine side feminine. I suppose it keeps their psyche from becoming too convoluted. This is just a guess, but I would say that CDs who have this perspective are the ones who have very strong masculine sides and very strong femme sides, as well. It probably helps them keep things in perspective and keeps the "murkiness" out of their being. I would, also, say that most of this perspective is, probably, "mostly" for the benefit of the masculine side whereas the person doesn't want any feminine traits leaking over onto that side. I guess it could be described as some type of "inner defense mechanism" that some of us have.

[Lorileah]

Was I another person? Was I really different? I guess the answer is yes. And no. The person I was before was a mask, and act, something I put on to please others around me. When I dressed that shell, that lie, went away. I didn't see this. It is hard to see something you are close to. I didn't think I changed at all, just changed clothes. But those around me could see the change. One thing that really stands out is when my wife was about in the middle of her cancer. She knew I liked the clothes, I am sure she suspected I was TS. But one night was bad. I don't even remember what was going on but I was being my surly angry self. From her bed in the living room she looked at me and said "Go put on a skirt". It helped, the rest of the evening was calm. NB, she never said I could not dress, it was my own insecurities that kept me from it. My GF knew this too. From the moment she met Lori, she knew that was who I was. She complained before she died that she didn't see Lori as much as she wanted to. It was because she enjoyed being around Lori.

So, yes I must have (had) two persona. Did I think I was two people? No, but those around me did. I know now that I did. But the old one was the mask, the fake.

[Kelley]

I could not have explained how I feel better than Lori did. My experience has been the same, my male self is the act and my female is the real deal. My wife likes my female side better because I am a little kinder, gentler and seem to express a little more compassion. I am more comfortable with my femme selfe. I like my male body just fine but don't really care to compete in the male arena.

Kelley

[Teresa]

My persona doesn't change, I just need to satisfy the constant feeling inside to dress !

[latex-steph]

I act like a different person when dressed because I think I am embracing what I desire. As I guy, I am fairly reserved and I think typical looking. As a girl, I feel pretty and bubblie. Rather than hiding in the corner, I want to be the center of attention and I want people to tell me I look good. In my case I think this is just feeling safe in a costume and allowing me embrace the attitude/mentality I never get to otherwise experience....and man do I love being that girl

[flatlander_48]

I don't think it is a different persona when I dress. Perhaps somewhat more mellow, but basically the same. However, it might be a question more accurately answered by my wife.

[Mimi]

Wow--this is a lot of great answers! Thank you to everyone who has responded so far--these are all well-thought out and informative!

From a spouse point of view--there could be ups and downs to having separate personas. The upside would be that I could see my spouse as a different person--her femme self, and when we go out, we interact as friends. Then when my spouse is in male mode, I know exactly who I am with and what to expect in terms of interactions. But at the same time, I like to be able to talk to my spouse about any topic at any time, en femme or not. I would not want to ask her a "male" question while she is dressed, and have her profess ignorance or fake disinterest. I like the fact that Eryn feels like a whole person, herself, whether or not she is dressed. The clothes don't turn her into somebody else entirely.

[Zylia]

The persona, for Swiss psychologist Carl Jung, was the social face the individual presented to the world—"a kind of mask, designed on the one hand to make a definite impression upon others, and on the other to conceal the true nature of the individual" (from Wikipedia)

It's kind of like how I look and behave slightly different when I'm at work as opposed to when I'm with friends or family. I dress somewhat differently, use some other words or even another language, interact with people in other ways, etc. etc.

[PaulaQ]

Although it took me a while to realize it, buried within me was a solidly female identity. For a while last year, as I was coming out to myself, it felt as if I were really split in two - two different personalities, one male, and one female. And the male personality was really sick and dying. This was a really awful thing to experience. It was really hard to take. It took me awhile to not refer to "Scott" and "Paula" as if they were two separate people.

When I presented myself as a woman, I realized that the euphoria I felt was actually something very simple. I was happy. I'd just never really experienced that before in my life. Ever.

I later came to realize that my true identity was a female one - I'm a woman. I had built up walls of a deliberately masculine personality (at least as masculine as I could manage), to protect myself, but in the end, I felt I was suffocating in solitary confinement in this horrible prison inside of my mind. The walls of the edifice I constructed were almost pure fear. It was a horrible place to live, and by early last year, it was literally killing me. I had no desire to live anymore. Death was a far preferable alternative to life in that hellhole.

It's taken me a while to put the pieces together after coming out. I'm still have a sense of humor - that didn't change. I am still witty and intelligent. I present and behave in a stereotypically feminine manner - although that stereotype includes "soccer mom" as a part of it. My mannerisms are feminine. Some of my traits have surprised me. For example, I'm quite a lot more aggressive now than I ever was as a man. As a guy, I lived in fear. I was afraid of so many things, lest my awful secret be discovered. Without that holding me back, I've got a pretty strong personality. I'm mostly fearless now - I never was as a man. I have realized, thinking back on my life, that every time in my life I needed confidence, it came from someplace deep inside me. Turns out that place was my feminine identity. I'm far more confident now than I ever was before. I'm also more emotional, and I express my feelings as I never have.

I'm a different person now. Oh sure, there are common traits and history, but my family and pre-transition friends are finding it increasingly difficult to know me. I simply look, act, and think differently than the guy they knew for so long. Transsexuals frequently argue "I'm the same person after transition - just my body has changed." And perhaps that's true for most, I don't know. I can only say that as I've transitioned, I'm simply no longer the person I used to be.