Androgyny and Cross Dressing

[Marcelle]

Hi Sonya,

Regarding your question as to whether cross dressing will end if androgynous expression gets popular? Well, I suppose for those on the spectrum where it is just about clothes then they may go their own separate way and just enjoy wearing what they wish to wear. However for others who most likely suffer from mild GD (a little further down the TG path) it is unlikely their female identity will cease and they will still try to blend as closely as possible to women of the day. In my own case, I do not mix "boy/girl". When I am boy it is what I normally wear as a boy and when I am girl I dress all girl.

Hugs

Isha

[Sonya]

In my own case, I do not mix "boy/girl". When I am boy it is what I normally wear as a boy and when I am girl I dress all girl.

I think it will be very hard to not mix "boy/girl" for most of us as we strive to achieve a convincing female expression. Sure it would be easy to not mix boy and girl clothes but what about other androgynous expressions such as hairless arms, hands, legs, chest and facial hair when in boy mode. What happens if you decide to shape your eye brows and permanently remove your facial hair?

As far as the line between being androgynous and crossdressing. Its kind of confusing because to be androgynous you must wear clothing of the opposite sex but it is more of the overall look. Someone would actually have to look twice and decide if you are a boy or girl, not just a boy in girls cloths or a girl in boys cloths. A three day shadow and a skirt is not being androgynous, its more about what you like to wear. Its about the cloths, the hairstyle, the make up or lack there of. Oddly enough most androgynous people we see are females, especially models taking on more of a masculine role.

In my ideal androgynous world there won’t be different clothes for different sexes I really liked Eddie Izzards answer to the question of why he wears women’s clothing, his answer was "They are not women’s clothing, they are mine, I paid for them" (or along those likes). I did a Google search and agree that androgynous clothing is a lot more common with females fashion, nearly all of the images are female models wearing masculine inspired clothes.

[Erica Marie]

Thank you Sonya. I wasnt trying to pin against you. I think alot of us feel trapped in between. Like said before, third gender. Titles, descriptions, labels, its all too much. Lets just be "us"

[heatherdress]

I frequently dress "Heather Lite". It's easy to wear women's jeans, sweaters, maybe some subtle makeup at night. I have a few pair of heels that work well with boot-cut jeans. It's fun.

[charlenesomeone]

Agree with it must be something to notice. I wear girl shorts with boy shirt. No one notices.
If I put forms on, jewelry, or makeup, some notice. Is that andro?
Is Andro, guy in a dress? Is it guy with girl clothes that fit and don't stand out? Is it a guy dressed in guy with a wig?
Inquiring girls want to know.
Char

[devida]

Agree with it must be something to notice. I wear girl shorts with boy shirt. No one notices.
If I put forms on, jewelry, or makeup, some notice. Is that andro?
Is Andro, guy in a dress? Is it guy with girl clothes that fit and don't stand out? Is it a guy dressed in guy with a wig?
Inquiring girls want to know.
Char

I would say it is androgynous if the person is deliberately trying to mix genders in clothing or is deliberately presenting as non binary, third gender, a gender or whatever you want to call someone who chooses a gender that is neither male nor female. Like all other gender identities androgyny is self defined. So I would say that the clothes are not as important as the identity. I do not see why a dmab person with a beard and a dress cannot be androgynous. It all depends, I suppose, on whether you consider androgyny to be a fashion statement or a gender identity. The issue is confusing because androgyny is so often just a fashion statement.

Androgyny is a little different from other gender identities to the extent that there my be more women presenting androgynous who actually are satisfied with their core gender identity as female. This is more a result of the history of fashion than anything else and the development of women's rights. I would imagine that most men who present as androgynous are not comfortable with being defined as masculine. In the coffee house the other day, for example, more people looked at me curiously than at the woman with short hair, a man's shirt and baggy jeans. I was wearing short shorts over thigh length shape wear, a woman's shirt with high cut sleeves, and over the knee socks. She was actually crossing genders in her clothing a bit more dramatically than I was but women wearing men's clothes nowadays is entirely unexceptional. If the fashion industry gets its way and mainstreams androgynous clothes for both men and women I doubt that my presentation would be found to be any more remarkable than hers. I'm in a small seaside town. Already in cities the way I dress is unexceptional.

Even so, and even though I certainly want to be fashionable, darling, I wear androgynous clothes because androgyny is my home address.

[JoannaCD]

I frequently dress "Heather Lite". It's easy to wear women's jeans, sweaters, maybe some subtle makeup at night. I have a few pair of heels that work well with boot-cut jeans. It's fun.

I agree. It is fun, and I follow your formula adding clip on hoops, brushing my hair a bit femme, mascara and a lipstick that doesn't stand out. I use Estee Lauder Spiced Cider but I see that Ulta has the same shade a lot cheaper. I'm 6-3 and in 2" heeled clogs no one is going to think i'm trying to pass as a woman. My friend and i visited the Atlanta Botanical Garden with me dressed that way and then out to a restaurant we wanted to try. I had to stop my car and ask two guys if they could give us directions and one said, "Sure ma'am" and proceeded to do so. My friend got a chuckle out of that and said I must be truly in Joanna mode to ask for directions. And I got a thrill from being called ma'am. Maybe the makeup wasn't as subtle as I thought and sitting in a car took away the height issue. Anyway, yes, fun!!!!

[dragdoll]

Yes, this is a thread I can really get behind. I've been an androgyne and gender-bender most of my life. Eventually it intensified over the years then I went into full drag crossdressing, then kind of shifted back to androgynous, dressing in more unisex clothes sometimes leaning more to the fem side when I'm by myself, and leaning more to the masculine side when I'm around people I know. Lately I've been going out wearing platform flip flops with super skinny jeans and a fitted unisex shirt, and I have a girlish 'pixie' style haircut. I catch people checking me out from time to time, but I've been getting more comfortable just being gender fluid. But I phase in and out of it still.

I came up with my own personal 'mode chart' that I use to determine what level of masculine to feminine I might be in at any time:

Mode 0 = Totally raw male mode, no femininity whatsoever
Mode 1 = Mildly androgynous, leaning more towards masculine but some fem mixed in
Mode 2 = Unisex/androgynous, leaning more towards feminine
Mode 3 = Fully Crossdressed 100%, almost passable as a female
Mode 4 = Transexual, taking hormones, full mtf transition, living as a female 24/7*




*I have never done Mode 4, nor do I plan on it, but I did fantasize about it briefly.