Question from a GG

[sometimes_miss]

Thanks for your thoughtful response. He used your words exactly, he said meeting me is a "one in a million" opportunity. I guess this explains his generosity with me. I am glad that you wrote because I'm just trying to understand his mindset and where he's coming from and your response helped.

I wasn't saying that he was being generous for that reason. Just that it MIGHT be the reason. Easy enough to tell; watch how he treats people who can do absolutely nothing for him. Waitresses, garbage men, people at the fast food counter, sales staff, etc.; is he nice to them? Does he greet people or just walk past them staring straight ahead every time (of course, if he lives in a big city that can change things a bit, simply because you can't interact with that many people)? More than just polite, when someone does anything for him, does he truly thank them with a smile? Is he naturally drawn to animals? Kids? Does he help people for no reason? And I don't mean how he treats YOU. Most men will treat people nice when they want something from them. It's how they treat those same people when they DON'T want, or need, anything from them, that tells you what they're really like.

[Marcelle]

I have read through all the posts and to be honest I am bit confused. . Yes the CDer is married and perhaps (just perhaps) he may be slinging a line of woe and misery to enamour a younger woman or . . . perhaps he is a lonely man who has become comfortable in a DADT relationship in which he cannot discuss things important to him and now he is looking to connect emotionally with a kind soul who is willing to listen. The fact that she is a GG seems to automatically imply he wants to cheat on his wife. Yet I read nothing in the post which implies he wants to cheat . . . no invites to come and meet him at some secluded rendezvous noted. Just conversation about what is important to him with a woman who seems to understand. Could it blossom into more? Possibly and guess what . . . it happens all the time. Just because he is married doesn't mean he can't fall in love with someone else . . . we don't always marry our soul mate first time out the gate. Expecting someone to stay in a relationship they are not happy with because they are married and have a family . . . well kind of seems 1950s to me. I have a friend whose grandmother divorced her husband of 50 years and married another man who she met at a church group because he was her soul mate.

Goodness me, we (CDers) all know how lonely this life can be for some of us . . . to coin a phrase from a Mama Cass song "The loneliest kind of lonely". Yet so many are ready to crucify this CDer (who might even be a member/lurker here BTW) as some sneaky old dude trying to hook a younger woman for a good time. Why? Because that is what guys do? Really are we going to paint an entire gender with the same brush based on the bad decisions of a few . . . I guess we could then extrapolate that all CDers are sneaky bad people because this guy probably is. We always talk about how people don't give us (CDers) a chance yet many are doing the same thing here . . . judging one person based on nothing but conjecture and personal experience. While personal experience is good form of advice, you also have to be cognizant that your life is not the keystone of all things and there may actually be people out there who have good motives to do what they choose to do.

I can understand why the OP took this personally and I doubt we will see her here again (unfortunately). To imply this family man wants to cheat arbitrarily casts her in the role of the shameless soul intent on breaking up the marriage. That may not have been your intention but remember what you say can and will be interpreted several ways and it will not always be the way the you wanted it to be interpreted. The great saying "the pen is mightier than the sword" rings true in that words (even good intentioned ones) can do more damage to the soul than a sword.

Okay I will step off the soapbox.

Hugs

Isha

[AllieSF]

Well stated Isha. It is funny how we tend to go from giving sound advice to then labeling all others, just like ourselves by the way, as perverted men looking to score and deceive. People, give the world a break and realize that, yes, some of those people exist but the majority of us are actually very nice people. Also, give Lisa some respect for being a mature and very well founded person and not some innocent unknowing little girl, nor someone trying to break up someone else's relationship.

HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL!

[Stephanie47]

Hmmm? I cannot remember the last time a woman gave me a pair of my favorite panties... I wonder what my wife would say if a woman she did not know gave me a pair of my favorite intimate panties? Just wondering out loud.

[Marcelle]

Hmm . . . what is she bought him a "golf club" or a "bottle of brandy"?

[Lisa9099]

Hmmm? I cannot remember the last time a woman gave me a pair of my favorite panties... I wonder what my wife would say if a woman she did not know gave me a pair of my favorite intimate panties? Just wondering out loud.

Sorry, I wasn't going to come back to this site, but I have to respond to this as I feel again like judgments are being unfairly made. The reason why I sent him panties was because those are the items that he bought from me. There aren't many items that he needs or wants, but I know that he likes (loves) his panties....I think most of you do. If I met him because he purchased batteries from me, I probably would have sent him some extra batteries.

And thank you Isha and AllieSF for your responses. We've really done nothing wrong, unless you feel talking is wrong and he's never said one bad word about his wife - not one disrespectful word - if he did, then that would be wrong.

I do appreciate that so many of you responded, but most responses were based on the premise that he's a coward, a cheater, a pervert, and a man with little character - it's very far from the truth. Do I know everything about him? No, I don't, but I do know that he's a good person and has been nothing but respectful to me.

[ReineD]

He used your words exactly, he said meeting me is a "one in a million" opportunity. I guess this explains his generosity with me.

I don't know if you're big on studies, but the little research there has been so far (below is a sampling if you're interested), report there are many more accepting wives than CDers who happen to be in non-understanding relationships believe. It doesn't surprise me that a CDer would believe that an accepting woman is one in a million, if his wife is not supportive and he hasn't spoken to others about the CDing because he is closeted. Also, a lot of members here report having feelings of shame and guilt and some of these feelings may well be projected onto others.

So to begin, have a look at all the posts and threads just in this forum from members who do have supportive partners. I've run a search for "accepting wives, supportive SO", there are about 4 pages of threads and not all the threads about supportive partners will have been tagged:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...portive+so%2C+


-----------------------------------

These are published articles in academic journals. Even as far back as the mid-1990s, there was a great deal more support than many CDers believe. It continued to improve as more information became available on the internet. Anyway, you can look them up if you wish, or maybe other members will find the information useful:

Study of 106 women over 6 years. One in four women (25%) reveal that CD is sexually stimulating. 66% don't leave the marriage.
Brown (1994). "Women in relationships with cross dressing men: A descriptive study from a nonclinical setting". Archives of Sexual Behavior, 23, 515-530.

In this study of over 1,000 crossdressers, 28% of the wives were completely accepting while 47% had mixed views. Only 19% reported antagonism towards the crossdressing.
Docter, Prince (1997). "Transvestism: A survey of 1,032 crossdressers. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 26, 589-605.

This is a small study, but a revealing one. It shows that most married men had wives who were either tolerant or accepting of the crossdressing, and the most negative responses (anger, betrayal, and fear) were from wives who had found out about their husband's crossdressing years into their marriage. Do you know if your friend's wife was told about the CDing when they married?
Reynolds, Caron (2000) "How intimate relationships are impacted when heterosexual men crossdress". Journal of Psychology & Human sexuality, 12(3), 63-77.

[PaulaQ]

Isha - how would your wife feel if she read another woman writing this about you, particularly that first line?

And I find myself falling quickly and I think he is quite smitten. He’s about 20 years my senior. He’s very generous and bought me a few presents and I’ve bought him some of his favorite panties in return.

Especially if the friendship with the woman writing it came as a surprise to her as well?

Of course your relationship isn't DADT - so there's an expectation of disclosure that's absent in a DADT situation. And I think that's the trouble in such a relationship - at what point DO you disclose something?

[flatlander_48]

I would add:

...and how do you avoid feeling it's like hitting a wall?

[mykell]

hello again lisa,
you set the question to be answered in two very different scenarios, plus your original post has key words, "guilt, alluring, craved," and the last lines,

"What’s a GG to do??? Like I said, this may not even go anywhere. He has a lot invested in his marriage. I don’t know if me being 20 years younger and loving the CD part of him might have him do something that he really would have never done.

Any thoughts?? "

may not go anywhere, something he may not have ever done ..... suggestive lines....potential for a relationship....


you received thoughts from about 30+ members, very questionable scenario.....

soo....please do take the advise and criticism from where it comes from, and please dont judge the whole community by a single thread posted during what is generally a slow time in the seasonal part of the calender year, many not participating....and if this had been posted in a different section you may have had different answers to the main question you raised,

"if you are in a DADT marriage and in your own bedroom and you fell in love with another women who accepted and enjoyed you the way you are, what would you do?"

i cant answer as my situation is different and i keyed in on the "whats a gg to do" I did however key in on the crossdressing aspect as this is a crossdressing support site and as such i hope you were impressed that we will try to be as truthful and fair and not always side with the crossdresser when the task of opinion is presented.

i hope that your participation wont end here by a single negative experience, with or without the prospect of you dating a CDer it is better that we have a different perspective available from the "outside" of our "norm" to ponder from one that accepts our lifestyle....hope to read more from you in the future....

[Shelly Preston]

Sorry, I wasn't going to come back to this site, but I have to respond to this as I feel again like judgments are being unfairly made.

Lisa, its sometimes hard for people to be correct with limited information. I am sure a lot of replies were based on their own experiences.

The reason why I sent him panties was because those are the items that he bought from me. There aren't many items that he needs or wants, but I know that he likes (loves) his panties....I think most of you do. If I met him because he purchased batteries from me, I probably would have sent him some extra batteries.

I cant argue with that idea we all love getting those little extras when we buy anything anywhere.

And thank you Isha and AllieSF for your responses. We've really done nothing wrong, unless you feel talking is wrong and he's never said one bad word about his wife - not one disrespectful word - if he did, then that would be wrong.

I do appreciate that so many of you responded, but most responses were based on the premise that he's a coward, a cheater, a pervert, and a man with little character - it's very far from the truth. Do I know everything about him? No, I don't, but I do know that he's a good person and has been nothing but respectful to me.

The biggest problem you have I would say is the age gap and what you expect form continued contact or meeting. I know a lot of people who started relationships online which worked out fine. Be they friendships or something more.

Lisa, We cant make a decision for you all we can do is give you differing viewpoints and let you choose.

[Lisa9099]

Isha - how would your wife feel if she read another woman writing this about you, particularly that first line?



Especially if the friendship with the woman writing it came as a surprise to her as well?

Of course your relationship isn't DADT - so there's an expectation of disclosure that's absent in a DADT situation. And I think that's the trouble in such a relationship - at what point DO you disclose something?

I can answer part of this for you. The fact that he's 20 years my senior is just a fact and it's not like I'm 25 years old either - I'm a mature woman. The part about him being very generous - it's just a truth. He appears to be generous with everyone in his life. I try to be the same way. When we originally met and he bought items from me, I gave him quite a few more than he originally purchased because I couldn't believe someone would pay that much. I also did that on his second order. This was before we even spoke, so the generosity actually started with me. Once we got to know each other better, I think he realized that he's in a far, far better financial situation than I am in and at Christmas time, he gave me a generous gift. I am single and wasn't able to have children. Do you know how many other Christmas presents I received? Zilch, zero, not one! I actually cried when I saw that he sent me something. It was the sweetest gesture. I sent him his favorite panties because that's what I know he likes and that's what I had that I could give him - he doesn't have a need/want for anything else. Even those, he can buy for himself. I just didn't want to not send him anything. I also told him that he doesn't need to buy me or give me anything at all.

That being said, I asked him last night if he thought we'd ever meet. His answer was, "who knows?". That answer made me smile because I realized that we are both in the same boat. What happens between us? Who knows? Life will happen.

I find myself falling quickly and I think he is smitten. Yeah, I do I kind of like the guy - I do. From what I know of him, he's everything I'd want in a husband, lover, friend, brother or father. I think he thinks I'm pretty special too. Does it mean he will leave his wife and life behind? I don't really think so and I'm okay with that. I've had opportunities to be with married men in the past and I've never done that before - it's not something that I'd want, but with him - I'm just going to let life happen.

[Teresa]

Lisa,
After all the replies no one appears to have given it a thought that at 72 the guy may be totally lonely in a now loveless relationship he may do nothing about your contact but at least he feels he's found someone who's interested in him ! Perhaps that's all he needs, in reality the CDing part maybe irrelevant !

It is hard being in a relationship like that, I sometimes feel my CDing is being used as an excuse to cover up lack of deep feeling anymore !

[Claire Cook]

That being said, I asked him last night if he thought we'd ever meet. His answer was, "who knows?". That answer made me smile because I realized that we are both in the same boat. What happens between us? Who knows? Life will happen.

I find myself falling quickly and I think he is smitten. Yeah, I do I kind of like the guy - I do. From what I know of him, he's everything I'd want in a husband, lover, friend, brother or father. I think he thinks I'm pretty special too. Does it mean he will leave his wife and life behind? I don't really think so and I'm okay with that. I've had opportunities to be with married men in the past and I've never done that before - it's not something that I'd want, but with him - I'm just going to let life happen.

Lisa, the more I read in this thread the more I hope this somehow works out for both of you. You both are obviously warm, caring people.

I don't know if you're big on studies, but the little research there has been so far (below is a sampling if you're interested), report there are many more accepting wives than CDers who happen to be in non-understanding relationships believe.

Reine, this is probably off-topic but thank you so much for pointing these out. I had no idea -- just judging from the posts here, I've have thought that tolerant / accepting wives / GF's / SO's were in the minority. Or maybe that's because we tend to focus on those of us with troubled relationships.

[Lisa9099]

Lisa,
After all the replies no one appears to have given it a thought that at 72 the guy may be totally lonely in a now loveless relationship he may do nothing about your contact but at least he feels he's found someone who's interested in him ! Perhaps that's all he needs, in reality the CDing part maybe irrelevant !

It is hard being in a relationship like that, I sometimes feel my CDing is being used as an excuse to cover up lack of deep feeling anymore !

Thanks for your response, Teresa. I think you're probably very right and I'm okay with him doing nothing about it. I'm not putting any pressure on him to do anything at all, and nor has he put any pressure on me. I'm happy to be his friend. I can sleep at night knowing I'm not doing anything wrong. Part of me thinks all that he needed was to hear a woman say that he's totally okay the way he is...and he is. His wife makes him feel less of a man. I may be wrong, but I almost feel like women in the DADT relationships have a psychological stronghold on the CD'r.

[Annaliese]

Lisa you are friend with what sound like a vary nice man, and there is nothing wrong with that, age should not make any difference, Let your heart lead you.

[Jill Devine]

Lisa if you knew me in real life you would know me to be a very non-judgemental person. God I've messed up so many times I would not know how to begin to list my mistakes so who am I to judge you. Please believe me when I say I am coming from a very gentle place. Promise.
My advice to you is to try and remove the CD aspect from the situation. Then the question boils down to what to do about a married man you are chatting to online while emotional feelings are starting to grow. Well my advice will always be to rather walk away because there are so many innocent people who could get hurt. My advice actually isn't meant to be judgemental but rather meant to be simple good advice. You have a very limited window of time left before emotions grow past the point of no return. I would encourage you to rather step back while you can. You sound like a very grounded and smart person and I think deep down you know what the right thing to do is. Unfortunately a lot of the advice given by the group has come off as attacking and judgemental so I understand the human reaction to push back.

Anyways I wish you nothing but the best and I hope that you consider the advice.

[Lisa9099]

I was going to reply to the thread that Issha started, but it was closed. Here is my last statement on the matter. Thanks again all for your replies, regardless of where you stand in the matter.

Let me start by saying that I was going to leave this site and never come back again. I was lurking on here for almost a good month to try to learn more about cross dressing and DADT relationships. I had finally gotten the guts to post my first question and I didn’t expect the responses that I received. I can take advice, even if it’s not what I want to hear, but it’s the assumption that he’s a horrible person looking for some illicit affair that started to really irritate me. I asked him last night if he thought we’d ever meet. He stated very calmly, “who knows?”. We likely may never meet. I’m okay with that – first and foremost, I want to be his friend. I gave him panties as a gift because that’s what he bought from me and I know he likes them – no other reason. He gave me a Christmas gift because he knew I wasn’t getting one from anyone else – I don’t have a spouse or children. I think it was one of the nicest things anyone has done for me in my life. It literally made me want to cry – it was so sweet, but most of you turned it into something other than that. Sometimes things just are what they are – he’s a generous person. He’s not just generous with me, he’s generous with all of the people that he cares about. He said he was, “just happy to make me happy”. To me, that’s a great person who I am lucky to have as a friend.

One poster commented that my story was “a crock”. Well thanks for that lovely statement. I’m not sure what about my story made you feel that way. People questioned why I used words like “alluring,” “feeling guilty,” and such. Well, to be frank, I used alluring because he is alluring. Last time I looked an intelligent, handsome, kind, successful man is pretty damn alluring. I used “feeling guilty” because I do feel guilty because he is married. My story would be a crock if I didn’t use the words that I was really feeling. I’m a reasonably attractive woman, I own my own place, I have been at the same job for almost twenty years, I don’t drink much, if at all, I don’t smoke, - I have a lot of good qualities. I don’t need a married man. He and I happened upon each other. This is life, isn’t it? Things happen and they’re not always pretty.

What I wanted to learn more about was DADT marriages and how they make someone feel – truly feel. It might even be more psychologically damaging than being alone, but what do I know? My story was basically to tell you the reasons and give you an idea of why I was asking. Will I lurk around here and throw my opinions in every now and then, I just may, but I don’t think I’d put my situation out there again. I’ll just learn via my own experience.

[Christina Alice]

Lisa,
I think it's very sad that the world thinks a man (or CD) can't have a real friendship with a woman without it having to mean a relationship. Comments about a 72-year old man are out of place (I'm 72 this year and married) because friendship between people is just that: friendship and it can be between people of any age. I have a great friendship with a married woman in another country where we have a house. We correspond by email most day about all sorts of things and there has never been any question of it being a relationship. Both our spouses know that we correspond in this way and there is no problem. Even more than this, my wife has had a friendship with a married former work colleague for the last 50 years during which time he would phone her quite regularly and pick her up from our house and take her to dinner on occasion - no problem. They were friends (and still are) and she is still my wife.
On the other hand, there is always someone around who will read all the wrong things into such a friendship. I would say, ignore them and live your life as you want. You are dead an awful long time and this isn't a dress rehearsal: it's your one shot AT LIFE.

[Katey888]

Lisa,

You've had a lot of opinions expressed already here and advice given freely - unfortunately we are effectively a public, amateur forum, and that sometimes shows in the breadth of opinion and range of experiences.... but that is the nature of the forum, as subjects that we wholly agree on as a group are generally as rare as hen's teeth...

You are a mature woman who obviously understands the potential pitfalls... You've tapped a lot of very emotive opinions here, most of it from members who are NOT in a DADT relationship... (me neither) - had you asked explicitly ONLY for DADT members to reply, it might have been a more balanced and less judgmental perspective you would have received... might have been...

I'd just offer this one piece of advice: you know you have to make your own choices based on your own values and beliefs, not those of others. Even if you filtered out those in DADT relationships here, YOU are still unique and YOUR SITUATION is unique... One thing that comes back to me again and again as I review my life and what happens in it, is how much of it could and should have been experiential, and I passed up those opportunities because I didn't fully appreciate how much more valuable it is to experience those moments rather than be too safe and too concerned about the impact on others... We are all relatively selfish with some things (the Human Condition drives us to that a bit) and it's not a bad thing, particularly if your own values and beliefs can live with it...

It sounds to me like you have one of those opportunities to progress or discard... what's the worst that can happen? And are you prepared to live with the outcome?

BTW, just pondering.... I think many men might find it hard to offhandedly reject the attentions of a woman much younger, and one so accepting too... You might just be inciting a little envy here with your opportunity and situation... just an observation...

Good luck - and do come back - we're not a bad bunch of weirdos overall...

Katey x

[SandraInHose]

Lisa, you've been provided with a LOT of advice, most of it leaning one direction, with only a small percentage leaning the other. You seem resistant to most of this advice, and I sympathize, as not every aspect of any relationship can be summed up in a few paragraphs.

The other thing is that everybody knows that asking complete and semi-anonymous strangers on the internet is the best way to solve our dilemmas! (LOL just kidding!)

Although many of us have life's experience, none of us can hand it off and make it fit anyone else's life. If I could give my adult kids anything, it would be all of my life's experience, just so they wouldn't have to learn things the hard way, like all of us have. But I cannot do that, I can only offer advice and guidance, such as what you're receiving here. We all mean well, and each of us believe our opinion is right. Nobody's leading you astray, but you and only you must be the one to guide your own ship, as it goes, and of course, be responsible for what may happen. Some of the best-laid plans do not live up to expectations, while others sometime exceed expectations. You can play it safe and wonder 'what if?' Or you can go with your gut. Make your decision and keep us posted...wishing you the best no matter which direction you go.

FWIW, I tend to lean toward the advice docrobbysherry gave, especially his last sentence. (at the top of this page...reply #76).

[PaulaQ]

@Lisa - again, I'm sorry that I came off as judgmental. Sometimes good people find themselves in difficult situations, and particularly with ethically difficult situations, my only concern was that when things go wrong, they tend to go really wrong. So I hope that doesn't happen to you.

I sympathize that you are both lonely, and I wish you both the best with your friendship. Being in a lonely, loveless marriage is an terrible situation, as many here can attest.

[Annaliese]

Please, stop we have already run her off, enough is enough.

[Lorileah]

I agree, that's enough for this thread

[Tamara Croft]

I know Lori locked this thread, but I just wanted to applaud the judge, jury and executioners on here, well done, you sure know how to show some support don't you....

Lisa, you'll have to excuse some of the 'supposed' supportive members who have been horrible to you in this thread, we aren't all like that here (I'm a GG btw). These members here giving you hell aren't innocent either, maybe you touched a nerve with a few of them, who knows, I can only apologise for them making you feel judged