A big black cloud….

[Michelle Deere]

has descended and obscured the bright rays of sun that were my new found understanding of self, what I am and what role crossdressing plays in my life.

It came about when I asked my wife if I could attend this months cd/tv club meeting in the city. Though she had said yes (reluctantly I guess) two months ago but weather stopped that from happening, this time it set of a bunch of fireworks. The first thing she said was “I suppose I can’t stop you” and then she brought up the issue of me having told the kids without having talked to her about it (some of you may know the story). I have apologized for this and know it is wrong, but I don’t think she will ever forgive me for it. I apologized again.
She did say that there is nothing wrong in principal with crossdressing , at home, with nobody around. However, some of the other things she did mention:
-That I’m only thinking of myself,
-that I didn’t consider how the kids would react and what domino effects might have on their mental well-being and that it may have played a role in #3s current issues (he is seeing a councillor for anxiety and dark thoughts, including cutting). What would have happened if one of them had told a friend and they had spread that around school (they have all said they wouldn’t do such a thing), to which my wife said “well of course they would say that”,
-that I’m putting myself ahead of others,
-that I obviously don’t respect women, ( but I do, but I can’t argue this point with her) because of the way I dress; high heels (2” max) and lots of makeup (kind of required as a guy trying to look like a woman) and that I start doing what I would consider “woman’s work” around the house (I find that strange as I will regularly clean the cats boxes, clean the bathrooms, vacuum, hand wash dishes in guy mode),
-what would happen and how would the kids feel if something happened to me if I was out in public, like something happening in the women’s restroom and it made the news (use of the washroom for the gender being expressed is actually protected under provincial legislation).
I guess I have to become a Jedi and think only of others and nothing of myself.

Only #3 was at home during this conversation and he was in his room, headphones on, listening to music. My wife thought that maybe the kids didn’t know that she know. I had told them not to talk about “it”, and this upset her in that the kids hadn’t said anything to her, to which I pointed out that this was a good thing, but she said we all should have talked about it together. When I offered to call a family meeting, it was outright rejected…this wasn’t the time to talk about it because #3 was at home…and especially that this was not a good time considering the tough time he was having.
I thought that maybe she of all people would understand how important it is for someone’s mental being to be able to talk about a situation. I said that if I can’t meet with likeminded people, maybe I should go see a professional, to which she said “maybe you should if that’s the way you are thinking”.

All of the advancements I have made, all the feelings of joy I have recently experience, have all been replace with a heavy heart and a massive amount of guilt. I don’t know how to express my feeling to her or how to explain things to her anymore for fear of outright rejection. The last thing I want to do is hurt my kids (again, they have all told me it is no big deal to them that I’m a crossdresser) or my dear wife.
I fear my crossdressing will now be severely curtailed. I don’t know how I will handle this mentally. I don’t know how I will be able to put the genie back in the bottle.

[melanie206]

I'm sure your wife is feeling that, by telling the kids without her knowing about it, you aren't being a team player. The grief she is giving you about going out is probably justified. You need to regain her trust. My wife's biggest concern is the impact on our one child that is still under 18. Otherwise, from looking at your earlier posts, you seem to be having a fine time.

[cheryl reeves]

michelle it sounds like your wife is being self centered and took down the two way street sign for a one way sign,with you being tossed to the curb. i agree though the TALK should have been done as a family,me and my wife told our son together..yes we are being selfish in our so's eyes when we take time for ourselves,but they aren't being selfish when they take time for themselves,never could understand this double standard and ive been married going on 27 yrs of marriage.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

Hi Michelle,

Setbacks like this are all too common. One of the toughest things to deal with in marriage is the notion that the other person is always supposed to be selfless. That attitude in itself is its own form of selfishness. The only solution is for both people to admit they have certain needs and to work together to find a way to satisfy them. Her concerns about what might happen to you while out and dressed are somewhat valid. If you've not considered contingencies it might be a good idea to develop some and share them with her. It might alleviate some of her anxieties. As far as your appearance being "disrespectful" you should do more research on make-up techniques that allow you to use less while still achieving the desired effect. An added benefit is a lighter touch can sometimes make you more passable.

Now, to help your mood you should still plan on going to the club meeting. Hopefully its far enough in the future your wife will have had time to calm down and be more receptive. The last thing you need right now is to feel isolated. And of course, keep coming here for support. We all have your back.

Bridget

[Nadine Spirit]

She did say that there is nothing wrong in principal with crossdressing , at home, with nobody around.

This right here is messed up. Clearly then she feels that yes there is something wrong with cross dressing, because you clearly need to hide it from everyone, including her.

I just caught part of the Jenner interview yesterday and in it they gave some statistics about how only a very small percentage of people actually know someone who is transgender and I yelled out at the TV "Yeah, because so many of us feel a need to hide or are outright told we HAVE to hide!" It really upset me.

And here we are, a direct example of someone being told to hide themselves away, because that is what would be best for everyone involved. I mean could you imagine what would happen if:

something happened to me if I was out in public

I know right!

Honestly to me, your wife sounds more than a bit ignorant about transgender issues and that she doesn't really care to be educated about them. How do you deal with that? The only thoughts I have is to attempt to educate her. How to do that? Through continual conversations about it. Yeah, I am sure that could be upsetting, but sometimes educations are painful. You mentioned:

Though she had said yes (reluctantly I guess) two months ago but weather stopped that from happening, this time it set of a bunch of fireworks.

I think that indicates a lack of communication during that time period. Kind of like, you asked her, got her permission, and then let things sit until you brought it up again two months later. Clearly during that time you had good thoughts and assumed good things and clearly she had good thoughts and assumed your little "problem" was going away. Thus when you two came back again and spoke again you two were in totally different places and it was quite bothersome that you two were not on the same page. How do you either get on the same page or at least remain aware of not being on the same page? Don't let it sit. Keep the conversations going. Especially when it is uncomfortable.

Sorry things are being so tough for you both. Good luck!

[Alex!]

Michelle,

As a single person, I cannot possibly relate to the issues that being a crossdresser introduces to a marriage. Many of my CD friends are married however, and what I've learned is that the situation is quite fluid, almost exhaustingly so - one day she seems supportive, while the next day not at all. As frustrating as that can be, I understand why a spouse would feel this way. I've spoken to wives about CD in general and their husbands specifically, and it seems common that there is a sense of betrayal for those who entered into a marriage without knowledge of the crossdressing, only to have it introduced after vows are exchanged. In other words, trust is the main issue. Then, of course, is the worry that the husband will "transition away" or that the alter ego is the "other woman." I can easily imagine how scary that is.

Anyway, I'm blathering on. I wish you and your family well during these difficult times. Know that there are folks to talk to!

[Kristy 56]

Michelle, I think that Alex is 100 %. I don't have any advice to give,but I do wish and hope that you and your wife work it out. Good luck !

[kaleyg]

so sorry, Michelle. I hope things resolve, and I hope your #3 is doing better.

[mechamoose]

I'm stuck on this bit:

The first thing she said was “I suppose I can’t stop you”

So it seems (to me) that it isn't about what you want, vs what she sees as the role/duty you are expected to play.

I'm sorry for that. I can do my 'fatherly' duties in a skirt & heels. I'm sorry that you are getting that kind of resistance, it isn't fair or reasonable.

I'm stuck on the idea of image vs duty, and I feel they don't have the slightest bit to do with each other.

<3

- MM

[Suzanne F]

Michelle
First of all no one among us has done this perfectly with our spouses. We have all made mistakes. This has been a 2 year process with my wife. I am TS and transitioning. However, it started with me telling her and thinking it would be enough to crossdress. We both made mistakes and we kept on trying to be there for each other. Yes there were arguments and hurt feelings. At times she was correct that I was being self centered. Other times she was being needlessly controlling.

Yet it is ok for today. I had to learn that as far as being authentic there is no compromise. Everything else can be discussed and compromises can be made. The timing of things can always be discussed. I had to learn that her approval is not necessary for me to be ok. That is an on going process. I am not saying I can disregard her feelings. I just have to realize that I have to give myself permission to explore and be the real me.

This is a process. Do not think that either of you will be in the same place with this forever. You can both grow! It can be the most wonderful and difficult journey a couple can make together. It takes courage to be that honest. One day at a time!
Hugs
Suzanne

[OCCarly]

I realize I am new here and all, and this is just my 2 cents, but I get the feeling that a lot of what is driving your wife has to do with what is going on with your #3 child. She is concerned, fearful, and worried, and she is lashing out, and you present a convenient and easy target. So now she wants to play the "How dare you have a good time while someone else is suffering?" card.

You need an outlet and she does, too.

But if she worries about what might happen if you are out dressed in public, consider this: I had a friend (who did not crossdress) but whose hobby was fast cars. Really fast cars. He owned a Lotus, two Ferraris, and the car that killed him: An Audi R8 V10, which he unintentionally drove into a grove of trees at 120 miles per hour very late one Friday night. There are hobbies far more dangerous than crossdressing. The simple fact is, acting masculine will get you killed a lot faster in a lot of places than acting feminine, which is why statistically women tend to live longer than men.

Maybe it is time to take your wife on a date or a romantic weekend, put the attention on her for a while, and then talk to her about things, and try to put things into perspective. Like I said, just my 2 cents.

[ReineD]

Michelle, if you reduce everything your wife said to the bottom line, it is that she fears two things:

1. The negative consequences of people finding out.
2. Your kids reacting negatively to the fact that their father wears women's clothes.

I know that dressing brings you joy and you do not want it to be curtailed. But, you also live in a family and their needs should be addressed as well.

On the subject of kids: when you were young, did you want others to know that you CDed? Why not. Things have not changed in this area, boys who are forming their male identities still feel mortified should their name be associated with sissiness, no matter how much they love their father, no matter how much they want to not care. And lots of girls have issues with this as well. So some of your kids may be feeling internal conflict and may be doing their best to bury it. They want to support you, but they may be ashamed of what you do.

As to the public, please do not be lulled into a false belief that the CDing is no big deal and that it is universally accepted as a harmless hobby, or as a part of someone's core identity even if it is part time, and therefore OK. This is not the reality of the world in which we live, no matter how many Bruce Jenners come out and no matter how supportive his family seems in front of the cameras.

So, what are you doing to address your wife's fears. I'm not saying you should stop dressing. You wife did say she does not object in principle to the CDing. I'm saying you should get down to the fundamentals with your wife and address her basic fears … the other stuff, numbers one and two above.

Last, a parent should not tell kids to keep a secret from the other parent. You have no idea the rift this can cause in families. It makes kids feel unsafe in the security of their parent's marriage, even if they do not have the words to articulate this. It weighs on them.

[Alex!]

ReineD - very well said. Your perception of how a boy is likely to interpret crossdressing is spot on. I was ashamed of it for much of my life precisely because I want to be virile; the idea of being described as a sissy was simply unacceptable. This concern as it applies to a couple's children is particularly astute.

[Marcelle]

Hi Michelle,

So sorry to hear about what has happened. Well, I guess this has been bubbling under the surface since you wife found you talked to your kids without her knowing and to be honest, I can understand her being upset with you. Now, I am not name calling or taking sides because to be honest, we can all do things on the spur of the moment and regret those decisions . . . so nobody should be throwing rocks at windows if they happen to live in a glass house .

I guess the question is what to do about it now? Your wife is upset that your children may tell others but I note the ages from your last post on this subject (girl 18, boy 17, boy 14 and girl 13). I am guessing the two older ones have a good handle on this and it is probably as wise COA for both you an your wife to sit with them and discuss your CDing. Ask them point blank if they have told others and then come to an agreement that this is something held in confidence until such time as you decide otherwise. The younger two are a bit of a wild card as kids are kids and may decide to tell friends but I truly believe another conversation with them (both you and wife) to discuss the issue would be warranted. You noted that #3 has some issues and is seeing a counselor for these issue. IMHO a frank discussion with his counselor on what was disclosed might be a wise COA so the counselor can delve a bit more on how this affected him (if at all) - we sometimes forget that children are quite resilient to things adults might find disconcerting.

WRT your wife's others concerns of something happing in public . . . my wife still has those concerns and my recent brush with haters did not help. Your wife has just vented on what is probably pent up frustration with your CDing and in some respect we have to accept that because it is foreign to some and can be a source of angst. Perhaps you may need to give it some time to boil over then approach this with her for a frank discussion. Lay all your cards on the table, discuss what is important to your and while she may say it sounds like it is all about you, ensure her she needs to know what it means to you so you can come to an accord so both of you can be happy.

The one truth I know is that this never goes away and while you may wish to suppress, hide, or curtail your dressing for the sake of your family (a very noble gesture), if you do not have an agreed upon outlet with your wife, it is likely to lead to bitterness, resentment and hostility which will most likely bleed out into your relationship in other ways. Communication is the only way forward now irrespective of how difficult it may seem.

Hugs

Isha

[Lorileah]

michelle it sounds like your wife is being self centered

Pot meet kettle. Really? Poster children for self centered calling OTHERS self centered? Funny how when the shoe is on the other foot, you say things like that. Maybe you read a different OP than I did...something about telling the kids...behind the wife's back. Nah...not self centered there. And double standard...you poor poor abused guys...why the wives just don't do ANYTHING except pamper themselves...

Grow up

[Michelle Deere]

I thank you all for your input. I am going to take some time to digest everything that has happened and what has been said.
I thought I had been doing a good job of always putting the needs of the family first, but for whatever reason, I jumped the gun with telling the kids. I assume full responsibility for that error. I also realize that we need to talk. Unfortunately, it has never been easy for me to express my feelings and this makes it more awkward to talk about cd'ing.
I very much appreciate your comments ReineD, thank you.

[Stephanie47]

In most marriages there is usually discussion between the spouses before undertaking important decisions. I'm sure as somebody has already pointed out, you and your wife shielded your kids from your cross dressing. So, now the kids are older and able to make there own judgments? Your wife has a very good point. Will the kids let this knowledge slip in the community? You don't know. It may be an inadvertent slip. Still, it may become common knowledge and your wife will also have to bear any of the consequences-not just you.

Your wife is entitled to change her mind concerning cross dressing, whether it be her husband or anyone else. Nothing in a marriage is static. Everything can be fluid. Sure, you may go to a meeting outside the home, and, potentially run into the same disclosure (car accident).

I suspect your wife is afraid to confront the elephant in the room. It's common to "kick the can down the road" waiting for some event to bring forth a confrontation.

This is something you and your wife need to resolve. If you need to see a professional, do go! Don't try to bait your wife with being on the pity pot. You can have your joy and express yourself, but, your wife has made her viewpoint clear.

[CONSUELO]

I would recommend that you consider having a big discussion with your wife BUT with the assistance and mediation of a good counsellor. There are a lot of hidden fears at play and you need to understand them.

[ReineD]

I very much appreciate your comments ReineD, thank you.

You're welcome and thank you. (I thought you would be upset over the things I said).

You and your wife likely want the same fundamental things: you both want your kids to be happy and neither of you wants negative consequences, whether this is people finding out at work and possibly threatening your job security or future advancement (I don't know your work environment), or people talking about you behind your backs, or friends suddenly distancing themselves or feeling awkward when they are with you, or the parents of your one of your daughter's friends finding out and prohibiting their daughter from sleeping over at your house, or your sons being afraid to bring their friends over in case you might be dressed, or being afraid one of their friends will find out, or whatever it might be.

So the secret to all of this is to help your wife understand that you DO want the same things that she does and that you are both fundamentally on the same page. She must come to believe this in her heart. When she gets to that point, the only remaining thing will be to put your heads together and find ways where you can express yourself safely, without threatening the things that you both care about and that your wife feels might be threatened. The solutions might have to be creative in the short term and there might need a lot of planning, but the more instances of safe outings you will have where your wife will see that the world will not have fallen around her feet, the easier it will keep getting in the future.

And you'll see ... in 5 - 7 years from now, when you will have gone out lots of times and your kids are no longer at home, things will be much, much easier.

Good luck!

[Teresa]

Michelle,
This all sounds so familiar ,one day everything is OK then the goal posts move for no apparent reason and you end up feeling no matter what you say is going to be twisted to make you feel bad .
I had this only yesterday over a mail order catalogue, I asked if she minded me looking and the reply was only if it's for me, not for yourself, husbands don't do that sort of thing ! Half an hour later she said that if I had Stephen Hawking's problem that would bring my antics to a halt ! ( We had just seen the film about his life !) I felt as if she thought I could turn my CDing on and off like a tap and it was just something I did to irritate and annoy her ! As usual the frosty silence descended the rest of the night, we did finally iron things out in the morning but I'm getting tired of this continually happening !

[sometimes_miss]

As a single person, I cannot possibly relate to the issues that being a crossdresser introduces to a marriage. Many of my CD friends are married however, and what I've learned is that the situation is quite fluid, almost exhaustingly so - one day she seems supportive, while the next day not at all.

I think that a lot of SO's have a problem with this. On one hand, they want to be accepting; indeed, it's only politically correct to accept what someone tells you, and comfort them with their problems. On the other hand, they have to deal with their real feelings and a sense of loss about this. For most, they've never even considered that their stable, strong man might be harboring female feelings, it throws their world view out of balance. Women traditionally rely on the men in their lives to be the anchor in the relationship; always there, protective, providing, never changing, the one constant. They on the other hand feel that they can always change their minds about anything, that's what they were told when they were growing up. So it's no surprise that women flip flop on the issue. So when you add that to the belief that they were deceived about who and what you are, you have a recipe for disaster a-brewing. I wish you luck getting this resolved, but plan for the worst.

[mechamoose]

ReineD...

2. Your kids reacting negatively to the fact that their father wears women's clothes.

<insert Eddie Izzard here>

YOU get to educate your kids on what is 'normal'. I did last Thanksgiving in a full-length skirt. Nobody including my Mom said a thing. I have 3 kids, two of them have children of their own, not ONE of them would have anything negative to say about me.

It is about IDENTITY. dammit.

It isn't about you being a good person. It isn't about you conforming to expectations. It isn't about "The kids".

It is about you being yourself and not being sorry for it.

- MM

But &%@$@$#

It isn't that 'their father wears women's clothes'. Their father wears PRETTY clothes. He just prefers being pretty to being butch. Is how strong a parent they are dependent on clothing? Really?

I'm 6'2", 270#, I'm a big, furry dude with thighs like tree trunks. I have done martial arts for more than 15 years. But I ROCK an A-Line skirt. My wife refers to me as her wife. It is (to me) more about self identity than acceptance. You gotta be YOU. If "they" don't get that, are YOU the deviant one?

You don't need THEIR acceptance, you need YOUR acceptance.

<3

- MM

[trisha kobichenko]

The Genie never goes back into the bottle. The only conversation is where do we go from here.
Hugs,
Trish

[Beverley Sims]

Michelle,
Maybe you did handle it the wrong way, but for now take it steady and tip toe through the tulips for a while.
I am confident with time things will improve.

[ReineD]

YOU get to educate your kids on what is 'normal'. I did last Thanksgiving in a full-length skirt. Nobody including my Mom said a thing. I have 3 kids, two of them have children of their own, not ONE of them would have anything negative to say about me.

I raised my kids the same way. My boys played with a doll house when they were 4-5 years old! I allowed no play guns in the house. They had as many gender-neutral toys as I could find! (science kits, building sets, Playmobil sets). I taught them acceptance of all people no matter the race, gender, sexual preference, educational attainment, economical advantage.

But then something happened. They went to high school and peer influence became more important to them than parental influence. This didn't last into their adult years, they are open minded adults now, but during high school and early college years, when they were defining their male identities, they wanted to conform to other boys' expectations of what a male should be. My sons did not want to be perceived by their friends as being sissy or gay, or associating with it in any way, even though privately they must have been OK with it (they are now).

Our kids have more than just us as their influence and Michelle's boys are at a sensitive age. Michelle just needs to get through the next few years with them, and then I'm sure as adults everything will fall into place again.

As to women's vs pretty clothes, I agree that women's clothes are pretty. We all do here. But Michelle's sons don't live in our world right now. To them, their dad wears women's clothes. Your kids are adult, MM. You cannot compare how adults take this to teenage boys (potentially). Also, I don't know Michelle's boys ... they may be the exception and are champions for transgender rights! But Michelle did mention that one boy has anxiety, dark thoughts, and cuts himself. This is why I said what I said. It would be good if Michelle could look into this son's soul with objectivity, to see what is really there vs. telling herself that everything is OK just based on what the kids say.