See, it wasn't just the analogy at the end though. Those things were the dominant force throughout your response. I'm not blaming you - expression is easier to talk about, and a convenient crutch.
crutch perhaps, convenient truth as i have some feminine traits.
That's totally fair, and it's a big part of the reason why it's so hard to have conversations specifically about gender
identities, and especially ones that we don't already understand well. It's hard to talk about things that are (to a significant degree) innate. In contrast, gender
expression is
incredibly easy to talk about.
thank you for asking this....ive had some truth about recent events make sense from thinking about this.
It's not all about the innate stuff though. Experience is a significant part of our gender identities. It's interesting that you mentioned judging other people, because
being judged has been a big part of my experience thus far of being a woman, and one that I share with almost all of my female friends. I am judged for everything. If i'm not smiling, men I pass on the street tell me to smile. If I go to work without or with minimal makeup, people ask me if I'm feeling okay, or tell me I need to take care of myself. If I go to work with too much makeup on, people ask me who I'm trying to impress. If I wear natural makeup, nobody pays much attention to me at all. If I sit quietly and listen to what a man has to say then I'm being too passive and need to speak up. If I actually speak my mind declaratively/firmly, then I'm told to settle down. The only way I can
routinely get away with suggesting something contentious is with 4 qualifiers and an "...I mean, maybe? What do you think?" attached.
so please know that i was not judging them as women, i was judging theyre outfits which i think i can say with some degree of confidence women do this to other women.
these other points of judgment you make to me can be said to me when interacting with folks also, well all with the exception of makeup in daily life. so i dont think it is something that only a women can feel. men can judge but they are also judged, by men and by women, so all can be made to feel insecure.
Almost all of that comes from men. In my experience, most women who judge other women in those ways do so reflexively after a lifetime of being judged, sometimes to try and roll with or impress the men. All of my really close friends are women, and I've come to love them even more in the last two years because our friendship is a safe zone where there's no judgment.
jelous as im lacking in friends, male or female, knowledge of my dressing when in my youth seems to catch up to me and hamper my ability to retain real friendships.
It doesn't matter whether men are wearing dresses or not; it's the same. I had a number of experiences where CDs actually told me I was "bad at being a woman" for wearing anything more practical/comfortable than a formal gown and 5" heels to an event, never mind the fact that all the GGs were dressed just like me. I can look "beautiful" in a fantastic dress and painful shoes, but I am always my most
radiant when I'm sitting in the Napa sun with sunglasses, comfy jeans, and a loose shirt on laughing wholeheartedly over a glass of wine with my friends.
there was a thread here awhile ago about you know your a women, or something like this, my response was when you can put on a pair of jeans and tee shirt with your hair up and rock the look, most who water in the MtF section will never be able to, but my point was most of the answers were about your qualifiers, things.
Most people who are not living their lives as women (and being seen as such) do not get to have those experiences, both for better and for worse. So, unfortunately that leaves us with trying to talk about the hardest thing - innate identity, and what it means to be a women in a world where experience isn't necessarily a part of it and primary/secondary sex characteristics aren't the primary determining factor.
which is why i think it was so hard for me to put it to words. i felt the pressure and felt you asked me as a man, not as an equal, not as a women and my default was to respond as a man instead of a women.
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In the absence of experience and genitals as a basis, my identity as a woman is largely driven by two things.
- A deep discomfort with the idea being a man
- My sense of empathy and the ways in which I connect with myself and others
To me, when men talk,
especially with other men, it all seems so... simple. Because of A, it's B. Because B, it's C. Therefore, D. Linear thinking. I can understand them, but it's always been difficult to relate to them in a way that makes me feel like I'm really being understood.
for me when talking with men and i show my vulnerable side, my compassion, or empathy it is received as weakness in my character and thus i will feel less comfortable as part of the conversation....thus my preference to be on the ladies side of the room
I won't speak for other women, but I feel like my thoughts are distinctly less linear and fuzzier than most men I know, at least as far as I can tell. I'm almost never processing one stream of thought, and when I try, it's often interleaved with other related things. My world is connections. Connections between me and others, connections between experiences, and connections between thoughts. With respect to thoughts...
is it just fuzzier just than men you know, or is it different from the person you were before also, im curious....
My mind feels like an infinite web of emotional connections between things. It's never, "something bad happened today, and that sucks. Moving on." Very occasionally, it used to be, but estrogen cleared the last of that right up.
you have me at a disadvantage with this as i have no context to compare my before self to my after self from the chemical balance side of things.
It's, "something bad happened, and my mom is having such a hard time lately, and oh god why did my manager make that comment today, and maybe
I just wasn't interesting enough to make that really boring guy be less boring, and what if it's really my fault that my mom is struggling, maybe I should've done more, ugh, I'm so done with this week, but I have to clean because that other guy is coming to my party tomorrow, wow I'm really tired, and all I want is a burrito but I'm on this diet, and god what do I even think about that guy, and do I have to worry about my job because of what my manager said, and I mean, that guy's cute but, ugh why is my mom in my head so much today, and OH SHIT I'm supposed to bring a cake to my FRIEND'S party tomorrow, and ugh maybe I should just go for it because I really like that guy and I'd rather try, and ugh, was my day really that bad, I mean my mom's having such a hard time, why should I get to feel so bad... <DEEP BREATH> I'm going to take a bath and read a book so I can avoid thinking for a bit".
in one of my earlier responses i mentioned my overthinking things, what you described here makes perfect sense to me, but i can still be a linear thinker also also.
I would struggle to explain how, but when I'm with other women (cis or trans), I feel very at ease - we are speaking the same language.
this is something i really connected with, earlier when i spoke of my interaction at the support events and wig salon the conversations may have been about things but what i was really trying to convey was how i felt at ease and accepted as a peer, casual and comfortable, this example revolves around my wig but is not about the wig, i had dropped it off to have it reconditioned, when i came back to pick it up all the conversation and responses were organic, natural, thats a beautiful wig from one customer, the owner held it up high to show me just like i was one of the girls, i did not show my normal sighs of shame like i would in the past, i felt accepted.