JC Penny's would not let me use the fitting room

[Butterfly Bill]

I just take things over to the mens.

So do I. In most places in the USA there is nudity taboo. Most all people don't want people of the opposite sex to see them undressed. There is the chance you might if you are in the dressing room area. It has nothing to do with acceptance or not of CD or TG. They haven't been to Hippie Hollow or the Rainbow Gathering or the pagan campout or the naturist resort.

[Robertacd]

Sorry to seemingly abandon this thread I started but...

I could understand if the store was busy, or if there was even one other customer in the lingeire department. But there was nobody in the room, and by the way it is just one room, not a long hall with several fitting rooms that have only a flimsy curtain covering their openings. I am in a small town and many of our national chain stores seem to be scaled down in size, selection and aparently service.

[noname]

Womens sleeping bags are usually shorter in length and have a bit wider girth at the hip. Because they are a bit smaller, they usually contain less fill as well as covering and therefore are a bit cheaper. The design has nothing to do with the sleeping patterns of females. Some salespeople will say anything.

In this particular case, I was back country camping, and weight is everything. I didn't need an extra pound and a half and 2 feet more sleeping bag. I didn't notice it any bit wider in the hips, it was a mummy bag rated for down to 34 degrees. Worked perfect for me. So much for their eye rolling, I thought they were the weirdos.

Back on topic,

I would never use the womens changing room ever. I would like to ad, have any of you gg ever thought the women in the changing rooms might be lesbian? I guess it goes back to the idea that all guys are perverts. So let me ask, why do they let women in the mens changing area? What stores give you that level of service to get a different size for you? I've never had that. Like you mentioned it's a pain to get totally dressed, and go get the same item a different size.

[SherryLynn GG]

To Sherrie and Vanya, I worked the floor as an SA for both Lerners (now New York & Co) and the Limited. Most of the time at Lerners, I worked the fitting room alcove. What would you do when opening the door if the SA was a dude? I had all things happen when working. I had women call to me and then hand an item over the door for a change of size or color. This was the norm. I actually had women come out of the individual room in bra and pantys right in front of me. I think they were trying to get a reaction. My way of dealing with it was to be cool and continue about my business as if nothing had happened.

Jodi

I agree with Vanya on this one too, if I already knew it was a guy then I would be prepared...furthermore he was talking about a lingerie dept....how many men work in that dept of a store??? ive never saw a single man in any store ive ever been in working in the lingerie dept or even the womens clothing dept for that matter....maybe stores where you are have otherwise but not around here...and again if I already knew there was a man outside the door then I wouldnt open it, but if you think its only women and you open the door to find a man that would be the problem

[tekla west]

That was then, this is now. Some opinions are of the past. Some ideas are the future. That song used to go like that, now it goes like this.

The line is easy, firm and simple to agree upon. Those places that have argued it, written it, and adjudicated it have found a clear and easy standard in “presentation.” If you look like a girl, go with the girls. If you present as a boy, go with the boys.

No DNA nonsense.

No pull you pants down for a wee-wee check.

That is the direction of the spirit and the letter of the law, whatever you present as, that you be. Kind of a nice zen standard, like ‘wherever you go, there you are.’ Who gets to be a boy, who gets to be a girl??? Whoever states that they are. So easy, so simple. If it walks like a duck, and dresses like a duck, and behaves like a duck, then lets assume its a duck already.

In no small way we have the FtM community to thank for that. As long as our sisters were running off to have SRS all over the place the law could hold to the genitalia test. Its was the FtM (where the SRS surgery is much harder, and much less - shall we say - convincing that raised an uproar over this and forced a change in the language of the statues, ordinances and laws.

It is I think - and why I involve myself in the fight - the most basic aspect of a free society. You are what you think you are. Are you deluded? Sure, could be, so what? You are what you say you are? Is that true like in Veritas? Doubtful, but according to Plato, who actually used veritas in day to day speech, nothing really is. Why not take the simple, yet radical step, of letting people identify as they wish? I doubt that the earth will spin off its axis and go careening through the universe. I doubt that outside of a relatively few (on the grand scale of things) lives, that much would change at all. Where it has been implemented, and we have places enlightened enough that these laws, ordinances and statues have been in place now for over ten years or more. They have been reviewed, altered, adjudicated. And guess what? Nothing really changed, except to give freedom to people who sought it.

This is the standard to which modern, rational, liberal Western societies are leaning.

So that......If he was in DRAB, he should have sought out the male side, if in fem, then the clerk was wrong. Of course, Penny’s is wrong too. Most out of date merchandizing I’ve ever seen. Like its so last century, so yucck, god willing they will soon go the way of Montgomery Wards and they will not bother you anymore.

And I’ve seen plenty of GGs in men’s dressing rooms over the years. They don’t seem to have a problem with it, neither do I. Vintage/Thrift stores - and other smaller ones - tend to only have one or two dressing rooms (if that, one place I go has a sheet hanging down from a rod and that’s it). Whoever is next in line, is next.

I don’t even have a problem (or thrill) with unisex bathrooms. I use one frequently. Everyone is in there. Everyone does what they came into do. Everyone leaves. Of course, we are grown-ups, big boys and big girls living in the big city at the vortex of the modern world - so potty stuff does not excite us. Hence, there is nothing to worry about. No mature adult should have any problem with any of this at all.


P.S.
Those hygiene standards - gross and tacky and very icky in terms of being brought into the debate (where they are not a factor at all) are about the lower naughty bits. Those naughty bits that on some GGs, that are serious disease vectors for the worst infections mankind has. Syphilis, HIV/AIDS and all the bad things. Needless to say, if you ain’t doin anything abnormal with your boobies, they are clean. Its stupid, and condescending to all reading, to imply that somehow women try on bras with another bra underneath. You don’t really expect me to belive that do you?

[gwenrob43]

Don't expect much. It took two letters and three phone calls to remove myself from one of their insurance rolls. Then they tried to bill me for late fees of $30 /month for 3 months for a $10 premium I missed after I removed myself from their insurance plan. In other words, they tried to collect after I quite and charge me late fees to boot. They finally understood when I cut up both my wife's and my credit cards and mailed them a very blunt letter addressed to the customer relations department.

Gwen

[Barb Valentine]

I guess that she didn't care at all but it's not her store
It should be interning to see what the head office have to say

[kathy gg]

Iught they were the weirdos.

Back on topic,

I would never use the womens changing room ever. I would like to ad, have any of you gg ever thought the women in the changing rooms might be lesbian? I guess it goes back to the idea that all guys are perverts. So let me ask, why do they let women in the mens changing area? What stores give you that level of service to get a different size for you? I've never had that. Like you mentioned it's a pain to get totally dressed, and go get the same item a different size.

I want to clarify my post. I *personally* do not have a problem with tg/cd/tv/ts mtf using a females change area is they are dressed as female.

I run a shopping service up here in Toronto and back when I started it I did dozens of phone calls to various popular stores to see what their policies were. Most stores that large with multiple sections say go into the change area which fits how you are presenting yourself. For the clients I had who are dressed in male mode, they asked that the client use either a single door {not the kind with multipel rooms} change area or the mens area for trying on clothing. In stores where there is jsut women's clothing most stores either cleared out the area so my client coudl change or offered a restroom or storage room to use. Espically those which had the flimsy curtains and such. Many stores even have handi-cap accesible change area's and those are also offered in the case of being in male mode in a womens store.

So, as for this *lesbian* question, well I hate to say this but of all the sexual offenses that happen, lesbians attacking or peeping on women either dont' get reported in the news.....or they don't happen often. Where as police finding men in ladies restrooms with video cams or phone cams with the sole intent of getting photos or worse does get reported and does happen. There are dozens of net sites called "up-skirting" that do jsut that.

So I am not saying all men are perverts or all cd's are perverts. Let me make that very cyrstal clear.

But what we have as a KNOWN statistic is that on average men seem to do more raping/sexually assualting then females do. That is a fact. And spaces where women are in vulnerable positions {washrooms/change areas} are going to make us more nervous ...espically when we see a guy in them when we are not expecting to see a guy in there. As I said, I have enough knowledge to know if I see a tg person in my change area or in the washroom that I know they are there to do what I am doing, and nothing more. But to see a man...preseting as a man... in a woman's only area, well it is gonna make us nervous. Sorry that is just a fact of life.

Now, about having an SA come to the area and give us and bring us different sizes....I think that is extremely common. I have lived in Colorado, Texas, and now Canada and many stores have attentive sales staff willing to bring you different sizes/styles/colors. Unless the store is super busy or you go on a peak time then it might not happen. But I find it happens alot for me. Even more so when I have our daughter with us.

Anyway.... in conclusion I think JC Penny's handled the situation wrong and the sales clerk was either new or ignorant or even possibly trans/homophobic. It was her responsiblity to provide *someplace* for the poster to change. And she did not so that sucks.

[GG Vanya]

Back on topic,

I would never use the womens changing room ever. I would like to ad, have any of you gg ever thought the women in the changing rooms might be lesbian? I guess it goes back to the idea that all guys are perverts. So let me ask, why do they let women in the mens changing area? What stores give you that level of service to get a different size for you? I've never had that. Like you mentioned it's a pain to get totally dressed, and go get the same item a different size.

Of course it happens, and not always when requested. Someone posted here a few days ago about it, and even gave a name for it: "feeding the fitting room".

P.S.
Those hygiene standards - gross and tacky and very icky in terms of being brought into the debate (where they are not a factor at all) are about the lower naughty bits. Those naughty bits that on some GGs, that are serious disease vectors for the worst infections mankind has. Syphilis, HIV/AIDS and all the bad things. Needless to say, if you ain’t doin anything abnormal with your boobies, they are clean. Its stupid, and condescending to all reading, to imply that somehow women try on bras with another bra underneath. You don’t really expect me to belive that do you?

I'm the one that made the post about hygiene standards, and I made it specifically in response to this post by Rachel:

if i was in drab i wouldnt expect to be allowed in the LADIES lingerie changing room - and if i really wanted to try a bra on i would expect to goto the mens,

BUT if i was en femme - i would be upset if they didnt let me use it....


either way - i wouldnt try lingerie on in a store - i buy it - take it home, if i dont like it - take it back

much easier - and avoids any issues....

I stated the US laws simply to clear up any confusion about taking lingerie (in general) home and then returning it in the US.

Be they tacky, icky, and gross, these problems DO exist, and were the basis for the laws.

And, for the record, I think these icky problems exist for males too. I for one, would not want to buy panties that some strange guy had tried one. LOL, especially in light of the "thrill" so many express here when trying them on.

[serinalynn]

The bra dept of our JCPenny's store, the lady wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. I never said if it was for me or for my wife. I could have been asking to buy a gift. But NO, she hung up on me. I vote with my dollar$. And Lane Bryant gets my vote and my dollar$. They knew I used to get 38C and the other day I asked for a 42B, she asked if I wanted to be measured? Now that's service.
Oh, the lady in the unmentionables dept at Sears, wanted to know why I was playing with the bras. I had 2 on hangers, hung on my finger and was looking at another. I handed her all 3 and walked out. But I did tell her, I was looking for new bras for my wife. We have been married for 21 years, buying pads and tampons doesn't bother me, so why would buying bras be such a big thing. Maybe she just couldn't cope???BJ

I buy all my bras and tops at Lane Bryant and the SA's always ask if i want to try something on. Knowing all of the SA's at Lane Bryant helps too. I only wear Cacique bras from the Lane Bryant stores The only place i ever had a peoblem with a fitting room was at a catherines store, where the fitting room resembles a highschool girls locker room for gym class. I have mentioned to the Catherines surveys that I have done that The fitting room needs to be upgraded to allow crossdressers the opertunity to try something on in th e store.
www.lanebryant.com
www.catherines.com

[Janelle Young]

I used to work in Retail and was a manager of drug stores for about six years for two different companies. At both of them the corporate line was always the customer is always right. My boss, the district manager, and his/her boss the area manager did not want to see a negative letter, ever.


If you have a problem in any store my advice is to go to the top, ask to speak with who is ever in charge of the store at that particular time. Calmly explain the problem and then stop talking. For me as the person in charge I would always ask what was it that I could do to fix the problem. In 90 % of the problems, I was willing to give more away to the customer than what the customer wanted. If the person in charge does not ask you what you would like to make you happy, suggest what will make you happy. If they can not make you happy be sure to get that persons name and send a written letter to the company with as many details as you can provide. Negative letters get read, it takes some time but they tend to get passed up the chain of command, it is best to send them as high as you can find from the start though, the trickle down approach works best. In any event if you are not satisfied with any level of service in a retail environment, write a letter. Let them know that you are unhappy. The squeaky wheel does get the grease.

[Avsblues19]

This is what scares me. I am 22 and have never shopped for women's clothing in person. I know since I am fairly young that a SA would think I was just playing around or doing something else juvenile. Many of you have the excuse of telling the SA that you are shopping for your wife; I don't have that luxury .

Do you think Lane Bryant would help me eventhough I am fairly young? Or should I just wait until I get older?

[tekla west]

at 22 lots of men are married. How is she going to know? You could just say it, like is the SA going to say let me see your papers? LB has been willing to help us, no matter the age as long as you are not a minor. If it were not for CDs LB's sales would be much less, and they know it.

[nibel]

This is what scares me. I am 22 and have never shopped for women's clothing in person. I know since I am fairly young that a SA would think I was just playing around or doing something else juvenile. Many of you have the excuse of telling the SA that you are shopping for your wife; I don't have that luxury .

Do you think Lane Bryant would help me eventhough I am fairly young? Or should I just wait until I get older?

I'm 23 and I'm in the same situation as you. The best options out there are internet and supermarkets... big places in big cities where nobody talks to you are a must. And also, don't try to proove it... learn by image your size and just buy and take it home. It's best to loose a few bucks than create an awkward situation.

[HaleyPink2000]

My 2 cents! Good thred. Very entertaining.0.02
LOLOL
Still laffffinnnn I can see it in the comic strips now. A dressing room setting.

[Bridget]

This is what scares me. I am 22 and have never shopped for women's clothing in person. I know since I am fairly young that a SA would think I was just playing around or doing something else juvenile. Many of you have the excuse of telling the SA that you are shopping for your wife; I don't have that luxury .

Do you think Lane Bryant would help me eventhough I am fairly young? Or should I just wait until I get older?

In all my shopping experiences, I have never ever been asked if something was for myself. Ever single time, when the clerk says anything, they assume I'm buying something for my girlfriend. And even when it's not something that can be explained away, the store clerks have always been respectful.

[trannie T]

I e-mailed JC Penney asking about their policy and mentioned this thread. They replied that there is no company policy regarding this, it is left up to the sales associate, if the sales associate feels uncomfortable then you may be excluded from a fitting room. This does not seem like the most enlightened policy, lets encourage Penneys to be a bit more crossdresser friendly.

[Stephacuse]

I e-mailed JC Penney asking about their policy and mentioned this thread. They replied that there is no company policy regarding this, it is left up to the sales associate, if the sales associate feels uncomfortable then you may be excluded from a fitting room. This does not seem like the most enlightened policy, lets encourage Penneys to be a bit more crossdresser friendly.

why? if they dont want our money why should we give it to them? We can find similar or better items elsewhere.

[ava_bruna]

why? if they dont want our money why should we give it to them? We can find similar or better items elsewhere.

This is so true, Yes I have alot of their thing's because they caught my eye but so does other's like Sear's ect. So maybe we should write a letter to the main office and inform them just how many C Der's but from them and will no longer unless they change and become more C D friendly. We could all sign it and boy, bet they will be surprised just how many of us there are NO? anything wrong in doing this? We could let all the other C D group's ect join in on the siging.

[sharifemme]

"You're not allowed to use them".

A friend of mine had a similar problem at a Sears store, wrote the corporate office and ended up with apologies from Corporate and the store manager.

Sharifemme

[Kristen Kelly]

I'm a changing room chicken! I have used the changing room at my fav thrift store a couple of times since that is unisex. Then a really agressive yet nice sales lady at Lane Bryant all but made me use their dressing room.

She was very cool I wrote here about it a while back...but she was so hip to what was going on that she even made sure I did not have to talk at the cash register. Which was a relief considering that all of a sudden a lady with like three kids came to the register at the same time.

That all being said I have developed a 'sixth sense' for what fits me...I have little trick like holding my arm againist an item and knowing about where it should line up to fit. So I skip all that...I can blend in fairly good enfemme...but the gig is up if I have to interact very much with my DEEP male voice.

But I am indeed sorry you had such an experience, thats why I am such a chicken to avoid that!

[SIZE="3"] Deidra like you I have had very good dealings with Lane Bryant in the past, their salespeople went out of their way to make a sale, making a changing room avaliable, even getting a top in a different size and style they thought I might like, brought both. Like you I don't care to try things on in drab often, but I do take things that are on clearance and could not be returned to the men's fitting room if I have any doubt they might not fit.

Reciently shopping at Macy's in drab (almost was wearing womens jeans and panties), found 2 pair of jeans maked down to $7.99 from $40 and a top marked down to $5.99. I have lost alot of weight and was unsure if I would fit into them, for they were a size 10. I took them 1 floor up to the men's changing room, they fit, I returned to dept to replace the things I tried on I didnt care for or didn't fit, and went to pay for them. There was a line at the check out counter waiting I chit chatted with the women, got to the register the woman rang up my purchases and said, "Your wife or girlfriend will be VERY happly to have these bargains," for which I replied, "She better not try". She looked at me and there was a moment of silence then just giggled.

I say to anyone the more you do anything the more it seems "normal" to do , I enjoy shopping(I have the shopping gene) I look on the internet but would rather shop in the stores.[/SIZE]