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Thread: Risking annoyance

  1. #1
    Member Elizabeth Ann's Avatar
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    Risking annoyance

    You all have been very patient with me, and I truly do appreciate that. I am the crossdressing parent of a recently announced transexual son. I have been trying to be supportive (she is 22, what choice do I have), but my own worries and doubts keep getting in the way.

    Can I beg your indulgence one more time? Help me understand if this material is within the TS experience, when I keep feeling like I am letting my child make a mistake.

    In a recent conversation I was relating to her some of the things I have learned from this forum. It turns out that she has also been participating in a forum on Reddit. This is a very general forum with a transgender section. I think it is mainly oriented toward younger persons. (One current thread is titled "How old is too old for HRT?" and was started by a 22 year old!) So I went to Reddit to read her writings. Aside from disturbingly frequent entries about marijuana, her first transgender post was 5 months ago. Could you please take a look at it:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgend...call_for_help/

    It just does not seem to fit the experiences or burning desires I read about here. I should note for you that although she says "I'm not trans." here, she says that she came to that realization a month or so later.

    I have more to say, but I should just let you read her own words. And as always, if I have my head up my a**, just tell me. This is too important to me to worry about a few bruises.

    Liz

  2. #2
    Aspiring Member Kristy_K's Avatar
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    It sounds to me Elizabeth that she is just as confuse as the rest of us are about who or what we are. I would not have even consider me being TS 8 months ago. Then I accepted it and ran with it. As you have seen on this form that we are all different. Plus something to consider is her age compare to ours. With a age difference comes the way we think about things and how they will affect us. What things means to us doesn't always mean the same to younger people.

    Enjoy your new daughter and just try to be a part of her new life.

    Kristy

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    Here's my 2 cents worth. One may look to forums such as these to exchange ideas and options, engage in discussion with others who have common expereinces or issues. But, that's all. Although I felt a bit awkward invading your child's privacy by reading this post, I would suggest that there is a high degree of internal inconsistency in what she's saying. These internal consistencies need to be resolved by working with a qualified gender therapist.

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    I said I'm not trans at one point too.

    Through the process of breaking out of years of suppression, and being exposed to who you really are is a very confusing and scary process.

    You can't take something she said when she was scared and confused and assume she meant, or even knew what she was talking about.

    Your head might be a little up there, but that's because you really have no idea what she is going through. You can't understand it because you haven't lived with it. This kind of stuff happens all the time from family or friends that don't understand and are scared of someone saying they're transsexual. They look to their past and try to find every clue that would prove they're not trans.

    Instead of playing history detective, try listening to what she has to say now.

    And also, she's 22 years old. Show a little respect... if you want to know what's going on with her, talk to her. Don't go digging through her life behind her back.
    Last edited by Bree-asaurus; 03-27-2012 at 11:44 AM.

  5. #5
    Member Elizabeth Ann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimdl93 View Post
    Here's my 2 cents worth. One may look to forums such as these to exchange ideas and options, engage in discussion with others who have common expereinces or issues. But, that's all. Although I felt a bit awkward invading your child's privacy by reading this post, I would suggest that there is a high degree of internal inconsistency in what she's saying. These internal consistencies need to be resolved by working with a qualified gender therapist.
    I should have mentioned that she is okay with others reading her material on a public forum (her mother wishes she wasn't). She has had some contact with therapists, but is not currently seeing one because, she states, she knows what she wants.

    Liz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Ann View Post
    I should have mentioned that she is okay with others reading her material on a public forum (her mother wishes she wasn't). She has had some contact with therapists, but is not currently seeing one because, she states, she knows what she wants.

    Liz
    Okay, well ignore my comment on the respect part I guess lol! Most people would be bothered by that but I guess you're in the clear :P

    Well if she can talk to her therapists and get sign-off on her being trans, that would help. Because if she is who she thinks she is, a decent, educated therapist should see this and then be able to write letters of recommendation for her. If she is still confused, a decent, educated therapist should see this as well, and maybe help her realize this.

    But the key is... the therapist needs to have some good experience with transgender individuals, gender identity and gender dysphoria.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Ann View Post
    Help me understand if this material is within the TS experience, when I keep feeling like I am letting my child make a mistake.
    To be perfectly honest, I don't see the same significance in the post that you evidently do. It's brief and rather introductory - thematic but neither detailed nor emotional. It's just the sort of thing you might say to someone before you are ready to bare your soul.

    The phrase I keep coming back to is "letting my child make a mistake". I know this is hard stuff to see happen, Liz, but 22 isn't a child anymore and you aren't in control. The damage that could ensue from you trying to assert control or even heavy influence could linger for years and extend beyond your relationship with Davin.

    Lea
    Lea

  8. #8
    Member Elizabeth Ann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bree_K View Post
    I said I'm not trans at one point too.

    Through the process of breaking out of years of suppression, and being exposed to who you really are is a very confusing and scary process.

    You can't take something she said when she was scared and confused and assume she meant, or even knew what she was talking about.

    Your head might be a little up there, but that's because you really have no idea what she is going through. You can't understand it because you haven't lived with it. This kind of stuff happens all the time from family or friends that don't understand and are scared of someone saying they're transsexual. They look to their past and try to find every clue that would prove they're not trans.

    Instead of playing history detective, try listening to what she has to say now.

    And also, she's 22 years old. Show a little respect... if you want to know what's going on with her, talk to her. Don't go digging through her life behind her back.
    Bree,

    Thanks. This is really not behind her back, but I get your point. I have always felt she has a good head on her shoulders, and I need to keep reminding myself of that. I do know that my vantage point is different, and I can't know exactly what is going on inside her head.

    I guess her mother and I are just a little in a panic because she has already found an endocrinologist in Baltimore who has written prescriptions for her to start HRT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lea Paine View Post
    The phrase I keep coming back to is "letting my child make a mistake". I know this is hard stuff to see happen, Liz, but 22 isn't a child anymore and you aren't in control. The damage that could ensue from you trying to assert control or even heavy influence could linger for years and extend beyond your relationship with Davin.
    BINGO

    Whatever she does is not your decision to make. I'm not saying you shouldn't control her... you CAN'T control her. She is her own person and is going to do what she needs to do.

    If she is transsexual, then the mistake would be to not transition.

    I could have made a mistake a couple years ago and splattered my brains on the highway in an attempt to end the suffering. I DIDN'T make that mistake... I made the right choice and I'm happier now than ever... even with the struggles of being transsexual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Ann View Post
    I guess her mother and I are just a little in a panic because she has already found an endocrinologist in Baltimore who has written prescriptions for her to start HRT.
    Exactly... YOU are afraid. And YOU need to learn how to deal with it.

    If she was prescribed hormones, chances are the doc thought she needed them. And if she starts HRT and it isn't what she needs, she will know it. Plenty of non-transsexuals have tried HRT and didn't like how it made them feel... and they stopped with no harm done, but a little more insight into who they really are.

    Starting down this path isn't the end. She can always change her mind and be okay. What you're worried about is that she may indeed be transsexual and you are afraid for her. But you can't do anything about that.
    Last edited by Bree-asaurus; 03-27-2012 at 12:06 PM.

  10. #10
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    I once told a panel of 15 psychologists that I was not trans and did not want to become a woman. It's her journey. Therapy is all about peeling off the layers and getting to the truth. We lie to ourselves a lot. That said, I don't like the "letting my child make a mistake" talk. Her identity cannot be debated or argued. You can, however, encourage her to go through the therapeutic process to get to the truth, whatever it is. If you don't like the idea of having your child transition, remember that most trans people do not want to transition either. Is just has to be done.
    Last edited by Frances; 03-27-2012 at 12:24 PM.
    It's Frances with an E, like Frances Farmer. Francis is a man's name.

  11. #11
    The Girl Next Door Sally24's Avatar
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    Liz,
    Even though she says at the outset that she's not trans., the rest of the intro seems to say just the opposite. I think what she has discovered about herself is what many of us have come to after 20 or 30 more years of living. She doesn't have the stereotypical "woman in a man's body" mindset but many of us don't. I don't personally hate my male body but if I could change it alot more feminine I probably would. And among your concerns, HRT doesn't make irreversable changes for awhile. I would have to say, take deep breaths and try to be as supportive as possible. She may or may not find HRT helpful. Give her time to find what makes her feel joyful.
    Sally

  12. #12
    Senior Member KellyJameson's Avatar
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    Hi Liz

    Your words touched me and the love for your child is evident.

    The words written by your child could have been my own. When I read them I could see my own hand writing them. This is what I call the experience of a body holding feminine energies. I personally experience it as sensitivity, hyper-empathy ( the female version of autism) and I also test out on the Myers-Briggsas INFJ. This can be a wonderful way to live but it has many dangers because you stand contrary to the way the majority of people experience the world.

    The greatest problem for me has been in the area of sexual relations because it has caused great conflict within my own mind and hurt others emotionally because I could not form attachments to them as well as slowing my own emotional growth that would have come from loving relations with others.

    Moving slowly but guilt free in the discovery of ones sexual identity is the greatest challenge in my opinion. This energy makes it feel natural to physically open yourself as a woman does to others but it runs contrary to the male form. The male penetrates the female and it becomes very confusing to try and do both acts simultanously.

    The guestion I would ask of your child is if he wants to keep the ability to penetrate another with his penis. The answer will indicate what energy is dominant. To enter another, to be entered or to be able to do both are all symbolic acts of our deeper energies and indicate our true psychological selves.

    If my words have any value or I can be of help in anyway please do not hesitate to P.M me.

    The love for a child is the gift we give to the world so please do not think you have your head up your a... and you certainly are not an annoyance. Kelly

    P.S.
    Elaine Arons book on highly sensitive people has helped me learn to manage my own extreme sensitivity and helped make me feel like less of a freak.

  13. #13
    Member Elizabeth Ann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lea Paine View Post
    To be perfectly honest, I don't see the same significance in the post that you evidently do. It's brief and rather introductory - thematic but neither detailed nor emotional. It's just the sort of thing you might say to someone before you are ready to bare your soul.

    The phrase I keep coming back to is "letting my child make a mistake". I know this is hard stuff to see happen, Liz, but 22 isn't a child anymore and you aren't in control. The damage that could ensue from you trying to assert control or even heavy influence could linger for years and extend beyond your relationship with Davin.

    Lea
    Lea, and others,

    Thanks for both points. Perhaps I am reading too much into it. She has always been a bit fearless in what she writes.

    My own therapist has also warned that this is not my decision to make. It does hurt that some barriers between us seem to have already gone up, and I have to work on a rapprochement. It is just that it is like our child saying, "watch me leap the Grand Canyon on this motorcycle." She may be able to do it, but it is hard to smile and say good luck.

    Liz
    Last edited by Elizabeth Ann; 03-27-2012 at 12:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Ann View Post
    It is just that it is like our child saying, "watch me leap the Grand Canyon on this motorcycle." She may be able to do it, but it is hard to smile and say good luck.
    It's been done before... you just have to be a daredevil. And like I said before, this isn't something any of us would wish on anyone... but if she is transsexual, transitioning is the SAFER alternative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Ann View Post
    I should have mentioned that she is okay with others reading her material on a public forum

    Liz
    Does she know you posted a link to her posts for discussion here?

  16. #16
    Member Elizabeth Ann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arbon View Post
    Does she know you posted a link to her posts for discussion here?
    She knows that I have discussed her extensively on this forum, and I have related to her some of the responses to her earlier writings without any objection from her. When she told me about Reddit, I don't think I specifically asked about posting a link. It is a publicly available, non protected forum for all to read, and I know that she believes, as I do, in the widest possible freedom of both speech and information. But I will ask her specifically about a link. Is a link materially different from relating her words?

    Liz

  17. #17
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    I think that you should be there for her and quit questioning her decisions. If she is as level headed as you say, she will do fine. Since the beginning of your threads about your new daughter, I get the impression that with all good parental intent, that you are trying to control and influence her too much. Let her live her life, love her, accept her as she is, support her where you can financially, and try to not interfere with her life decisions unless she comes to you for input. Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Ann View Post
    She knows that I have discussed her extensively on this forum, and I have related to her some of the responses to her earlier writings without any objection from her. When she told me about Reddit, I don't think I specifically asked about posting a link. It is a publicly available, non protected forum for all to read, and I know that she believes, as I do, in the widest possible freedom of both speech and information. But I will ask her specifically about a link. Is a link materially different from relating her words?

    Liz

    I was just wondering. She may eventually come here and read all this, maybe she already has. I don't think I would be ok with it if my parent was doing what you are doing here. But I've never trusted them much anyway and keep them at arms length.

  19. #19
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    you are NOT risking annoyance!!

    There are a high proportion of later in life transitioners here. People that invested heavily in male lives are at alot more risk of crippling GID, and are much more likely to express their situation in dire terms...for us, it is dire...40 / 50 yrs...wonderful family...down the tubes!! that's what it feels like, and it informs all of us here...younger folks have time and their arcs are really different than people like me...

    None of us can say really anything "diagnosis" wise, especially from a note
    ..but i will say this...that post is not inconsistent with how transsexuals evolve in their thinking...i told everyone i was cd...people would ask me about trannsexuals and i would gasp.."OMG NO!!!"
    and i believed it at the time..

    being attracted to, and feelings attractive as a woman with a penis is not uncommon, and whether you call it transsexuality or not...outside of grs, the steps to get to your perfect self are the same as for a ts girl...

    I think your crossdressing has hurt your ability to accept her..you are well served to stop applying what you know about the tg world to the ts world...they are not comparable...

    i can tell you are loving and good,
    trust your child..if you don't trust, then you will be ignored...especially if your child is ts.

  20. #20
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    I totally relate to the attraction to pre op TSes (or in porn speak ********). I was compelled to look! did I want them or did I want to be one of them??????
    Actually the answer is neither but like Kaitlyn alluded to there are a multitude of ways one comes to an understanding of ones self.
    At the time it was informative for me, I definitely had an attraction to those girls. I think it was mostly their penises I was attracted to sexually AND the idea that I could some how some way be a woman, physically speaking that is (I didn't believe for a second that there was anyway I could ever pull it off!). They were sort of a physical manifestation of gender and sexuality, both of which I had denied for so long.

    Anyway what are you so afraid of? Hormones are not the end of the world, I wish they did all that that fast!
    I think it is fine to encourage her to seek therapy but other than that leave it alone.

  21. #21
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    In fact, if you could just support him or her, no matter what, it would be in your best interest.
    you'd likely get a better outcome..even a great outcome.... maybe with your support she will be more confident in her thinking...that is a big deal with ts people....we are down on ourselves for a long time...its hard to believe in yourself...
    she needs someone that has her back.
    You could be saving her from making a mistake just by listening

    I get it..i am a parent...i feel very protective of my kids.
    but
    if you stand in the way, or judge her/him then you will likely regret it and you lose whatever control you now have over the outcome..

  22. #22
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    Personally I think you are going way too far because this is not your problem and nor is any decision
    yours to make! From the fact you have trolled up her posts posts from another forum & posted it on
    this forum. I personally think you are becoming a very meddling & interfering parent, rather than a loving
    & supportive parent. Your child is an adult, but like many of us they are confused and if you are adding
    more stress to her issues & stalking her, then I have to think that is very poor parenting on your part.

    Leave your daughter to be if that is who she is - accept it and worry about your own life. If you really
    love your child then love her for the person SHE is, not as the person who you think SHE should be!

    EDIT: I posted this after I read the first post after seeing the link to her other posts posted here.
    Irrespective of the fact she is OK with others reading her posts, she would be having a much harder
    time with this because of your refusal to accept it and that you are going to such great lengths. So I
    stand by my words that you are coming across as a very meddling & interfering parent, rather than
    a loving & supportive parent. This will be the catalyst of a major rift between you both if it continues.
    Last edited by Melody Moore; 03-27-2012 at 06:10 PM.
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  23. #23
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    Liz,

    I know you and your wife love your child very very much but this is her life.
    She's 22 years old. You and your wife have no choice but to stand back and let her lead her life.
    Are you going to close the door on her like your wife already has or are you going to support her?

    Very soon she will grow so tired and angry of your concerns that she will stop communicating with you like she stopped communicating with her mother.
    Do you want this Liz?????

    Whether you do or don't does not matter because she will be gone and you'll be regretful.

    Stop it....Stop it now Liz!!


    Julia

  24. #24
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    I have a 22 year old son. And 26 & 18 yr olds. I understand.

    I also know that as independent as your son/daughter is, or at least as my boys are (staunchly independent just like their parents), when they hurt they want to know they are OK. Still. Even though they pretend they don't, they do.

    So you're OK in my book. Also, you are not ramming yourself and your views onto her. You are respectful of her freedom of choice. She knows this. It appears as if she has a much closer relationship with you than I've read from other members here whose parents were critical or gave up on them.

    When I was 20 I knew that I wanted to spend my weekends with the man who subsequently became my husband. This was many years ago and my father at the time staunchly objected to sex outside of marriage. He told me that unless I was prepared to sleep at home, I'd have to leave. I knew everything when I was 20 especially with regards to my own life since my father had such antiquated ideas, and so I left. Looking back now I see that I should have followed his advice.

    That said, I like the advice your child received on reddit to get therapy and I hope she takes it to heart. And I hope she finds a therapist who believes that gender is not binary. This is a concept that few people understand since we are all surrounded by either men or women. But I suspect there are far more people in this community who would feel freer if they embraced the concept, which it appears your son/daughter did when writing that post.

    I don't know the difference between feeling fully and truly female such as Bree, Melissa, Kaitlyn, Julia and others here (don't want to leave anyone out) who know without a doubt they are female, and feeling this overwhelming excitement at the prospect of experiencing femininity that others describe, even when they are not sure. From my POV as a GG, being feminine is a good thing but it is not as enthralling as young trans people often describe it and I often wonder how much this high level of emotion is affected by the release of dopamine, endorphins, oxytocin, and vasopressin. If the desire were fueled by this chemical release then it seems as if a person's true nature might not be female, but then having released these chems over a period of time might well cause a bond to be formed with the target gender so that it really doesn't matter what came first, the chicken or the egg. I hope that gender therapists have this figured out.

    Ultimately, I agree with others here. If your child is making a mistake, it is hers to make and also for her to experience the joy if she isn't. All you can do is be there for her should she ever need you.

    Has she considered her career options with transition? My middle son has just received an undergrad degree and he at this point still has idealistic views on fending for himself in the real world. I did too, before I was out there. My son is at the tail end of receiving support from his parents. He is currently wavering between finding a job that will give him the salary he feels he deserves, or going on to grad school.
    Reine

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    Liz,

    Your daughter does not need your control. Your daughter needs your love.

    Stephie

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