What would you do when face with the ultimatum.

[LA CINDY LOVE]

Soon or later we as crossdresses may be face with the ultimatum to stop dressing, it may come from or wifes, girl friends or from a family member.

When your wife or girl friend tells you to stop dressing or I will leave you can feel your heart drop and to have the family tell you that if you do not stop then do not come around any more.......that has to be very painful.

So many of us have try to stop dressing for our love ones to make them happy.......but for us we feel lost.

Why is it that they feel that it is so easy to stop......


LA CINDY LOVE

[beenherelongtime]

i don't know that they think it is easy to stop. they just don't understand it and unlike smoking they don't think it is addictive. they have a hard time understanding, because we ourselves do not completely understand. it sounds like you have someone close to you that has delivered the ultimation. good luck because you have heartache no matter what decision you make.

[TGMarla]

It makes no sense to promise something that one cannot deliver. I've been dressing in one way or another for 36 years or so. It's not likely that I would have the strength to stop complely, if at all. Furthermore, it's ingrained in my person. It's a big part of what makes me me. If I were forced to quit, especially cold turkey, I think it would have a very detrimental effect on my moods, my outlook, and the way I approach the world. In other words, it would wreak havoc on me emotionally.

So faced with the ultimatum, I'd volley that ball back into her court, and tell her very frankly that I would not like to lose her, but I would not be able to hold to a promise that made me stop dressing.

[Ediosa]

:iagree:

I have to say the same thing. My first thought would've been then bye. It is something of me and if you can't accept who I am then it will eventually go down the road that it is going to happen. But what she said, throw it back in her court and let her decide to leave, other than that, there is nothing you can do about it.

Maybe let her here the new 3 Doors Down song "Let me be myself", that's a great song for us girls and I think you all should youtube it and listen to the lyrics.

[MarcieM]

You can stop anything if you want to bad enough.
It depends on where your priorities lie.

[Tasha McIntyre]

When I came out to my wife she was obviously a bit shocked, but took it well and did her own research. She accepts, but does not want to hear about my shopping trips or see Tash at all.......the don't ask / don't tell scenario a lot of us are faced with.

I have never been given the ultimatum (thankfully), my wife knows I have more chance of waking up inn the morning with brown eyes than to be rid of my CD addiction!

Cheers

Tash :)

[DanaR]

It makes no sense to promise something that one cannot deliver. I've been dressing in one way or another for 36 years or so. It's not likely that I would have the strength to stop complely, if at all. Furthermore, it's ingrained in my person. It's a big part of what makes me me. If I were forced to quit, especially cold turkey, I think it would have a very detrimental effect on my moods, my outlook, and the way I approach the world. In other words, it would wreak havoc on me emotionally.

So faced with the ultimatum, I'd volley that ball back into her court, and tell her very frankly that I would not like to lose her, but I would not be able to hold to a promise that made me stop dressing.

I would have to agree with TGMarla. The problem with an ultimatum is that it’s all about trying to control someone. We all have feelings, which are neither, right or wrong, but they are our feelings. Everyone should be able to communicate his or her feelings to their SO’s and reach a compromise, if one is necessary.

[Ediosa]

Why would I stop something that is a part of me. Unlike you Marcie, it looks like you can, therefore, congrats. I personally like who I am. If someone doesn't want this total package then their lost. I currently have an ex-wife that has told me, that if I wanted her back that she will take me back no problems. She found out that most "real men" are basically a#$holes. Therefore, for me I am a great package and any woman that accepts my CDing will benefit what I have to offer.

[sissystephanie]

You can stop anything if you want to bad enough.
It depends on where your priorities lie.

Marcie, you are 100% correct. I started dressing at age 8 and am now 76! I told my late wife before we were married, and said that I would stop if she wanted me to. She did not want me to stop, as long as I remembered that I was her MAN! However, on my own I did stop for a 5 year period, after deciding that dressing was not very manly!:doh:. Only started dressing again because she begged me to!! She said she missed Stephanie and the fun times we had as two girls!:daydreaming:

It does all depend on where your priorities are. If "you" come before your loved ones. then probably you will never stop. Because your "love" is not that strong. But if your love for your wife, or SO, is absolute, than yes you can stop! It is entirely up to you! She married, or loves, a man, so be one!

[anna kate]

I would give up most anything for my wife (who is sticking it out with me.) There would have to be some negotiation,should an ultimatum be issued. There is always middle ground, finding it is the tough part.

[ReineD]

First I agree with you wholeheartedly. How sad that some spouses or family members either refuse to move beyond their moral or religious biases, or they cannot come to understand the integral nature of being trans; that it is not a choice.

And sadly, people also have a host of other deal breakers that cause relationships and marriages to end. There is a very high rate of divorce in our culture notwithstanding CDing, and for a multitude of reasons. Here's a short list:

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/common-causes-and-reasons-for-divorce.html

Providing there are no forms of abuse in the relationship, ideally we like to see marriage vows being honored. We hate to think someone should want to end a relationship over some of the issues, such as experiencing financial problems or temporary setbacks due to differences in career goals. And if the love was strong in the beginning and there was a strong basis for compatibility, we like to think love should continue to conquer all. It is heartbreaking when it does not.

You asked why it is that family members feel that it is so easy to stop the CDing. They are in denial because they cannot let go of their expectations that "life" must look a certain way in order to provide them with happiness. They cannot alter their own course. And they are not alone in their thinking, based on some of the reasons for divorce in the link above that might have been overcome with time and compromise.
:hugs:

[trannie T]

Anna Kate said almost exactly what I wished to say. Do not accept an ultimatum, rather present a third or fourth option, such as counselling.

[obsessedwithpantyhose]

cding is what makes us who we are,,its part of us like an arm or leg,,
if the person wants to change us then they dont realy love us for who we are

and if we had to stop dressing,,i for one know that no amount of meds or talking will keep me from exploding....

and its small minded thinking that it can be "cured" like a cold if we just go and talk to a therapist....

i just turnd 46,,started wearing pantyhose when i was 12,,,you do the math,,i didnt stop when my son was born and im NOT gona stop now no matter who says i have to,,,,besides everyone who knows me knows about my cding and they alll still chat with me...


wow this was posting 1111 for me :D

[Dawn Marie]

My wife has given me the ultimatum of quit CDing or leave. I've tried and it works for a while(the longest about two years) but then it comes back with a vengance. I don't want to hide it from her but she gives me no choice. I try taking to her but she doesn't really want to hear about it. I've been seeing a therapist, but that only enhances the feeling that I am perfectly comfortable with who I am. I try to get her to go, but says she is too busy. I've lost two previous marriages because partially of my CDing, but that wasn't the only reasons. I don't what to lose her or the kids but I get so depressed when I can't just be myself, even if it is private. The only thing I can do is keep trying to change her thinking or don't see/don't tell.

[Lorileah]

doesn't it seem funny that the wedding vows almost always say "for richer, for poorer; in sickness and in health; for better for worse..." and then the fairy tale is over. They say that a man marries a woman thinking she will never change, and a woman marries a man thinking she can change him. Neither is true. No one should ever have to accept an ultimatum. There should never be a black or white answer to everything. The members of this forum prove that. One should always look for new options, compromises. Relationships evolve, that is a fact. We all have points where we question who we are and who we marry. But as i have said before, there was something that made you two want to be together in the beginning. Look deep inside, that person is still there, they may be buried under the stress of life, but they are there.

When a relationship gets to the "my way or the highway" state, it may be time to ride that thumb to the next destination. Someone who can understand that we are all different and embraces the person you are. That is true love.

[kym]

You can stop anything if you want to bad enough.
It depends on where your priorities lie.

i beg to differ. I was given a choice, kym or my wife, after much soul searching i chose kym. I tried to stop many times, always went back to my true self no matter how hard i tried. Some would say i lacked willpower or drive to stop, but, it came down to what would make me happier, being married to someone who wanted to control me(and it was not only my dressing) or be more comfortable about who i was and the way i was born. Some can control the urge to dress,I cannot because its who i am. I was able to quit a lot of things(for example: smoking,drinking, illicit drugs) but those things were not who i was or who i wanted to be. My number one priority is being happy and being with someone who can accept me as a human, not necessarily as a man or a woman.

[trever_zander]

For this one i have to give my GF props. before she even tried to approach me about some ultimatum she made the effort to read both of the Helen Boyd books (She's Not The Man I Married and My Husband Betty), and I have to say that really helped the conversation when she got up enough nerve to confront me about my dressing. So, given the fact that I hadn't read either of the books and felt a little lost for how to explain things to her, I also read through both of them. Wonderful books, which I would recommend to anybody's SO, GF, wife, or otherwise, to help them understand our position.

While I can't give you any personal words of wisdom, or the perfect come back line for such an unreasonable ultimatum, I can say that those books worked wonders to start the dialog and ease the communication.

[Melanie R]

My first wife and her father gave me an ultimatum of stopping my sinful crossdressing lifestyle or divorce. I told both of them to get the divorce. That was the best decision of my life.

[RobynP]

Soon or later we as crossdresses may be face with the ultimatum to stop dressing, it may come from or wifes, girl friends or from a family member.



1) Family Members -- If one is dependent upon that family for food and/or shelter, then one should be respectful of their wishes until sufficient funds are acquired to move out. It is no fun being a homeless crossdresser....

2) Girlfriend -- This depends on the definition of "girlfriend". If one has been living with their girlfriend for a few years and children are involved, go to #3 - Wife. If the definition of girlfriend is a casual relationship, then it is time to say, "See you later! Glad we found this out now before we got married!"

3) Wife -- In a strong marriage, there should never be any ultimatums given by either husband or wife (except for abuse, alcoholism or drugs, or adultery). An ultimatum could be a sign of someone who is feeling that they have lost control of the situation or they feel very threatened. I think the best way to handle this is to find out what is the reason for the ultimatum and address that issue. Do NOT give in and do NOT issue your own ultimatum. Do not get mad or upset. Your relationship has just suffered a serious injury. If you cut yourself badly and were bleeding all over the place, you'd seek immediate medical treatment, right? The ultimatum is a serious relationship "injury" and now the relationship is "bleeding all over the place". You now need to seek immediate relationship treatment (from a qualified 3rd party).

Robyn P.

[Sheila]

I may be far off base here, purely beacuse I am an accepting SO, but it may be because they did not know for so long that "they want to return" to that space ..... we know it can't be done, but it may be in their minds that if you "stop Dressing" they believe it may have Just been a "phase" and so can go back to the place of not knowing ...... does that make any sort of weird sense ?

[MarcieM]

i beg to differ. I was given a choice, kym or my wife, after much soul searching i chose kym. I tried to stop many times, always went back to my true self no matter how hard i tried.
Then you made your choice. Nothing wrong with that, if it's what you really want. But there's nobody holding a gun to your head. Anyone can stop cd-ing if they want to.

[Jess_cd32]

.......Why is it that they feel that it is so easy to stop......


LA CINDY LOVE

Because they think we do this by choice.


..............Anyone can stop cd-ing if they want to.
I highly doubt this comment!

When I came out to my SO recently I told her this isn't a choice thing and its not going to just go away, its here to stay. At first she said she was going to leave but has since calmed down some.
Its not easy for alot of others to accept us as they don't understand us and have very wrong impressions that go with it.

[battybattybats]

I got the ultimatum... but mine was worse.

Cause mine had more to it:

If I CD'd again it would hurt her. If I hurt her the relationship would be over. If the relationship was over she'd have nothing else to live for... and would kill herself!

So mine literally had a suicide threat at the end of it!

If it werent for that i would have stood my ground. With it though I said that that the ultimatum wasn't fair, that usually my response is to do the opposite of what was demanded of me rather than give in to any such demands but as depression and suicide was in the mix that what was most important was getting her help...

Yeah well that was years of struggle to get her dragging heels to any sort of help for her problems and I'm still suffering from what I went through trying to get her to help she then squandered.

And when finally I was at breaking point and ended the relationship? Well that was over a year ago and as of the 2nd of this month at least she's still alive. That at least is good.

[Kelli Michelle]

You can stop anything if you want to bad enough.
It depends on where your priorities lie.

Really? I guess a gay person could just stop being gay too, huh? Or a lesbian could just stop being a lesbian, right? What about TSs? Could a hetero person stop being hetero if they want to bad enough? I could see you being right if cding was just a choice, but for many of us it's not. In those cases, I believe you would be (respectfully) mistaken.

Ultimatums box people into a corner. It also distorts and limits their choices; an aggressive and obnoxious sense of pressure is added to an already difficult decision. Second, because of the ultimatum, resentment is sure to linger, no matter what the result. Should a loving spouse or SO take this route? Maybe....if she is unwilling/unable to compromise...but damn, try to be loving when you do make the ultimatum, "I love you, and I know this is difficult for you, but it is for me as well. I have tried to understand and come to grips with this, but find I am unable. Would you be willing/able to quit for me? Because honestly, I can't see myself living with another woman....etc".

"Ultimatums are more 'nasty conditional' love than selfless 'I accept you for who you are' kind-of love."

As far as what I would do? I can't/won't stop, so if I said "ok, I'll stop", it would be a lie. So I would be truthful and put the ball back in her court.

[Angel.Marie76]

I've only had this conversation with my therapist at this point, but if for some reason my son just /totally/ lost his S#@t over my dressing, I only said that I would do whatever would be necessary not to crush him. If I had to say to him that I would not dress around him, obviously that would make my life difficult if I've already came out to everyone else. If my family told me to stop dressing.. um.. well, see, there's catches to all of this. If my mother and I became alienated, then she wouldn't be able to really interact with her grandson as easily (as just one example).

As far as an SO goes, in previous experiences I've just dug deeper into the back of my closet and hid. *sigh* I know it doesn't do much for the relationship at that point, and has caused me to purge before, and just overall STOP dressing for significant time. In the long run though Angel's continued to poke her head out of the closet again and again.. the reality of my inner self I suppose. Without having the experience and fortitude to have lasted through a multi-decade relation or marriage, I can only say that if my SOs recent haven't been accepting these days, they haven't been around relatively long.

[kym]

Then you made your choice. Nothing wrong with that, if it's what you really want. But there's nobody holding a gun to your head. Anyone can stop cd-ing if they want to.

not true. i have tried many times to stop dressing for the sake of my wife, it never worked because the urge was always there. Many people think that this is an addiction when its more like a genetic trait. An addiction can be overcome being transgendered cannot.

[CharlotteW]

I'm married to a fabulous lady and I'd do anything to keep our marriage in order, that includes giving up some hobbies.

[Angie G]

They just don't understand it isn't something we just do to pass time that it something inside us. that drives us. And unfortunately many don't want to try to understand. I thank God my wife knows Angie is a part of me and accepts her being a part of my. :hugs:
Angie

[Susan Dee]

Anyone can stop cd-ing if they want to.

Sorry Marcie, but it's not as simple - or as easy - as that.

Like most of us (all of us?) being a CDer is something that is so deeply within me that to stop would be to destroy a part of me.

It's taken me years to come to terms with who I am, the whole me, and I realize that I cannot expect others to easily understand in just a short space of time.

I think I go with the other comments. The only real hope is to try to understand each others fears, to talk things through with open minds, and through love to reach a position that we can each be happy with.

[RachelTVG]

I would tell my girlfriend that dressing is a part of me and I can't change it. If she can't or won't respect that then she should leave. I'd look for someone else who could accept me.

[StacyCD]

Ultimatums usually come from ignorance but the good news is that ignorance can usually be cured by education. However, some people simply choose not to be enlightened and this has led to racism, sexism, antisemitism, etc... After marriage, I thought my desire to CD would go away. I was wrong. I purged several times and each time the desire/need to cross dress came back. The idea that I could supress or eliminate my desire to cross dress was based on the idea that crossdressing was somehow wrong. Now I understand that it is a part of me and it is an important part that I could not live without. In an real sense, my crossdressing is a part of what makes me the person that I am. I believe my need to cross dress is based on the wiring in my brain and without a brainectomy (no such thing I just made it up), there is no 'cure' for crossdressing. Even if it were possible to 'cure' crossdressing, I would not be the same person that I am. Unfortunately, suicide, depression, and drug abuse are more likely in people who try to supress their need to crossdress. Just look at the statistics for young gay and lesbians who are not accepted by their parents. The only thing is that the public is seemingly more accepting of gays and lesbians than crossdressers!

[jruiz]

This is a very difficult topic...

In my case, my wife is clueless (I think), and of course I've never told her. When we married, I thought that I would stop dressing and that the urge would go away.

And it's not just "ignorance" from her not accepting that. If we call ourselves "open-minded" we need to respect other people set of believes. It's just not compatible with her principles, and I can even understand why.

To be honest, if I could stop I would stop. Period. And I probably could (I have for periods of time), it's just too difficult.

In my case, I'm a cross dresser, not a transgendered. I don't feel trapped in the wrong body. But I have enjoyed and have cross dress since age 8. I enjoy it just because I enjoy my feminine side, but let's also face it: it also as to do with the sexual arouse involved with it.

We usually talk about "the urge". And we justify ourselves by using "the urge" as an argument.

What if "our urge" would be for cheating our wives with other women instead of cross dressing? Or smoking? or sado-masochism? What would be the difference?

It's about "our" urge (or "my" urge). I'm not thinking in anybody else when I do that. It's selfish, because I care more about how much I like cross dressing than the consequences and the damage I could do in the people I love.

Sure, I have the right to enjoy that. I could even be right if I say I deserve to enjoy it. I wish I had everything, cross dressing whenever I like, a wife proud of his cross dresser husband, and a society that would admire me for my efforts for passing as a real girl. Wouldn't it be nice?. By that's not reality. Reality is that I, using my free will, chose my wife and made a promise of being with her until the end of my days. Nobody forced me to. And I decided, also using my free will, not to tell her because I honestly thought that I would stop.

I could be a bigger man and leave this lovely hobby in sacrifice for my loved ones. Many other bigger men make bigger sacrifices for their family or for their country. It's just a matter of personal decision.

I don't mean to judge anybody or play with anybody's guilt. It's just a quick rambling about my thought on this matter.

If she ever finds out and gives me an ultimatum, I'd do all my best to stop cross dressing.

[Kelli Michelle]

And it's not just "ignorance" from her not accepting that. If we call ourselves "open-minded" we need to respect other people set of believes. It's just not compatible with her principles, and I can even understand why.

This is a two way street, no? I mean you should respect her beliefs, AND she should respect yours, right?

As far as the "urge" goes, if that is all it is, than I would say no problem giving it up for her. But what if its more than that, like a lot of people on this forum?

"What if "our urge" would be for cheating our wives with other women instead of cross dressing? Or smoking? or sado-masochism? What would be the difference?"

Obviously there is a huge difference between cding and the above. It doesn't endanger you or others, it's not immoral or illegal, and hurts no one. Those are inapproprate comparisons, imho.

One's acceptance of the wife's/so's position in her ultimatum, should she give you one, would be disingenuous if you know you would cd again. What if you tried and couldn't do it? Would you tell her that you messed up? Or keep silent?

Love of ones wife/family, would not neccessarily keep one from dressing, if it's part of who you are. If it's just another habit, different story.

[jruiz]

This is a two way street, no? I mean you should respect her beliefs, AND she should respect yours, right?


Agree 100%. But what if beliefs are very different or even incompatible? Then the only solution is to break up? Sometimes we have to decide on trade-offs. And my love for my wife is stronger than this belief.

As far as the "urge" goes, if that is all it is, than I would say no problem giving it up for her. But what if its more than that, like a lot of people on this forum?


That's the main point, my dear. That's what makes it difficult.


"What if "our urge" would be for cheating our wives with other women instead of cross dressing? Or smoking? or sado-masochism? What would be the difference?"

Obviously there is a huge difference between cding and the above. It doesn't endanger you or others, it's not immoral or illegal, and hurts no one. Those are inapproprate comparisons, imho.


I know that the comparisons can be extreme, but here we go again with the beliefs. Sado-masochism might be "normal" for some couples, not for others... A wife finding out about the hidden cross dressing of his husband will definitively hurt her.

One's acceptance of the wife's/so's position in her ultimatum, should she give you one, would be disingenuous if you know you would cd again. What if you tried and couldn't do it? Would you tell her that you messed up? Or keep silent?


That's another difficult one. But it's also a matter of choice.


Love of ones wife/family, would not neccessarily keep one from dressing, if it's part of who you are. If it's just another habit, different story.


A loving CD would not force others to accept dressing, if it's difficult for their beliefs or for any other reason. This is also a two ways road.

Remember, You're entitled to happiness too!!!!

Sure! But it would be sad that my happiness relies and depends only in cross dressing.

[racquel]

[B]
Sure! But it would be sad that my happiness relies and depends only in cross dressing.
I don't believe that is what she meant.:straightface:
I think she means that you -as a person- deserve to be happy as yourself and this includes your cd'ing as most of us have been doing this ALL our lives and it has contributed to making us into the human beings we now are and to stop would not be possible.:2c:

[jruiz]

I don't believe that is what she meant.:straightface:
I think she means that you -as a person- deserve to be happy as yourself and this includes your cd'ing as most of us have been doing this ALL our lives and it has contributed to making us into the human beings we now are and to stop would not be possible.:2c:

Racquel,

You are right, I didn't mean to be harsh with my comment.

What really pisses me off (with myself), is that I hate that cross dressing could possible be stronger than me, stronger than other many things that provide me with truth fulfilling happiness.

Cross dressing has provided good doses on joy and happiness, but nothing compared with the things that cross dressing could endanger.

Just to make it short: my marriage and family are the most important things in my life. I'm willing to stop CDing if I have to, no matter how hard it might be. I hope I never have to get to that point, though...

[Sheila]

Then you made your choice. Nothing wrong with that, if it's what you really want. But there's nobody holding a gun to your head. Anyone can stop cd-ing if they want to.

Marcie, I am a GG and I do not believe that it is possible for a cdr to "stop" cding at will without severe mental pain, even to the point of seriously contemplating suicide in some cases.

Sure some "stop" for periods at a time, the need disappears, but if that need is there then Stopping can be detremental to their own health and to relationship all around them .. just my :2c: I may be wrong :eek:

[Deborah Jane]

Anyone can stop cd-ing if they want to.

For short periods maybe, even a few years is possible, but permanantly...NEVER!!!

[jruiz]

Marcie, I am a GG and I do not believe that it is possible for a cdr to "stop" cding at will without severe mental pain, even to the point of seriously contemplating suicide in some cases.


Gee, you make it sound like a disease :eek::eek::eek:

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

My wife knows but I've never gotten the ultimatum, so I'm very lucky in that respect. If I did get the ultimatum... I'm certain my marriage would fall apart rather quickly.

When I came out to my wife, I was already bursting - I couldn't keep it to myself anymore. I did it slowly, over time, but I had to come out when I did because I couldn't keep it bottled up anymore.

I spent about 35 years fighting the urges, with little success. I tried to kill off that defective part of my personality, but it didn't work.


Why is it that they feel that it is so easy to stop......

They probably think it is a defect in our personality - like swearing too much or lack of manners. We all know better though.

Crossdressing is NOT a defect in us, it is ONLY a social taboo and something most people (non-cd's) just don't understand.

I think it is safe to say that marriages in which where the ultimatum is dropped will never truly work - at least not on an honest level. With very, VERY few exceptions, crossdressers cannot change who they are - they can only lie to themselves and live with the personal torment that fighting the urge (to be who they really are) will bring them.

It makes me very sad to think that many crossdressers end up in this situation. It sometimes drives me mad thinking about it. It's not fair to force a man in to a life that he cannot live without being completely miserable with himself.

I've never had any success changing various things about women I've dated before getting married. That is what usually lead to relationship termination. Why on earth would a woman think she can change who a man really is? It just doesn't work that way.

[Joanne f]

Ultimatum,
not the sort of word i would like to hear in a relationship as it really has connotations that you are doing something really unacceptable in a relationship and i know that i am going to be biased but i could not see how some form of Cding could not have some acceptance as the Cder should be able to appreciate an acceptable level for their Cding.
Relationships are an on going thing and working things out together is part of that, so if it come`s to ultimatums someone is someone has to look at it and ask why.



Then you made your choice. Nothing wrong with that, if it's what you really want. But there's nobody holding a gun to your head. Anyone can stop cd-ing if they want to.


I consider myself as quite strong willed if i want to be and if i was given an ultimatum for some reason to save my marriage/family i would say to them ok i will stop and maybe they might think that i had stopped but i can quite honestly say that i know for sure that i would not stop i would do it in secret and i would hate myself for that and it would eat away it me , but i am only telling you how i feel that doe`s not mean that others can`t stop as they may dress for completely different reasons than i do

[Sheila]

Marcie, I am a GG and I do not believe that it is possible for a cdr to "stop" cding at will without severe mental pain, even to the point of seriously contemplating suicide in some cases.


Gee, you make it sound like a disease :eek::eek::eek:

no I don't ........ as far as I am aware, I believe it to be a part of who they are, and to deny that part will cause them severe manetal anguish ........ now correct me if I am wrong

[jruiz]

no I don't ........ as far as I am aware, I believe it to be a part of who they are, and to deny that part will cause them severe manetal anguish ........ now correct me if I am wrong

Well, I think that it is not true for a CD. Maybe it's different for a Transgendered person.

And again, maybe there are some shades in between...

[Anne-Marie]

Marcie, you are 100% correct. I started dressing at age 8 and am now 76! I told my late wife before we were married, and said that I would stop if she wanted me to. She did not want me to stop, as long as I remembered that I was her MAN! However, on my own I did stop for a 5 year period, after deciding that dressing was not very manly!:doh:. Only started dressing again because she begged me to!! She said she missed Stephanie and the fun times we had as two girls!:daydreaming:

Steph, you stopped dressing and after 5 years she asked you to re start your dressing habbit. No way, she must have been a truly golden girl. You are just so lucky and must really have had some special times together.

I'm totally green with envy.

:bye: for now.

[jruiz]

Marcie, you are 100% correct. I started dressing at age 8 and am now 76! I told my late wife before we were married, and said that I would stop if she wanted me to. She did not want me to stop, as long as I remembered that I was her MAN! However, on my own I did stop for a 5 year period, after deciding that dressing was not very manly!:doh:. Only started dressing again because she begged me to!! She said she missed Stephanie and the fun times we had as two girls!:daydreaming:

It does all depend on where your priorities are. If "you" come before your loved ones. then probably you will never stop. Because your "love" is not that strong. But if your love for your wife, or SO, is absolute, than yes you can stop! It is entirely up to you! She married, or loves, a man, so be one!

Stephanie,

If she wouldn't have asked... What would have been the case?

Sure it's not a manly thing to do, very hard to argue on this :tongueout:tongueout:tongueout

[MarcieM]

not true. i have tried many times to stop dressing for the sake of my wife, it never worked because the urge was always there. Many people think that this is an addiction when its more like a genetic trait. An addiction can be overcome being transgendered cannot.
Ok, then I guess someone must have forced you to crossdress at gunpoint.

no I don't ........ as far as I am aware, I believe it to be a part of who they are, and to deny that part will cause them severe manetal anguish ........ now correct me if I am wrong
I never said anything about not having mental anguish, or it not being hard. I said anyone can stop if they make their mind up. Cd-ing is a choice.

[Sheila]

I said anyone can stop if they make their mind up. Cd-ing is a choice.


That is the point .... it is not for many

[Deborah Jane]

I said anyone can stop if they make their mind up. Cd-ing is a choice

Yeah, in the same way dying is!!

Prove to me that someone can give up C/Ding by just deciding too and they don,t have mental issues as a result.

Can you give up by willpower alone?

[LA CINDY LOVE]

I do feel that I push my wife in to a corner and brought all this down on me you see CINDY was out of control when I look back on it.........it was all about CINDY and her selfish ways.

All the lying, sneakiness going out on the weekends coming home very late was starting to put a strange on my marriage I was spending more time with CINDY then my wife and kids....... she would let me know how she and the kids were feeling many time but I was to much into Cindy

Well it got to the point were it was just to much fighting in the house about CINDY so I had to make a choice or be face the ultimatum that would soon come, so I stop dressing and grow a beard......uuuuuhh, but I do have to say that the kids are doing better and me and my wife are doing a lot better I know that she loves me and I do love her and my kids very much.

IN the last 4mo I only been out 1 time and that was to a friends B-DAY party my wife told me to go because she said that I needed to get it out of my system, so one day this week we were talking about a gas bill and she said ask me when was I going to get rid of Cindys clothing........I said nothing...... so she ask again....I SAID GET RID OF MY CLOTHING!!!!!!!

She said yes I want you to get rid of all your clothing wigs make-up jewelry and shoes by the end of this week (this was on Tuesday)......buy this time I had stop breathing, having my clothing around was like a security blanket.....so I ask why,well you did say that you are going to stop dressing right........I did say that,and if you get rid of all your Cindy clothing and stuff that you will have no desire to dress because you have nothing to wear.

But what about your clothing ? have you forgot that it was your clothing that i was wearing at first and your shoes.......this time I think she stop breathing.

I told her that the desire is not going away because my clothing is gone and not a day goes by that I do not think about dressing and that I do not wish to be a women at all,
I spend 5yr building CINDY from nothing to a statement it is a part of me that I am trying to let go.......it just takes time.

You see I was not dressing when I got with my wife and know nothing about crossdressing, then at the age of 45 I put on a dress for the first time........and I love the way it felt.......at that time I guess I was just going though some stage in my life and it would soon run it's course...........boy was I wrong.

I do know that my days as Cindy........will soon come to a end.


LA CINDY LOVE

[MarcieM]

Yeah, in the same way dying is!!
Prove to me that someone can give up C/Ding by just deciding too and they dont have mental issues as a result.
Can you give up by willpower alone?
Yes, you can if you want to bad enough. You're making this sound like a heroin addiction. It's not the same.

That is the point .... it is not for many
Cd-ing is absolutely a choice, unless we're talking about forced feminization, and everyone knows that doesn't happen.

[Deborah Jane]

Yes, you can if you want to bad enough. You're making this sound like a heroin addiction. It's not the same.



Fact.....I tried, believe me i tried, i,ve even got a few scars to prove it! [Mental and physical]
Why the hell would we put ourselves through the crap we have to deal with in our lives if giving up was that easy?

[Sheila]

Cd-ing is absolutely a choice, unless we're talking about forced feminization, and everyone knows that doesn't happen.

Read the forum, read the costs in broken marriages and lives ...... do you think people do that through choice . I DAMN WELL DON'T :Angry3::Angry3:

and as for
forced feminization, and everyone knows that doesn't happen. yes it can do

[MarcieM]

Fact.....I tried, believe me i tried, i,ve even got a few scars to prove it! [Mental and physical]
Why the hell would we put ourselves through the crap we have to deal with in our lives if giving up was that easy?
Where did I say it was EASY?
It's not easy, but anyone can quit cd-ing. It all depends on what you want to do. Keep cd-ing if that's your choice. Just don't make excuses and say you can't stop. Because it is a choice and you can stop if you really want to.

[kathrynjanos]

My natural disposition is to become highly confrontational. I would typically insist that they stop doing something they love which I could consider legitimately a problem and show them how asking me to do this would feel. Obviously, it would need to be a big habit of theirs, but it is my first reaction.

[trisha59]

Cd-ing is absolutely a choice,

There is no validity to this statement.
It has been a part of our lives for so long it's literally hard wired into us. And for what its worth If my wife or family ever made an ultimatum like this to me
I would be very disappointed in them.

[Marlena_Sparkles]

To answer the OP's question...I would stick to what I love best...being a lady. I am one of the many who think I should have been born a woman. I did not wake up one morning and think hmmm...I wonder what it's like to wear womens clothing. I have been doing this since I was about 7 or 8. All through my life on & off depending where & who I was living with. Once I was finally on my own,it was alot of the time. Nowadays it's all the time when I am not working. So for me it is not a choice,it's my way of life. I have had plenty of relationships & have never been married. Which is good. They say everything happens for a reason. I believe that. The way I see it is this is the way my life is suppose to be. Heck at least I found this out early in life & didn't destroy other peoples lives by getting married.

[Deborah Jane]

Where did I say it was EASY?
It's not easy, but anyone can quit cd-ing. It all depends on what you want to do. Keep cd-ing if that's your choice. Just don't make excuses and say you can't stop. Because it is a choice and you can stop if you really want to.


Yeah, my choice right?? :Angry3:

C/ding cost me my marriage, my home and my self respect!!

I never even thought about it for over 11 years and it came back at me, believe me if i could have stopped i would have!!

I,m assuming by your posts you,ve quit c/ding?
How long for?
And the golden question.....If you have quit, why are you back on a crossdressing forum?
If you,ve quit, as it would seem you are saying, you wouldn,t even be thinking about c/ding, so why are you here?

[MarcieM]

If youve quit, as it would seem you are saying, you wouldnt even be thinking about c/ding, so why are you here?
really? who decides what forum I can read online?
that comment makes no sense. Just because I read this forum doesn't mean I have to cd.

[Deborah Jane]

really? who decides what forum I can read online?
that comment makes no sense. Just because I read this forum doesn't mean I have to cd.

Very true, you can read where and what you want, the point is, that by being here, you prove c/ding is obviously something you still think about.

You may not c/d any longer, but by being here you,re proving you still think about it!!

[MarcieM]

Very true, you can read where and what you want, the point is, that by being here, you prove c/ding is obviously something you still think about.

You may not c/d any longer, but by being here you,re proving you still think about it!!

and your point is?

[Deborah Jane]

and your point is?

If you,ve quit c/ding and if it is indeed possible, why do you still feel the need to think about?

How long has it been since you last c/ded?
How long have you been quit?

I know for a fact it never even crossed my mind for 11 years, i wouldn,t have even thought about looking for information about it during that time!!

[Jonianne]

no I don't ........ as far as I am aware, I believe it to be a part of who they are, and to deny that part will cause them severe manetal anguish ........ now correct me if I am wrong

Sheila, you are exactly right here. I know. I went through it, nearly literaly went insane, hearing voices etc. It wasn't until I accepted being a crossdresser while I was in therapy (Christian therapists at that) that finally I received peace. I've told my story in other threads.

Also accepting my CD'ing also allowed me to determine how far it extended as far as being TS or what.



Well, I think that it is not true for a CD. Maybe it's different for a Transgendered person......

Yes it is true for a CD as well. After having peace about it for years, it was easy to determine that I was "just" a crossdresser and that I have no desire to go any farther. When you struggle with accepting yourself, you have no idea how far you need to go because of all the anguish. You can't sit still and listen to your heart. That changes when you truly accept yourself.

[Katrina red nails]

I have spoken of my ultimatum elsewhere before but a potted history is:-
I have worn nighties and panties in my wifes presence for years and she was ok with it.
Within 3 weeks of my being honest with her about my inner desires and expanding into regular daywear female attire i had the ultimatum "stop or i leave"
We argued long and hard. I offered several compromises but all were rejected with no compromise coming back the other way. I said i couldn't stop dressing and we ended up saying we would therefore split sell the house and go our separate ways (we had even told family members we were splitting up)
Eventually, to try to save my marriage one last time i made the offer to go back to nighties and panties only and stop the rest (not really knowing whether i could cope with this offer.)
She asked why i did this and i said i loved her and didnt want to lose her.
After time mulling it over she came back with the response that we would stay together and she loved me too and it was unfair of her to ask me to stop doing what made me happy and i could carry on dressing provided i didn't involve her and no-one else was to know.(which were boundaries we had in place for that initial 3 week period anyway)
So basically it got very very close to the edge but all came good in the end but every couple is different so the outcomes could be different.

[kathrynjanos]

I have spoken of my ultimatum elsewhere before but a potted history is:-
I have worn nighties and panties in my wifes presence for years and she was ok with it.
Within 3 weeks of my being honest with her about my inner desires and expanding into regular daywear female attire i had the ultimatum "stop or i leave"
We argued long and hard. I offered several compromises but all were rejected with no compromise coming back the other way. I said i couldn't stop dressing and we ended up saying we would therefore split sell the house and go our separate ways (we had even told family members we were splitting up)
Eventually, to try to save my marriage one last time i made the offer to go back to nighties and panties only and stop the rest (not really knowing whether i could cope with this offer.)
She asked why i did this and i said i loved her and didnt want to lose her.
After time mulling it over she came back with the response that we would stay together and she loved me too and it was unfair of her to ask me to stop doing what made me happy and i could carry on dressing provided i didn't involve her and no-one else was to know.(which were boundaries we had in place for that initial 3 week period anyway)
So basically it got very very close to the edge but all came good in the end but every couple is different so the outcomes could be different.

Though yours is an extreme case Katrina, I think that my girlfriend's statements of disapproval are partly because she does object, but also partly because she feels that if I don't stop, drop, and roll on command, I don't love her. I think that your expression of loving her regardless and being willing to end a part of your life for her was enough for her to understand where you're coming from.

In my case, I love my gf, but I do not have any intentions of marrying her, even if we've been together four years. I could not put myself in the position of being simply tied to her demands because it's a hell of a lot harder to leave her once married. My response to her every time she's demanded I stop some part of this has been "You are not tied to me, you can leave at any time. I don't want it, but I'd rather that than the other way around." I think for her it's much more a way to express control than to express displeasure.

[Pattie O]

I think you have to accept who you are and then manage that as best as you can.In my situation even though I would love to be totally out it is just not possible unless I wanted to jeopardise my marriage and children.I just hope that as time moves on I can have more time to be"me" as my feminine self whether thats at home or at a meeting if the opportunity arises.
Pattie:daydreaming:

[TxKimberly]

That sort of ultimatum from a girl friend would have only one response from me:
"See ya'!"
That would have made it pretty clear that we were not going to have a good relationship so why drag it out?

From a wife? That one is a lot tougher and not to be answered with a flippant reply. I don't know what I'd do if my wife demanded that of me.

[JulieC]

I'm responding to Marcie here, but it's really to everyone who might be interested.

You say CDing is a choice. Others here say it's not a choice. Here's the problem... None of us, whether we think it's a choice or not, has any research to back it up.

Transgender issues are almost like the third rail of psychology. There's precious little research being done in this area of humanity. The realit is, there is a HUGE area of research that is essentially untouched ground. There's a few studies here and there, but it's grains of sand vs. what should be a beach. Without the beach, nobody can scientifically say it's a choice or not.

Compare for a moment to research into homosexuality. Increasing evidence strongly points to homosexuality not being a choice. Yet, research in that arena is only just beginning as well. There's just no research into crossdressing at this point to support either position.

For my part, I strongly believe it is not a choice. My unscientific reasons for believing this:
* The vast majority of cross dressers have memories of the desire for or actions in cross dressing at an early age.
* I've yet to hear of any CDer who successfully repressed their desire to crossdress on a permanent basis. Over and over again we hear of CDers who purge, only to come back and crossdress again.
* I have heard of zillions of CDers whose lives were horribly affected due to crossdressing.
* One small study of brain structures in transexual people noted the structures of their brains did not match the gender of their outward appearance, but that of the opposite gender.

[jruiz]

Well, I guess that all we can conclude is that we are all different.

In my case, I think that I could quit, but it's not going to be easy. I just hate to have so much self compassion and just quit and enforce the idea that I just can't fight it. Great people through history has had bigger and more difficult battles than this. I can't be such a looser...

However, I have my own strategy: I don't dress that much. I purge too often as to keep a nice collection of feminine clothes, and I hate mediocre results.

The way I almost get over it was a very unusual one: I went to a transformation service. It was my first and only time when somebody else besides me would have ever seen me dressed.

The makeup was great, but still I could see the manly me behind the make up. It was a big turn-off.

The other thing that really helped was that I had a very high fever at the moment, so the experience was not very enjoyable.

The urge went away for very long, until I decided something else: I shaved my body.

I tried to fool myself pretending that it was just a metrosexual impulse to follow fashion, but the first thing I did when I shaved my chest and legs was to create cleavage and put a skirt on... Impossible to describe...

Despite being all shaved, my legs didn't look that feminine. In my illusion, I thought that I would have great girl legs if I shaved. Well, that's what my wife said when she saw them, and they are not that bad to be honest, but wouldn't hold a second view. They are thin, yet muscular and defined. When I was younger I was self conscious about my legs because I thought they were feminine. Well, maybe they were some years ago and I lost the bus...

Again, it was a big turn off to still see the masculine me. But then, I decided that I was going to put the best of my efforts. I'm waiting breast forms a Veronica 2 over the mail. I will go again to transformation service. I will buy the clothes I have ever dream about and that I have researched in forums and hundreds of pictures that would look great on me.

If I don't convince myself with the image, I guess that it will be over. I will figure that my illusions and dreams are not real. And that I will never really be a beautiful woman.

But what if I do convince me, and decide to go to a mall or to the movies?. Who knows...

[kathrynjanos]

Well, I guess that all we can conclude is that we are all different.

In my case, I think that I could quit, but it's not going to be easy. I just hate to have so much self compassion and just quit and enforce the idea that I just can't fight it. Great people through history has had bigger and more difficult battles than this. I can't be such a looser...

However, I have my own strategy: I don't dress that much. I purge too often as to keep a nice collection of feminine clothes, and I hate mediocre results.

The way I almost get over it was a very unusual one: I went to a transformation service. It was my first and only time when somebody else besides me would have ever seen me dressed.

The makeup was great, but still I could see the manly me behind the make up. It was a big turn-off.

The other thing that really helped was that I had a very high fever at the moment, so the experience was not very enjoyable.

The urge went away for very long, until I decided something else: I shaved my body.

I tried to fool myself pretending that it was just a metrosexual impulse to follow fashion, but the first thing I did when I shaved my chest and legs was to create cleavage and put a skirt on... Impossible to describe...

Despite being all shaved, my legs didn't look that feminine. In my illusion, I thought that I would have great girl legs if I shaved. Well, that's what my wife said when she saw them, and they are not that bad to be honest, but wouldn't hold a second view. They are thin, yet muscular and defined. When I was younger I was self conscious about my legs because I thought they were feminine. Well, maybe they were some years ago and I lost the bus...

Again, it was a big turn off to still see the masculine me. But then, I decided that I was going to put the best of my efforts. I'm waiting breast forms a Veronica 2 over the mail. I will go again to transformation service. I will buy the clothes I have ever dream about and that I have researched in forums and hundreds of pictures that would look great on me.

If I don't convince myself with the image, I guess that it will be over. I will figure that my illusions and dreams are not real. And that I will never really be a beautiful woman.

But what if I do convince me, and decide to go to a mall or to the movies?. Who knows...

Ok, couple points here. First off, it sounds like you're in denial more than you are actually quitting or even trying to quit. You have gotten past the point where you acknowledge that you want to be more feminine, which is good, keep running with that. But my advice? Try not purging your collection next time. Stash it in the attic. Literally mothball it. I assure you that once you know that you don't need to keep spending money every time, you'll be more and more likely to want to try it again and get into the swing of it.

Second, you're not a loser because you can't "kick" this. In fact, hate to say it, but it is only gonna become stronger the more time passes. This is why I say don't pitch your stuff when you get sick of trying for a while.

Don't worry about your masculinity showing through your makeup and clothing. Little bits at a time and tips, tricks, and practice will help you disguise much of that. For example, with the help of my gf with some makeup and guidance, I feminized my face for the first time the other day. It wasn't total, I really need some bronzer to help soften my face. I have a fairly long and angular face, but between the various forms of makeup, I drew even my own eyes away from the hard angles and hid them, and really had a more feminine face. I wish I had an objective opinion about how it looked, but I'm not ready to show my face to many people yet.

[msginaadoll]

Its funny that this post came out, I was thinking of writing it myself. It got me thinking about what people have written about not telling your wife or SO if you were a cd. How so many thought it was wrong. Well Im going to take the unpopular stance as well. Crossdressing is a choice. I chose when I get dressed, nobody forces me to do it. Like many others I have been dressing at least partially since i was at least 8 or 9, and had thoughts as long as I can remember back to 5 years old or so. Ive tried to stop at times and it is damn tuff. Its very seldom far from my mind- so I do understand. It cost me my first marriage- my wife found out and couldnt deal with it. She thought I was gay, or may want a sex change soner or latter. She also thought I could never given it up. The funny thing was I would have given up or as told her tried my darndest for her. Why because my marriage vow was till death do us part. To me that was more important than my own personal needs. Sure I may have had emotional distress or not been fully who I am. But I did make that vow. Any type of behavior can be controlled It may be tuff but... Alcoholics stop drinking, people stop gambling... I am not sayin crossdressing is the same but I am saying people can stop things that are hard to do. Crossdressing is not a disease or an illness it is part of who I am but not the whole part. If my wife found out and told me I had to give it up would I. Well I would tell her I would try my utmost as hard as I ever did in my life-because she was what was important. If I can put my life aside and die for her then I can try to stop for her. But then who knows Im a hypocrite because I havent even told her... Gina

[jruiz]

Again, we are unique. I can see many people answering transporting their own experiences on others.

I can't tell for sure that it's not a choice for somebody else. Maybe it's hardwired into their brain or whatever. But I just think that it's not my case.

[LA CINDY LOVE]

I think you have to accept who you are and then manage that as best as you can.In my situation even though I would love to be totally out it is just not possible unless I wanted to jeopardise my marriage and children.I just hope that as time moves on I can have more time to be"me" as my feminine self whether thats at home or at a meeting if the opportunity arises.
Pattie:daydreaming:
Very well said Pattie I love what you have said, if you are a single CD in some cases you can just walk away, but if you are a married CD then it is a new ball game, and if you have kids too........then you have to work things out...... no CD wants to walk away from his family with out a fight.

If crossdressing is not a choice............then why is it so hard and painful and difficult to stop, many crossdressers have try to stop only to fail, and those who have stop for a few years have come back with a vengeance.

LA CINDY LOVE

[battybattybats]

We usually talk about "the urge". And we justify ourselves by using "the urge" as an argument.

What if "our urge" would be for cheating our wives with other women instead of cross dressing? Or smoking? or sado-masochism? What would be the difference?

Well lets see. 1 in 3 men and women cheat so it's far more 'normal' than the up to 10% who regularly crossdress. It's unethical when done without informing ones partner because its increased risk of STD transmission puts their life in increased danger. It can be dealt with thoroughly ethically though through open relationships, swinging, polyamory etc which when 1 in 3 husbands and wives wil cheat anyway is really something everyone needs to consider should be far more common in society.

As for sado-masochism you might find this interesting http://currentaffairs.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?&id=620461 as it too is a common healthy part of many peoples lives. It can be unethical when done without informed consent but the strict use of safewords etc that many practitioners use means its often far more ethical than people having sex after a few glasses of wine which interferes with decision making and then is not truely free informed consent.

As for smoking, there is a distinct difference there. Nicotene functions as a neurotransmitter improving brain function temporarily. The body eventually stops bothering wasting energy on producing the neurotransmitter when nicotene is available. Hence a biochemical reliance on the intake of nicotene is the source of the addiction. So it is distinctly different from the others.


It's about "our" urge (or "my" urge). I'm not thinking in anybody else when I do that. It's selfish, because I care more about how much I like cross dressing than the consequences and the damage I could do in the people I love.

Something done for the self is not selfish. Just for the self. Perpetual selflessness goes beyond altruism to self destructiveness. To be selfish it must overide the rights or fair share of others.

I like the cookie example.

If someone bakes a batch of cookies for themselves and they eat them all that is fair and good. If they bake the cookies for themselves and their flatmate eats them all that is selfish on the flatmates part. The person who bakes them for themselves is not obligated to share, but if they do choose to do so that is generous.

If the cookies are baked for everyone and someone eats a larger share that is selfish. If someone freely chooses to eat a smaller share so that others can eat more that is selfless and then someone benefiting from that is not being selfish.

So then, how is CDing selfish?


Sure, I have the right to enjoy that. I could even be right if I say I deserve to enjoy it.

I think that is correct.


I wish I had everything, cross dressing whenever I like, a wife proud of his cross dresser husband, and a society that would admire me for my efforts for passing as a real girl. Wouldn't it be nice?.

It's more than nice, some of what you list is fair


By that's not reality.

Some of it can be.


Reality is that I, using my free will, chose my wife and made a promise of being with her until the end of my days. Nobody forced me to.

Indeed. That was your free and fair consent. You also have a right to withdraw that consent at a moments notice, to renegotiate any agreement. So does your wife. It may not fit peoples view of promises but it is a vital fundamental human right.


And I decided, also using my free will, not to tell her because I honestly thought that I would stop.

It seems that there you made an error. You did not consider the possibility that you may not be able to stop in which case for her to give full free informed consent she should have been informed of the potential risk. Thats why even though I too thought I would stop I told my ex about a week into the relationship.


I could be a bigger man and leave this lovely hobby in sacrifice for my loved ones.

You are assuming that is possible. But we do not know the causation of being a CD. Being a TS inolves Genes, Nuron count in the Lymbic Nucleus of the brain and other aspects from birth! Some eveidence suggests that CDs may merely have a milder version of the same condition! Or maybe not. The studies have not been done on CDs yet. But we know many similar neurological variations come in wide degrees of severity so mild-TS should probably exist and would likely result in CDing!


Many other bigger men make bigger sacrifices for their family or for their country. It's just a matter of personal decision.

If it's genetic and neurological than no, no-one does! And it's worth noting that TSs and I expect CDs too are dissproportionately represented amongst the military! So a great many TSs have risked and lost their lives in the defense of their nations, families etc.




I know that the comparisons can be extreme, but here we go again with the beliefs. Sado-masochism might be "normal" for some couples, not for others... A wife finding out about the hidden cross dressing of his husband will definitively hurt her.

Not all pain is bad pain. Healing injuries hurt, antiseptic stings. When racial desegregation ended plenty of white people suffered from having to share with black people. That was a good pain. Same with men having to suffer women in their workplace. And to make it more personal parents havign their sons and daughters dating or marrying outside their race/culture/religion!


That's another difficult one. But it's also a matter of choice.

Not all choices are ethical.


A loving CD would not force others to accept dressing, if it's difficult for their beliefs or for any other reason. This is also a two ways road.

Based on what assumptions?
Lets look at this real-life example of someone I have met. A husband and father had been adopted. He and his family had been somewhat anti-semitic. When he discovered he was really of Russian-Jewish ancestry everyone felt hurt about it. Could he, let alone should he, not force his family to accept that he, and his kids, were Jews? That his wife was married to a Jew?

Because if CDing is even remotely as biological in origin as TS is then that is worth contemplating.

If a son is Gay should they lie and hide that from their parents or is the obligation on the parents to cope with an uncomfortable reality?

Protecting people from pain that they need to go through in order to grow or heal is called in Bhuddism Idiot Compassion. Delaying neccessary pain which in fact will likely worsen the pain when it finally is felt. Whereas easing the neccessary pain and smoothing the process is more genuinely and intelligently compassionate according to bhuddism.

Remember, You're entitled to happiness too!!!!

Sure! But it would be sad that my happiness relies and depends only in cross dressing.[/QUOTE]

But doesn't your UNhappiness result from repressing your crossdressing?

[Stephanie-L]

I partially agree with what Marcie has posted. Cding is a choice. However, the urge, often the very powerful urge, to CD is not a choice. As others here have posted, I have received the ultimatum, and tried to stop for the sake of my marriage. Because of my continuing urges I sought counselling, not to stop CDing, but to deal with it in connection to my marriage. My therapist told me that for me to be truely happy about myself I would probably have to get a divorce. So here I sit, still married because I love my wife and am willing to be unhappy to stay in the marriage. How long will it be before the balance tips and I decide that she is being more selfish than I am in her demand that I not CD? I don't know, but I suspect it will eventually happen. So, one day I will be a happy CDer, but unhappily divorced, unless I can get her to accept, which I expect will make her unhappy too. Nothing worthwhile in life is easy......Stephanie

[kathrynjanos]

Quote:
I could be a bigger man and leave this lovely hobby in sacrifice for my loved ones.
You are assuming that is possible. But we do not know the causation of being a CD. Being a TS inolves Genes, Nuron count in the Lymbic Nucleus of the brain and other aspects from birth! Some eveidence suggests that CDs may merely have a milder version of the same condition! Or maybe not. The studies have not been done on CDs yet. But we know many similar neurological variations come in wide degrees of severity so mild-TS should probably exist and would likely result in CDing!

I'm in complete agreement with my Batty friend above - Crossdressing is typically not something you can suppress. If you just do it for kicks like for Rocky Horror, obviously, but if your SO can't understand doing that, then she should probably consider having that stick removed surgically from her ass. The Puritans largely died out for a good reason.

If, on the other hand, you do it because of some urge, well, sorry, that's a life-long condition. I know, it sucks in some ways because of situations like this, but really, if someone can't accept every major aspect of you, are they worth that much angst? Even if you stay with them, just don't let it get to you.

Anyway, she's right - Could you give it up? I guess with the best of efforts and constant thought training, you could probably stop, but the desire would never go away.

[battybattybats]

I partially agree with what Marcie has posted. Cding is a choice. However, the urge, often the very powerful urge, to CD is not a choice.

Just as for example eating is a choice but the urge to eat is not a choice. But we do not have the capacity to choose not to eat without the consequence of starving to death (or for the pedantic who suggest a liquid diet of losing all our teeth at the least)

So is CDing like eating? After all the consequence on not CDing appears to be stress, anger, depression, anxiety and suicide.

Or is it like breathing, a reflex that one must conciously fight against to stop?

Hmm perhaps it is more like sleeping... again a reflex that you must conciously fight to supresss but if you go for long without sleep then you also get many of the same symptoms.

Whereas I've not heard of such symptoms from quitting a sport or other hobby. Are such symptoms also found to the same long-term extent and degree amongst SO's trying to accept a partners CDing?

And consider then that an SO who asks or demands a CD 'quit' is requesting or demanding they suffer long term struggle of will and risk their long-term mental health and perhaps even life for them.


As others here have posted, I have received the ultimatum, and tried to stop for the sake of my marriage. Because of my continuing urges I sought counselling, not to stop CDing, but to deal with it in connection to my marriage.

How has it been considered fairest that you try and quit rather than they try and accept? How was your suffering measured against your wife's? How was the risk to your health measured against any risks to hers coming from her attempting to accept your CDing?


My therapist told me that for me to be truely happy about myself I would probably have to get a divorce. So here I sit, still married because I love my wife and am willing to be unhappy to stay in the marriage.

Is she equally willing to be unhappy to stay in the marriage? Where is the reciprocal self-sacrifice on her part? If she instead tried to accept your cDing is that as comparable a suffering as your self-denial is?


How long will it be before the balance tips and I decide that she is being more selfish than I am in her demand that I not CD? I don't know, but I suspect it will eventually happen.

Surely that cannot be time dependant if your being honest in your appraisal? It either is unfair now or fair now. If its unfair now and you are merely waiting till your capacity to tolerate such unfairness wears out then surely trying to do something about the situation before it gets to that point would be fairer on everyone, especially as you would be more able to go slowly at a pace she can handle when you still have nore resiliance left at your disposal?


So, one day I will be a happy CDer, but unhappily divorced, unless I can get her to accept, which I expect will make her unhappy too. Nothing worthwhile in life is easy......Stephanie

Remaining repressed = long-term unhappiness. Being divorced may = long term unhappiness and will equal short term unhappiness. Her attempted acceptance will equal short term unhappiness but unless it results in divorce which is possible then what is the risk of it resulting in long-term unhappiness?

If your making a gamble its worth understanding the possibilities and trying to estimate the odds. And if she makes a choice which is a gamble, as any ultimatum is, is it done with all the requisite information? Did she understand the possible and probable long-term consequences of her demand upon your health? Was she willingly risking your life?

Was her decision informed or uninformed? Based on data or wishful thinking or worse on willfull ignorance?

[trisha59]

I
For my part, I strongly believe it is not a choice. My unscientific reasons for believing this:
* The vast majority of cross dressers have memories of the desire for or actions in cross dressing at an early age.
* I've yet to hear of any CDer who successfully repressed their desire to crossdress on a permanent basis. Over and over again we hear of CDers who purge, only to come back and crossdress again.
* I have heard of zillions of CDers whose lives were horribly affected due to crossdressing.
* One small study of brain structures in transexual people noted the structures of their brains did not match the gender of their outward appearance, but that of the opposite gender.

Julie: This is one of the best things I have read on this I agree with you 100%

[Michelia]

Life changes, people change, you have to be willing to give and take somewhat in every relationship. Anyone giving you an ultimatum may down the road do the same because you are too fat, too sick, or too depressed.

In each of the above scenarios each of us could have a breaking point or a limit - but that would be at the end of the rope. Not at the beginning. And Cding has very many levels and points at which compromise can be reached by mutual engagement.

If someone is not willing to meet you at least a quarter of the way, they may not be the person for you.

[DameErrant]

Ok, then I guess someone must have forced you to crossdress at gunpoint.

I never said anything about not having mental anguish, or it not being hard. I said anyone can stop if they make their mind up. Cd-ing is a choice.


CDing is not just something that we do, it is who we are. I can change what I do, but how many more pieces of my soul am I expected to cut out so she does not have to deal with it? From now on, no more!

[Stephanie-L]

Bats, you are right about everything you said. It is terribly unfair of her to ask me to not CD when it hurts me so, and it is also unfair of her not to accept some unhappiness to keep the marriage going. You are also right in that it is really just a matter of when I decide I do not want to put up with this unfairness anymore. However, for a variety of reasons, kids, money, her health, my pride, etc, I am unwilling to dump our marriage in the trash right now. This will probably change in the future, heck, it changes day to day. There are times that if she threatens divorce I would say "Go for it, heres the phone book, find a lawyer", and others when I would walk through fire to keep the marriage together. She has just received some bad news from the doctor so we need to see where things go with that. When I heard the news, I felt bad for her and for me, I felt a bit trapped. I think I will start seeing my therapist again, even though I felt she was pushing divorce a bit hard, maybe she was right. Thanks for your comments, and for everyone here....Stephanie

[Carin's Wife GG]

Bats, you are right about everything you said. It is terribly unfair of her to ask me to not CD when it hurts me so, and it is also unfair of her not to accept some unhappiness to keep the marriage going. You are also right in that it is really just a matter of when I decide I do not want to put up with this unfairness anymore. However, for a variety of reasons, kids, money, her health, my pride, etc, I am unwilling to dump our marriage in the trash right now. This will probably change in the future, heck, it changes day to day. There are times that if she threatens divorce I would say "Go for it, heres the phone book, find a lawyer", and others when I would walk through fire to keep the marriage together. She has just received some bad news from the doctor so we need to see where things go with that. When I heard the news, I felt bad for her and for me, I felt a bit trapped. I think I will start seeing my therapist again, even though I felt she was pushing divorce a bit hard, maybe she was right. Thanks for your comments, and for everyone here....Stephanie

ultimations seem to be about control. Control is about fear. Fear about the unknown, fear about one self, fear about change, just about fear.

Sometimes one person or both have to look at the fear and face it. Sometimes it needs to be one person's call.

Yes I was afraid of my husband being TG. I was more afraid of myself and who I was or was not. When I faced who I was and am I made the call.

That call was utterly painful. We were married 25 years. Seven children and a home. And I made the decison to end that marriage. I had tried for years to *control* this man. While I was, in many ways, out of control.

When I finally handed it over and realized I was never in control of who s/he was and is, I realized, so clearly, that he and I should not be married to each other. He and I should be free to be happy. With ourselves and in the world.

He could not be happy living MY life. I could not be happy thinking I was controling him and not being honest with who I was/am.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for him. And love. We were terifically good parents together. We somehow managed to pass along some good values and suggestions to our children. We worked very hard at this relationship one calls marriage. We worked very hard.

He stuck with *us* through the illnesses and the craziness. I tried to stick with the TG. And yes, we did love one another. And shit, we made some beautiful babies!

But it was time. S/he and I really do deserve happiness and love and peace.

Ultimatums can cost too much. Being honest can cost too. Honesty, true honesty, bring self respect.. Ultimatums certainly do not. With self respect, about who you are, a woman, man, TG/CD/TS. FtM, FtM, gay, bi, lesbian, black or white, comes happiness.

And each of us deserves to be happy.

Happy Valentine's Day.


Louise.

[Stacye Rose]

I have experienced both a supportive spouse, and the "don't ask-don't tell" relationship. In the later case when the Ultimatum came and I refused to give up my "alter-ego"/hobby I was outed to all my friends and family during a bitter and nasty divorce. I basically walked away from my home with my automobile, my waredrobe and what little self-respect I had left to muster. I lost friends I had for decades and have extended family members who I doubt I'll ever speak with again. After five years I have still not recovered financially or professionally nor do I yet have a home of my own again. These things have been difficult and painful. But I was true to myself, and my true friends and family, though small in number they may be have accepted Stacye as a part of me. Maybe a somewhat odd part, but still a part of me.

Now after all that, I find myself in a situation where I have no interest in dressing at all. I have not dressed for some 7 months now. Will I ever dress again? Probably. Could I stop for good? I don't know, I stopped drinking and using drugs 17 years ago and I've managed to make it through that one day at a time. So, I choose to take not dressing the same way-I have no desire or intention of dressing today. That's all I know-it's all I need to know. Whatever happens in the future will happen Insh'allah. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

Just one persons opinion.

[kym]

marcie,(and all of my sisters on here)

if someone had put a gun to my head and forced me to cross dress, then yes i could stop with out a second thought. however, no one put a gun to my head and forced me into this, i was born this way. choosing to cross dress for me is like choosing to breathe, its something that is ingrained in me and many others. For you to come on here and make a statement like that hits close to home because its the very thing my now ex-wife said to me before she decided that a child molester was a better choice than me. Fortunately for me, i have found a woman who is completely understanding and supportive, many others haven't found such a person and have also heard similar comments from those they love and who supposedly loved them. If you haven't lived through what we have then there is no way you could understand why this is not a choice but rather a way of life for a majority of us. and before you say that i'm not a "strong enough" person to admit to a problem , or to try and kick a habit, keep in mind i have lived through the hell of war first hand and seen things that no human should and had very few mental side effects from the experience, which takes a strong character in anyone.

[TGMarla]

Typical controversial thread. Lots of hair-splitting going on. And you know, ol' Marla here hates split ends. But one of the topics of discussion going on here is all about whether we could stop, given the ultimatum.

So....could I stop? Sure, given the mental discipline. There have been people in recorded history that have stared at the sun long enough to blind themselves forever. I'll bet they weren't real happy about that, either. So could I quit? Yeah, and I'd not be real happy about it. In fact, I'd probably grow very resentful towards my wife over it. That is something I don't want in my marriage. I love my wife. I don't want to live the rest of my life without her, either. Any spouse throwing out such an ultimatum probably doesn't realize that to do so would destroy her marriage. I don't want that to happen to mine.

Like I said back when this thread was young, I've been doing this so long, I don't know how not to. So I'm not likely to stop.

[carolinoakland]

It has never worked in my experience. purged in front of the SO to prove my commitment. I was hiding stuff in drawers by the next month. Carol

[raleighbelle]

You can stop anything if you want to bad enough.
It depends on where your priorities lie.

I guess you can stop breathing if you want to bad enough. It depends on where your priorities lie.

For most of us, cross-dressing is part of 'who' we are, not just something we choose to do.

[BeckyAnderson]

I'm coming in a bit late on the thread but my view is simple....I have never given anyone an ultimatum nor have I ever given in to an ultimatum. If anything is to a point of an ultimatum then it's not worth the sacrifice.

[JulieC]

Crossdressing is not a disease or an illness it is part of who I am but not the whole part.

That's what I meant. CDing is part of who we are. We can no more deny the existence of it (and be honest with ourselves) than we can deny the existence of our skin.

The outcome of this; you might be able to not crossdress for years at a time. But eventually, at some point, you will crossdress no matter how hard you fight it. My main reason for believing this aspect of it (as opposed to the biological aspect) is that I know of no CDer, or of any CDer who knows of any CDer, who has ever successfully stopped dressing and remained so.

For my own part, after my second to last purge (the last was to avoid discovery by my then just-beginning girlfriend now wife...wanted to tell her on my own terms, and did), I stopped dressing for about two years. I thought I was done with it. In fact, I was sure of it. Then one day I bought a pair of pantyhose, even though I was actively fighting it in my brain. When I put them on, the inner emotional explosion was astonishingly deep. Words fail me to describe the feelings I had. I knew from that moment on that I'd never again attempt to stop crossdressing.

Fast forward about 15 years...my wife did a 180 in support of my crossdressing. She had been somewhat supportive, then flipped (due in large part to my actions...pink fog stuff), and though no ultimatum was given a warning was sounded; if I didn't stop, she might lose attraction for me. So, I quietly packed up all my femme stuff. She was mad; thought I was purging. I told her I wasn't purging, but it was going out of her sight. In my own mind, I knew I'd continue crossdressing, but I would do so without her involved in any way. I was not going to cut off a portion of me again, and try to suppress crossdressing when I actively knew it would be harmful for me to do so. I just decided not to do so with her involved anymore. Six months later, after many conversations, things slowly turned back around again. My wife is now 100% supportive, and even more supportive than before and swears there will never be a 180 again.

[kathrynjanos]

Crossdressing is not a disease or an illness it is part of who I am but not the whole part.

"Thoughts are the shadows of feelings, always darker, emptier, and simpler. I don't care if they're fake or real, I just thank them for showing up at all. I have black periods. Who does not? But they are part of me; they are not a part of illness, but a part of my being. What am I saying? I have the courage to have them. Four o' clock in the morning. This sucks." - Alkaline Trio - Warbrain (First line courtesy of Nietzsche)

First off, I absolutely love that song, if you're into rock and don't know Alkaline Trio, look it up on YouTube. But that said, I highlighted the particularly relevant part, though really it all is relevant, because I think that's a place we'e all been.

[Jo-Michelle]

I am blessed with a wonderful wife that accepts, understands and helps me. If given an ultimatum, I'm not sure what I would do especially after she accepted it. I think at the very least your spouse needs to give you a good explination as to why the ultimatum. Loyality to your spouse is the most important thing. Crossdresing doesn't cross that line IMO. My wife would certainly rather see me dressed as a women then going out with one.

[Sharon B.]

Been there before, as I can see it now from a different light she used that as an excuse to end the marriage as she had found someone else to be with.
I had tried my best to quit but the stress of the fact that her mother lived with us was to much to bear.
They would go shopping on Saturday's or Sunday or both days and leave me at the house. At the time my wife had some older dresses that she didn't wear but I thought they looked just fine, I would go and buy my own undergarments, I had found some heels that my wife was going to throw out and they fit me fine. One thing lead to another and soon I had a nice collection of woman's attire and was able to keep it in complete view of my wife's things. As for makeup and perfume I would just use my wifes.
I had started to work a lot of overtime to try my best not to dressed as a woman but that didn't help either it only made things worse for my married life.
Sixteen hours plus driving time of 1-1/2 hours of working everyday, this only lead to my wife staying out later everyday. After about three months she agree to meet at a park where she gave me divorced papers as she had then for about a month as she thought I would do something to abuse her. Told her she really never knew me if she thought that would happen.
I moved out got a place of my own woman's attire of my own and have wonder every now and then how she is doing.
I still dress as a woman, have gained some weight that I need to remove and hope that will happen this year as I want to start exercising more, I would like to get the dress size I was a year after my divorce, which would be six dress sizes smaller than I am now.
Crossdressing is an important part of my life. just as for most women who don slacks, sweat shirt and/or flannel shirts are for them or women who are tom-boys.

[Ralph]

When your wife or girl friend tells you to stop dressing or I will leave you can feel your heart drop and to have the family tell you that if you do not stop then do not come around any more.......that has to be very painful.

Those are three different situations you describe - a wife, a girlfriend, other family members. My response to each is different.

With the wife, it should never come to that point: If you kept it hidden from her and she discovered in the middle of the relationship, she has every right to be upset about discovering she married into something she was not prepared for. The burden is on you to either find a compromise you can both live with, try to give it up cold turkey because she is more important to you than the dressing, or say goodbye if the dressing is more important than the wife. If she knew going into the relationship and then decided later that she could not put up with it any more... that's going to be painful no matter what the outcome. In that case, she has to be the one to make the next move - either work out a compromise, or start packing. (in general, anyone who enters into a lifetime commitment believing they can change or "fix" any perceived flaws in the other is doomed to disappointment)

With a girlfriend who has not yet solidified the commitment, you have more flexibility because there are no ugly loose ends to deal with as you would have with a divorce. Both of you have to decide if your relationship is more important than either dressing or not dressing. I keep harping on compromise, because that's what works best for me in conflicts, but your mileage may vary.

Since I'm strictly in the closet (apart from the people who have to live with me - wife and kids) I can't really speak with any authority on the subject of outside relatives. I guess it would depend on how close I am to those people. More distant or rarely-seen relatives would probably get their wish and stop seeing me; for immediate family I'd certainly stop dressing *around them* if it makes them uncomfortable, but what I do in the privacy of my own home isn't their business. I suppose if, say, my mother or a brother or sister demanded that I give it up entirely or stop seeing them, I'd try to have a heart-to-heart talk about how it's a part of me that I can't make go away any more than I can stop breathing; if that's not good enough for them it would be a tearful farewell and a constant hope that they will eventually accept me for who I am.

ralph

[KateSpade83]

Hey people - I faced that ultimatum now and quit CDing because deep down it's utrabad voodoo crap that does bad things to your life. But I kept my clothes - a gigantic colection of stuff... in hopes it will fit a beautiful woman my size 4 to 6 [should be easy to find]!

[Sapphire]

In response to your question "Why is it that they feel that it is so easy to stop?" - I would suggest it is quite simply because most women have no idea of how it feesl to be a transgendered man. There is also a tremendous amount of peer pressure for both men and women to not attempt to cross the gender divide. The extent of the concern that imen feel about this issue is indicated in the number of views of this and similar posts to the forum. While some women may be accepting, even then it may be just a begrudging acceptance with lots of terms and conditions. There is nothing wrong with optimism but it has to be tempered with realism.

[JulieC]

Hey people - I faced that ultimatum now and quit CDing because deep down it's utrabad voodoo crap that does bad things to your life. But I kept my clothes - a gigantic colection of stuff... in hopes it will fit a beautiful woman my size 4 to 6 [should be easy to find]!

I'm curious to see where you will be five years from now.

[kathrynjanos]

I'm curious to see where you will be five years from now.

+1! Unfortunately, that's a very unrealistic statement, and Julie's right, you're pretty much doomed to come crashing back to the reality that you're just in denial of this. But good luck with that! :straightface:

[Ralph]

In the later case when the Ultimatum came and I refused to give up my "alter-ego"/hobby I was outed to all my friends and family during a bitter and nasty divorce. I basically walked away from my home with my automobile, my waredrobe and what little self-respect I had left to muster. I lost friends I had for decades and have extended family members who I doubt I'll ever speak with again. After five years I have still not recovered financially or professionally nor do I yet have a home of my own again.

{shudder} Oh Stacye, that's exactly the nightmare scenario that kept me awake at night when my marriage went through a rough spot. DW never once brought up the dressing, but over other issues (both of us are stubborn control freaks) she threatened divorce a few times. Losing custody is already a foregone conclusion for the father, but I just knew she would prove that I was a "pervert" and unfit to ever see my children again. And then it would be all out in the open, and there goes my life, my family, my job, my friends...

Fortunately we got over it with a lot of counseling at church and we're both the stronger for it, but it could have easily turned out for me as it did for you. I thank God every day that I didn't have to find out how much worse it could have been... I'm sure sorry to hear how hard it was for you.

ralph

[JoAnne Wheeler]

I feel for you Sister ! I was faced with that in 1995 - I tried to honor my spouse's wishes - it lasted for several years - then it came back with an absolute vengence - we all know that we can not and will not ever quit crossdressing, no matter what we promise and no matter how many times we purge - keep this in mind - I didn't and now my spouse and I are on the verge of divorce
Your sister,
JoAnne Wheeler

[kathrynjanos]

{shudder} Oh Stacye, that's exactly the nightmare scenario that kept me awake at night when my marriage went through a rough spot. DW never once brought up the dressing, but over other issues (both of us are stubborn control freaks) she threatened divorce a few times. Losing custody is already a foregone conclusion for the father, but I just knew she would prove that I was a "pervert" and unfit to ever see my children again. And then it would be all out in the open, and there goes my life, my family, my job, my friends...

Fortunately we got over it with a lot of counseling at church and we're both the stronger for it, but it could have easily turned out for me as it did for you. I thank God every day that I didn't have to find out how much worse it could have been... I'm sure sorry to hear how hard it was for you.

ralph

Eeep! That's a terrible way for things to go down. Me? I'd sue for slander or defamation. I know that they typically have to show that something said was false, but I'm sure that you could argue that "pervert" is indeed a false accusation.

[Nicole Erin]

TSSSS...
someone give me an oldtomato and I would tell like this -
Keep aggrivating me about it and I will get really stupid with it, like dressing as John Goodman in drag!

If someone really wanted to leave my life cause of my dressing, I would tell them I will personally hold the door for them.

I am me, and one has 2 choices -
take it, or
leave it.

[Rachel B]

I think people ought to get a more open-minded view on things, rather than the "typical" seeing it only from one perspective (mainly the crossdressers :doh:)

Self-confidence, self-respect, in fact anything that begins with the word SELF refers to the individual, and does NOT include, nor will it ever involve, anyone else. So NO-ONE can take away your self-(fill in the missing blank) but YOU! Just as NO-ONE can give you your self-blah-de-blah but YOU!

An ultimatum is a gun to your head. So look at it another way, would you kill your dog if someone told you to? Would you jump off a building if someone told you to? Just because they dont approve of it! Well WOULD YA?

Another thing......If you can stop crossdressing the answer my friend is simple, YOU have a FETISH and are a FETISHIST! So enjoy your FETISHISM (sheesh, sound like I've had a bottle of J&B, hmmm, J&B :daydreaming:) and jump on a different bandwagon. For the rest of us, WE are CROSSDRESSERS, who dress because we have a compunction to do so. Science has discovered a gene which could be the control for this, a gene which non-CD's do not have. So the answer may be there, or it may lay somewhere else.

Pity they havent found a gene which gives some of us better dress sense, maybe a lot of the issues we have would disappear then? :evilbegon:

I have often thought about what I'd do if I were given an ultimatum, and you know what? I'd shoot the dog :eek::dh::devil:

Seriously, I'd throw an equally ridiculous ultimatum straight back.......Something like, "I'll stop when you lop off your right leg and allow me to call you Stumpy when we're having sex!"

My :2c:
Rach:battingeyelashes:

[battybattybats]

Another thing......If you can stop crossdressing the answer my friend is simple, YOU have a FETISH and are a FETISHIST! So enjoy your FETISHISM (sheesh, sound like I've had a bottle of J&B, hmmm, J&B :daydreaming:) and jump on a different bandwagon.

Technically not so. A fetish isn't a kink. A kink is something sexual one enjoys occassionally that is different. A sexual fetish is something someone requires for sexual fullfillment, so a sexual fetish cannot easilly be given up. Remember the word fetish is not just sexual, its a religious term too as well as both a sexual and non-sexual psychological one, like a security blanket needed to get to sleep etc.


For the rest of us, WE are CROSSDRESSERS, who dress because we have a compunction to do so. Fetishists also have compunctions. Also many repressed parts of the self come out via sex first. being gay isnt just about sex but about love romance and commitment, but it usually shows up in sexual desire first if its been repressed. So we should expect a significant number of sexual dressers will turn out to be mor than just sexual dressers once they gain more self acceptance.


Science has discovered a gene which could be the control for this, a gene which non-CD's do not have.

You are in serious error. The gene was found to be more common in transsexuals than non-transexuals. Not all transsexuals had the gene and plenty of non-transsexuals had the gene. But it is much more conmon amongst transsexuals meaning it is a factor which contributes. Just like the breast cancer gene. You can have that without getting breast cancer and you can get breast cancer without the gene but if you have the breast cancer gene you have about a 10% higher chance that you'll get breast cancer!

Now there are structural female brain architectures like the neuron count of the lymbic nucleus that are much more often found amongst MtF transsexuals and that does support a biological causation being the most common cause of being transsexual, but even that is based on small studies thus far.

These studies have not been done on crossdressers! So we cannot say that they do or do not apply to us too! Neurological variation is common, such as severe and mild autism, so there is a high chance that CDs are mild cases of TS but that is specualtion, an educated guess, a reasonable supposition but its about 10-20 years of science requiring thousands maybe even millions of dollers and many volunteer test subjects including the donating of corpses to science (some of those brain-architecture re****s were based upon autopsies!) away before we can state conclusively that CD is thusly caused!


Pity they havent found a gene which gives some of us better dress sense, maybe a lot of the issues we have would disappear then? :evilbegon:

There is some evidence that IQ is partly inherited, but breast feeding for longer raises the IQ higher than that variation. Learning philosophy is another help as is encouraging questioning learning rather than authoritarian wrote learning... I suggest to you that these are far more important than dress sense as the latter is culturally variable and even subculturally variable so is utterly subjective in its entirety and cannot be considered objective or universal in the slightest. Beyond that individual free expression is a fundamental human right and in fact the most overt use of and therefore projection of that set of rights making individual fashion freedom arguably the very front line of justice fairness and equality. And one cannot judge and criticise let alone restrict the use of that right by others without invalidating your own freedom to such rights and if that is invalidated the founfation principles of the whole system of liberty equality and rights is invalidated!

Meaning that if you dont defend the rights of Goths and Tokyo shopping district fashions and the Fetishists no matter that you don't personally wear that stuff or like it or get it at all, even if you dislike it, then you have no valid claim to any human civil or political rights as all of those depend on equality and liberty and mutual recognition of that state in others!

[LA CINDY LOVE]

TSSSS...
someone give me an oldtomato and I would tell like this -
Keep aggrivating me about it and I will get really stupid with it, like dressing as John Goodman in drag!

If someone really wanted to leave my life cause of my dressing, I would tell them I will personally hold the door for them.

I am me, and one has 2 choices -
take it, or
leave it.
It is so sad to see that many Cd's value there crossdressing more then there family...but what that tells me is they are single and do NOT have a family to value.

Married Cd's who are face with the ultimatum do NOT just turn and walk away from there family they fight back, they try very very hard to keep the family together and do try there very best to stop or cut down on there dressing and at the same time get some counseling....some times it all works out.....and some times it dose not.

But what that shows is they DO value there family more then there crossdressing.


LA CINDY LOVE

[sarahNZ]

In my case she didn't care if it would be easy or not, she just wanted to spare herself the potential embarisment if one of her friends found out.

[NicoleScott]

The topic seems to have morphed from "what to do when faced with an ultimatum" to "is it possible to stop?"
Regarding the ultimatum:
Sometimes people will issue an ultimatum because they want others to make a decision they themselves are unwilling to make.
If you issue an ultimatum and don't like the outcome, blame yourself. You gave a set of choices, and one was taken. Never give someone a choice you don't want them to take.
On the other hand, if you're given choices, take one. You can choose to feel trapped by the ultimatum, or liberated.
Regarding whether you can stop cd-ing:
How many of us have said "I tried, I purged, I got therapy, I made promises...but I'm back", and how many ex-cd's do you know of?

[Satrana]

Some people here seem to think that if an ultimatum is directed at a CD then the answer is to treat the crossdressing. Is it not obvious that the answer is to treat the reasons why a partner would feel the need to resort to an ultimatum?

We need to keep our heads straight. There is nothing wrong in crossdressing, the wrong is in the issuance of an ultimatum. The issue to be addressed is the partner's feelings through some form of counciling.

[battybattybats]

It is so sad to see that many Cd's value there crossdressing more then there family...but what that tells me is they are single and do NOT have a family to value.

I think your missunderstanding the views of others. They are not valueing the CDing more than the family. They are recognising the false dichotomy of the ultimatum. It is an unsolvable question. A load of hooey. It is like being told you must turn the moon into cheese by midnight or your family will be executed. It is a paradox. A devil and the deep.

If someone says: 'which of your loved ones do you want me to torture to death, your wife or your mother' the correct answer is not one or the other but 'None!'.

The very issuing of the ultimatum is itself a betrayal, an abandonment.


Married Cd's who are face with the ultimatum do NOT just turn and walk away from there family they fight back, they try very very hard to keep the family together and do try there very best to stop or cut down on there dressing and at the same time get some counseling....some times it all works out.....and some times it dose not.

We cant assume all married CDs are the same just as we can't assume all SO's are the same. As has been pointed out many disabled people are abandoned by their spouses.


But what that shows is they DO value there family more then there crossdressing.

By that reasoning the existence of the Ultimatum shows then that the SO does not value their family more than their issues with their husbands CDing!

In which case a CD who does walk away is at worst, at absolute worst in that case only as bad as the SO who issued the Ultimatum!!!

[gwen cd]

This is becoming a very interesting and heated debate!

I personly think it lies with the indiviual how they feel about it.
For some painted toe nails is enough to satisfy the inner woman.
for some they are not happy without going the whole way.
some dress once a month, some all day every day.:day dreaming:

I don't think that if your S.O. or any wanted to put a stop to it they would not be able to as the yearning lies beneath.
You could just hide it from them like many do.::o

The most important person in your life is yourself....:D
So I say NO. I would not stop, maby cut down to a certain degree but not stop.........:eek:

[Omjessi]

In my honest opinion, if my SO (pretty much my wife) told me quit dressing up or I'll leave, I believe that I would continue behind her back. I really don't think I could ever find a woman like her ever again and she is the mother of my child, so her leaving would most likely detroy me completely, but her giving me an ultimatum is her saying that she's already come to terms with leaving. That's as much deception as cross-dressing behind her back, though I think a bit more emotionally damaging. If she can seperate from me to ask me that question, then we already need help.

[trisha59]

try there very best to stop or cut down on there dressing and at the same time get some counseling LA CINDY LOVE
How can you counsel someone when there is nothing wrong?



Some people here seem to think that if an ultimatum is directed at a CD then the answer is to treat the crossdressing. Is it not obvious that the answer is to treat the reasons why a partner would feel the need to resort to an ultimatum?

We need to keep our heads straight. There is nothing wrong in crossdressing, the wrong is in the issuance of an ultimatum. The issue to be addressed is the partner's feelings through some form of counciling.

Now in this instance there is something to counsel. Why someone in a committed relationship would issue a ultimatum