Starting to wonder about being TG, not just CD...

[kathrynjanos]

Mods: Please don't move this thread, I posted this here because I specifically wanted CD opinions. If TGs post here, that's fine and welcome, but I wanted those who aren't this far along to speak first.

Ok, so I'm right now just a crossdresser. Originally, I hadn't been at all interested in being even femme outside of clothing, but then I started thinking about growing out my hair (which I'm working on now), and then added on makeup. The last few days my gf has even calmed down and come into line about it, so I think I'm getting all my ducks in a row as far as my life accommodating this goes.

I've even got a tentative trip out and about planned for spring, assuming I find my pants and a good shirt, plus maybe a dress. I've started to wear makeup every day in some small way just to feel that there is some direct connection to femme for me.

I still identify in many ways as male, but in almost as many ways as female. More than anything else, I want to see my body as female, that is, I try to look feminine while remaining masculine enough not to raise eyebrows, especially among people who know my family. Moreover, I even look in the mirror and wonder what it'd be like to see breasts, curves, and a less pronounced area between the legs. I imagine it, and I imagine it'd be nice.

I know that I'm moving very quickly here, now that I'm open about this. I've gone from telling my girlfriend to my best friend to many friends to people I met four hours earlier! All in the space of six months!

But if I took away the "what people think" aspect of things, and the "no going back" worries, I really think I could go for it. That's not to say I'd do it tomorrow. Just... really consider it an option.

So, opinions?

[dilane]

Hi Kathryn,

You might be getting a little bit ahead of yourself. Labels are very nice, there are millions of them and tons of people who will debate you to death about the nuances of meaning among the various locations in the multi-dimensional TV/TG/TS spectrum, but...

Take it one step at a time. Learn makeup, learn how to modify your body or dress to give you the shape you want. Then get out, if you need to, first to safe or anonymous places, and then if you feel the need, out and about in the real world...

What I'm saying is you should try before you buy, in other words, see what it's like to be a woman. See if you want to present as one, in the real world, not just the mirror or camera lens. It's best to gradually explore and stretch your gender presentation, and learn your own limits and comfort zones first.

Certainly, if you ever get to the point where you think about transitioning, you should be as passable as possible (no beard, decent body, and good voice) first, unless you are completely unconcerned about what others think of you, or it's a very tough road.

Good luck,

Diane

[wendiwoman]

For most of my life, I had considered myself a crossdresser. In hindsight, it makes sense, since all I had ever done was to dress up at home, at night, in the dark. But once I began to find the courage to go out, to socialize, to make friends, to experience the world while presenting as female, I came to realize that I was much more than a crossdresser. I now present as female most of the time, and refer to myself as TG, although I have little desire for a full (surgical) transition. Would I ever wear boy clothes again if certain personal issues didn't compel it? I doubt it. I just enjoy the way I look in female clothes, and I enjoy the way society and I interact.

I like the label TG because it is ambiguous. I suggest that you just enjoy your life and your gender journey, and don't worry about labeling yourself.

Wendi

[Hope]

I definitely fit the classical idea of a TG (if there is such a thing) of believing that I was clearly, obviously, absolutely, born in the wrong body. I have know this since I was really aware of gender. While I seriously doubt I would ever do any sort of surgical transition, if it were somehow possible to go back and hit the reset button and start over in the right body I would do it every time and without hesitation.

That said - my cross-dressing is relatively limited (much more than I would like) because of social and professional issues. I would LOVE to present, and be accepted as a woman. No doubt about it. But the reality of that happening is almost 0. I am getting to a point where I care less about being read, but if I were to go out with flawless make up, hair, and the best mannerisms possible, I would still be seen as a guy in a dress. I'm 6'2," I have broad shoulders and I sing bass. there is almost no time in my life where I will be perceived and be able to interact in the way I understand myself... So I keep it largely to myself.

I'm a pretty femme guy, I am a bit of a clothes horse (to the extent my salary will allow - no bespoke for me), I take care of my skin and my hair (which is long), I don't own male underwear, I carry a purse most of the time, my toe nails are always painted - but I am a guy. Sadly.

So I almost don't cross-dress at all (though I do describe myself as a cross dresser), certainly not really outside of my home... but I definitely think of myself as TG...

[battybattybats]

Folks I think your confusing TS Trassexual with TG Transgender.

Transsexual refers to people whose internal Gender Identity is strongly opposite to their birth anatomy and who often need to change their body to match their Gender Identity.

Transgender is an umbrella term covering all groups whose gender Identity and/or gender expression does not match the standard birth anatomy associated gender stereotypes.

All CDs are Transgender. All Transsexuals are Transgender. (though some dispute the validity of Transgender as a concept because they dont want to be labeleed as similar to CDs Drag Queens etc and vice versa). Genderqueers/Genderfree Andogynous people and many more are all by definition Transgender.

So your already Transgender! Whether you may be a different kind other than just a crossdresser though and may be transsexual is posible.

[Sammy777]

Damn you beat me to it Batty, lol

Yes basically what she said above :iagree:

Don't worry though, it seems a lot of people, even some on here, sometimes forget that the term Transgender covers pretty much everybody outside of the "normal" boy likes girl & girl likes boy & are all OK with group, lol.

ADDED PS:
Kathryn the line or distance between being a crossdresser & someone who is transsexual varies & is as different from one person to the next as your personality is.

You can have a male mind & be a crossdresser.
You can have an androgynous mind [middle of road or 1/2M & 1/2F mind] & still be a crossdresser.
You can have a female mind & be a transsexual.
You could be a crossdresser with TS tendencies.

I could go on & on with this.

But the fact is that you are the only one that can find your middle ground, your happy place & once you do that, then if you want you can label [or call] yourself whatever you want at that point.

Short version: Be happy with yourself & forget the labels.

[Jonianne]

.......I posted this here because I specifically wanted CD opinions.......

Hi Kathryn, as a CD'er my self, I found that venturing out confirmed for me that I have no desire to become TS. I identify with females in a lot of ways, as you do, but not "as" a female. Make sure that it's not just the "pink fog" (that we all get as CD'ers) before you go too fast. I think for some of us, as we settle into self-acceptance of our femme side, we also settle into an acceptance of our male side and are happy to have a balance that fits us perfectly.

[Tamera]

Kathryn,
Wherever you are in the Transgender Family Tree, it is not unusual to move to another branch so to speak.

If you really want to become as close to female as you can. Investigate before you invest. It will take about $50,000 to $100,000 to become
"The Girl". By the time you go through the surgeries, Psychiatrist, Hormones, Electroysis, Laser, FFS if needed, BA and SRS.

Then once you have actually gone through this. Remember there is no turning back.

Usually to go this far its done without anytype of relationship. For most of the time if you are in a relationship there are boundaries that cannot be crossed.

Good Luck with the road you choose and I am sure we all will support you.
Hugs,
Tamera

[jillleanne]

Thank you Baty for clarifying that for others. I've been preaching that for years with little success; some, but little. It cannot be repeated enough.
As for who/what one is? If one is label hunting or unless you have become gender enhanced/transgendered strictly for scientific study purposes, one will redefine/relabel themselves many times in their lifetime but will not understand that statement until they actually do change phases or stages of gender enhancement/transgender. Some will never change phases, most will. That subject has been flogged to death so we will not go there.

[JoAnne Wheeler]

Go slow and don't make any rash decisions

JoAnne Wheeler

[kathrynjanos]

Hi Kathryn,

You might be getting a little bit ahead of yourself. Labels are very nice, there are millions of them and tons of people who will debate you to death about the nuances of meaning among the various locations in the multi-dimensional TV/TG/TS spectrum, but...

Take it one step at a time. Learn makeup, learn how to modify your body or dress to give you the shape you want. Then get out, if you need to, first to safe or anonymous places, and then if you feel the need, out and about in the real world...

What I'm saying is you should try before you buy, in other words, see what it's like to be a woman. See if you want to present as one, in the real world, not just the mirror or camera lens. It's best to gradually explore and stretch your gender presentation, and learn your own limits and comfort zones first.

Certainly, if you ever get to the point where you think about transitioning, you should be as passable as possible (no beard, decent body, and good voice) first, unless you are completely unconcerned about what others think of you, or it's a very tough road.

Good luck,

Diane

Diane,

Thanks for your suggestions. It's pretty much where I sit right now (not to say you're just stating the obvious, or anything!). I am planning on finishing learning makeup, working on hiding my jawline and things like that, I'll probably need a wig. Once I get all that stuff down, I'll pick out a bunch of my best GG friends, including my gf, and we'll skip on down to the Village. In other words, I'll be trying as hard as I can to pass. I'm studying walking and mannerisms and all that.

Yes, I know, I'll learn lessons for a bit, and I'll probably never pass 100%, if just because of my height. But hey, if I can pass the passing glance test, that will be a huge victory for me. Anyway, I'm getting off the point. Yes, I want to try to be as legit as possible, and I'm aware that I need to go step by step.


For most of my life, I had considered myself a crossdresser. In hindsight, it makes sense, since all I had ever done was to dress up at home, at night, in the dark. But once I began to find the courage to go out, to socialize, to make friends, to experience the world while presenting as female, I came to realize that I was much more than a crossdresser. I now present as female most of the time, and refer to myself as TG, although I have little desire for a full (surgical) transition. Would I ever wear boy clothes again if certain personal issues didn't compel it? I doubt it. I just enjoy the way I look in female clothes, and I enjoy the way society and I interact.

I like the label TG because it is ambiguous. I suggest that you just enjoy your life and your gender journey, and don't worry about labeling yourself.

Wendi

Wendi, I'm not worried about the labels. I just thought I was applying the right one for the point of discussion. I am honestly less worried about presenting as female than I am in having a female body. Go figure what that means.


I definitely fit the classical idea of a TG (if there is such a thing) of believing that I was clearly, obviously, absolutely, born in the wrong body. I have know this since I was really aware of gender. While I seriously doubt I would ever do any sort of surgical transition, if it were somehow possible to go back and hit the reset button and start over in the right body I would do it every time and without hesitation.

That said - my cross-dressing is relatively limited (much more than I would like) because of social and professional issues. I would LOVE to present, and be accepted as a woman. No doubt about it. But the reality of that happening is almost 0. I am getting to a point where I care less about being read, but if I were to go out with flawless make up, hair, and the best mannerisms possible, I would still be seen as a guy in a dress. I'm 6'2," I have broad shoulders and I sing bass. there is almost no time in my life where I will be perceived and be able to interact in the way I understand myself... So I keep it largely to myself.

I'm a pretty femme guy, I am a bit of a clothes horse (to the extent my salary will allow - no bespoke for me), I take care of my skin and my hair (which is long), I don't own male underwear, I carry a purse most of the time, my toe nails are always painted - but I am a guy. Sadly.

So I almost don't cross-dress at all (though I do describe myself as a cross dresser), certainly not really outside of my home... but I definitely think of myself as TG...

I'm a bit of an oddity in this matter. I never thought I was "born in the wrong body" or ran around insisting I was a girl as a child. I've had an urge here and there to try on my sister's shoes or put on a little tiara once in a while, but I just thought I was playing around, even though I thought it felt so much better to wear something like that. One thing that caught my attention though was when I would consider my body. I ALWAYS felt that I wanted a more feminine figure. Even getting in shape I wanted just a nice flat stomach, toned arms, and long shapely legs. I just knew I couldn't get curves like I'd want.

I thought that I would never want a surgical option just a few weeks ago, even, but I have been thinking seriously about it over the last month or so. Initially, it was just to make sure I wasn't discounting any options so that I could approach this objectively. Well, in as much as you can be objective about these kinds of things. My updated view is now "Maybe." Not that I don't want to be female, I'm just concerned about some of the issues that come with it, namely, the permanence. If you have regrets then, it's too late.

But that's the crux of it all. I want a feminine body. Male bodies are just ugly if you ask me. The more you get to what many women want in a man, the worse it looks to me. That feeling I've always had and have never been more sure about. But at least right now, if I have to live as a male, I won't die or anything, I just would be happier as a female.


Folks I think your confusing TS Trassexual with TG Transgender.

Transsexual refers to people whose internal Gender Identity is strongly opposite to their birth anatomy and who often need to change their body to match their Gender Identity.

Transgender is an umbrella term covering all groups whose gender Identity and/or gender expression does not match the standard birth anatomy associated gender stereotypes.

All CDs are Transgender. All Transsexuals are Transgender. (though some dispute the validity of Transgender as a concept because they dont want to be labeleed as similar to CDs Drag Queens etc and vice versa). Genderqueers/Genderfree Andogynous people and many more are all by definition Transgender.

So your already Transgender! Whether you may be a different kind other than just a crossdresser though and may be transsexual is posible.

Thanks for the clarification. Though people understand what I meant, it does help to be more specific.


ADDED PS:
Kathryn the line or distance between being a crossdresser & someone who is transsexual varies & is as different from one person to the next as your personality is.

You can have a male mind & be a crossdresser.
You can have an androgynous mind [middle of road or 1/2M & 1/2F mind] & still be a crossdresser.
You can have a female mind & be a transsexual.
You could be a crossdresser with TS tendencies.

I could go on & on with this.

But the fact is that you are the only one that can find your middle ground, your happy place & once you do that, then if you want you can label [or call] yourself whatever you want at that point.

Short version: Be happy with yourself & forget the labels.

I keep testing as androgynous, but in the past year I've consistently moved to testing a bit more female. I don't know if I'm being more honest or really moving that way. Time will tell. You're right though, labels are unimportant. If, in the end, I went and did a full SRS, I would acknowledge being a TS, but want to be identified as a woman. But that's just if we're talking about labels.


Hi Kathryn, as a CD'er my self, I found that venturing out confirmed for me that I have no desire to become TS. I identify with females in a lot of ways, as you do, but not "as" a female. Make sure that it's not just the "pink fog" (that we all get as CD'ers) before you go too fast. I think for some of us, as we settle into self-acceptance of our femme side, we also settle into an acceptance of our male side and are happy to have a balance that fits us perfectly.

Don't worry, I'm not booking a trip to Thailand tomorrow. In fact, I'm too cautious for my own good. But starting on that decisive journey I am ready to do. Once I get a job with health coverage again, I will seek a counselor/therapist/psychiatrist/whatever to discuss this. Hopefully by that time I'll have some clothes and will be able to present to her (I can deal with male therapists, but it's a very selective thing and I can't afford the money to take four sessions to get used to someone). But I want to dive into trying to make this decision and understand myself before I get to a point of no return.


Kathryn, I'd suggest that for the time being you go along with the classic definition of transsexual - if you have to ask, you aren't.

Keep on crossdressing and enjoy it. It will work itself out over a year or two as things become clearer. Remember, this is not a slippery slope, more an uphill struggle, and none of the steps are inevitable. Some of us are even seasonally variable in our crossdressing: on in winter, off in summer; on at Hallowe'en, off at Christmas; on on Saturday nights, off on Monday mornings; on and on and on in the pink fog...

Well, that's my thing. I'm not sure if that qualifies. One thing is for sure: If I have to ask, I am far from having made any conclusions! I'm just bouncing this off of you ladies here for your opinions and whatever "facts" apply to this kind of decision and distinction. Also, to see if something I say here makes someone jump up and scream out "classic signs!!!"


Kathryn,
Wherever you are in the Transgender Family Tree, it is not unusual to move to another branch so to speak.

If you really want to become as close to female as you can. Investigate before you invest. It will take about $50,000 to $100,000 to become
"The Girl". By the time you go through the surgeries, Psychiatrist, Hormones, Electroysis, Laser, FFS if needed, BA and SRS.

Then once you have actually gone through this. Remember there is no turning back.

Usually to go this far its done without anytype of relationship. For most of the time if you are in a relationship there are boundaries that cannot be crossed.

Good Luck with the road you choose and I am sure we all will support you.
Hugs,
Tamera

Thanks Tamera. I know, I'm aware of some of the costs involved. My first stop on the train is to go to a psychiatrist/therapist/whatever and just try to hash out with them if this is something I can handle (more than just something I want). Then, if I go ahead and find that I am willing to start down that road, I will determine from there what the next step is. Hormones can have irreversible effects just as much as SRS can, so I'd need to determine what is most appropriate for me. Of course, if I've gone that far, I doubt that "going back" is a consideration anymore.

I would probably start with hair management, and getting rid of leg, chest, and facial hair would be my priorities. Next, it would probably be best to work on some sort of facial corrections if I feel I still need it. I definitely need a nose job! :heehee:

From there, I would consult experts and T-girls to decide about whether to go with hormones first or BA. Probably hormones, see what I get out of nature's work, then go to the BA. Finally, I would make the last step of SRS.

It is my intention that if my girlfriend wishes to remain with me, I will work with her to make sure that she is comfortable as long as possible and strike compromises. The end may be the same, but I figure if I give her enough time, she'll get used to it.

I don't know too much about where I'm going from here, but I will get a handle on it.

[marla01]

As others mentioned, I would step away from the labels. Instead, I'd be looking at how I wanted to live my life, and what types of plastic surgery (if any) and other body changes I want to do. The labels are not important, what is important is what you do with your life.

And this is not an either/or decision. There are a huge number of options as to how you want to construct and live your life. More options than there are labels.

So figure out how you want to live your life, not what label you should be wearing.

Marla