Starting to wonder about being TS, not just CD...

[kathrynjanos]

Ok, so, I posted another thread into the CD forum, specifically because I wanted to get some separate opinions from the CD population before consulting with you all here. That thread can be found here:

Starting to wonder about being TG, not just CD... (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101159)

From the original thread:


Ok, so I'm right now just a crossdresser. Originally, I hadn't been at all interested in being even femme outside of clothing, but then I started thinking about growing out my hair (which I'm working on now), and then added on makeup. The last few days my gf has even calmed down and come into line about it, so I think I'm getting all my ducks in a row as far as my life accommodating this goes.

I've even got a tentative trip out and about planned for spring, assuming I find my pants and a good shirt, plus maybe a dress. I've started to wear makeup every day in some small way just to feel that there is some direct connection to femme for me.

I still identify in many ways as male, but in almost as many ways as female. More than anything else, I want to see my body as female, that is, I try to look feminine while remaining masculine enough not to raise eyebrows, especially among people who know my family. Moreover, I even look in the mirror and wonder what it'd be like to see breasts, curves, and a less pronounced area between the legs. I imagine it, and I imagine it'd be nice.

I know that I'm moving very quickly here, now that I'm open about this. I've gone from telling my girlfriend to my best friend to many friends to people I met four hours earlier! All in the space of six months!

But if I took away the "what people think" aspect of things, and the "no going back" worries, I really think I could go for it. That's not to say I'd do it tomorrow. Just... really consider it an option.

So, opinions?

So, ignoring the debate about the proper label and all that in that thread, I'd like your opinions now.

For some clarification, here's some quotes from a further post in that thread:


I'm a bit of an oddity in this matter. I never thought I was "born in the wrong body" or ran around insisting I was a girl as a child. I've had an urge here and there to try on my sister's shoes or put on a little tiara once in a while, but I just thought I was playing around, even though I thought it felt so much better to wear something like that. One thing that caught my attention though was when I would consider my body. I ALWAYS felt that I wanted a more feminine figure. Even getting in shape I wanted just a nice flat stomach, toned arms, and long shapely legs. I just knew I couldn't get curves like I'd want.

I thought that I would never want a surgical option just a few weeks ago, even, but I have been thinking seriously about it over the last month or so. Initially, it was just to make sure I wasn't discounting any options so that I could approach this objectively. Well, in as much as you can be objective about these kinds of things. My updated view is now "Maybe." Not that I don't want to be female, I'm just concerned about some of the issues that come with it, namely, the permanence. If you have regrets then, it's too late.

But that's the crux of it all. I want a feminine body. Male bodies are just ugly if you ask me. The more you get to what many women want in a man, the worse it looks to me. That feeling I've always had and have never been more sure about. But at least right now, if I have to live as a male, I won't die or anything, I just would be happier as a female.

-----------

Well, that's my thing. I'm not sure if that qualifies. One thing is for sure: If I have to ask, I am far from having made any conclusions! I'm just bouncing this off of you ladies here for your opinions and whatever "facts" apply to this kind of decision and distinction. Also, to see if something I say here makes someone jump up and scream out "classic signs!!!"

IN ESSENCE (TO SUM UP): I do not sit around at night debating whether or not to hack off my penis. I do not feel I am POSITIVELY 100% a girl. I know that I need to see a counselor at the very least to help determine if I would be better off going down that road, and that final decision is a long way off before I even start on any permanent bodily changes.

Whereas most people ask these kinds of questions because they are uncertain, I tend to ask these kinds of questions because I am looking for some sort of affirmation of what I already know somewhere to be true. I am not stating that I know where this is going, at least not consciously, I'm just saying that this kind of questioning for me tends to be something deep inside working its way forward.

So, any opinions? Don't worry, I'm not going to take your opinion and book a flight to Thailand. This is just me seeking your thoughts.

[Jessinthesprings]

You deffinatly have some sort GID. To what degree I cannot say, and I do not think anyone can say but you. You might try living full time as a test and you most deffinatly need to seek the help of a professional. It is not unheard of for a transexual to identify as CD for years. My former group leader was that way. Even promised her wife that she was "Just a CD".

[kathrynjanos]

You deffinatly have some sort GID. To what degree I cannot say, and I do not think anyone can say but you. You might try living full time as a test and you most deffinatly need to seek the help of a professional. It is not unheard of for a transexual to identify as CD for years. My former group leader was that way. Even promised her wife that she was "Just a CD".

I promised my gf that I was and wanted to continue to be just a guy who likes to do this privately and occasionally. As I said above, I didn't even think I wanted to do makeup. But obviously, it's becoming a much more significant issue.

Just in the last few days, she's started to come back around, which is helping. I hate to think of what her response will be if I tell her "Hey honey, I think I'd like to be a woman." Heh, this is gonna be interesting. :eek:

[Jessinthesprings]

She's already accepted your dressing so that is a step forward. However, she may have an issue with being lesbian. I say take this slow and discover exactly who you are before you risk losing her.

[MelissaSue]

Hi, Kathryn!

Except for a few "relationship" differences (I'm married), I could swear your comments are excerpts from my diary. I'm already seeing therapists, and one of them recommended that I read a book entitled "True Selves" by Mildred Brown. I just started it, so I can't give you a full review yet, but I understand that it is one of the better published works on the subject. Reading it might help set the stage for your initial discussions with a therapist.

Feel free to PM me if you get the book and want to discuss any parts of it.

-Melissa

[Karen564]

Hi kathryn,
I see you have a dilemma on your hands, you seek the answers to what you are, but only YOU know what you are.

I would definitely find a good Therapist experienced in TG counselling, they wont necessarily tell you what you are either right away, but guide you through your feelings so you both can figure it out, but the decision to take it further is yours and only yours to make, it has to come from the heart and soul for no matter which way to live as a man or a woman, or maybe both, the rest of your life.
It's one thing to fantasize being a woman, but another actually being a woman 24/7.
I would never recommend anyone changing their gender unless they have had a deep desire burning and eating at their soul to be what they have always known from an early age.
Most of us here have lived with this eating at us for as long as we can remember, but have masked and hid it very well And fought it off for many, many years, until we just couldn't fight it anymore, because the desire to be the true person we really are inside became overwhelming for us to stop, so some of us have decided to do something about it, there are others that have felt no way out, and did the unthinkable and ended it in a tragic way.

I'll give you a very small glimpse into how I felt, so maybe relate to it, or maybe not, but you can use it to compare it to your feelings. And I did my best to keep it short..because knowone needs to read a book on my life.

I for one, have ALWAYS felt wrong in my body for as long as I could remember, and it's really very hard to explain how I really felt in words here, but it's something I had known deep in my heart & soul, and this happened Way before I reached puberty, I couldn't even tell you how many times I cried my self to sleep and asking GOD why he made me this way, and why he was so cruel doing this to me, and the countless times I would pray to him every night to turn me into a girl while I slept, so I could wake up and finally feel right about myself for once, then I'd say OK, lets make a deal, just for a little while then, and if I'm not a good girl you can change me right back...

Well, my prayers never got answered unfortunately, but I kept hoping & praying it would, but before you know it, the years pass one by one, and we perfect our ways to hide our true feelings from the people we love the most because were scared. and I'm sure many of us have been caught dressing by someone in their family when they were very young, I did, once by my Mom, and another time by my Sister, and there was hell to pay for that back then, so I was too scared to say my true feelings went far deeper than just dressing up, like OMG, I would of been locked up for sure, and throw away the key for good.

When the girls around me hit puberty, and started blossoming in all the right places, I felt so cheated, and was experiencing severe depression about then, I just knew I should of been blossoming too, but couldn't because I'm stuck in this wrong body..

After my puberty, when I became more aware of my sexual feelings, I never outwardly expressed any feelings towards another male, that would be considered Gay, and never felt I was a homosexual, I was encouraged to go with girls, and so I did, and with many at that, but it always felt odd with me in some strange way, and when my friends wanted all the details about the aftermath, guy's just being guys I guess, I never really said much to them, Never really felt I was one of the guy's, because that would feel weird telling them, I think because it seemed downgrading to the girl , I had always put myself in the girls place & wouldn't want some guy talking about about me in that way.
And I never had sex with a girl like any regular boy I think, unless all boy's fantasize They were the girl having sex with the boy, so I had aways wanted all the girl parts, and didn't like my body at all, it just felt so very wrong to me, and every time I laid next to a girl, just looking at their whole naked body, touching their soft skin everywhere and smelling their scents down below, all I knew was I wanted to be just like them & that's the body I should of had & been born as, so again, I always had feelings and/or fantasies of being the girl in every sense all the time. The whole body, The smell, the clothes, the friends, the companionship, the love, the emotions, the free spirit, the smiles & laughter, the way their treated, the way they sounded, the way they panted during sex, the orgasm, etc.etc. there was not one aspect I didn't like about being a girl in every sense.
So time moves on,
And many more years pass, living with the dreams a desires to be a girl/woman every single day, it's just unavoidable And unbearable, I couldn't just leave my mind, sure wish I could, and life goes on, before you know it your building a career, getting married, having kids, supporting a family, but the whole time I had that girl in me still, she wouldn't let me forget about her locked away in a shell of a man every single day, many years after the marriage finally suffers because I was so unhappy with myself and other around me, just plain miserable with life in general, until things happen, something changes, for me it was a divorce, and you realize enough is enough, I can't fight it any longer, it wore me down to nothing, so it was time to do something about it, finally and that's what I'm doing right now. And it's a long road to get where I want to go, but we who persevere shall conquer our battles & be in our glory to finally be our true selves, the way it should should of been from the very start..

So what do you think you are now kathryn, CD or TS, some where in between, or still not sure??? Did you see lots of similarities??

But as I said, find a good therapist and go from there.

Karen

[Lisa Golightly]

In all honesty... personally speaking... I think we're too close to the subject to have a valid opinion... That's why we have objective people scrutinize us... and I wouldn't dream of making any assumptions... or affirmations.

All I can say is I just felt out of phase with everything... and there was not a day that would go past where I wouldn't spend more time trying to understand why I felt wrong than actually living... An all consuming obsession, a dibilitating thought process... but it wasn't I want a vagina, and I want it now!!! I was just sad, and I didn't fit, and I just wanted an end to all the stupid doubts in my head. I just needed a life!

[deja true]

I'm no shrink, Kathryn, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last nite!

Seriously, though, K...

Your descriptions of how you feel don't quite match the feelings of the majority of TS girls around here, do they? Granted there is a very wide variety of thought on whether one is this or one is that or one is somewhere in between.

You don't mind your masculine life, but you definitely don't like the mascline body that you are forced to live in. You're very much attracted to the feminine life, but maybe are not so enthralled by it to want to pursue it to the ultimate body mod and live it 24/7.

To me, your description of how you feel sounds as much like a Body Issue, a Body Dysmorphia, as it does a Gender Identity Dysmorphia.

There is no reason you cannot live a feminine life or have a feminine body (either in male or female presentation) without having permanent surgery. Many TS ladies here do just that. Hormones and less drastic surgeries can provide the more feminine body you seem to need while leaving you with your male side (somewhat) intact...

Janus was the two headed god, who represented two sides of the human condition, male and female, confusion and assuredness. We understand to a certain degree. What's more important is that you understand better yourself, as best you can.

Good luck, dear one...:)

[Senban]

This thread is exactly where I am at the moment.

And it's exactly why I'm currently seeing a counsellor/therapist. Well okay, it's actually one of two reasons why I'm seeing a counsellor/therapist but they're related.

Personally I wish it was the case that I could fill out a survey and have someone then say "Ah yes Miss Sen, based upon these results, you fall into category D. Please walk into that room, sit in the blue chair and swallow pills three, four and eight". My life would be so much easier if only that were true. But that's the real problem! As much as we'd all like to have simple boxes to fit into - at least based upon the amount of arguing I see here over labels - the truth is that reality is analogue, not digital.

I swing between a few feelings. Sometimes I know in the bone that I'm female. Other times (more commonly) I feel that I'm female but have male aspects. Occasionally I'll feel male but that's pretty rare and never really fits somehow. But I can certainly trace my feelings of gender confusion back to an event around the age of six or seven (I'm now thirty nine). In fact the event is crystal clear in my mind, even all these years later whereas other memories from my childhood have blurred over time.

But here's the important bit for me. If I only felt female when wearing female clothes, I'd know that I was probably just a crossdresser. But I have the same feelings whatever clothes I wear. I never feel "male", I've never felt male. Can't stand "maleness" at all in fact. And my.....paraphernalia down below is a foreign object that I don't even like to touch if at all possible to avoid it. In fact I always remember driving along with a few friends when we were all about that age and we were comparing our experiences of sex. I remember saying how I thought it wasn't so good and a bit overrated and a friend of mine telling me "you're doing it wrong then lol". But I remember thinking "no, I'm doing it right, it just doesn't feel right".

So I know I'm not simply a guy who likes to wear women's clothing for whatever reason. There's far more to it than that. But right now I'm still working through just what I actually am.

Sound familiar to anyone?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

good luck to you!! you are asking the tough question...

read up online and see if you relate .....there are some wonderful resources out there....tsroadmap, anne vitale essays, all about what you are going through...also books by Donna rose, and jennifer boylan..

the more you think about it, the more you'll go in circles and you can probably get help from a knowledgeable therapist..so you need info...

no one here can say one thing or the other,

you need to be honest with yourself....especially with your therapist (if you get one)

i tried so hard to be a guy, and my life changed when i "accepted" that i just wasnt.. but if you relate well to men and also enjoy your feminine nature, whats wrong with that? nothing!!

[kathrynjanos]

If this makes some sort of sense, I honestly feel that I could well be something of a "tom-boy." As I said, I feel that I want a female body, without letting go of my male interests. It's not that I'm opposed to those interests changing, as I've heard that they often can if you take hormones, but I'm just saying that just because I choose to be female doesn't mean that I can't do those things or be interested in them.

Also, I feel strongly that I am interested solely in women, again, a sentiment that could change as I've heard, but that doesn't make me purely male, in fact, I've often identified with women and lesbians specifically more than men.



Hi kathryn,
I see you have a dilemma on your hands, you seek the answers to what you are, but only YOU know what you are.

So what do you think you are now kathryn, CD or TS, some where in between, or still not sure??? Did you see lots of similarities??

But as I said, find a good therapist and go from there.

Karen

Karen, thank you for taking the time to write that all out. It is helpful to hear others' stories, because I can look for and pick out the similarities. I didn't find many in our stories, really, but I am thinking that perhaps deja true has it right, that I experience a body issue more specifically. Not to say that an SRS wouldn't solve it, just that I do need to be very careful about how to approach it. "In between" is probably the best definition, but again, this can always change. And a counselor or therapist will be in my future.


I'm no shrink, Kathryn, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last nite!

Seriously, though, K...

Your descriptions of how you feel don't quite match the feelings of the majority of TS girls around here, do they? Granted there is a very wide variety of thought on whether one is this or one is that or one is somewhere in between.

To me, your description of how you feel sounds as much like a Body Issue, a Body Dysmorphia, as it does a Gender Identity Dysmorphia.

There is no reason you cannot live a feminine life or have a feminine body (either in male or female presentation) without having permanent surgery. Many TS ladies here do just that. Hormones and less drastic surgeries can provide the more feminine body you seem to need while leaving you with your male side (somewhat) intact...

Good luck, dear one...:)

You hit it pretty well. I am asking because I don't match. But that's my issue, I don't match either perfectly. Nobody does in reality, but there are some common threads.

Oddly, I don't know what I want. But when I think about being female, I can't think of one particular component of that where I go "Eww." When I think about being male, pick one. I don't like the ugly flat blocky bodies, I don't like any penis, and, well, yuck.


This thread is exactly where I am at the moment.

So I know I'm not simply a guy who likes to wear women's clothing for whatever reason. There's far more to it than that. But right now I'm still working through just what I actually am.

Sound familiar to anyone?

Yes, it does sound very familiar. I mean, whereas you mention that male sexuality is not your cup of tea, I am very much feeling that "sexual stimulation is sexual stimulation" but it doesn't mean I like having that appendage below.


i tried so hard to be a guy, and my life changed when i "accepted" that i just wasnt.. but if you relate well to men and also enjoy your feminine nature, whats wrong with that? nothing!!

It's truly a dilemma indeed.

[Kimberley]

My guess is you are still a CD but only you can answer that question. It is about your feelings and nothing less. That said (I know I am going to hear howls over this) faced with a knife would you smile or run?

Okay now that I have upset a whole bunch of people let me clarify. Those who identify as TS, GENERALLY would welcome SRS. That isnt to say everyone can or will go that route, but the playing field levelled, they KNOW the only way to resolve their dysphoria that has interfered with daily functioning to some degree, is to align their sex and gender. As I said, there are many reasons to not have surgery but remove them and I doubt a single TS would walk away.

Just my nickel's worth.

[kathrynjanos]

My guess is you are still a CD but only you can answer that question. It is about your feelings and nothing less. That said (I know I am going to hear howls over this) faced with a knife would you smile or run?

Okay now that I have upset a whole bunch of people let me clarify. Those who identify as TS, GENERALLY would welcome SRS. That isnt to say everyone can or will go that route, but the playing field levelled, they KNOW the only way to resolve their dysphoria that has interfered with daily functioning to some degree, is to align their sex and gender. As I said, there are many reasons to not have surgery but remove them and I doubt a single TS would walk away.

Just my nickel's worth.

Actually, I'm not afraid of SRS, nor do I worry about that commitment. I'm just wondering if it's the RIGHT step. If, after some deep thinking and some consultation, I decide that I would like to go forward with SRS, it would be forward 100%.

[Kimberley]

Fair enough. Some of your original comments still give rise to question at my end. Call them red flags if you will... okay pink ones then...

My BEST suggestion would be to see a good Humanist/Existentialist Therapist who can help you sort this out for yourself. You are the only one who can do so and all the "words of wisdom" you might find here wont really help you figure things out. If you are questioning (which is a good thing) you do need help. If you KNOW you are female, you stll need help to go forward. There is a definite distinction between exploring and knowing your true gender.

Best of luck.
:hugs:
Kimberley

[kathrynjanos]

Fair enough. Some of your original comments still give rise to question at my end. Call them red flags if you will... okay pink ones then...

My BEST suggestion would be to see a good Humanist/Existentialist Therapist who can help you sort this out for yourself. You are the only one who can do so and all the "words of wisdom" you might find here wont really help you figure things out. If you are questioning (which is a good thing) you do need help. If you KNOW you are female, you stll need help to go forward. There is a definite distinction between exploring and knowing your true gender.

Best of luck.
:hugs:
Kimberley

heh, thanks Kimberly, I understand. Don't worry, if I were already 100% committed to this, there'd be a whole different title on my thread. As you noted, it's good to question, because it keeps one from making a bad decision.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

you also have to be really deeply honest with yourself...i found (and sometimes still find) this to be very difficult...i didnt beleive i was a woman...i wanted and wished and dreamed of being a woman...all the time..non stop...non fricking stop.......i still can't beleive all my rationalizations and decisions over the years....all the time knowing that it wasnt going to be real...

around my 44th birthday i screamed OK I GET IT!!!!!!! at the top of my lungs.....

i was very dishonest to myself for a very long time...i think i suffered alot from it and my transition to the free expression of my gender is just me being honest with myself for the first time...

so i think there really is a journey for many girls...
or for others, they are able to be honest with themselves right from the start.....that's a great way to be

also
i saw three therapists and the third time was the charm

also by seeing a good therapist, with real experience in gender issues, you will out yourself to yourself over time....if they are really experienced, they will have a good feel for you fairly quickly, but a good therapist will wait for you to figure your own stuff out....i found it almost fun and i learned alot... at one point i said to my therapist that i wanted to start HRT and she said, "DUH!" ...she has patients that have been with her for many years and havent told a soul!!!

it's (my)your life....which is what makes it so scary

peace :daydreaming:
michele