how to stop cd'ing

[ChastityInFemme]

because of my disability i wouldn't mind finding a way to eliminate the urge to crossdress. i haven't dressed in 3 years because of my accident that left me a C6 quadriplegic. i was in the closet before my accident and don't plan on coming out anytime soon. if my accident hadn't happened, i wouldn't want to stop cd'ing. if i was a paraplegic and could take care of myself and be completely independent, you bet your arse i'd be crossdressing, buying shoes, clothes...oh boy, i'd be in heaven.

i was just reading another thread about hypnosis and i wonder if i could get hypnotysed(sp?) to have my mind turn off my urge to cd until a cure for spinal cord injury comes along? ANY advice will be a great help!

[Alice Torn]

That is a tough one, to say the least! I have wondered about getting injured, and who would care for me, or find my stuff. I have a friend, who got shot twice by a drugged out stranger, in 1984, and the med techs got to him two minutes before he would have died! I visit him about once every two monthsHe is paralyzed from the neck down, on a ventilatorI don;t know if he was a cd. What is c-6? I hear, that visualizing, meditating, prayer, certain music, helps, but, i am sure thinking about it never totally goes away. Replacement thinking helps. I can't totally understand how that must be, but, it can happen to anyone. One minute at a time.

[linnea]

I don't know the answer either, Chastity. I wish that I could help you.
Hypnosis might help. It has helped people with other issues that they wanted to avoid. Since you're in the closet, you'd have to find a hypnotist whom you could trust and then tell that person quite a bit in order for the hypnotist to help you. That could be the toughest part.
I'll at least send you my positive thoughts for your welfare.

[Hope]

I doubt there will be much help for you here, not that we wouldn't love to help you out. Most of us have pretty well come to the realization that there is no real "cure" for CD / TG issues... and I think that most of us have come to that realization the hard way - after years of self loathing, shame, guilt, some limited indulgence followed by purging. I think most of us have realized that if there were a cure - we would have signed up for it.

I would bet that there are things other than crossdressing you (and others in your situation) are no longer able to take part in that you (and others in your situation) feel strongly driven to experience / be a part of. Drives and desires that simply are not going to go away simply because you can no longer voluntarily control your body. I am thinking about simple things like walking around, feeding yourself, having sex. These are all real, normal, healthy desires that aren't within the realm of possibility for you right now - though I bet you still wish to, feel driven to, do all of them. And I would bet, any amount of money you care to wager, that you are not alone in that.

I would also bet - though I don't know - that there are resources available to the paraplegic community for dealing with this feeling (surely you are not the first one who has felt this way), and finding ways to either express it, or to deal with your normal, healthy, desires. I would bet money that the place to look for the answer to this question is in the paraplegic community. And you don't have to "out" yourself to get the answer either. You can be really butch about it if you have to... "I was watching that Star-Trek movie last night, you know - the one with Kim Cattrall in it. I just can't get her out of my mind man - I used to know how to take care of this sort of "problem" but now what the hell am I supposed to do???" Then just substitute nylons, heels, panties, and a cute skirt, for "Kim Cattrall" in the answer.

You might not get an answer that is satisfactory - I am sure that there have been MANY answers in your life recently that have been less than satisfactory... but it is a place to start.

[Lisa Golightly]

You can only try Angel... It may work for you.

Lisa x

[Dragster]

I've found that through reading and posting on this site on a regular basis, the urge to actually CD is diminished. It may be different if my wife was tolerant, and I could dress while I posted! I guess I'm living my CD life through the exploits of the rest of you, and you may find that a solution Chastity. Of course, if I knew I could never, ever, CD myself, I may have a different reaction!

On the other hand, Chastity, I know it would be hard at first, but why don't you come out and ask someone you trust to dress you in feminine clothes as a special treat? I don't know your circumstances (with relationships etc.) but you may know someone who loves you enough to indulge your fantasy, on the grounds of at least giving you some pleasure in your circumstances. I know that might sound a bit patronising, but it was not intended that way. I'd do it for a friend, but then I'm a CD myself, and then I'd want to join you!

Tony

[Lilith Moon]

Chastity as others have said, the desire to crossdress never goes away. There have been some good suggestions in this thread. Here's another one that might help a little...You must have heard of the Second Life virtual world.

Create a Second Life female avatar. When I did that and spent time in there it sometimes felt like I *was* my avatar. I think the phenomena is called "immersion".

I went through a period when I couldn't cross-dress in real life and Second Life was a really useful outlet for my need to present and relate to others as a female, maybe it would work for you.

[LisaElizabeth]

Lucille,
'C-6' is the Sixth cervical Vertebra. If you feel the big lump at the base of your neck that sort of sticks out, it is the one right above that.
Being at that level means that Chastity can breathe, eat, talk and MAYBE even have some upper extremity motion, like being able to s-l-o-w-l-y type out messages on her computer. But as far as any type of strength goes, that would be limited. Her biceps probably work pretty well, but the triceps not so good. Also fine motor skills might be limited, such as putting on eyeliner or mascara.
definitely getting into lingerie by herself would be a problem.
I can only tell you that for me, using Dianetics as my method of 'self-discovery' seems to have removed the Obsessive/ compulsive portion of Cd'ing for me.
I no longer develope these all consuming thoughts of trying to figure out when or how I am going to get a chance to dress. This has lasted for 14 years, so in my mind it's rather permanent. I still dress, but only 3-4 times a year when I'm going out with my girlfriends or getting a chance to actually attend a support group meeting.
If nothing else, read the book 'dianetics', I found it to be quite fascinating and for me, at least, it works!
Hugs,
Lisa e

[Senban]

Hi Lilith :)

Lilith said - "Create a Second Life female avatar. When I did that and spent time in there it sometimes felt like I *was* my avatar. I think the phenomena is called "immersion"."

Yes, it's called immersion. I'd caution against the use of SL as an immersive solution though because it can become addictive. Been there, done it and rezzed the tee shirt unfortunately. I finally found a balance that allows me to enjoy SL without losing myself in the immersive experience but it was a long hard path. Certainly virtual worlds can be used as part of a therapeutic programme and such possibilities are starting to be investigated by medical professionals. For example, here's an article.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,74376,00.html

But SL addiction is very real and it should be approached with caution if there are goals such as this involved.

http://www.sl-addiction.com/

[JoAnne Wheeler]

Chastity - I am truly sorry and distressed to hear about your situation - I will

keep you in my prayers. As has been stated a zillion times on this FORUM,

the DESIRE and URGE to Crossdress will NEVER EVER go away. I would

suggest that you still try to emulate GGs who have the same problem and

limitations that you have - they still try to dress as GGs and they try to look

as best they can. Try to keep posting on this FORUM and keep us advised

as to how things are going and if there is anything that we can help you to

deal with your situation.

Love,

JoAnne Wheeler

[ChastityInFemme]

That is a tough one, to say the least! I have wondered about getting injured, and who would care for me, or find my stuff. I have a friend, who got shot twice by a drugged out stranger, in 1984, and the med techs got to him two minutes before he would have died! I visit him about once every two monthsHe is paralyzed from the neck down, on a ventilatorI don;t know if he was a cd. What is c-6? I hear, that visualizing, meditating, prayer, certain music, helps, but, i am sure thinking about it never totally goes away. Replacement thinking helps. I can't totally understand how that must be, but, it can happen to anyone. One minute at a time.

funny thing was the day before my accident i took off my nail polish...but my legs and chest were shaved. i had always shaved my chest but obviously the shaved legs brought up some questions. C-6 is the level of function i have. i have about half the use of my arms, no other motor function besides that.


I don't know the answer either, Chastity. I wish that I could help you.
Hypnosis might help. It has helped people with other issues that they wanted to avoid. Since you're in the closet, you'd have to find a hypnotist whom you could trust and then tell that person quite a bit in order for the hypnotist to help you. That could be the toughest part.
I'll at least send you my positive thoughts for your welfare.

it woulld be hard, especially getting to the therapists office. my current transportation involves someone else driving me there.


I doubt there will be much help for you here, not that we wouldn't love to help you out. Most of us have pretty well come to the realization that there is no real "cure" for CD / TG issues... and I think that most of us have come to that realization the hard way - after years of self loathing, shame, guilt, some limited indulgence followed by purging. I think most of us have realized that if there were a cure - we would have signed up for it.

I would bet that there are things other than crossdressing you (and others in your situation) are no longer able to take part in that you (and others in your situation) feel strongly driven to experience / be a part of. Drives and desires that simply are not going to go away simply because you can no longer voluntarily control your body. I am thinking about simple things like walking around, feeding yourself, having sex. These are all real, normal, healthy desires that aren't within the realm of possibility for you right now - though I bet you still wish to, feel driven to, do all of them. And I would bet, any amount of money you care to wager, that you are not alone in that.

I would also bet - though I don't know - that there are resources available to the paraplegic community for dealing with this feeling (surely you are not the first one who has felt this way), and finding ways to either express it, or to deal with your normal, healthy, desires. I would bet money that the place to look for the answer to this question is in the paraplegic community. And you don't have to "out" yourself to get the answer either. You can be really butch about it if you have to... "I was watching that Star-Trek movie last night, you know - the one with Kim Cattrall in it. I just can't get her out of my mind man - I used to know how to take care of this sort of "problem" but now what the hell am I supposed to do???" Then just substitute nylons, heels, panties, and a cute skirt, for "Kim Cattrall" in the answer.

about losing desires to do things- i can still have sex (i know you're probably thinking how that would work, trust me...it just does) but the downside is i never get that relieving orgasm. spinal cord injuries cause retrovert ejaculations, which is were the man juice shoots down the wrong pipe and goes into my bladder. also, spinal cord injuries totally kill your libido. you simply don't have a desire to have sex I was progressing to the point where i wanted to look as best as i could pull off. i was starting to have the desire to go someplace, just drive somewhere to walk or something...just to venture beyond the walls of my house. i just want to dress up and try to pass the best i can. i'm glad i feel that way instead of how things used to.

my BIG issue is asking soeone to help me dress. for one i need help getting dressed...it's humiliating enough to get dressed in male clothing, let alone female clothing. i couldn't imagine having my home health aid dress me up, help me with make-up...or shave my legs, imagine how much trouble that would be. and it would be awkward for my nurses that come every 5 hours to cath me if i were dressed.... see why i want the urge to subside until i'm more independent? privacy is already a major issue for me, haha.


I guess I'm living my CD life through the exploits of the rest of you...

On the other hand, Chastity, I know it would be hard at first, but why don't you come out and ask someone you trust to dress you in feminine clothes as a special treat? I don't know your circumstances (with relationships etc.) but you may know someone who loves you enough to indulge your fantasy, on the grounds of at least giving you some pleasure in your circumstances. I know that might sound a bit patronising, but it was not intended that way. I'd do it for a friend, but then I'm a CD myself, and then I'd want to join you!

i definitely know what you mean. i feel the same way.

i wish i could feel comfortable enough to ask someone for help. i'd ask my girlfriend but i think that she would throw it in my face everytime we have an argument...or tell someone else. i think she isn't the right person to tell.


Chastity as others have said, the desire to crossdress never goes away. There have been some good suggestions in this thread. Here's another one that might help a little...You must have heard of the Second Life virtual world...

i've tried SL but i just cant get into it. i cant get into those kind of games...even though my avatar was female.


Lucille,
'C-6' is the Sixth cervical Vertebra. If you feel the big lump at the base of your neck that sort of sticks out, it is the one right above that.
Being at that level means that Chastity can breathe, eat, talk and MAYBE even have some upper extremity motion, like being able to s-l-o-w-l-y type out messages on her computer. But as far as any type of strength goes, that would be limited. Her biceps probably work pretty well, but the triceps not so good. Also fine motor skills might be limited, such as putting on eyeliner or mascara.
definitely getting into lingerie by herself would be a problem.
I can only tell you that for me, using Dianetics as my method of 'self-discovery' seems to have removed the Obsessive/ compulsive portion of Cd'ing for me.


you are correct! i actually fractured my 5th vertebrae but have C-6 function. i cant move my fingers, or my lower wrist flexors, or triceps. i have full use of my upper wrist flexors, biceps and shoulders. with what movement i have i do have fine motor skills. i imagine putting eyeliner or mascara wouldn't be that difficult.

i'll look up Dianetics! thank you!




just a lil fyi, my life doesn't suck or anything. granted i have a major setback of being paralyzed but i do have a nice life. i have a girlfriend, awesome parents...i'll be going to college here soon. i always look at it this way, no matter how bad things are, it could always be worse.

[Jess_cd32]

Hi Chastity,
First off I'm sorry to hear about your situation.

As for the help you seek you may find some answers here, start with the anima theory.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/cathytg/essays.htm

The best thing that you could do, rather than attempt to kill off your feminine persona, which I'm sure has many good traits outside of the clothing aspect is to integrate the two and start thinking as one, rather than living with them in conflict. Just because you can't dress female isn't a good reason to dispose of that part of you. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

If you realized how important your fem persona is to you to make you a whole person mentally you'd change your current thinking. Give your fem side another chance and read read read! My thoughts are with you and hope you find nirvana soon. Thinking just totally male will drive you up a wall in frustration, anger etc... .

Here's a partial definition of what nirvana is from Wikipedia....

........Buddha described nirvana as the perfect peace of the state of mind that is free from craving, anger and other afflictive states (kilesa). The subject is at peace with the world, has compassion for all and gives up obsessions and fixations. This peace is achieved when the existing volitional formations are pacified, and the conditions for the production of new ones are eradicated. In Nibbana the root causes of craving and aversion have been extinguished such that one is no longer subject to human suffering (dukkha) or further states of rebirths in samsara.........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana

[Missy]

what we think of is what we look for
if you cannot do it and the more you think of it the more you miss it. and the greater the urge getts
try to change your thoughts from crossdressing to sometime you also enjoy doing and can do it

it is all i can come up with

[Sally2005]

There are only a couple things that make my Cding urge drop. If I really need to focus on something important like work, roof over my head, family I forget about the desire for a while. If I adjust my attitude to CDing is normal and just a part of who I am, the desire to hide it is less and the need to suddenly immerse myself in it is less. Reading about it online sometimes brings the urge back, but on the otherhand it provides some relief because you can live through others experiences. The thing that has mostly reduced my desire is to do the things that I always desired to do the most (you know, the things that you should do at least once in your life...the ones you will regret not doing when you take your last breath and wonder what your life was about). In a way, I feel I can check these things off, feel good that I did them and move on.

Your case is special because of your medical issue. The only thing I could think of, was how about you join a local CDing club and have one of the members help you? The other is, come out to your nurses...so you don't have to hide.

[Kathleen Grace]

Hobbies help. Since you're going to college soon, your studies should help distract you somewhat. The new friends you'll make will help too. I know that sharing in these forums helps me in being able to express my fem side without having to dress etc. Over time the desires lessen but I don't think they ever go away. But anything is possible. :)

[trisha59]

Chastity,
I cannot imagine how frustrating it must be for you. Unfortunately as others have said there is no way to make this stuff go away. I do feel that we are getting closer on curing spinal cord injuries hopefully new discoveries will be found very soon. Also like others have said being on this site does make a good alternative. Just seeing someone type your name is a nice thing to see.

[JulieC]

my BIG issue is asking soeone to help me dress. for one i need help getting dressed...it's humiliating enough to get dressed in male clothing, let alone female clothing. i couldn't imagine having my home health aid dress me up, help me with make-up...or shave my legs, imagine how much trouble that would be. and it would be awkward for my nurses that come every 5 hours to cath me if i were dressed.... see why i want the urge to subside until i'm more independent? privacy is already a major issue for me, haha.

I wish you the best of luck in finding a way to permanently repress your desires to crossdress, if that's the solution you want. Personally, I don't think it will be successful. It's worth a try. Please let us know how it goes.

Looking at this from another perspective; if repression doesn't work, you are who you are. Aides come and dress women. They come and dress men. Asking them to dress you in the clothes you want to wear is not improper/inappropriate. If the aide has a problem with it, get a different aide.


just a lil fyi, my life doesn't suck or anything. granted i have a major setback of being paralyzed but i do have a nice life. i have a girlfriend, awesome parents...i'll be going to college here soon. i always look at it this way, no matter how bad things are, it could always be worse.

Very positive attitude!

[Kathleen Grace]

My guess is that you're not yet 21. Getting some aides to do the everyday normal tasks is hard enough. Getting them to do extra is possible sometimes.

Do you have any girlfriends, and I mean GG's who are friends, you might confide in?

[ChastityInFemme]

thank you everyone who replied! it is highly appreciated.


My guess is that you're not yet 21. Getting some aides to do the everyday normal tasks is hard enough. Getting them to do extra is possible sometimes.

Do you have any girlfriends, and I mean GG's who are friends, you might confide in?

actually i'm 22. most of the aides i've had have been older(40's and 50's) so i don't know how they would react. if i had a much younger aide, i would be more inclined to ask for help. i had one aide that was my age and he was the most feminine guy around, probably gay and just didn't know it yet. he would've been a possible helper for cd'ing but we didn't really get along.

i have a lot of girl friends, more so thaan guys. i don't talk to them enough anymore nor am i close to them anymore. i think my girlfriend may accept me but she can be spiteful and thats not a good thing. she actually had a crossdresser in a class at school...she didn't really say anything mean but she didn't like this crossdresser because she was a know-it-all a-hole. the girlfriend has mentioned putting make-up on me, or clothes a few times...but i'm not quite ready to give her the go ahead. i'm contemplating to see if she wants to swap clothes this halloween, i'll dress as the gf, she dress as the bf...we'll see how that goes. i don't know if i have the balls to say anything though. it takes a lot of guts to come out which makes me really admire all of you who are out and proud!

[Kathleen Grace]

Chastity,

Ii sounds like you have a pretty good plan with your girlfriend. You know her best of course. :)

If she ever suggests making you up again, it would be a good test to see how she might take your Halloween suggestion when the time comes. Be sure to make it as fun for her as it is for you. Even if she has different ideas as to what you think would look good on you. Make sure she has a good time with it.

:hugs:

Kathleen

[BabsCoopr]

There are only a couple things that make my Cding urge drop. If I really need to focus on something important like work, roof over my head, family I forget about the desire for a while. If I adjust my attitude to CDing is normal and just a part of who I am, the desire to hide it is less and the need to suddenly immerse myself in it is less. Reading about it online sometimes brings the urge back, but on the otherhand it provides some relief because you can live through others experiences. The thing that has mostly reduced my desire is to do the things that I always desired to do the most (you know, the things that you should do at least once in your life...the ones you will regret not doing when you take your last breath and wonder what your life was about). In a way, I feel I can check these things off, feel good that I did them and move on.

Your case is special because of your medical issue. The only thing I could think of, was how about you join a local CDing club and have one of the members help you? The other is, come out to your nurses...so you don't have to hide.

I have to agree about coming out to a nurse or Personal Care Attendant who you can trust -- Chastity, what works for me are two things:

1) If you can have a friend (or friends) who you can trust, talk with them about your experiences and even fantasies. That helps me almost as much as the compulsion to dress;

2) Since ladies can dress in male clothing, try thinking of your fem self just dressed in male clothes.

Like you, I need total assistance dressing, and most of the time, it drives me bonkers. Hope this helps a little. Best, Babs

[dilane]

I know of someone who took antidepressant (prozac, I think), and he lost his urge to crossdress during that treatment period, until he phased off the drug.

[Mrs. X (gg)]

It is so sad what happened, you're so young.

Honey, I agree you should trust a friend to help you out, a good friend won't mind. I know you must have someone, other than your GF to confide on. Take the risk, why not?

Please don't go on meds or anything unhealthy to deal with this...it not worth it.

[sissystephanie]

Once again I am going to speak out in opposition to many others who have expressed their opinions on this thread. You CAN STOP CROSSDRESSING IF YOU REALLY WANT TO!! The key is your desire! If you want to quit, get rid of ALL your female garments and makeup, etc. Then quit coming on this forum! If you really want to quit, you have to do everything possible to get away from any influence to CD.

Believe me, I do know what I am talking about! Years ago, when my wife was still alive, I quit being a CD (cold turkey!). I just decided that I did not need all those pretty clothes and stuff, since I was really a man! After 5 years of absolutely no CD activity, my dear wife, who always had been fully supportive, told me she missed Stephanie, and offered to buy me a new wardrobe if I would start dressing again. I did, and still do. But I have told both my daughter and my GGF that I will quit if they want me to.

I am sorry about your accident, but I sure like your spirit!! With an attitude like that, you can accomplish almost anything! God Bless you!!

[Joanne f]

A difficult one because you are asking for help to suppress a desire you have for something that does no one no harm yet being able to do it would help to make your life more enjoyable , if that is really what you want then i guess that there are ways .
But have you thought of using your situation to fulfill your desires to the best of your situation , some of the people around you must be understanding , caring and sympathetic people, it would not be wrong for you you use some of that to get some happiness out of life .

[JulieC]

Once again I am going to speak out in opposition to many others who have expressed their opinions on this thread. You CAN STOP CROSSDRESSING IF YOU REALLY WANT TO!! The key is your desire! If you want to quit, get rid of ALL your female garments and makeup, etc. Then quit coming on this forum! If you really want to quit, you have to do everything possible to get away from any influence to CD.

Believe me, I do know what I am talking about! Years ago, when my wife was still alive, I quit being a CD (cold turkey!). I just decided that I did not need all those pretty clothes and stuff, since I was really a man! After 5 years of absolutely no CD activity, my dear wife, who always had been fully supportive, told me she missed Stephanie, and offered to buy me a new wardrobe if I would start dressing again. I did, and still do. But I have told both my daughter and my GGF that I will quit if they want me to.

I am sorry about your accident, but I sure like your spirit!! With an attitude like that, you can accomplish almost anything! God Bless you!!

You note that getting all CD influences away from you as much as possible is central to success in stopping. The problem is, the most important influence to crossdress is within us. You can't remove it and give it to a thrift shop. No matter where you are, no matter what you are doing, no matter what you are wearing...it's still with you.

You proved this yourself. You stopped crossdressing, but you didn't remove the urge. Proof; after five years of not CDing, you were happy to start CDing again at the request of your wife. If you didn't have the urge to CD, you wouldn't have done it, and certainly wouldn't be on this forum.

Keep in mind; the original poster didn't ask how to stop CDing. The original poster asked how to find "a way to eliminate the urge to crossdress". He already hasn't crossdressed for three years. He's looking for a way for the urge to go away.

In my opinion, you can't remove it from yourself. It's part of you. I would absolutely LOVE for their to be a way to permanently remove this urge. Life would be easier without the urge. I'm sure many men feel this way.

There are those men who at some point might dress up in women's clothes on a lark, or for a costume or something. It's nothing to them. There are others who actively want and buy women's clothes for themselves, and have a desire to crosssdress. For the latter group, you can't make it go away. I hope the original poster finds a way, and reports back how they did it.

[Starling]

...it takes a lot of guts to come out which makes me really admire all of you who are out and proud!

Dear heart, your incredible generosity of spirit brings me to tears. I wish you much, much happiness in your life.

Love,
Lallie

[ChastityInFemme]

Ha,I thought my thread died.

Anywho, I really try to ignore my interest in crossdressing but I just cant. I try to get online without getting on this forum but I always end up here. I’m constantly reminded of crossdressing…as soon as I see an attractive girl, cute shoes, stylish clothes. Anytime I’m with my girlfriend and we talk about her clothes I instantly want to tell her about my fem side. My fem side is screaming to come out but all at the same time I don’t want to let anyone know at all.

My big problem, imo, is I cant masturbate. I used to dress and then masturbate and get that guilty feeling and want nothing to do with fem stuff. Since I don’t get that guilty feeling, I want to dress or do something fem 9 times outta 10. Sucks eh? Since my injury my view on crossdressing has changed completely. I want to dress to pass and not relate crossdressing as a sexual thrill.

I think my best chance to get dolled up is Halloween. I’m going to try to get my girlfriend to dress as the boyfriend and me as the girlfriend. I’ll see how that goes and I’ll keep y’all posted.

[Christinedreamer]

Here is a possible idea to get some sympathetic help on the healthcare front and dressing. try contacting the local Gay and Lesbian center and ask about medical home healthcare. They provide contacts for folks living with AIDS etc.

You can explain that although you do not have HIV or AIDS, you are in need of someone who can assist with the health aspect and also explain that you are a CD but that your injury has made dressing impossible. The health care pros they have are well versed in CD, TG, etc and you can probably find a helpful soul among their ranks.

The folks at the GLBT Centers understand our world better tham most everyone and I am sure they can put you in contact with a trustworthy person to help you experience the femme world to some degree, possibly even getting you done up to go out on the town.

I have a good friend here in SoCal that could help if you are in our area. She is TG and she is the top dog at our local AIDS assistance program.

[ChastityInFemme]

thank you christine! i don't live in your aarea, i'm all the way up in Ohio.

[ginacduk]

It never goes away once a girl always a girl.

Gina

[mklinden2010]

Well, good luck with that.

Since I started to reply I see things have moved on... And, on...

So, I'll just wish you luck with all the new ideas being offered.

Good luck.