feminine vs. masculine

[Norah Jean]

I do recognize that this may be a little bit off topic as 'crossdressing' tends to refer more to physical appearance, but resulting from a recent conversation I had, I am very curious about everyone's views/interpretations of the more internalized feminine and masculine characteristics.

Specifically what I would like to know is, apart from physical qualities, which characteristics qualify as feminine and which are masculine? Where (if any) are the crossovers?

I'd love to put in my 2 cents as well but don't want to lead the conversation so I will wait patiently to hear from everyone else. I look forward to hearing what you all have to say.

Thanks :)

[JoAnne Wheeler]

I am not sure exactly what you are looking for, but if you are looking for our feminine traits as opposed to my masculine traits, here goes:

FEMININE: enjoy beauty, colors, sensation, fabrics, clothing, hair, shoes,
make-up, lingerie, and people
love the arts, music, the theater
creativity, design, small details
being passive, listening, reading
singing
sexually passive


MASCULINE: contact sports, football, basketball
cars and mechanical things
operating equipment
being aggressive
sexually dominant

I hope this is what you are referring to

JoAnne Wheeler

[Kate Simmons]

Beats me. Traits are individual and vary by the person and are mostly intrinsic. They are what makes us who we are and are driven by DNA programming. Whether they are considered masculine or feminine or not is mostly based on opinion and apparent consensus.:)

[Karren H]

I can't quite grasp what fem characteristics there are that don't manifest themselves physically? My traits are so scrambled lately that I've lost track.. Is crosschecking a feminine penalty or a masculine one? :D

Mascanine? Femulon?

[jenniferj]

This is an explosive topic- I was chastised soundly a while ago for assuming that CD's would be a larger fraction of the theatre-going public :battingeyelashes:

I think that gender identity and sexuality are very complicated things and that there are both instinctive and learned behaviors. There is just not a simple on/off switch. You are what you are.

As for myself, I tend to pretty much follow JoAnne's feminine characteristics. As guy-me, I lean much more toward the masculine side. I prefer to be JJ most of the time.:o

-jj

[Sarah...]

I think we're on a road to nowhere if we start trying to classify feminine and masculine traits. There is always, always an exception - and usually way more than one exception. So, who, for example, originally classified "sexually passive" as a feminine trait? Biologically speaking there is nothing passive about feminine sexuality at all. Socially speaking that seems like a throwback from less enlightened times.

One of my good friends is very adept with kitchen fitting, floor laying, painting and decorating and runs a business doing industrial painting and decorating. She's also a very feminine woman indeed, strong and not passive or submissive in any way.

My step-sister has played football (soccer, I guess) and coached football for many years and is also a very feminine woman.

I think the traits characterising masculinity and femininity are indefinable. And furthermore to do so only compounds the very gender binary classification that many of us seem keen to disown in the first place. Any definition of such traits is, in my view, going to be seen as arbitrary at best and dismissive of people at worst.

:)

Sarah...

[DemonicDaughter]

If all the words "masculine" or "feminine" meant was to distinguish the two sexes, why do people insist that activities, knowledge, inanimate objects, etc can somehow be of a sex?

These two words are only to decipher distinguishable characters in conversation, not defining laws on who or what a person is! Cooking is no more a "feminine" activity than gardening (both of which are primarily male dominated occupations - chefs and farmers). Its purely a matter of personal and social association from one to the other.

Cleaning is a "feminine" task because women weren't allowed in the work force and were forced to stay home. What else is there to do?

Read some history and discover that women held prestigious places of honor in both the home, church and government for thousands of years in almost all religious beliefs and societies. Back then, "feminine" would be defined as strong, dominant, decisive and commanding. Not at all as it is now.


which characteristics qualify as feminine and which are masculine?

Any in which you are referring to a specific person (he, she, his, hers, mother, father, brother, sister, etc) in which an identifier needs to be in place to allow another individual to know of whom you are speaking about.

[izzfan]

I personally think of it as being two distinct sides of my personality - neither is better or worse than the other and if I focus on one for too long then the other one tends to return with a vengeance.

However, the main benefits of my feminine side is that I feel able to express all of the emotions that I have to hide/ try not to think about in "bob mode", also I can focus a lot more on my appearence and make myself feel a lot more beautiful and confident when I am "en femme" (this is Ironic becuase although I feel more confident when En Femme, I still don't feel confident enough to open the curtains, let alone go out of my bedroom on any day other than Halloween.

In "Bob Mode" I try to look kind of androgynous but the irony about this was that when I was out drinking with some of my friends, one of my friends (who also looks slightly androgynous but is definatly not a CD) got breifly mistaken for a woman by some random person who then pointed at me and said something along the lines of "Not like your mate here, who's clearly a bloke".... ironic and somewhat insulting for both of us.

I admit that my description of my feminine side might seem a bit stereotypical but it is a honest description of how I feel when I am en femme.

Just my :2c:

[Nigella]

From Cambridge Dictionaries online

characteristic:

typical of a person
a typical or noticeable quality of someone


Society is responsible for typifying certain characteristics to certain genders, but as shown above a characteristic is personal, just because a person has a certain characteristic and is either male or female, does not make that characteristic male or female.

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

Specifically what I would like to know is, apart from physical qualities, which characteristics qualify as feminine and which are masculine?

I'm not sure where to start. Some of it has already been hit upon in previous posts.

Honestly though, hasen't society already driven into everyone's minds (including us crossdressers) what the expected masculine and feminine qualities are? I mean, I spent the better part of my life trying to hide those traits about myself that everyone else thought was feminine - from mannerisms to certain behavioral attributes.

I guess the answer you're looking for is somewhat debatable in terms of absolute masculine vs. feminine qualities. I think most of which side of the fence things fall are really very clear already though.

To give a personal account, when I used to smoke - I was told that I smoked like a girl because of the way I held my cigarette - between two fingers pointed upright similar to the "peace" sign. Once that was pointed out to me, I changed it accordingly to the more typical manly smoking method. I guess even little things like the way you hold your cigarette can be considered masculine or feminine depending on who's judging.

The use of the word "cute" got me in to trouble as well. I was told "men don't use the word cute", and so I nixxed that from my vocabulary. God forbid a male use the word "cute", right?

Even the way I walked was a problem with some people. I didn't walk manly/tough enough. Wtf? That got modified as well. Not sure if my walk was feminine, but it sure wasn't manly enough for some people and they saw fit to tell me that.

So there are a few that got me personally into trouble with society's almighty knowledge of how a man should act, behave, look, etc.

[linnea]

Most so-called feminine behavior that I know of seems to be learned, but it is so pervasively "taught" and expected of females that it holds true for a lot of them.

[beenherelongtime]

i asked this question before. there is no definitive answer what is considered feminine and what is masculine. without bringing up the effeminated gay character that is stereotyped, you know the limp wristed strutting person. i look at the people around me, generally my family and do not notice any differences in their manner. except that my sisters never run out of things to talk about, and my brother-in-law and myself generally stay quiet.

[Terra_Branford]

I've spent a lot of time wondering about this myself. I hear talk from CDs and GGs about feeling feminine or inner femininity, and I have no idea what they mean. The same for guys talking about "being a real man." I personally don't feel like either, because I can't make sense of those ideas. I know things that are considered to be masculine or feminine, but I know them only by rote, and can't understand why they are. Different aspects of my personality could be considered to be everything from very masculine to very feminine and everything in between, and taken as a whole, they don't fit very well into either box. I thought once that I could find something that masculine things or feminine things had in common, and thus make a more general definition of those ideas, but alas, the only thing that unites masculine things or feminine things as a group is that they're considered masculine or feminine. At this point, I've come to believe that masculinity and femininity are either a) cultural baggage that never really made sense in the first place and only exist now because of tradition, or b) the result of brain wiring that I don't have, or c) some combination thereof.

[Jess_cd32]

Good points made, I'm concluding we'd like to think women are more passive and men more aggressive in nature. Then when you see these young women today on YouTube brutally beating the hell out of eachother I start rethinking things.

Its a very complicated question really, as was said, society has drilled into us how we should behave for the most part. I'd say look to nature and you might find some answers, generally the male dominates and the female is passive, then again its the male seahorse that cares for the young newborns, so who's to say.

[charlie]

Lately all the masculine traits are being bent and done in a more feminine way. I'm sitting up straighter though!

[Carin]

Personally I think this is a very interesting topic. It was posted by a GG. Does that change your perception of its relevance?

In general men and women look at things differently. The success of the book Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus (http://home.marsvenus.com/) would suggest that the differences are significant and important to understand.

I have spent some time recently myself thinking about a male psyche vs a female psyche. Since that is a work in progress I will have to defer a response.

[Norah Jean]

I am thrilled by all the answers and how well versed they all are. I am definitely seeing how much we consciously negotiate this issue on a daily basis whether GG or CD/TG, whether en femme or drab. First, I would like to say that my phrasing of the initial question failed to specifically mention that I as well view this subject as subjective and was thus looking for responses that voiced your individual experience of feminine and masculine. Thank you to those of you who have shared your experience with regards to this subject.

I am indeed intrigued by all of your insight but especially as I realize that as CD/TGs your negotiation of the feminine and the masculine plays a much bigger, more visible role in your lives. And even though I had originally thought to exclude external characteristics or actions, I now can see that they are often required to describe the feminine or masculine way that perceptions and emotions manifest.

My own experience is such that I negotiate the feminine and the masculine to maintain the same persona on a daily basis. From a young age I have always been more inclined to actively participate and make my own decisions, rather than sit back and wait until my destiny was decided for me. I tend to be louder, more aggressive and stubborn, but as I have gotten older I have begun to experiment with letting go and being more easy going -not necessarily feminine traits except for in comparison to my outspoken nature. My friend brought up that I seem a lot more feminine these days. In all honesty, I do identify this more mild temper as a softer more feminine side but I do not necessarily think of my aggressive side as being more masculine, perhaps because I was so used to it? But at the same time, because of my aggressive personality I have always felt uncomfortable around people who's personalities cannot compete with my own. I even recently found myself thinking that it would be unlikely that I could have a relationship with another woman unless she was just as head strong as myself. This said though, I also greatly appreciate my more emotional feminine side and suppose that is why I ended up with a man who also greatly appreciates the feminine.

[Debutante]

I think CDers often address too much attention and application of themselves only to the physical appearance.
In doing so, they get shallow, one-sided, or just become 'a man in a dress'. This varies, of course,
What is important, as this is to all women and girls, is being feminine inside, addressing the 'feminine being' that is the inner self.
I think this is important to me... I try to adopt feminine mannerisms, and receptivity, caring, and relationship.
This needs work by me, make no mistake.
But this takes you to the place of the authentic feminine, IMHO...

[Dannie Lefae]

My answer to this would have to be something like. I have never felt as sexy, provocative or beautiful as Dan as I do when I am Em. The flip side is that as Em I usually don't feel as ego driven or Macho. Em is a blessing to me as well as a curse. I enjoy the feelings awoken within me as a woman but hate how having her as part of me reflects within me, the feelings of being less of a man and inadequate, but again, that is upbringing and conditioning that I have to get passed.

Em

[Annie D]

JoAnn, I liked your list of feminine vs. masculine activities but it made me think that if a male liked or participated in any of the feminine activities he might be classified as a sissy or even worse "gay" and if female liked or participated in any of the male activities she might be classified as butch or even worse " lesbian". These activities have nothing to do about gender or gender preference: there are mothers who drive tractor trailer rigs and athletes who "switch hit". Please, my intent is to not offend anyone.

My point is we all have things that we like to do whether it be masculine or feminine in nature and when we get over stereotyping a certain activity with gender, we will all be better people for it. Call it adult "peer pressure" or just plain ignorance a lot of what we perceive to be either masculine or feminine activities have been legally erased by the law and rightly so.

In the early '70's the American School system got Title IX, giving females equal opportunities in athletics as males were receiving. Before that, we started integrating schools to give equal opportunities to minorities and later came affirmative action. For the past several years we have gotten equal pay for equal jobs. We now have non-discriminatory legislation for gender, age, and religion.

I would only hope that my son and my daughter would have the opportunity to "enjoy" the activities you listed and not be viewed as either masculine or feminine just because they did them.

Sorry about the soap box!