should SRS be the deciding factor for what your gender is?

[Raquel June]

I'm sure many people will say the obvious answer is no, but this seems like a pretty difficult question.

We all have IDs. Most of us have a driver's license with a box that says M or F. So, the question is:

Should people just be allowed to walk into the BMV and say, "I want you to change my license from M to F" and have it done? That would probably be less than ideal. Every other identifying feature is concrete. Then again, they'll just take your word for other stuff. I know more than one guy who is 5'10" and his license says 6'0". I know girls whose licenses say 130 lbs. when they weigh 170 lbs. I'm colorblind, and I've told the BMV my eyes were green, brown, and hazel at different times. Nobody ever gave me a hard time.

So what's the deal with gender? If they're going to be so lax about the other things, shouldn't they take my word for it on the gender thing? Have any post-op girls ever just threatened to get naked in the BMV instead of producing a letter and/or birth certificate? If you're allowed to lie about everything else on your driver's license, and you can dress however you want, it's pretty odd that they don't just let you say, "No, I'm female. Fix it."

But with respect to the rest of your life, what do you think should be required for you to officially change your gender? I suppose SRS is a good way to prove you're serious about being TS, but surgery is dangerous and expensive and it's just not for everybody. At the very least you have to feel bad for TS people who aren't healthy enough or don't have the money for surgery.

[Karen564]

Racquel,
What IS your states DMV policy for changing gender markers??

I just found out recently that in my state, all that required now is a letter from a therapist that you intend to live as a female from this point on.

They just changed this policy this year,,,, in the past you were required to have a letter proving you had SRS..

As far as name changes, they still require proof of the court order stating the new legal name status.

Karen

[Raquel June]

Racquel,
What IS your states DMV policy for changing gender markers??

I just found out recently that in my state, all that required now is a letter from a therapist that you intend to live as a female from this point on.

They just changed this policy this year,,,, in the past you were required to have a letter proving you had SRS..

As far as name changes, they still require proof of the court order stating the new legal name status.

Karen

I live in Ohio. Last I heard, Ohio and Tennessee are the only states that refuse to ever change the sex on your birth certificate or even give you something official to attach to it saying your sex has changed like South Carolina does.

If you've already changed your name and have an official note from a therapist or surgeon you might get the BMV to change your license, though. I mean, I could care less about the gender on my birth certificate. Your birth certificate already looks pretty suspicious when you get your name changed.

It certainly helps to be passable when dealing with the BMV, though. I know a totally passable Asian TS girl who just walked in and said there was a mistake on her license and they fixed it.

[Tizabet]

I don't think it should be super difficult, or that SRS should be required (as has been pointed out several times elsewhere, it's not always feasible). But it does make sense to show SOME indication beyond just a few words on day. Therapist letter seems plenty to me, though.

You talk about height,weight, and eye color "lies", but these change. My height is marked a few inches taller than I am, because the DMV lady took a wild guess some years back. My weight is marked 40 pounds too high because I've lost weight, but no one bothered to change it. My eye color HAS changed several times when I was younger. I'm sure I'm not an isolated case, so there's no reason for it to raise any flags. But people don't expect your sex to change, so they question it. :(

On a side note, screw Ohio and Tennessee! :P

[GypsyKaren]

I remember last year when New York was considering a change to allow people to choose their gender, one of the reasons they stopped was word from prison officials that a great deal of male prisoners were planning on changing to female so they could try for transfers to women's prisons.

Just speaking for myself, I had to show my surgical letter to get mine changed and I had no problem with that, I don't see why showing proof of anything should be a big deal.

Karen :g2:

[Melissa A.]

New York does have some cumbersome rules for changing name and gender, but it can be done. And the matter of the Dept. of motor vehicles was settled a long time ago, as the attachment here shows. The point here is that not everyone has proof to show, for alot of different reasons, so it is a problem. Should Gender Reasignment Surgery define what gender you are? I don't think so. GRS may be in my future, but being a woman involves alot more than what's between my legs, which is no one's business, even the states'.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[Raquel June]

Ooh. A "psychological evaluation with a medical determination that one gender predominates over the other." That sounds like a pretty good policy.

[John]

should SRS be the deciding factor for what your legaly recognised gender is?

My oppinion is no (not that I expect anyone here to disent)



Should people just be allowed to walk into the BMV and say, "I want you to change my license from M to F" and have it done? That would probably be less than ideal.

Indead it would, as it would it you could just walk in there and say "I want you to change my licence from 'Jon Dough' to 'Fred Blogs'" and just have it done with no evidence. But produce a stat-dec (or your local equivilent) and they'll do it, no issue. Likewise, if you can produce, say, a doctors/psychs letter explaining that F should become M (or vice-versa) then I think that should be enoguh (it was enough for me to chainge my licence).




But with respect to the rest of your life, what do you think should be required for you to officially change your gender? I suppose SRS is a good way to prove you're serious about being TS, but surgery is dangerous and expensive and it's just not for everybody. At the very least you have to feel bad for TS people who aren't healthy enough or don't have the money for surgery.


As you said, there are plenty of legitimat reasons people cannot (or chose not to) undergo srs: finance (where srs is not available on national health cair), unrelated health dificalties, desires of SO's being respected to maintain a relationship, and of cause the risk of losing sexual activity and the ability to ever have an orgasm for the rest of your life (not sure what it is for transwomen, but I hear it's about one in ten for sertain phalioplasy techniques).

While they're reasens not to undergo srs, non of them are reasons to be refused the respect and dignaty of legal recognition of your gender.

In Briton we have the Gender Recognition Act 2004, which requires evidnce of

-three years living full time
-and a profesional diagnosis of gender identity disorder

for a pannel to approve granting a gender recognition cirtificate, which grants you legal recognition and the option to alter a birth cirtificate originating within Briton. It dose not require you to have any pysicle treatement, though they may request an explination before granting approving a request.

[Mary Lee]

I also was born and live in Ohio. I become vary unconforable drivng as Mary Lee.

Yes, Ohio will not allow a gender change on the birth certificate or drivers licence. that really bugs me. A GG can have her name change because of marrage or divorce.

The Ohio BMV will allow a name change provided the name change is official such as having a court approved name change and a social security card with the new name is required.

I would like to see Ohio at least provide a state ID, besides a drivers licence, of some type that states 'also known as' such as John Doe AKA Jane Doe. A picture of both John and Jane could be on the ID. Showing the birth gender would be OK.

One other think to think about is that ones credit reports show the AKA. So if you apply for credit, the company reviewing you credit will see AKA Jane Doe. If you are applying for credit as John to buy a new car, the credit department say something like 'John or Jane, you loan has been approved'.

If you have a credit card for yourself with your female name then the credit card company will report that to the credit reporting agencies.

[Empress Lainie]

I was born in Texas, GM. I was 72 before I realized that the reason I was different from other men and boys was that I was really a female person. That day I began living as the woman I am 24/7. I changed my name legally, and miracle of miracles, the NV DMV when I asked, put F on my driver's license. They had not been doing that, and to the knowledge of my tg group there was only one other person that got it. Now there is a storm going on and they won't do it now for pre-ops. But we have attorneys and others working to get the state legislature to change it.

Texas will not change my birth certificate to Female without SRS. I emailed the governor to ask for legislation that allows pre-ops to change it.

I would die if NV makes me get another DL that says M. I have been afraid of them doing this since I am getting licensed by the DMV to do smogs. However, my instructor said he didn't think they would bother me.

Colorado insists that pre-ops living as female show F on their DL. I have been told CA allows it.

Am I female? Absolutely, except for a few inches in the middle I am female from my toes to the top of my baldy head. I always have been. My ex-gf and others knew it before it dawned on me.

Would I have SRS? YES tomorrow.

Can I have SRS? Doubtful.

I am 74; I am diabetic; I have a 5way CABG, I have a pacemaker. I am taken to be around 50-55 by everyone I ask,and i am as active as any 40 year old, more so than when I was 40.

So for what it is worth my :2c:

Lainie (the Empress not the Movie!)

[janelle]

In Wisconsin, at least for me, having a letter was all I needed to get my drivers lic. changed. SS will not do it until SRS. & here is a kicker for you, the place I work for will only let me use a single stall restroom by the office until I have surgery. To me it seems everybody has to know what we are going thru.


Janelle