Point and purpose

[Kate Simmons]

What does crossdressing accomplish for you? I'm also interested in hearing from SO's and what they think CDing does for their partner.

[Nicole Erin]

A lot of aggrivation when I dress full femme, I never think I look good enough and want to say hell with it and throw out all my $***.
My partner - she bitches about it sometimes but she is unhappy in general.
Plus, she doesn't hesitate to borrow my stuff. :brolleyes:

[Jaydee]

Arianna,
In my case you might of as well ask "What does breathing do for you?" It is part of my being, something I can't stop and can barely control. On the positive side, it provides a sense of calm and being centered, a form of relaxation. On the negative side, since I am primarily still in the closet, there is still a sense of guilt, fear of being found out, money spent on clothes that could be spent on other things, etc. But still I think it is worth it. Don't ask me to explain.

Jaydee

[Sophia de la luz]

Having started only a year ago (I'm 41), it's been quite a journey. At first I dabbled, then said "the heck with it", and gave away all my male clothing. Most of what I wear during work is tame, so it raises only a few eyebrows. At home and on trips though, I go all out and have a lot of fun.
What it has accomplished for me is to help me accept myself for deeply. This has led to a deep calm I am exploring. Growing up I often had a sense of being "wrong" inside or "freakish". I had this tied to family of origin issues. Now, I am not so sure. Allowing myself to express as a hermaphrodite sexually has been wonderful. Allowing space for extreme feminine or masculine has been wonderful. It has allowed the "wrong"ness to evolve into something that contributes to my happiness and the happiness of my wife.
That's the main thing. There are other elements, but I've said enough.

[Tasha McIntyre]

Arianna,
In my case you might of as well ask "What does breathing do for you?" It is part of my being, something I can't stop and can barely control. On the positive side, it provides a sense of calm and being centered, a form of relaxation. On the negative side, since I am primarily still in the closet, there is still a sense of guilt, fear of being found out, money spent on clothes that could be spent on other things, etc. But still I think it is worth it. Don't ask me to explain.

Jaydee


:yt:

I had a few things to say here, but Jaydee summed me up perfectly. To think that I once thought I was the only guy in the universe to want to crossdress (was a long time ago - pre internet). Forums like this shows me there are lots of us out there

Cheers

Tash :)

[Tina B.]

The ying that completes my yang!
Tina

[Tal'Aura]

What does crossdressing accomplish for you?

Jolan Tru,

I think this is a big question that can take a lifetime to fully answer. At present time crossdressing helps me to strenghten my will and focus my mind on positive, empowering thoughts and belief in myself.

[Pink Person]

I don't consider dressing in a feminine manner to be crossdressing if you are a feminine person, but I won't bore you with the details of my dislike for this term. In short, I believe it trivializes behavior that is important to some people and is frequently used in abusive ways to describe them.

I dress in a feminine manner because I am a feminine person and it makes me happy.

Gender self-identification and gender expression are both primary sources of personal happiness.

[Celeste]

I get a brief insight into another world and can express some emotions in a different way. It's a trip thats never quite the same twice in a row.

[Jeannie]

I tried drugs in the 60's and that went no where. I tried alcohol I just felt like hell all the time, so the only things that seem to stave off stress are my wife, my music and cross dressing. Oh yea I forgot computer oriented activities. I love the way the clothes feel and how soft and delicate everything is and shopping for clothes is an electrical charge that is almost un- describable. I just fell like a totally different person and I just can't get enough of it. I guess you could say it's my new drug. My wife is ok with it and as long as I always put her first there is no problem.

[Karren H]

It drains my bank account!!

[Vicky_Scot]

Point: There is no point really. It is part of who I am. I did not choose crossdressing, crossdressing chose me.

Purpose: Do not really think that is the word I would use but I would say to express my true self.

Xx Vicky xX

[Kate Simmons]

So evidently while being mostly a compulsion for some,not to mention time consuming and somewhat expensive, they think it's still worth the effort?

[DAVIDA]

Worth doing? I imagine so!
Personally, crossdressing is my lifestyle, not my hobby.
Vicky is so right! Crossdressing chose me. No more guilt here.

[Stephanie Michelle]

To me I don't consider it crossdresing. It just happens that most of the clothes, jewelry, makeup, and shoes that I like to wear (not often enough) happen to be marketed toward woman and most of society assumes that woman should be the only ones to use these poducts.

Stephanie Michelle

[JoAnne Wheeler]

Crossdressing allows me to express my Femininity to its greatest extent - I

love it, notwithstanding all the baggage that comes along with it. I don't

think I could live without it. My Spouse tolerates it by establishing

boundaries - she is not real crazy about it BUT she knows that if I don't dress

that I implode !

JoAnne Wheeler

"An All American Bluegrass Girl and Proud As I Can Be"

[Kate Simmons]

Keep it coming my friends. I want everyone to understand the passion, feelings and committment behind it. The idea is to understand that it is part of who we are and not just something we "do".:)

[kellycan27]

it makes me not look a girl in men's clothing.:battingeyelashes:

[ReineD]

What I think CDing does for my SO ..

It gives her the opportunity to outwardly express how she feels inside. It temporarily erases every trace of him when she screams for recognition, acceptance, and love. :) And when she gets her fill, he clambers to get out too.

Also, and I may be completely off base here, I've often wondered if his 'guy' hard-wiring to be drawn visually and sexually to the attractive and tempting female form meshes with her gender identification, therefore amplifying her desire to express herself as her ideal of a beautiful woman. I don't know if I've managed to express this correctly.

And last, she told me once she felt so sad not being able to get out of bed, simply throw on a sweater and a pair of jeans, run to the store quickly to get something, and be taken for who she feels inside. :sad:

-------------------------------------------

Arianna and others, this is not particularly in reference to my SO, but I don't understand the sentiment expressed by so many CDers when they speak of how wonderful the clothes make them feel .. Jeannie, I'm sorry to single you out, but your stated very well what I've read here so very often:


I love the way the clothes feel and how soft and delicate everything is and shopping for clothes is an electrical charge that is almost un- describable. I just fell like a totally different person and I just can't get enough of it. I guess you could say it's my new drug.

As a GG, I also enjoy dressing well. I do feel prettier, more feminine when I get out of my blue jeans, but certainly not to the extent Jeannie and so many other CDers have often expressed. I do not understand if the 'electric' feeling of shopping and dressing (the near euphoria) is what CDers define as feeling feminine. I do not mean to be disrespectful, but feeling feminine for GGs has only a little bit to do with clothes. The majority of our femininity comes from deep within; it is the knowledge of what our bodies can and cannot do, how easily in touch we are with our emotions, how we relate to one another and the world around us.

What is feeling feminine to CDers and is the feeling strictly tied to wearing the clothes? In private with an SO or anyone else who sees your inner femme, is the feeling as euphoric without wearing the clothes, forms or makeup?

Maybe this is the right thread for someone to shed some light? :hugs:

If you feel I am hijacking your thread with this part of my post, Arianna, just say the word and I will delete everything below the line.
:love:

[Satrana]

What is feeling feminine to CDers and is the feeling strictly tied to wearing the clothes? In private with an SO or anyone else who sees your inner femme, is the feeling as euphoric without wearing the clothes, forms or makeup?


I would say the euphoria is precisely tied to the temporary nature of crossdressing. Our feminine id is contained like water behind a dam when we are presenting as male. The act of crossdressing is like the dam being blown apart and the sudden rush of water is the euphoria. Obviously this feeling would not exist if we had the freedom to dress every day of our lives as the dam would not exist.

Without the clothes and make-up I do not feel feminine. Without these aids I cannot escape the feeling that I am solely male. Over the years I have integrated some aspects of my femininity into my male persona but there is only so much you can do before eyebrows get raised and people begin whispering behind your back. So I cannot escape my maleness because of the strict male gender role in society. I continue to feel male with just some minor adjustments. However I am personally at peace with this situation as I have got over my dislike of masculinity and infatuation with femininity.

Since there is still a lot more femininity I would like to freely express, the dam is still exists so the euphoria in crossdressing continues.

[Oddlee]

Arianna and others, this is not particularly in reference to my SO, but I don't understand the sentiment expressed by so many CDers when they speak of how wonderful the clothes make them feel .. Jeannie, I'm sorry to single you out, but your stated very well what I've read here so very often:

As a GG, I also enjoy dressing well. I do feel prettier, more feminine when I get out of my blue jeans, but certainly not to the extent Jeannie and so many other CDers have often expressed. I do not understand if the 'electric' feeling of shopping and dressing (the near euphoria) is what CDers define as feeling feminine. I do not mean to be disrespectful, but feeling feminine for GGs has only a little bit to do with clothes. The majority of our femininity comes from deep within; it is the knowledge of what our bodies can and cannot do, how easily in touch we are with our emotions, how we relate to one another and the world around us.

What is feeling feminine to CDers and is the feeling strictly tied to wearing the clothes? In private with an SO or anyone else who sees your inner femme, is the feeling as euphoric without wearing the clothes, forms or makeup?

Maybe this is the right thread for someone to shed some light? :hugs:

:love:

Well, I don't necessarily feel electric while shopping - more usually nervous. And I have to say that bras are not particularly comfortable. Nevertheless, for most of my life I have felt good dressing en femme. The feeling good means that wearing women's clothing somehow seems more appropriate than wearing men's clothing. In my case, it does not mean that I wish to be a woman, or that I think I need to feel feminine. It just means that frequently I prefer wearing women's clothes to men's.

Like Arianna, I don't think of this as masculine or feminine; it's just me...

As for the "feeling femme" not solely relating to clothing, I would have to say that clothing is symbolic as well as the outward manifestation of gender, so that clothing would be important to imitators (imitation being the sincerest form of flattery)...

I'm not sure that this responds to your points, Reine, but I think yours was an interesting and important addition to this thread...

Lee

[MissConstrued]

In years past, it made me hide in a closet, practice deception, sneak around, live with guilt & shame, and even steal stuff. I'm not proud of any of that. It was pathetic. I didn't even have the nerve to talk to a girl -- hell, I ran away when a pretty one asked me to the prom. (Think Stan in "South Park.")

Since I found the confidence to go out pretty in public, let loose and party, it's made me the life of the party. I've managed to make a rather startling 180. I can't say that I owe that to crossdressing, but the combination seems rather appealing to enough GG's that I'll keep my makeup handy. :D

[Kate Simmons]

Well, Reine it is a complex issue and no, I don't think you are hijacking the thread. It's high time these feelings were discussed and brought into the open. I can only liken CDing, that is true CDing to a proxy feeling. We, as men, have no clue how it feels to be a woman, not really. As you say it's a deep inner feeling and a knowing of who you are. We can only approximate that at best. In essense, the clothing, wigs and makeup are an attempt to walk in a whole different world for awhile. Some are successful with self satisfaction to varying degrees, some are not, ergo the frustration of not being able to "pass", etc.

Part of it is the fixed idea or premise that women have it made. Women are naturally pretty and look good and so have to always "feel" pretty, right? So it follows that if I as a guy get in on that I will look and "feel" pretty too, right? Faulty logic I know but this is not about logic, it's about feelings, not to mention the programming runs deep. Who doesn't rembember the old childhood rhyme about what we are made of? Girls are "sugar and spice and everything nice" while boys are "piggins and snails and puppy dog tails" or something like that. No brainer that one.

This desire usually happens early on in life and I believe it's psychodynamic in origin, not to mention physiological. By that I mean I believe some XY folks are genetically inclined to do this by virtue of DNA programming. I personally believe we early on begin to wire our neural network differently or even have two sets of wiring that are intertwined. That would explain the two "personas" (one male, one female)at least. Trying to separate something like that would be impossible and the best thing is probably to get the different wirings to work in concert, which is what I , myself, have attempted to do. This is positive and additive rather than negative and subtractive and is hard work but the result is ourselves being in charge of the feelings and not vice versa.

Anyway, the point is that while many feel the driving force to be feminine and spend time and resources attaining that, it's more often than not much ado about nothing. If we concentrate on being the best person we can be, the rest will fall into place regardless. True femininity is about giving of one's self, caring and sharing. We sometimes have to travel around the block to see the obvious when it was right in front of us all along.:)

[Pink Person]

No, it isn't all about the clothes. No, it isn't all about superficial aspects of femininity. I love it (not) when people, especially women, like to draw boundaries around femininity and how it is expressed that always exclude feminine males and feminine females from ever having any common experiences. The essence of gender is invisible and subjective. Everyone has an emotional physiology that is as real as any other part of their body including the vagina. Humans develop in common physical ways and have common physical attributes that can't be reduced to secondary sex characteristics. Perhaps you are a supreme feminine person, inside and out. Hooray for you. Basic femininity, however, is defined by internal, material, and real physical attributes that can't be visually inspected by anyone. It would be refreshing, if once in a while someone, anyone, acknowledged that gender is more complex than what meets the eye.

[Jonianne]

No, it isn't all about the clothes. No, it isn't all about superficial aspects of femininity.......Basic femininity, however, is defined by internal, material, and real physical attributes that can't be visually inspected by anyone. It would be refreshing, if once in a while someone, anyone, acknowledged that gender is more complex than what meets the eye.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94412

True Femininity

.......Are we sensitive to another persons heart? Do we look in someone's eyes and feel the joy or pain they may have. Do we go out of our way to be friendly and helpful. Do we listen to the feelings being expressed rather than just hearing words. Sometimes "I'm ok", doesn't mean "I'm OK". Are we able to really feel empathy and actually sit in the emotions with another human being, or animal for that matter.

Do we give and sacrifice of our selves to others beyond what we have to. The person in this world I want to be like is my mother. She did not have nice fancy, sexy cloths, but she emminated true femininity more than anyone else I know.

And you don't have to be female to have a feminine heart........

So, I do not want to judge a womans femininity by what she wears. Neither do I want someone to judge my femiminity by the fact that I very much look like a guy no matter how I am dressed. I just want to be judged by my heart.

And thank you FAB's for being there and showing us the way.

I identify with females in so many ways. Crossdressing is just one aspect of fulfilling my need to not be boxed in to a male only gender. I don't want to be stuck in the male only line. I want to be able to be in the female line too. I belong there as well, just as many females don't want to be stuck in the female only line. We are all more complex than that.

[MissConstrued]

......Are we sensitive to another persons heart? Do we look in someone's eyes and feel the joy or pain they may have. Do we go out of our way to be friendly and helpful. Do we listen to the feelings being expressed rather than just hearing words. Sometimes "I'm ok", doesn't mean "I'm OK". Are we able to really feel empathy and actually sit in the emotions with another human being, or animal for that matter.

And you don't have to be female to have a feminine heart........


I don't agree with the inference that having empathic qualities makes one feminine. Ask any father.

Reminds me of a story I heard about the Spanish bullfighter who invited his friends over for a cookout. The friends gave him some grief about the apron he wore while cooking... to which he replied, "I'll have you know, everything I do is masculine!"

If anyone is reinforcing stereotypes, it's those who assign character traits a gender -- my feminine side is this, masculine side is that, etc. Men can be caring, women can be brutal, and that's just how it is. We're all a mixed-up mashup of traits, and to what degree even varies widely here. I very much doubt anyone's brain re-wires itself depending what kind of underwear one puts on in the morning.

A significant majority of us report getting a sexual kick from crossdressing, at least in younger years. I utterly fail to make the connection from that, to this whole "feminine persona" thing. There are plenty of other kinks out there that get people aroused. So why is it that this one -- and only this one -- must mean that I am somehow female inside? Why should I assign myself another name and an alternative personality? Why should I be imputed "feminine" traits simply because I like one kind of underwear rather than another, or because, as a famous member here says, I just like to look pretty now and then?

Who would tell a tomboy that just because she's a girl who likes 4-wheeling she should split her personality, call part of herself Frank, and adopt yet more "masculine" traits? Or suggest she pack a banana in her trousers every time she hops in her Jeep and hits the trail?

I don't buy it. It seems to me just so much pseudo-psychological claptrap. Why can't something just be fun, and leave it at that? Why make excuses?

[Carin]

I had a full post responding to this and I hit some damn control character that closed the window. I hope I can get the essence again.

if his 'guy' hard-wiring to be drawn visually and sexually to the attractive and tempting female form meshes with her gender identification, therefore amplifying her desire to express herself as her ideal of a beautiful woman. I don't know if I've managed to express this correctly.
I think you expressed it very well. This reminds me of the term 'Femmiphile' as described here (http://members.tgforum.com/andeew/TG_Information.html) and defines as "a person who has a love for what our society considers to be feminine and a very strong desire to associate themselves with the feminine. Femiphiles have high admiration for the female and wish to
emulate them as much as possible." The label (yes we hate labels) never really stuck but the concept is valid for at least one niche on the TG spectrum, particularly because it emphasizes the love of the feminine & women without necessarily wanting to be a woman. There is an old thread here (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39031). Putting that with your statement of "meshes with her gender identification, therefore amplifying her desire to express herself as her ideal of a beautiful woman" seems to fit.



What is feeling feminine to CDers and is the feeling strictly tied to wearing the clothes? In private with an SO or anyone else who sees your inner femme, is the feeling as euphoric without wearing the clothes, forms or makeup?
I'll take the bait. For simplification purposes let's hypothesize an 'ideal crossdresser' and an 'ideal transsexual'. The completed transsexual feels her (or his) femininity deep within, without the need for clothes to reinforce that feeling.
If I can use an imperfect analogy (not a model) for the crossdresser. Imagine the crossdresser is a sailor/yachtsman/pirate (imagine Johnny Depp in Pirates OTC if it makes it easier LOL). (S)he can stand on the shore and talk about times at sea. However once (s)he sets sail on the water the feeling is so very different - that euphoric feeling of experiencing the ocean blue. The feeling "on the boat" is different from the feeling "on the shore". The closer one gets to the physical embodiment, the closer one gets in touch with the inner senses, feeding the "strong desire to associate themselves with the feminine".

There is a psychological aspect to 'feeling' feminine, but for the crossdresser there is also a physical association component.

Needless to say - but I will say it anyway - we are all more complex than this. The spectrum is not discrete segments but a more complex space with many pieces overlapping.


:2c:

[Pink Person]

I am willing to believe that some of the males on this site are really very manly men, despite appearances. I am also willing to believe that some males on this site dress in feminine clothing purely for purposes of sexual gratification. Everyone is different in significant ways. However, we are also similar in significant ways. The complexity of our sex and gender characteristics creates a wide range of variation in any population, but it doesn’t reduce our natures to meaningless, neutral, or absurdly differentiated prototypes.

[Shannon]

For me, the simple answer is that it relieves a lot of stress. In my professional work life I'm doing a lot of detailed analyses, developing alternatives, making recommendations, and persuading others. I also have to do a lot listening and integrating diverse opinions and perceptions with factual data. I love my work and what I do. But I also need to escape from it. CD-ing is my great escape.

The more complex answer lies in the process. Dressing up and going out en femme causes me to takes risks and get out of my comfort zone. As a result, I grow. It also enables me to express and experience my femininity. I don't have any desire to change my sex. I enjoy being a MTF crossdresser. I doubt I would enjoy all the feminine things I do if I were a woman. If I was a GG, would I be a FTM crossdresser? I have no idea and don't spend time thinking about it.

Bottom line: It completes me.

[Satrana]

If anyone is reinforcing stereotypes, it's those who assign character traits a gender -- my feminine side is this, masculine side is that, etc.....
Why should I assign myself another name and an alternative personality? .......
Who would tell a tomboy that just because she's a girl who likes 4-wheeling she should split her personality, call part of herself Frank, and adopt yet more "masculine" traits? Or suggest she pack a banana in her trousers every time she hops in her Jeep and hits the trail?

Great post and I think you have just hit the nail on the head with regards to the different developmental routes that separate tomboys from MTF CDs.

The derogatory taboo status of males expressing femininity, which forces us into the closet, has a profound psychological effect on us. In order to circumvent what society conditions us to believe is unnatural, we develop strategies to grant ourselves permission to explore our desires. In essence we initially fantasize and then later physically develop a female alter ego which allows us to safely express whatever behavior we are interested in without stepping into the minefield of guilt, shame and homophobia by being a man in a dress.

By channeling anything we consider feminine into this alter ego, we unwittingly reinforce gender stereotypes and focus on unimportant details between the genders. Where society imposes a six foot high wooden fence between genders, CDs replace that with a twenty foot high concrete wall.

In contrast tomboys go in the opposite direction. With essentially no taboo especially during childhood, and with the championing of girls to enter traditional masculine activities and develop masculine attitudes, tomboys integrate their desires publically. There is no secret closet, there is no alter ego. And although public acceptance may wane during teenage years as many girls conform to traditional feminine behaviors, tomboys need only weather peer pressure until they reach adulthood when they can find a place in society which will accept them they way they are.

I believe that CDs must start thinking more about what life in the closet has done to their personalities and ways of thinking. That experience has changed us, and usually for the worse, so we should be discussing the ramifications in order to repair the damage.

[sometimes_miss]

Arienna Daniels wrote:

So evidently while being mostly a compulsion for some,not to mention time consuming and somewhat expensive, they think it's still worth the effort?

For most, it's not simply a compulsion. Otherwise, you could simply stop it with conventional OCD treatments. Which clearly do not work for us.

MissConstrued wrote:

Who would tell a tomboy that just because she's a girl who likes 4-wheeling she should split her personality, call part of herself Frank, and adopt yet more "masculine" traits? Or suggest she pack a banana in her trousers every time she hops in her Jeep and hits the trail?

And THAT is a great way to put it, if you don't mind my using that when someone asks me why I CD, and yet not embrace all the other parts of female life.

I don't know if the question is even 'right'. It's not whether we 'get something out of it'; it's that we feel that we have to do it, no matter what consequences there are to the behavior. Now, don't try to link sexuality to this analogy, but if you remember way back in time, when boys were told that masturbation would cause hair to grow on our palms, cause us to go blind or crazy, it really didn't stop more than a few people, and then of course it wound up causing other aberrent behavior instead. For most of us, wearing female clothing just feels like something that we must do. For me, it took several decades to figure out why; for some, they may never know. Modern medicine doesn't seem to think there's any need to seek a 'cure' any time soon, so I don't expect our predicament to change. The great minds are working on more important issues rather than figuring out how to stop me from wanting to dress as a pretty cheerleader.
But to answer the original question, what I 'get out of it' is a decrease in the amount of distraction caused by the preoccupation of thoughts that fill my mind with wanting to dress up. If I spend a certain amount of time 'dressed', the desire is kept to a reasonable level the rest of the time, allowing me to function 'normally' and 'be a productive member of society', not to mention keep my sanity.

[Areyan]

For my CDer coming out to me has eliminated the need to drink himself to oblivion to avoid his obviously conflicting feelings about his feminine feelings. Yes, there is a whole lot more to being feminine than just the clothing we wear or how empathetic we are toward others. I really don't know what it is for him other than that perhaps he feels more comfortable with himself knowing that he can express feminine feelings or looking feminine around me. I struggled with acceptance at first and I realise part of it was my own feelings about femininity and masculinity and what it is that separates us. For the most part I've found that the traditional "roles" we are all raised to portray aren't always set in stone. Many women can be as protective as males - take a scenario where a school bully picks on her son/daughter and see the mother's claws come out! This side of the coin can also be reversed where men, too, can be nurturing. Many men are now solo dads or very involved parents in two-parent families and show just as much caring and love for their offspring as do their wives/SOs.

Gender really is a fluid thing at times and I must discuss this further with my CDer to get a true perspective of what CDing does for him, but just from my experience with him as a GG, I feel it makes him feel more complete as a whole person and it has taken away a lot of feelings of shame, pain and being misunderstood. I am a little distracted at present but I will re-visit this topic at some later date and read some more... very interesting points raised here.

:love:

Akira

[Kate Simmons]

All good thoughts. The fact remains, however, that CDing is basically driven by feelings. Unless one acknowledges those feelings, makes them their own and takes ownership of them, the feelings themselves will take over and they and not the person will run the show. When that happens, sometimes reality and rationality go out the window.