Why do we sugar coat things?

[KandisTX]

Seriously, why does everyone here seem to feel that they MUST sugar coat all their responses? We are supposed to all be adults here, and as such we should be able to handle the truth, no matter how blunt or ugly it may be? I am seeing so many threads here where all the answers are "Go for it girl", or "Yeah for you". Why not be honest with the others here and tell it like it is? If I ask a question, I want the truth, I don't want a sugary sweet answer.

Are we afraid the admins will shut down a thread, or maybe ban us from posting? As long as you are not violating the rules, then all should be fine. The point I'm trying to make is that when we see a post, why do we feel we have to be all sunshine and lollipops with our answers?

Kandis:love::rose2:

[Karren H]

Its called being nice. Maybe you've heard of it?

Ohh and on the fourm I mod on.. People who aren't nice.. I'll infracct their ass off the forum in a heart beat.. No place for disrespect or drama!!

[Nicole Erin]

about a year ago I posted some photos of myself and I don't think anyone sugar coated anything.

Thing is, most people are not going to criticize another's looks, especially when most of us are not perfect looking.

[KandisTX]

Its called being nice. Maybe you've heard of it?

Ohh and on the fourm I mod on.. People who aren't nice.. I'll infracct their ass off the forum in a heart beat.. No place for disrespect or drama!!

Oh, I've heard of being nice, the problem I have is people who are CONSTANTLY agreeing with everyone else and not showing any original thought of their own. Now, I'm not saying be evil or mean to the point where the mods will suspend your membership, I'm just wondering if sometimes maybe people are "TOO NICE" as it were.

Kandis:love::rose2:

[Ralph]

I have some pretty strong opinions about stuff and on my blog I don't hold anything back - if something bugs me, I say so and I say why. I posted a comment a few weeks ago that included a link to my blog, and the moderator removed it because after checking my blog she determined that it contained negative statements about the way some people express themselves.

I hasten to add I don't have a problem with that - the owner of a house has every right to set the rules. I'm just saying, not everybody wants the unvarnished truth (or to hear negative opinions). As a card-carrying grouch I welcome harsh honesty, but I can see where that's not always desired... particularly for folks who are new here, just discovering themselves, and looking for some kind of validation and encouragement.

Hey, mods - maybe you could put up a "steel cage" forum where no pretense of civility is necessary?

ralph

[kristinacd55]

Why do we sugarcoat things?
I do read some sugarcoated responses on here, but then again I read some really mean spirited & not so nice posts also. Just like in the rest of my life there are overly nice people, and just as mean people too. I think the people who are sugar coating are just trying to encourage a lot of us who really need encouragement! Frankly, I'd rather be one of those sugarcoaters. :)

Anyway, I'll bet there are a lot of responses to your post. It'll stir things up for sure.

[Marissa]

about a year ago I posted some photos of myself and I don't think anyone sugar coated anything.

Thing is, most people are not going to criticize another's looks, especially when most of us are not perfect looking.

This is a pretty good response as to why you don't see as much bold negative responses on anyone's looks.. even those who pass so well had a journey to get there so any negativity was seen in the past.. nice response.

Oh, I've heard of being nice, the problem I have is people who are CONSTANTLY agreeing with everyone else and not showing any original thought of their own. Now, I'm not saying be evil or mean to the point where the mods will suspend your membership, I'm just wondering if sometimes maybe people are "TOO NICE" as it were.

Kandis:love::rose2:

Kandis, not sure what you want out of those here? Most come here for support and yes, honesty, whether positive or negative. What they don't come for, is bashing or a closed mind.

As far as treading lightly around the mods, well we can't get it right all the time but we can discuss most things. Someone recently posted a question on race and cd treatment. Treading? yes..but the responses are varied and honest, without being vulgar.

And yes i have seen those who say "i beg to differ" or "I don't agee.."

[KandisTX]

Maybe I'm not asking the right question here. I said "sugar coat", but what I'm talking about is when someone posts a response that is NOT positive, or seems to come off as "mean", that poster is jumped on by everyone else when all they did was post their opinion. I've had that happen when I posted the truth that I saw in a situation and two things happened. My post was removed by the mods (as is their right, however I did not break any of the rules of the board), and the thread was closed down. My issue with that is if the moderators had NOT shut down that thread, how many others would have posted the same or similar views as mine? I had posted to someone who was seeking pity from everyone and I posted quite matter of factly that they weren't going to get it from me. I was nice about how I said it, i.e. I was not cruel or vulgar in my response, but I am thinking that the statement I made was "unacceptable" even if it were the truth about the situation.

I have seen trolls posting here in the past get away with more, and those same trolls have gotten the same old "yeah for you" "you go girl" responses, when the posts being made by them were quite obviously full of lies and deceit only attempting to garner pity from the others here on this forum. I for one have grown tired of reading certain peoples threads because I find them to be nothing more than "pity me", or "please tell me I'm pretty" type of threads. Sure, we all need support from our sisters, and those GG's who we are fortunate enough to have in our lives. But the issue I see is that too often too many are constantly posting the 'whoa is me' type of threads.

Kandis:love::rose2:

[AllieSF]

I understand the point that you are making. However, maybe the sugar coating that you see may just be your disagreement in someone else's point of view and opinion. Remember that when people are on a pleasant high (pink fog or otherwise), they may see a lot of mundane things as beautiful. As the say, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". I have also seen many controversial threads with some that get closed by the moderator because of the rising heat in the discussion, which contains a lot of honest and sometimes strong opinions. Regarding honest comments, mine always are. However, as has already been said by others in their responses to this thread, negative comments, unless specifically asked for, are probably much better not said. Constructive criticism is generally good, especially when coated with just a little bit of sugar. It is much better for everyone's health and enjoyment. IMHO!

[valery]

It's all about the love, as we all want love and respect and that's the reason why people do that, sugar coat here means just to fill that lonely feeling trying to get some love although (great topic by the way) it's not a good idea to peter out. It's a world problem so it's not a transgender problem but a great point here !!!

[Katelyn]

In my opinion:

Reason 1



Are we afraid the admins will shut down a thread, or maybe ban us from posting?

Reason 2


Its called being nice.

I also only comment if I feel I have something positive to contribute. Ususally from my own personal experiences.

:2c:

[GaleWarning]

I have said this before, and I shall say it again ...
It's not what you say, but the way that you say it!

Criticism should be stated in a way which does not demean or demoralise the person being criticized. Criticism should be constructive, not destructive and so it ought to be followed by some sensible, positive suggestion for a possible means of improvement.

It is often said that criticism couched in a humourous way is more pallatable, but in my view, few people have a sufficiently good sense of humour, and too easily fail to see the funny side, so I tend to avoid trying to be funny when being critical.

And to end, I support what some others have already said; it is easier and more helpful to be nice, than to be nasty. Reading many of the posts on this site, I am struck by the conviction that too many of us have never (or at least, hardly ever) been properly affirmed in our lives.

I feel it is better to build up someone's ego, even through constructive criticism, than it is to thoughtlessly destroy it simply because we feel that our point of view is superior to theirs.

[Karren H]

Oh, I've heard of being nice, the problem I have is people who are CONSTANTLY agreeing with everyone else and not showing any original thought of their own. Now, I'm not saying be evil or mean to the point where the mods will suspend your membership, I'm just wondering if sometimes maybe people are "TOO NICE" as it were.

Kandis:love::rose2:

Well people have a right to agree with anyone in any manner they wish.. Personally if I don't agree with someone I will tell them.. Kind of like right now! :). But I refuse to degrade someone for a valent attempt!! Hell it takes a ton of guts just to come out here and post..

And there's nothing wrong with a little support.. I seriously doubt anyone would be here is every time they said something or posted a photo everyone ripped into them? I'd be gone in a heartbeat!! You want honesty I'll let you talk to my wife!! Hahaha

[joann07]

I like to be nice, while at the same time I apply constructive criticism.

Hugs!

[Pink Person]

I know what you mean. Sometimes it seems that people aren't really being responsive to the thread at all but are more interested in promoting themselves in an artificially sweet manner.

Huggles, snuggles...barf.

P.S. It's okay to laugh.

[sissystephanie]

I like to be nice, while at the same time I apply constructive criticism.

Hugs!

Those of you who have read many of my posts will realize that I am similar to Joann in this regard. I don't answer many threads simply because I don't have anything constructive to offer. I have never believed in "sugarcoating" things! Just ask my two children! LOL!! My replies to threads come straight from my heart, and always will!

[celtic.blue.eyes]

Seriously, why does everyone here seem to feel that they MUST sugar coat all their responses? We are supposed to all be adults here, and as such we should be able to handle the truth, no matter how blunt or ugly it may be? I am seeing so many threads here where all the answers are "Go for it girl", or "Yeah for you". Why not be honest with the others here and tell it like it is? If I ask a question, I want the truth, I don't want a sugary sweet answer.

<snip> The point I'm trying to make is that when we see a post, why do we feel we have to be all sunshine and lollipops with our answers?

Kandis:love::rose2:

I can certainly understand what Kandis is talking about, because there are many times when any kind of constructive criticism is avoided in order to "sugar coat" a response.

Quite a few times I have seen some one post a picture with the question "How do I look?" because the individual wants to get out and do some shopping. So we see a picture of some poor dude in a sleeveless dress with boobs sticking out about 8", a cheap wig and pantyhose. He hasn't shaven, he has hair growing out from under his arms, hairy arms, and hairy legs under the pantyhose. In addition, he has a puss on his face that would scare off an angry mountain lion. If this poor guy actually goes out in public like this, he'll get laughed at for sure, his ego destroyed, and probably get his butt and face kicked in.

So what are a lot of the responses? "Oh, You look great", "That's a beautiful dress", "Have a great time" etc., when the fact is not one of those "sugar coaters" would dare go out looking like that. These kind of responses may sound nice at first, but are in the long run so destructive.

Yes, we can honestly evaluate constructively, and word it so that is nice. But any one that might respond with something remotely negative, like
"even hairy women don't have 1/10 that amount of hair, you may want to consider a long sleeve dress",
or
"a pair of opaque tights might be more becoming",
or
"a pretty smile goes a long way"
will get jumped on. The poor guy was asking for help, truly needs the help and he wasn't getting it. Instead he gets false hope and unwarranted confidence that will be totally destroyed.

So many GG's have remarked about the importance of honesty, but is seems we can't even be honest among ourselves.

OK, I going to duck while I get jumped on.....

[Karen564]

If someone wants the truth, I'll give it to them, it's plain & simple.. but I still try not to be rude about it..

Much depends on what the subject is & what section of the forum your in.

But If someone is posting a picture or a simple statement because they feel good about themselves, well who am I to rain on their parade?? I wont do it, sorry.. It's just not me..and never was.

It's just a much better feeling to say something Nice & Sweet, rather than to be mean or critical towards a Member here, I think there's enough of that abuse in the world as it is, so now you want to bring it in here too..??

Take 2 sugars & call me in the morning..:evilbegon

Karen

[docrobbysherry]

Mite be one of the reasons so few r critical here! I know MY CLOSET is pratically solid glass!:eek:

As for opinions, they're kind of like "A" holes, everyone has one!
That doesn't mean u have to BE one!:brolleyes:

AND, it doesn't mean everyone needs to hear your opinion, specially if it's mostly CRAP!:Angry3:

[linnea]

I think that you are just to foment discord. When a member of this site asks for an opinion, my impression is that she gets opinions. When a member makes an announcement about a new adventure or one of the many baby-steps some of us take in our CD journey, I think that she usually gets encouragement.
Of course, some of the responses may be tempered or coated with sugar, but as Karren has already said, "It called being nice." There's nothing wrong with that; as a matter of fact, it should be encouraged.
By stating, as you have, that the responses on this site are sugar-coated, you are making a gross over-generalization, impuning the honor of our community, and encouraging discontent. Nice going.

[jennydl]

Hi Kandis,
some people on this forum want to be told the truth, they usually ask for it in their posts.
Others don't.
If a sasquatch in a dress asks , do I look pretty?the answer is yes,you're a pretty girl.
Why?Because they are looking for acceptance and support.They aren't looking to be judged or ridiculed.

Jenny

[Hope]

There is a difference between "sugar coating," and carefully choosing one's words, or being careful with the feelings of another.

When my wife asks "how do I look in this outfit" I can respond by saying "You look like a water retaining sea-cow" or I can say "That is not the most flattering thing I have seen you in today." Both might be true - but one shows an awareness of another person's emotions, and a concern for those emotions. The other response is the response of an socially awkward jerk.

They are called social "skills" for a reason.

[Jonianne]

Sugar coating is not usually a bad thing. Why force someone to drink casteroil when cherry flavored cough syrup works just as well. Sometimes you need to "have a heart" when you speak from the heart. Gentleness and kindness is not just a female thing.

[Lisa Golightly]

I'm too polite... I tend to avoid making positive comments about something I can not be positive about... Silence is politeness.

[melissacdx]

We come here for the sugar coating, if i wanted ridicule and brutality, i'd go any number of other places...we're all underdogs here, so we we need to be propped up, we ask inane questions, like, how do i look, what do you think of this dress, etc...

jesus, do any of you really understand women? when a girl asks you if you like her dress or if her bum looks big, we all know that's not what she's asking, she's looking for a little boost, or a pep talk, or some basic validation -- we're all doing the same thing here...we're going to do what we're going to do, we're just coming here for a shot of confidence.

im surprised by the responses -- this is standard girl 101 -- when feeling blue, ask an innocuous question and hope that someone has enough sense to realize there is more behind it.

for what its worth...

[Shari]

I for one, will never sugar coat anything.

Make no mistake, there are some real beauties here, and I have given the proper compliments where due.

To me it's almost cruel to tell King Kong in a dress she's pretty. She's liable to believe it and go out, be ridiculed or beat up or worse.

Nor will I tell them "Be careful, you'll frighten the children."

My best advice is that if nothing can be positively stated, and you especially can't stand to read some of the comments that would cause a diabetic seizure, hit the back button and move onto the next thread.

[Sheila]

I don't sugar coat anything ... I do mainly try not to let my frustrations, on MY BAD DAYS, take over if I am replying to someone who had pi**ed me off on any given subject .. don't always manage it ...... the responce might/would have been gengtler on another day but whatever I do say is said with honesty at all times..
Sometimes when you are replying to a post continually knocking one section or another words can become very heated, & I am guilty of getting mad at the GG CDING when we wear trousers remark and my patience is very thin on comments like that :o:o

[Kate Simmons]

Who's sugarcoating? I always say what is on my mind and what is in my heart. I told Admin long ago if they deem something I say inappropriate, I have no problem with them deleting it. While I do read most threads, I don't necessarily respond unless I feel it's appropriate to the subject matter. :)

[Pink Person]

It's a false dilemma. Most of us fall somewhere between these two extremes most of the time.

It's fun to be a Pollyanna once in a while (don't deny it). It's also fun to be a witch occasionally. If you are being a Pollyanna and someone notices it, don't turn into a witch to defend yourself or attack other people. True Pollyannas and witches never apologize for their behavior.

[Sandra]

I don't sugar coat anything, especially if I reply in the photo gallery. What's the point of saying "wow you look great", when there's 5 o clock shadow, made up and looking like a clown and clothes that don't fit, surely it's much better to say ok "you need a little more cover on the lip and chin, tone the makeup down a bit etc".

Constructive criticism never hurt anyone, but if all you want to hear is a load of sighs and "you go girl", well it isn't going to come from me.

[Kate Simmons]

I pretty much agree with what Sandra said. Something to bear in mind though.Some folks have fragile egos to begin with. Being a man trying to look like a woman is a double whammy, so I tend to tread lightly when critiquing. In any case I generally accept others for being who they are, whether they, themselves, do or not.:)

[Jess_cd32]

........... I'm just wondering if sometimes maybe people are "TOO NICE" as it were.

Kandis:love::rose2:

Maybe some are but I don't see that many, most tell it like it is and are genuine in what they say and feel, some go alittle to far IMHO regarding critisizm. This is a support forum, so supporting comments are expected moreso.

[Stephanie Michelle]

I don't think anyone signed up here to get blasted whenever they post a thread. Most of us are her for a common goal, to be accepted for who we are even though it is not "mainstream". Yes, we might not all get along and we all have different opinions, but that is life. Am old saying I learned years ago, SOME WILL SOME WON'T SO WHAT NEXT. I don't get all bent out of shape because some had a comment I don't agree with. If I don't agree I might say something how ai view it but will not slam the other person for their view, (unless they are factually wrong or just plain mean). As a I don't post alot just because if I can't inject some new thoughts or comments I will not add another post that had been said several times before. I am not saying no one esle should do that too. If you want to post "I agree" or "yea me too", thats Ok it is just not me.

Stephanie Michelle

[janexx]

Kandis,

First it saddens me that you think most of us being "nice" to each other is a bad thing.

Second I have had some straightforward replies to some stuff I have written but those replies have always been nice and polite.

Thirdly - you realy did make me think seriously about why I have a strong feminin side, choose to dress and am a member of this forum and my conclusion is that "en fem" I realy am a much nicer and kinder person than the fairly nice chap I am in drab (hopyfully). So while here on line, if you don't mind, I will stay that nicer and kinder person.

So maybe the reason we are all, from your position, Sugar Coated is that when we are chatting to our sisters we simply can't help having a positive and loveing aproach.

I do - so there!!

Truly, much love,

Jane

[JoAnne Wheeler]

No SUGAR here - I think that I have tried to give an HONEST response every

time I have made a post - sometimes there is a fine line between being nice

and being blunt - I like to think that my sisters on this FORUM would rather be

nice to one another - there is a word called "TACT" - you might want to look

it up - when I have started a thread; made a post or posted a picture, I feel

that my Sisters have been both honest and constructive.

JoAnne Wheeler

"An All American Bluegrass Girl and Proud As I Can Be"

[Karen564]

I'm too polite... I tend to avoid making positive comments about something I can not be positive about... Silence is politeness.

I with you there Lisa,
My parents taught me, if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all..

I sure wish more people would apply that on all the negative comments I see on Youtube, especially music videos, my whole thing on that is, if they think they could to better, then wheres their video to prove it.. it boils down to all BS talk, with no substance, and I just dont see how taking the time to being so negative is going to help or do anything, other than hurt or upset someones feelings.

Fin,

Karen

[trisha59]

I am seeing so many threads here where all the answers are "Go for it girl", or "Yeah for you". Kandis:love::rose2:

It could be that we truly mean "Go for it girl", or "Yeah for you".

[donnaking]

Why do we sugar coat things?
Because the overwhelming majority of people don't come here for honesty. It's all about the fantasy.

[KandisTX]

Kandis,

First it saddens me that you think most of us being "nice" to each other is a bad thing.


I never said it was a "bad thing" to be "nice". My question was why it appears that many people are "too nice" with their responses, when the reality of the situation is the person asking for criticism should receive criticism, whether constructive or instructive.



Second I have had some straightforward replies to some stuff I have written but those replies have always been nice and polite.


I have as well, and I appreciate the bluntness in many cases. I did come here for support, but if I am way off base with a concept or a thought about my appearance or an idea, I would hope that I could/would recieve the truth.


Thirdly - you realy did make me think seriously about why I have a strong feminin side, choose to dress and am a member of this forum and my conclusion is that "en fem" I realy am a much nicer and kinder person than the fairly nice chap I am in drab (hopyfully). So while here on line, if you don't mind, I will stay that nicer and kinder person.


By all means, I am not asking anyone to change who they are, I was merely inquiring as to what I perceived as being the "status quo".


So maybe the reason we are all, from your position, Sugar Coated is that when we are chatting to our sisters we simply can't help having a positive and loveing aproach.

I do - so there!!

Truly, much love,

Jane

Chatting I can understand in some threads, but I am talking about the threads where the person is asking "How do I look"?, or "I want to do this, what do you think"?

Kandis:love::rose2:

[CharlotteW]

Totally agree with Lisa Golightly, "silence is politeness", and I reckon many on this forum feel and act the same way.

[gretchen2]

some girls are just sweet, and there is nothing wrong with that. for me if i want a little male criticism then i take my dress off and go to work and pound some nails into the wrong board.
gretchen

[Karren H]

I would be embarassed to no end to accuse other people of sugar coating things... Especially is someone said I had a perky butt!!

People with perky butts shouldn't throw stones!!

Hahaha

Your not going to live this perky butt thing down any time soon!! :D

[KandisTX]

I would be embarassed to no end to accuse other people of sugar coating things... Especially is someone said I had a perky butt!!

People with perky butts shouldn't throw stones!!

Hahaha

Your not going to live this perky butt thing down any time soon!! :D

Coming from you Karren dear, I'll take that as quite a compliment ;)

Kandis:love::rose2:

[JulieK1980]

I think a lot of people confuse constructive criticism with criticism. I see no reason to say negative things about anything unless I have reasoning and some form of evidence to back up my idea (not always the best evidence mind you but I have to have a reasoning to give disagreement) Disagreeing and posting criticism without anything to back it up is a useless as the sugarcoating you are talking about.

[scarlett]

Kandis is absolutely right. On this forum we should value honesty, not betray it with sugarcoated fantasies.Especially when someone asks for a critique and gets a page or two of false compliments.
Now to be blunt. I had a post deleted sometime back when I questioned a poster who implied that that she walked in off the street and was square dancing. My parents were avid square dancers and I am well aware that you can't do anything without about 6 weeks of lessons.
Let's keep this forum about truth, not fantasy. If it ain't so we should feel free to say so. If your feelings are that delicate then pull on your jeans and go out with the boys.

[vikki2020]

We come here for the sugar coating, if i wanted ridicule and brutality, i'd go any number of other places...we're all underdogs here, so we we need to be propped up, we ask inane questions, like, how do i look, what do you think of this dress, etc...

jesus, do any of you really understand women? when a girl asks you if you like her dress or if her bum looks big, we all know that's not what she's asking, she's looking for a little boost, or a pep talk, or some basic validation -- we're all doing the same thing here...we're going to do what we're going to do, we're just coming here for a shot of confidence.

im surprised by the responses -- this is standard girl 101 -- when feeling blue, ask an innocuous question and hope that someone has enough sense to realize there is more behind it.

for what its worth...


100% agree! We come from all over the world here, but we all have a lot in common.And it's remarkable how similar our lives were growing up, how and when we started dressing,and finding our way here. Sugercoating, being nice, or whatever you want to call it,it's more of an understanding of where your coming from when asked to comment.

[Intertwined]

For me, its common courtesy. Sure, I have negative thoughts about some of the posts, I was taught, " if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all "

There has been posts that have really pissed me off, I leave that tread and never go back, I have enough negativiity in my life, I come here looking for postitive things, am I living in a dream world? Yea, sure I am, but, its my dream, I don't want it to become a nightmare.

[Carin]

Maintaining a forum is one of the hardest things to do on the Internet. The moderators and Admins are going to p**s some people off. You can not please all of the people all of the time. In most cases I applaud the closing of threads that are spiraling negatively. Insensitive comments get moderated. The alternative to moderation is flame war, and that is a certain recipe for the death of a forum. Yes this is not directly to the point of the OP, but relevant to some of the responses.

I know in the past week I have used the phrase "I beg to differ.." more than once. Constructive criticism is constructive. Raw criticism can be destructive. It doesn't have to be that way.

I haven't said it in awhile so...
Thank you to the Admins and moderators for the hard work and walking that tight rope in maintaining the balance that makes this site one of the most constructive transgender sites on the Internet.
:rose2: :rose2: :rose2: :rose2: :rose2: :rose2: :rose2: :rose2: :rose2: :rose2:

[MissConstrued]

jesus, do any of you really understand women? when a girl asks you if you like her dress or if her bum looks big,


I'm so sorry! I've been operating under the (apparently) mistaken impression that this forum is mainly populated by men! I mean, the top of this section says "Male to Female Crossdressers," not "Women," but then, maybe it's my public school reading comprehension skills showing through?

This kind of crap is extremely insulting to the real women -- you know, the ones with vaginas and two "X" chromosomes. At least, that's what I learned in biology class. Public school, though, like I said, so I may be mistaken. Hmm?

Not to mention, it's insulting to the public intelligence, whatever of that there is. No wonder "normal" people shake their heads and think a bloke in a frock is a freak.

[Emma1976]

Kinda reiteraiting some of the points already here but here goes..
Usually I operate the 'if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing' approach. Stops you looking like a troll and avoids feeding trolls:Peace:
The thing with oppinions is how they're expressed. Example;

Christ, you look like a bucket of smashed crabs

your make up / hair / whatever isn't quite right, here's some advice / website you might find useful.

Technically both could be the same thing, the difference is one helpful, the other is just being an 4rse

Just my
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XkyaXZ1rRaU/RXRE0SQMclI/AAAAAAAAABM/DLXDihPMo74/s400/2p+piece.jpg
worth:)

[Karren H]

So lame!!!! But I guess crossdressers are notorius liars!! lol

So now if you say something nice then your lying and if you say something critical then your being mean!!

Maybe we should start a new forum!! The mean girls m2f forum!! Where if you can't say something critical, then sit on your hands??

[Sara Jessica]

I'm too polite... I tend to avoid making positive comments about something I can not be positive about... Silence is politeness.

As I read the responses, this is the sentiment I was looking for. Silence is not only politeness but it also amounts to sugarcoating when perhaps constructive criticism is in order.


...you realy did make me think seriously about why I have a strong feminin side, choose to dress and am a member of this forum and my conclusion is that "en fem" I realy am a much nicer and kinder person than the fairly nice chap I am in drab (hopyfully). So while here on line, if you don't mind, I will stay that nicer and kinder person.

Something else I was thinking of as well. Some of us identify with our being rather than simply dressing and as such, a more polite woman might come to the surface...hopefully one who is in touch with the emotions, feelings and behavior of those who were born with the "correct" chromosomes. I have 100% respect for women, I don't believe my desire to be true to my being is in any way insulting to them, nor to the public at large.

[Jonianne]

.......Silence is not only politeness but it also amounts to sugarcoating when perhaps constructive criticism is in order.......

As a participant (and not the admin), this site is more of a support group than a therapy group. In therapy groups, yes, you say exactly what is on your mind or it doesn't work. A support group is not designed for that purpose. It is to support the person in a gentle and kind way if possible. And that means sugarcoating sometimes. Save the raw stuff for therapy groups, unless requested otherwise.

[Marie O]

I thought the idea of this group was to support each other, if the person posting feels good with their choice of clothing, makeup, ect, then we should support and make them feel good! If they are looking for a honest opinion then they ask for it! At least that the what I have seen in most of the posts!

[Vicky_Scot]

I thought the idea of this group was to support each other, if the person posting feels good with their choice of clothing, makeup, ect, then we should support and make them feel good! If they are looking for a honest opinion then they ask for it! At least that the what I have seen in most of the posts!

There is support and there is support.

Is it support to tell someone they look great, you pass no problem etc etc when you are sitting thinking there is no hope in hell you will pass or look good.

If someone comes on and asks for opinions on how they look, they deserve people to be honest. This does not mean being rude or nasty etc but they do not deserve to be giving false hope or told blatant lies.

Xx Vicky xX

[Sara Jessica]

As a participant (and not an admin), this site is more of a support group than a therapy group. In therapy groups, yes, you say exactly what is on your mind or it doesn't work. A support group is not designed for that purpose. It is to support the person in a gentle and kind way if possible. And that means sugarcoating sometimes. Save the raw stuff for therapy groups, unless requested otherwise.

I didn't say anything about being raw. Constructive is the operative word. You can offer such criticism in a nice way without necessarily sugarcoating.

And I don't see this site so much as a support group but everyone probably has their own take on what this is all about. I see it as social and in my social settings, I appreciate when my friends call me out if something is amiss.

[Jonianne]

.......You can offer such criticism in a nice way without necessarily sugarcoating.......

Sara, we are not that far apart, if at all. My point is that "criticism in a nice way" is what I call sugarcoating and there is nothing wrong with that.

Cherry flavored cough syrup rather than casteroil. Does the same job.

[MissConstrued]

Cherry flavored cough syrup rather than casteroil. Does the same job.

In the spirit of that analogy, kids didn't get sick as often back in the castor oil days. They didn't want to be sick, and would never pretend to be (to miss school) as long as Dr. Mom had a bottle of the stuff. :eek:

But then, I was that annoying kid who pointed out, upon hearing that honey attracted more flies than vinegar, that what really attracted them was fresh bullsh*t. :devil:

I could never understand, though, why anyone would want to attract the wee beasties.

[CharleneT]

We do err on the sugary side .... but this is a place for support and I'd rather err on the nice side vs. "too honest". After you've read a few hundred posts here I think you can tell when someone is just feeding you bon bon's, as apposed to good advice. Both are useful !

[Ralph]

Is it support to tell someone they look great, you pass no problem etc etc when you are sitting thinking there is no hope in hell you will pass or look good.

I totally agree. You tell someone they look great when they really have enough clown makeup on to put Ringling Brothers out of business and clothes that only a $2 hooker would wear, and they take that to heart, go out shopping or dining, and get slammed (or even physically assaulted), whose fault is that? The people who were being "nice" and "supportive", or the person who believed them?

I'll grant you, there are probably better ways of saying it than "Your makeup makes you look like a clown and nobody but a $2 hooker would wear that skirt", but if you sugarcoat your advice too much the listener won't hear the warning bells. Sometimes you have to be blunt with a friend to make sure he or she knows you're serious and concerned. I know *I'm* like that - "Ralph, that's a very interesting look but it's not entirely convincing." "So what are you trying to say? Different color neon lip gloss? Darker leather corset? Add another couple of layers of foundation?"

ralph

[mykhelee]

I always use the honesty is the best policy, I never intend to hurt anyones feelings but, if you want a pretty story instead of the truth then get a romance novel.

[Kelsy]

Can I be my positive self here and ask -
isn't posible to be truthful in a sweet sugar coated way!?
now " if you have nothing good to say then say it in a constructive way"

Kelsy:D

[Penny]

This is a post about a post about posts. Well, this seems that I am being somewhat redundant. Many here use poor grammar, spelling (not my strong suit) and sentences very difficult to understand. All of this matters little as long as you remember that the pupose of the forum is to provide an outlet for whatever reason for our members.

It is not so important what someone says as it is that they belong. Making someone feel welcome is the responsibility of each of us. So, sometimes posts are "sugar coated". Many have left here feeling that they are not welocome and that is unfortunate given the make up of the forum.

Sincerity of purpose is not necessarily being insincere.

Politics would be a whole different ballgame.

:hugs:

Penny

[Tamara Croft]

Are we afraid the admins will shut down a thread, or maybe ban us from posting? As long as you are not violating the rules, then all should be fine.I think people do not like upsetting others, they post nice to lift a persons spirit, especially if they are posting pictures. If someone posted a picture and you posted... 'hey, you are one sorry ugly looking ass'... you're damn right it would be deleted. People don't need that here, but it's not sugar coating anything. If they ask for constructive critisism, then it's yours to give. I don't sugar coat anything, I say how I feel relevant to the thread, with the exception of picture threads, members don't need to be told if they don't look great. If I said to you, you look like a cross between Jesus and a fairy in your avatar, would you be offended by that? not very sugar coated is it.... nor is it nice...

[Holly]

Sorry... I just don't buy the premise that you can't be honest without being hurtful. Constructive comments are meant to be just that... constructive. Telling someone that they look like the south end of a northbound horse is not the least bit helpful. Offering a suggestion for a more convincing look be it a different top, a change of makeup, etc. is much more productive, IMO.

[janexx]

I just deleted my slightly tart reply a few mesages ago because I realised I had transgressed the main reason I love this site.

To be among friends!

What else in the world matters more?

And while we can all find a polite and understanding way to tell, or give, my friends bad news I hope I would never be hurtfull - ever.

Tell it like it is, by all means, but, please tell it as you would to your best friend. Thats kind of why I spend so much time here - the truth delivered by a kind friend.........

Usualy a very generous friend.

Much love, Jane

[Lisa Golightly]

Trouble is you never really know just how fragile the people you are writing to are... Having worked with many really down angels, a simple criticism can be the comment that puts someone into an almost terminal decline... Been there and experienced it. There are a lot of strong characters on these forums and there are equally a number of very desperate people... Just think before you post especially if you are going to be 'constructive'. For some it's enough to act as a fullstop.

[KandisTX]

Tamara,

Your post is one of the reasons I respect you and the other admins on this site.
I think people do not like upsetting others, they post nice to lift a persons spirit, especially if they are posting pictures. If someone posted a picture and you posted... 'hey, you are one sorry ugly looking ass'... you're damn right it would be deleted.

As well it should be. That is a pure venom and honestly quite hurtful to someone. I am asking about why say "You look great", if you know that they look like a man in a dress? I know that some of us are still deeply in the closet in our personal lives, and do not wish to venture out because there is no way that we would pass. (Some of them have openly admitted that on this forum). There are others that want to go out but aren't sure if they pass and they ask. There are others that go out don't pass and don't care because that's who they are. There are all levels of sisters here on this forum which I love about this place. I am just curious is all.


People don't need that here, but it's not sugar coating anything. If they ask for constructive critisism, then it's yours to give. I don't sugar coat anything, I say how I feel relevant to the thread, with the exception of picture threads, members don't need to be told if they don't look great. If I said to you, you look like a cross between Jesus and a fairy in your avatar, would you be offended by that? not very sugar coated is it.... nor is it nice...

Well, I think I'd be flattered if I were compared to Jesus honestly. I know I do not pass 100% as a female, but I like to think that I do a good enough job to be able to interact with others outside and be able to enjoy Kandis time in public. That picture in particular is from a drag show I am involved with at the Texas Renaissance Festival called the UnQueenly Pageant. It's supposed to be a campy type show and our costumes are exaggerated. Now, if I were to dress as I would dress to go out in public for a night out and post pictures, I am sure the reaction would be quite differant depending on what type of venue I happened to be going to that night.

Kandis:love::rose2:

[Intertwined]

This kind of crap is extremely insulting to the real women -- you know, the ones with vaginas and two "X" chromosomes. At least, that's what I learned in biology class. Public school, though, like I said, so I may be mistaken. Hmm?

HEY Hey hey... I have two "X" chromosmes & one "Y", and I don't have a " V " (starting to sound like alphabet soup). Sorry, I know this has little bearing on this thread but could not resist pointing that out.


I am asking about why say "You look great", if you know that they look like a man in a dress?

Your making an assumption of trying to pass, when someone says to me (and its happened) "You look great, for a guy in a skirt", I take that as the biggest compliment in the world, because thats what I am shooting for.

[Crissy Kay]

Why do we sugar coat things?
Because the overwhelming majority of people don't come here for honesty. It's all about the fantasy.
I have to agree with Don on this,[Lisa GL] too!!! In cding, we are pretending and rollplaying to a large degree. If we can give a little support to some of the members here, I don"t see anything wrong with that.

[Tal'Aura]

Seriously, why does everyone here seem to feel that they MUST sugar coat all their responses?

Jolan Tru,

Well, I suggest that you took some psychology course. That so called "sugar coat things" are a great way to motivate and encourage someone, even if t's obvious that they will have to work a lot more. You don't need anyone to tell you the naked truth. Just stand in front of mirror. We all have the same set of eyes...

[Ralph]

Your making an assumption of trying to pass, when someone says to me (and its happened) "You look great, for a guy in a skirt", I take that as the biggest compliment in the world, because thats what I am shooting for.

My earlier comments would apply to anyone - if someone asked me how he or she looks and I think there is enough makeup troweled on to paint the Sistine Chapel, I'll say so. I think men *and* women look like clowns when they slather on all those reds, blues, and purples. So yeah, if you look attractive as a man in a dress, good on ya. But if you look like a train wreck and ask my opinion, I'll give it to you.

And Tal'Aura, we dont' all have the same set of eyes. What you see in a mirror is what you *want* to see much of the time. Getting an objective opinion from someone who has your best interest at heart can help you avoid making a stupid mistake. Telling someone who looks awful "you look great" isn't motivating or encouraging them; it's likely to make them believe that their appearance won't cause them any problems when in fact it will. I'm pretty sure taking a psychology course wouldn't teach you to lie to people just to make them feel good when in the long run it will only do them harm.

ralph

[Kate Jennings]

Always try to be nice when posting...respect others, only post if you have something to add...I do agree there is a bit of "candy coating" that goes on on this board and at times it bothers me.

I also don't want to see this board ever become a crude sex site, but, gang the mere mention of the word "sex" shouldn't punished. Much of what we do can, at least for some, be related to sex.

All in all I like the site and like my sugar in Ice Cream!

[Carin]

OK yall, I've been keeping score. As a public service I have accumulated the sugar words and phrases and the spice words and prases from this thread.
So for future reference when you need help sugar coating your response to any topic, you can use the sugar bowl as your thesarus, and when you want to lay the spice it out there you can choose from the spice rack.

Sugar bowl :battingeyelashes:
sugar coat
Go for it girl
Yeah for you
sunshine and lollipops
nice
encouragement
you go girl
funny
valiant
constructive criticism
That's a beautiful dress
Have a great time
Sweet
encouraged
acceptance
support
boost
validation
confidence
beauties
pretty
Pollyanna
polite
positive
TACT
fantasy
common courtesy
my dream
motivate
great

The Spice rack :eek:
blunt
ugly
mean
mean spirited
bashing
closed mind
vulgar
cruel
demean
demoralise
destroy
degrade
ripped into
cheap
scare off an angry mountain lion
destructive
negative
rude
abuse
CRAP
"A" holes
discontent
sasquatch in a dress
judge
barrel of vinegar
You look like a water retaining sea-cow
awkward jerk
ridicule
brutality
King Kong in a dress
Be careful, you'll frighten the children
cause a diabetic seizure
Witch
looking like a clown
blasted
upset
negativity
nightmare
bloke in a frock is a freak
Christ, you look like a bucket of smashed crabs
lame
notorious liars
no hope in hell you will pass or look good
nasty
fresh bullsh*t
enough clown makeup on to put Ringling Brothers out of business
clothes that only a $2 hooker would wear
one sorry ugly looking ass'
look like the south end of a northbound horse
hurtfull
venom
enough makeup troweled on to paint the Sistine Chapel
slather on
look like a train wreck
stupid
awful

:lol::lol::Peace::tongueout

[Tal'Aura]

Telling someone who looks awful "you look great" isn't motivating or encouraging them; it's likely to make them believe that their appearance won't cause them any problems when in fact it will.

Believe whatever you like. In my opinion, there are no awful or ugly crossdressers, just a different.

Jolan Tru

[Ralph]

Believe whatever you like. In my opinion, there are no awful or ugly crossdressers, just a different.

Fair enough. But I'm not suggesting we warn scary-looking -- I mean, "different" -- CDers away from you personally; I'm saying if someone wants to go out in public looking like they do, that person should be cautioned that doing so may lead to large amounts of ridicule and/or social rejection with a possibility of physical abuse thrown in for good measure.

I understand there are folks who are strong-minded enough to be aware of those risks and not care, and more power to them! But if someone is given the message "go for it, girl, you look great" and they skip out thinking the world will love them (or, potentially more dangerous, thinking they will pass when in fact they don't stand a chance), that's a Bad Thing.

Carin, I laughed my panties off reading your list of sugar and spice comments! You have WAY too much time on your hands!

ralph

[MissConstrued]

But I'm not suggesting we warn scary-looking -- I mean, "different" -- CDers away from you personally;


Cool! "Different" = "Bucket of smashed crabs."

As in, "Love your look... it's different!"

[Sally2005]

The sugar coating keeps the chocolate from melting on your fingers. If the coating was gone, even though you like the candy you might get upset as the melted chocolate gets all over everything and have a less enjoyable overall experience. The coating is important.

[docrobbysherry]

Like the song says, honesty CAN BE VERY HELPFUL!

When I first arrived here over a year ago, I had been CDing alone in my closet with NO feedback from anyone, for over 9 years. I thot a was pretty hot stuff! What I REALLY was, was used to my own image!:eek:

Back then, I received a few shocking negative posts attached to my pics. I found THOSE more HELPFUL than the "sugar coated" posts! Altho, the positive ones kept me from feeling shattered!:doh:

In the year plus since then, I've tried hard to; change/improve/modify my looks. And in that time, folks here r probably getting used to me, too! Still, I feel I've progressed more from the frank opinions of my pics, than in the previous 5+ years, with NO HONEST feedback!:eek:

There's NOTHING quite like seeing something thru another's eyes! It kind of like seeing it for the FIRST TIME! :brolleyes:

[ggtracy]

For the most part, I typically see positive comments on here about other members. I think that is because in general people are here to be nice and supportive of each other. I believe in giving constructive criticism when it is asked for. but am also a card carrying member of the "if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all" club.

what I do find interesting however, is how negative some members are when they are talking about others they see when out in real life. almost hypercritical sometimes of the GG's they see. this is especially ironic to me when we are sooo accepting of each other on this board but not with those strangers around us. :)

[iwearstockings]

Thats a good point actually. I do cath myself agreeing with things people have said and quoting them and then adding This is what i mean under it. I'm going to stop doing that because its about using my voice on here.
There is a lot of 'Go Girl' kind of comment here but its the same if we were all in a room talking. some people would be super nice, some would be indifferent and some would be blunt and maybe a bit spiteful.
I think this forum has the right kind of mix.
After all its not bitchy.com is it?!!

[msginaadoll]

I think that it all comes down to using judgement. Is someone just wanting to recieve some positive support and encouragement or... Is the person wanting to know if they can pass as a female? There are a lot of different reasons why people post. Some include affirmation and some advice. We all need to be affirmed, suported told we have value- maybe even told we are pretty in a picture, etc. However if we are asking advice i would hope I was honest and expect others to be so. I am wanting to go out to the mall dressed in the next week or so. For me I will do my best to dress and pass as a lady. Its a big step for me and in that case I want honesty. How can I improve my look, work on outfit, makeup, etc... But then I hope people will read in my posting and see thats what Im asking. People are unique and can be after different responses. I agree telling somebody they are passible when they are wearing a miniskirt and five inch heels at the Wallmart on a monday morning while having a full on beard shadow is wrong. Its also a lie. But they may not be asking that question they just might want to be commended on their bravery or nice legs, etc. Just my two cents and big mouth!