How short is the trip from "Sir" to "Ma'm"?

[Persephone]

How far is it from "Sir" to "Ma'm"?

I know that for some of us it is a difficult, if not impossible, distance.

But for others of us, can it be just attitude and body language? Or maybe one or two articles of clothing?

I spent Sunday in Detroit, visiting the Henry Ford museum and then heading for the airport.

In the museum I was wearing a women's turtleneck in a "neutral" beige, a slender pair of misses' Levi's, and male looking boots (that came from the women's department), with no makeup and my hair in a low pony tail.

I was pretty consistently called "Sir."

And, initially, I was called "Sir" as I went through airport ticketing and security.

Once in the airport, I raised my ponytail to just above the tops of my ears and slipped on a pastel lemon yellow sweatshirt. That was all of the change I made.

A few minutes later I headed into the men's room. A man called after me, "Ma'm, that's the men's room."

I ignored him and took care of my business (standing at the urinal).

As I was washing up, a rather agitated custodian told me quite loudly, "Ma'm, you're in the men's room!"

When I sort of ignored him, he grew even more agitated and told me a second time.

Both gentlemen seemed quite genuine, neither incident suggested that it was some kind of put-down of a "girly man."

I dried my hands and left.

After than, I returned to where my spouse was sitting, shouldered my purse (which I routinely carry all of the time but didn't have in the restroom), and went off for a walk.

A gadget in a store caught my eye and I stopped to look at it. The salesman, a very charming middle-aged man, was very helpful, showing me the various items and pretty much encouraging me to buy anything and everything in the store.

When I went to check out, he even offered to cut open the blister packs for me.

As I produced my credit card, the nice man said, "Will that be all, Ma'm?"

I assured him it was. He ran my credit card and routinely said, "I need to see your I.D."

I held up my driver's license (with my thumb carefully placed over my gender).

He looked puzzled for a moment and said, "Oh! I've never met a woman named D---- (my boy name) before."

I smiled and said, "My parents had quite a sense of humor."

"I guess so!" he chuckled.

He handed over my package and receipt and, in a completely genuine manner, said, "Have a nice day, Ma'm."

[JoAnne Wheeler]

What an amazing story - I can't believe how you were able to keep your cool

throughout all this - you have a lot of courage.

JoAnne Wheeler

"I'm an All American Bluegrass Girl and Proud As I Can Be"

[Diane Cox]

Just changing your Hair and top made all the difference !! Good post !!:)

[SweetCaroline]

I can relate. Having long hair I get called "Ma'm" A LOT, and not just when people see me from behind either. Tho I usually get reconized as male after more than a quick glance.

What amuses me is how much people think they're offending me by accidentily calling me by a female term. Moments later they're all like "I'm so sorry sir". And I'm just smiling, thinking, my god, if they only knew. lol!

[Persephone]

What an amazing story - I can't believe how you were able to keep your cool throughout all this - you have a lot of courage.

The men's room incidents are really beginning to bug me, especially since they have been increasing in frequency and yet I don't feel like I should start heading for the ladies' room on a full-time basis -- or should I???

As to courage, I'm not sure that's what it was, after all, what were my options?


What amuses me is how much people think they're offending me by accidentily calling me by a female term. Moments later they're all like "I'm so sorry sir". And I'm just smiling, thinking, my god, if they only knew. lol!

I certainly understand that one completely! I used to have that "Ma'm from the back, Sir from the front" thing happen frequently and was never sure how to handle it. I would feel so bad for the other person, but what could I say? Mostly I would just smile and say, "No problem."

And, inside, I'd enjoy the feeling you're describing.

It seems to happen less frequently lately as I'm more often "Ma'm"ed from both sides! :heehee:

[Beth785]

I don't really mix my two sides together. I can't really pull of the lady thing in drab, so I just wait until I can go all out. I get "sir'd" in drab, "ma'am'd" en femme. Usually.

[Empress Lainie]

Due to my wearing wigs usually long hair either blonde or red, when I was out with my gf at the time, now my best gf, we were always called "ladies" when we went to restaurants, I just giggled, this was before my transition, and I didn't have a clue I was really female, but I think she knew. So I was used to being called ma'am long before my 24/7 days. I still remember the first time I was called she in a group setting. It felt so right to me. The only time I hear SIR now is on the phone and I quickly correct them. But sometimes I do get (happily!) ma'am on the phone.

[DanaR]

I knew this girl that was about ready to transition and had been going to a fitness center for a while. After she started on hormones and started to develop a bit, she was asked to not use the men's room because it made the men feel uncomfortable. They told her to use the woman's room; which she did without any issues.

[melissacd]

I totally understand this because in my current life when I am in male mode I wear my hair in a pony tail, I have large ear rings and I wear clothes that have more feminine colors. There have been many time when I have been called m'am, lady, had a man open the door for me, had male clerks ask me if I needed help. It is all very strange because I do not feel that when I am in male mode that I look female at all. Notwithstanding that, I guess there are enough female signals there to at least confuse people about my real gender. A funny time was when I was in a men's washroom and a man walked in, saw me, turned around, checked the door and walked back in. Clearly, for a moment, he thought he was in the wrong washroom. Another time I was looking for a washroom and when I found them they were opposite each other but with the doors open so I could not see which was which. A man came up to the washrooms and pointed at what turned out to be the ladies and said your washroom is over there m'am.

It befuddles me that such slight changes in our dressing configuration can be enough to make the general population think you are female even when you are not trying to be.

I am not sure if it is the clothing or perhaps it is more the comfort in being a little bit different and how one carries oneself that creates this femme aura. Do we exude something a bit different? Are people really that poor at observing?

I guess the positive side of this is that it means that more than likely that transparency is increased (not eliminated because on close scrutiny most cross dressers do not pass) when you are trying to look like a female. That could possibly explain why I have been able to move around in public so freely and without anyone pointing or snickering or laughing or any other type of negative expression. I dress appropriately, I carry myself confidently, I am able to do everything I want/need to do in public without issue.

It reminds me to say to those of you who are not out of the closet yet that the biggest impediment to getting out of the closet is your own self. Once you are out here and see that the world is not so bad you will enjoy life in the sun :)

Huggs
Melissa

[Carin]

I certainly understand that one completely! I used to have that "Ma'm from the back, Sir from the front" thing happen frequently and was never sure how to handle it. I would feel so bad for the other person, but what could I say? Mostly I would just smile and say, "No problem."

A few times when people have stumbled between Sir and Ma'am, I have responded with "It's OK, I answer to both". But I do empathise with their confusion and embarrassment


It seems to happen less frequently lately as I'm more often "Ma'm"ed from both sides! :heehee:
Maybe it is time to start using the Ladies room more often.!

[carolinoakland]

Well, since I filed paperwork to change my name and gender that will be signed in may I'm a pretty forgiving about it, I"m learning to speak up when they get it wrong, a soft not angry but gentle "it's miss. please''. After the paper work is signed THEN I'm gonig to start getting a little hissy about it. Carol

[Rachel Morley]

Incredibly I have gotten mam'ed several times in boy mode and I don't even have long hair! I wear a baseball cap, and my clothes are fairly obvious women's jeans, tops, cardigans, and tennis shoes. I wear eye makeup too. I think my size helps as I'm only 5ft 4in and 130 lbs. Being mam'ed in boy mode doesn't happen "that" often, but it does happen .... and of course I love it when it does :D

[Empress Lainie]

I think if we are really TS, it shows even before we know it. Having had recent long conversations with my ex-gf for 16yrs, now we are best girlfriends,; she said that always had sensed my femaleness, and it was one thing she had initially liked about me.

Yet when she saw me gradually turning into a woman, she couldn't handle it for a while, even slapping me and running away leaving me totally mystified for months. She saw it before I even had a clue I was doing it. Gee how dense I was. Looking way way back now, I can see clearly it was there all the time from when I was three.
I wasn't in denial, I was just in ignorance.

[Marvina Martian]

I used to get ma'amed all the time when in boy mode, usually when the person was not quite paying attention and would look up and be like, OH! Oops, sorry about that! I would always grin and say it was not a problem.

Now that I am transitioning I never get a sir any more, even when I am trying to be in "boy" mode :D

[DemonicDaughter]

Apparently for me, it takes nothing more than higher heels, a neon pink wig and an outrageous attitude to match my drag queen attire... and I'm a GG! :heehee:

While out at a club in NYC, I was mistaken for a member of the staff of a drag club we were at. I'm still working on my "manly" voice just to have a bit of fun with. :D I love when they don't know how to address me. :battingeyelashes:

[Persephone]

So I'll ask you:

How do you feel about this ambiguity? You surely know that it would be a simple thing to end it: a pair of earrings or a slight moustache would put all doubts aside. So are you doing it on purpose to needle the narrow-minded? Or don't you know that you're doing it? Is it fun or is it a nuisance?

I'd love to know.

It's both fun and a nuisance! Yes, Katie, I could end the ambiguity by going further in one direction or the other, and, of course, I frequently do.

This morning, for example, I was "all guy," attending a function in a business suit and tie; and this afternoon I was "all woman," bra, makeup, and earrings when my spouse and I went to exercise at the "women only" excercise center we belong to.

A big part of the "ambiguity" is the awkwardness I now have in pulling off the "all guy" look on a casual basis. It may work with a suit and tie, but in casual attire my long ponytail, virtual lack of facial hair (I've had laser), and my long, manicured acrylic nails tend to make complete "passing" as a guy difficult.

Mostly, I *L*O*V*E* passing as a woman whenever possible, although the fact that I typically pass more easily as a woman than a man is beginning to irk my otherwise accepting spouse.

But the men's room problem is a nuisance. Unless I feel fully prepared to pass, which, to me, means makeup and a filled bra, I'm not sure I feel comfortable wandering into the ladies' room, and yet, more and more, I seem to be challenged or excluded from the men's room.

Beyond the restroom, my discomfort comes from the fact that there are now people in my community who know me as a guy and people in my community who know me as a woman, and what happens when those worlds collide?

[Leanne2]

Have you thought of not using the urinal? Nothing screams "Man" more than bellying up to a urinal and taking the stance. Just use a stall. It's no ones business what you do in there. Standing at the urinal is just asking for a confrontation. Is that what you want? I never use urinals because the zippers on ladies jeans are too short. When I come out of the stall I quickly wash my hands and leave. Good luck, Leanne

[Persephone]

Have you thought of not using the urinal? Nothing screams "Man" more than bellying up to a urinal and taking the stance. Just use a stall. It's no ones business what you do in there. Standing at the urinal is just asking for a confrontation. Is that what you want? I never use urinals because the zippers on ladies jeans are too short. When I come out of the stall I quickly wash my hands and leave. Good luck, Leanne

Thanks for your message Leanne, but I'm a bit confused by it. When in a men's room, I pretty much always figure that using the urinal IS what says "It's O.K., I'm a guy." Wouldn't heading for a stall add to the confusion?

[sometimes_miss]

O.K., the two things you changed were quite telling; you went from wearing a color that men commonly would do, to one that we usually don't. And lots of men with long hair wear pony tails from time to time just to keep their hair out of the way, but I've never seen one with it banded up high, that's a girl thing to do. Those two things marked the difference between 'girl' and 'boy'.