CDing keeps me faithful...not the other way around

[danam]

I have a bone to pick with the GGs who think that crossdressing is a type of unfaithfulness...a betrayal, so to speak. I want to announce to the world that my desire to crossdress has KEPT ME FROM OTHER WOMEN.

My story is this: I am a totally closeted crossdresser, and married for 10+ years. My wife totally doesn't know. The reason I don't tell her is simple: I have conflicted feelings about it, but I love it, and I know that she won't understand it. I know her tastes, I know her desires, I know her intimately. She won't like it. So I think it is better to just avoid the stress and weirdness altogether. And, besides, I really don't want to have a deep conversation about it, because I'm only just beginning to come to terms with that side of myself. I have been running for it for decades...so it is not something to bring up casually or even joke about. I genuinely don't want it to come between us. And I fear it will.

Now, all marriages go through their trials. After 10+ years, you had better believe that every man has had his temptations. But must tell you this. When faced with the opportunity to have a physical affair with another woman, I have stopped, and thought...sex with another woman is not really the answer to life's troubles. Sure, for some, it might appear to be. But for me, you know what? I would rather (much rather!) spend a day as Dana, out and about in heels and makeup and a skirt suit, than to sleep with that gorgeous young business analyst on the 3rd floor of the office. Honestly, I get more of a rush thinking about being Dana!

So, yes, the desire to crossdress makes me a more faithful husband. Yes, my CDing is a secret, and that is wrong, but it has kept me from making an even more terrible mistake--thinking that sex with another is just a "fun" thing to cheer you up a during a normal ebb and flow of life.

So there, I have said it. The desire to crossdress is a sexual rush...but it is a "man" thing, and don't try to understand it. Just know that it is entirely separate from the desire to have a nice, stable, and loving home life. It can keep a man faithful, because with CDing, he won't be as eager to fall for the temptation of other women, because it is really, really fun all by itself.

Thank you for listening, and I hope that this doesn't totally offend too many people. But it is my honest feelings.
-Dana

[BekiJ]

Thank you Dana, well said.
Hugs
BekiJ

[AllieSF]

I agree with you completely and wish you the best. You are an adult and only you can make that decision. No one should try to peer pressure you into doing what you have decided not to do. Happy dressing!

[JaytoJillian]

Right on! I am soooo totally "the other woman."

[Tasha McIntyre]

My wife totally doesn't know. The reason I don't tell her is simple: I have conflicted feelings about it, but I love it, and I know that she won't understand it. I know her tastes, I know her desires, I know her intimately. She won't like it.

You are right, no one knows your wife like you do. In the end it's only whether you are willing to continue hiding your stash and keeping a secret.

I thought totally the same about my wife, and didn't tell her for years and years, until I finally came to terms with myself and my CDing, then I couldn't keep it in anymore. It sure was a shock to her, but with the help of a couple of very informative and educational websites, things went better than I could have imagined.



I would rather (much rather!) spend a day as Dana, out and about in heels and makeup and a skirt suit, than to sleep with that gorgeous young business analyst on the 3rd floor of the office.

Absolutely, I feel the same way. No bigger high these days than to transform and spend the day as Tash.


Thank you for listening, and I hope that this doesn't totally offend too many people. But it is my honest feelings.
-Dana


Well said Dana.

Good luck

Tash :)

[Sarahwithanh11]

I couldn't agree more! I too have been married for quite a while, coming up on 20 years, and have never cheated on my wife or really even come close.

At one time, Dressing was a sexual thrill, but now it's more of an escape for me. I can be someone else, even a different gender, and I don't involve anyone else other than the girls on this board and any unsuspecting store clerks I encounter out there. I think lot of people have affairs to escape their regular lives and add excitement to what has become ordinary, but for me Dressing allows for that without all the other problems of affairs.

As for the idea that keeping it a secret is a betrayal, I really don't agree with that either. All couples, all families have things they don't discuss or don't throw in the other person's face. My wife told me early on that if I "was into anything weird like wearing my clothes" that she did NOT want to know about it. I kind of laughed and said that "yeah if I ever decide to do any of that I won't involve you" but beneath it all it was serious, and I have stuck with that ever since.

You've just got to do what works for you and the relationship, and if that means not telling the wife about Jessica then that's what I do. She also told me many years ago that she does not enjoy going to Lakers games, if you can imagine such a thing, so I don't involve her in those either.

[Kelli Michelle]

A couple of thoughts come to mind. One, let's not congratulate ourselves too much for doing what is the right thing to do (I have been married 21 yrs, never cheated). It's like congratulating oneself for not robbing banks because you work too much. No one should cheat, period. Second thought is that If the crossdressing is a major part of why you don't cheat (hopefully not), than, to me, you might as well say that you probably would have cheated except for that. If I am inferring something that is not true, I apologize, but that sounds like what you are saying. If true, that doesn't sound very good either, just saying.:2c:

As far as not telling your wife, I certainly wouldn't ever (and don't think anyone should)pass judgement without knowing the totality of experiences you have. One has to do what one has to do sometimes. There have been many accepting SOs but significantly more non-accepting SOs. SOmetimes the non-acceptance turns very ugly. So I, for one, can empathize. My wife knows but is non accepting. Still, I am glad I was upfront with her. But that was the decision I made, just as you have made yours.

[docrobbysherry]

R u REALLY being faithful? If U r the OTHER WOMAN?:brolleyes:

Would your SO agree?:eek:

I'm wondering what my So, if I had one, would say, if she found out I got a bigger thrill from being, and being with, Sherry, than with her?:Angry3:

[ReineD]

Dana, I fully respect who you are and your decision to not have an affair when you might have been tempted. But it is your reasoning I cannot understand. If I were to become attracted to someone else, even though my SO & I are not married, I would feel as if I had betrayed him if I went outside the relationship for sex. I would choose to remain faithful not because I may prefer to do something else over having an affair, but because I would not want to hurt my SO.

Lots of things can be a wedge between couples, not just affairs. Anything that consistently comes first above the relationship (other than getting basic needs met): obsession with a sport, workaholism, a wife ignoring her husband by hiding behind her children's needs, a partner's over-indulgence or compulsion in anything .. shopping, food, alcohol, or an overly active social calendar. In short, anything that becomes a priority over the partner indicates a disconnect in the relationship. The couple may not even realize they've settled into a tacitly agreed upon marriage of convenience, with or without fringe benefits, as their relationship hasn't developed into its fullest potential for closeness or intimacy.

CDing in itself is not a betrayal to a relationship. It becomes a wedge when a husband spends his time thinking about his next opportunity to CD, or everything else connected with it, rather than being present in his relationship with his wife.

[Angie G]

Good outlook Dana. I am also Faithful but it's because of a think called LOVE.It has keep me there foe 40 years with only her.:hugs:
Angie

[Barb123]

Dana

This has been the best "right on" thread I have read. The subsequent additions have only affirmed your statements. Even those who see the issue but came to a different conclusion, see your point.

We are all dealing with the same compulsion. I know I have for 37 years of marriage, I have dealt with this on and off.

I sometimes think the marriage would have been better had I not had to deal with this. Having said that, I also believe that it would have manifested itself in a more distructive activity had it not rooted itself in cross dressing. In some ways I have been more attentive to her and the family to offset or make up for the distraction this may have caused.

Thank you for the courage to say it and say it well.
Barb

[nikitataylor0210]

great post Dana... I am in the same boat as you, and although I've been advised by some friends to tell my SO, I just think it will unnecessarily over-complicate things, and as long as I'm faithful, I have no reason to feel bad about it.....

:hugs:

[Satrana]

I do think that CDs are far more faithful than average guys but not because we are better people. Rather it is because we don't see women as "skirt" to chase and conquer but instead we relate to them more because of our interest in femininity. The drive to prove our masculinity through sexual conquest is largely lacking in a CD.

On top of this our self-esteem tends to be low because we have this guilty secret that makes us feel we are undesirable hence we are more likely to stay faithful to a woman who agrees to marry us even if she is in the dark about the CDing.

I believe that when GGs talk about unfaithfulness in CDs, they are really talking about the threat to the relationship - in particular the threat to the idealized relationship between a man and a woman that we are constantly bombarded with through the mass media. We expect certain things from our partner because that is what we think everyone else is getting, even though this is actually an illusion. So the use of the word unfaithful is really a cry of helplessness and insecurity in seeing their man becoming less masculine (the horror!) and becoming unduly focused on an idealized alter ego which they cannot hope to compete with.

[Georgia Rose]

I don't know that CDs would be more faithful on average than other couples. As a reasonably shorttime CD though I do become the other woman when I dress. My wife knows all about it and at times even suggests I might like to dress. She says I'm a different person when dressed, more caring, considerate and talkative. Other than for her I'm way in the closet and will keep it that way. It all comes down to LOVE and after nearly 40 years in my case that's still very strong (that's not to say I've always been an angel). :drink:

[Joanne f]

Are you really saying " hey i have just thought of a good reason why it is OK to keep secrets , so that should make me feel better about it :daydreaming:

[Sheila]

I have a bone to pick with the GGs who think that crossdressing is a type of unfaithfulness...a betrayal, so to speak. I want to announce to the world that my desire to crossdress has KEPT ME FROM OTHER WOMEN.
I think you will find that most GG's who "discover" their partners are CDR's, do not think it is a type of unfaithfullness .............. issues surrounding what "SOME" CDR's do with it & use as an excuse to explore their sexuality whether in real life or on the web can be ...... there is a difference.

I want to announce to the world that my desire to crossdress has KEPT ME FROM OTHER WOMEN.
I would have prefered the phrase "my love for my wife" is what keeps me from other woman ..... but maybe I am just being picky


My wife totally doesn't know. The reason I don't tell her is simple: I have conflicted feelings about it, but I love it, and I know that she won't understand it. I know her tastes, I know her desires, I know her intimately.

you may well THINK you know your wife .......... we can never, ever know another human being that well, much as we would like to think we do just my :2c:


She won't like it. So I think it is better to just avoid the stress and weirdness altogether.

she may, and she might just not see it as being weird, she may have conflicted feelings about it, but she may be willing to work through those because she loves you ...... or she may not and unless you tell her OR she discovers, you will never know


And, besides, I really don't want to have a deep conversation about it, because I'm only just beginning to come to terms with that side of myself.
Ahhhhhhhhhh, now that is a telling statement, you don't want to have a deep conversation about it & because you are just "coming" to terms with it, u make assumptions that your wife could not


The desire to crossdress is a sexual rush...but it is a "man" thing

It is not a sexual rush for all CDR's nor is sexual rushes exclusively a man thing

[Raychel]

You nailed it Dana, I could not have said it better. Our home life is almost non-existant at the current time, and I must say that if Raychel wasn't around, I may have strayed. But with Raychel around it just makes life more livable. :2c:

Thanks Dana.

[Karren H]

Well personally.... Faithfullness is a moral trait that is independent of what I clothes I wear... Its like saying that if I didn't have my truck to work on I'd go have an affair with the neighbor lady?? Not a good excuse to go out and buy a broken down truck and not one to justify your crossdressing either, in my humble opinion..

[Stephanie Stephens]

Dana; I do the same thing with a gay difference. My dressing lets me vent my fem side without having sex with men and my marriage is not jepordized.

[TSchapes]

My main contention with you Dana are the secrets. I don't know what your wedding vows were, but keeping secrets I bet wasn't one of them.

Sorry to be hard on you and your sisters that keep secrets from their SO, but I've seen it backfire so many times. It's hard to put the pieces back together.

I'm hoping too that all the CD's that keep this secret from the SO's pass away after their SO does, otherwise their's going to be this "big surprise" along with the grief once the SO discovers your "stuff".

Oh, btw my SO knows, and even though she does understand that it's a part of me and she has forgiven me, she still believes that I am cheating on her in some ways with Tracy. Namely the time I am away from her. But there is communication and we are constantly working on our relationship and how Tracy fits into it. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Stuff to think about. I know what works for one does not work for another, and if you are perfectly happy with your arraignment, far be it from me to throw a wrench into the works.

-Tracy

[JoAnne Wheeler]

JoAnne is all the "other" woman that I can deal with - I do like the flirtations

that GGs give me in my DRAB mode - don't know how they would respond in

my underdressing mode - my Spouse knows that other GGs flirt with me - but

I'm like an old dog chasing cars, I don't know what to do if I caught one.

JoAnne and my Spouse know each other and try to get along.

JoAnne Wheeler

"I'm an all American Bluegrass Girl and Proud As I Can Be"

[danam]

I can't reply to everyone!! But I have a thought. When a happily married GM sees an attractive woman walking down the street, there is a part of him that wants to totally go to town with her. That is an animal instinct. Fortunately, most GMs know that that is not socially acceptable behavior (like, thrown in jail for a long, long time), but the thoughts are there nonetheless. Is it right to tell your wife that you are attracted to random women walking down the street? Why bother her with that information? GMs and GGs are very, very different in their concept of sex...it is amazing that we can live together at all!!

[loren]

I have to say Dana, from a gg's point of veiw, im a little irked by your post.
Please correct me if im picking you up wrong,but to me your saying,its ok to be cd'ing behind your wifes back, because hey! atleast your not cheating?..
For eg, if my partner was secretly betting on the horses every chance he got because he loved it so much, or was addicted to it,does that mean if he didnt get to do it he would probably be cheating on me??
I dont get it?. To me its still decieving the person you married and shared vow's with.And yes men and women are different in ways, but are you also saying if you werent cd'ing, that you WOULD be cheating on your wife? then surely that would be because your not satisfied with the relationship you have with your wife and what you have at home.or downright selfish and greedy for more than whats there already.
If you look up many of the gg's posts here,i think you will find that whether they accept or want to be involved in theyre partners cd'ing, the main thing that bothered a lot of us gg's most when it came out, was the lying and hiding and keeping secrets about cd'ing in the first place,and not actualy the cd'ing in itself!
If i didnt know my partner aswell as i do, and wasnt happy with his cd'ing, i would be reading your post thinking 'jeez i better start pretending to be ok in every with his cd'ing or hes going to cheat on me!'.
Whether it be cheating with another, cd'ing, addicted to gambling,etc..Its the lying or hiding these things that can eventualy make the matter worse.Im not speaking for everyone on here,thats just my opinion.
But i a am curious to know,if you wernt a cd'er would you be cheating on your wife with another right now?
Im not attacking you in any way on this,like i said just curious to what you are trying to say in your post? Loren

[Jess_cd32]

Dana, I fully respect who you are and your decision to not have an affair when you might have been tempted. But it is your reasoning I cannot understand. If I were to become attracted to someone else, even though my SO & I are not married, I would feel as if I had betrayed him if I went outside the relationship for sex. I would choose to remain faithful not because I may prefer to do something else over having an affair, but because I would not want to hurt my SO.

Now thats what I call well said


Well personally.... Faithfullness is a moral trait that is independent of what I clothes I wear... Its like saying that if I didn't have my truck to work on I'd go have an affair with the neighbor lady?? Not a good excuse to go out and buy a broken down truck and not one to justify your crossdressing either, in my humble opinion..

Agree again, not cheating on your SO has nothing to do with cd'ing, it has to do with love and respect. Looking at whats on the menu is totally normal, just don't order!
If I ever told my SO 'honey your lucky I don't cheat on you because I cd' I'd get:brolleyes: and then deservedly get ripped a new one:doh:

My suggestion, turn some of your energies to your SO, come up with some wild sexual ideas and rock your womans world! Nothing like the real thing, and make it all about her:)

[Kaz]

Loren, I admire your tolerance and understanding and of your approach...

I suspect many of us wrestle with trying to do the "right thing", and that frequently is about deciding what not to say. There are many of us on this site who have been open and then things have gone disastrously wrong, for others this approach has worked. Some of us have taken the view that if it means splitting up and then re-engaging with another that's cool because we have taken control of our lives...

There are some of us, and I am not really sure where I am yet, who have chosen a path of "protecting/supporting" the relationship (especially if kids are involved) because they fear the consequences - not for themselves, but for the people they really love and whose lives they could wreck.

I totally understand where Dana is coming from... and I think this thread is a really important one - it is causing me to challenge things big time and understand my rigidities... which is what personal growth and change is all about..

Thanks Dana, Kaz xx

[Malori Cross]

This is one of those threads that make me glad the Internet came along.

This discussion cuts to the core of what concerns me about being Intersexual (2/3 male, 1/3 female). When I came out to my wife her reaction was initially negative, but it has softened, apparently to an attitude of "Oh well--boys will be girls."

I keep things on the down low and we seem to get along. I don't feel I'm being untruthful.

I agree with whomever said CD'ing was like wanting to go to Lakers games--my wife wouldn't want to be a part of that, either.

Again--great thread & thanks to all of you who have contributed.

[Bridged]

If the only reason my husband chose to remain faithful to me was because he was a CD, I'd say thanks, but no thanks.
That rush may wear off you know, then you will be looking for new ways to keep busy in order to remain faithful.
I don't cheat on my husband, nor does he cheat on me. It has nothing to do with him being a CDer.

[trisha59]

I want to announce to the world that my desire to crossdress has KEPT ME FROM OTHER WOMEN.Dana
Speaking as a married crossdresser, I hope that there is more that keeps you from straying than this.


IWhen a happily married GM sees an attractive woman walking down the street, there is a part of him that wants to totally go to town with her. That is an animal instinct.

I really dislike this rational. I do not understand how anybody would think of themselves as being so week of character that you can't pass a woman on the street without considering infidelity. I certainly hope that the majority of males are beyond acting like we are in 6th grade.. Sure I like looking at women. Its one of life's great pleasures. But one has to think that if your thoughts go beyond looking there might be a reason.
I think I should have this in my signature line be once again: Have that talk with your wife. No matter how careful you are you will get caught and matter how uncomfortable you think that talk may be its will be nothing compared to explaining things once your busted.

[Tamara Croft]

I have a bone to pick with the GGs who think that crossdressing is a type of unfaithfulness...a betrayal, so to speak. I want to announce to the world that my desire to crossdress has KEPT ME FROM OTHER WOMEN.That's got to be the saddest excuse I've ever heard. I feel sorry for your wife, that your love for her wasn't enough to stop you from straying, your love for womans clothes etc was... goes to show what comes first.

If you didn't crossdress, then what you're saying is you would have cheated on your wife by now, pretty poor excuse don't you think? You're probably too self absorbed with your CD'ing anyway to even have the time for an affair. I think you have betrayed your wife, for putting your cd'ing first, the biggest thing in your life that stopped you from straying... I pity her... very sad :sad:

[Samantha43]

Okay, my :2c: worth.

I am continually amazed at how self centered some of us are. I read some posts and have to shake my head. I want this, I need that, I wish things were this way in my life, my wife needs to be more accepting or I'll leave....etc....etc...etc... Now I'm not a judgemental person, but come on girls. It ain't "all about you" when you are married.

Cheating is a choice. You either choose to cheat or you choose not to cheat. Trying to justify an activity you do that your wife doesn't know about by saying....well, it keeps me from cheating on her....is completely self centered.

The number of crossdressers who put the importance of crossdressing before their wives and families boggles my mind. Do you want to live and die all alone so you can wear women's clothes whenever you want to? Sounds like a recipe for misery to me.

I'm glad my wife shows no interest in this forum. She sure wouldn't have a very good opinion of crossdressers after reading a good many of these posts.

[Sheila]

Angie G

joanne f

Karren Hutton

TSchapes

Jess_cd32

trisha59

&

Samantha43

thanks :hugs:

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

I agree with something that Satrana posted, "I do think that CDs are far more faithful than average guys but not because we are better people. Rather it is because we don't see women as "skirt" to chase and conquer but instead we relate to them more because of our interest in femininity. The drive to prove our masculinity through sexual conquest is largely lacking in a CD.

On top of this our self-esteem tends to be low because we have this guilty secret that makes us feel we are undesirable hence we are more likely to stay faithful to a woman who agrees to marry us even if she is in the dark about the CDing."

For me, since I've pretty much underdressed with Panties for pretty much 40+ years, I was afraid to get into any compromising relationship, not that I didn't have a few possibilities, simply because how do you explain to someone your'e jumping into the sack with, why your wearing women's panties. And now after my marriage is over the same situation still is there, how to explain why to someone new. So I think what Satrana said is very true and accurate.. :battingeyelashes:

[Nicki B]

So there, I have said it. The desire to crossdress is a sexual rush...but it is a "man" thing, and don't try to understand it. Just know that it is entirely separate from the desire to have a nice, stable, and loving home life. It can keep a man faithful, because with CDing, he won't be as eager to fall for the temptation of other women, because it is really, really fun all by itself.

But Dana, you ARE being unfaithful to her - it's just that the 'other woman' is you? :strugglin



This discussion cuts to the core of what concerns me about being Intersexual (2/3 male, 1/3 female).

Malori - intersexed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex) has a widely agreed, physical meaning - I'm not sure you're using it the same way?

[danam]

But Dana, you ARE being unfaithful to her - it's just that the 'other woman' is you? :strugglin




Yep, that is true. It is cheating. But, you know what? It is a heck of a lot less damaging than sleeping with another woman. Because society is very clear about the boundaries of marriage. Sleeping with another woman is wrong. But for crossdressing...that is subject to a wide variety of opinions. Is it wrong to be secretive and dream of the woman I created? Sure, it is a little wrong...but does it really compare to having a full-blown physical affair? There are some women who think so...and many others who realize that it is just another goofy thing that men do. Women do goofy things, too.

For example, romance novels are female porn. I'm being serious. They give women the exact same feelings of fleeting joy that an X-rated porno does for men. That is because men and women are very different in this respect.

Do I feel uncomfortable when my wife cuddles up with a Romance novel? She does it ALL the time. Do I find it threatening???? Sure, it is a sign that our lives are not perfect. But it is okay, because I have CDing, and it serves the same purpose for me. A temporary escape that makes me happy.

And to answer an earlier question about whether I would hav had an affair if I was not a CDer...ALL MEN GET TEMPTED at some point in their lives. Whether or not he acts on it depends on the exact circumstances of the temptation, and the ebbs and flows of life situation, and a million other factors. So in my case, the desire to CD took a higher priority, and I resisted.

[docrobbysherry]

On the one hand, Danam, I'd say, " I rationalize, therefore, I am!":doh:

On the other hand, after being married and divorced, I'd say, " Different strokes for different folks. And if works for BOTH of u, go for it!":)


Yep, that is true. It is cheating. But, you know what? It is a heck of a lot less damaging than sleeping with another woman. Because society is very clear about the boundaries of marriage. Sleeping with another woman is wrong. But for crossdressing...that is subject to a wide variety of opinions. Is it wrong to be secretive and dream of the woman I created? Sure, it is a little wrong...but does it really compare to having a full-blown physical affair? There are some women who think so...and many others who realize that it is just another goofy thing that men do. Women do goofy things, too.

For example, romance novels are female porn. I'm being serious. They give women the exact same feelings of fleeting joy that an X-rated porno does for men. That is because men and women are very different in this respect.

Do I feel uncomfortable when my wife cuddles up with a Romance novel? She does it ALL the time. Do I find it threatening???? Sure, it is a sign that our lives are not perfect. But it is okay, because I have CDing, and it serves the same purpose for me. A temporary escape that makes me happy.

And to answer an earlier question about whether I would hav had an affair if I was not a CDer...ALL MEN GET TEMPTED at some point in their lives. Whether or not he acts on it depends on the exact circumstances of the temptation, and the ebbs and flows of life situation, and a million other factors. So in my case, the desire to CD took a higher priority, and I resisted.

[Sheila]

For example, romance novels are female porn. I'm being serious. They give women the exact same feelings of fleeting joy that an X-rated porno does for men. That is because men and women are very different in this respect.

Do I feel uncomfortable when my wife cuddles up with a Romance novel? She does it ALL the time. Do I find it threatening???? Sure, it is a sign that our lives are not perfect. But it is okay, because I have CDing, and it serves the same purpose for me. A temporary escape that makes me happy.

Takes ane huge breath, counts to ten, goes and bangs head against brick wall :Angry3::Angry3::Angry3:


How the HE*L would you know what gives a woman joy ............ you are far to busy doing that for yourself.......... then ......
Give me a break ............. your wife is, if you believe the crap you are spouting, probabley cudddled up with "the female version of porn (according to you)" purely and simply because her life partner is way to busy being loved up by humself .......I pity your wife I really do:Angry3::Angry3::Angry3:

[danam]

Takes ane huge breath, counts to ten, goes and bangs head against brick wall :Angry3::Angry3::Angry3:


How the HE*L would you know what gives a woman joy ............ you are far to busy doing that for yourself.......... then ......
Give me a break ............. your wife is, if you believe the crap you are spouting, probabley cudddled up with "the female version of porn (according to you)" purely and simply because her life partner is way to busy being loved up by humself .......I pity your wife I really do:Angry3::Angry3::Angry3:

If it was nonsense, then you would have ignored it!!!

Oh well, I guess sooner or later this thread would digress from rational conversation to insults. My fault for ebbing it on, I guess. Sorry everyone!!

And, yes, I agree with a previous post: With enough thought, you can rationalize anything. I am totally guilty of that.

[TGMarla]

I have only rarely been tempted to stray from my wife, and I've never given in to those desires. Marla is one of the reasons I stay faithful as well. I don't need other women; I am the other woman!.....err...well, sorta. I don't crossdress to cheat on my wife. I do it because ....because.....uh....I gotta. Dressing is my sanctum sanctorum. Many men find relief in the arms of other women. I find mine in Marla. And I'm not even considering ever cheating on my wife.

:edit:

Let me clarify. I don't feel a need for other women. My comment about being the other woman is said with tongue in cheek. I love my wife, and she fills my needs for love and companionship. I don't stray because I do not have any desire to do so. We had a few rocky moments in our relationship, but marriages take work, cooperation, and courage to survive. I'm happy with her, and I do my very best to see that she is happy with me. 'Nuff said.

[Sheila]

If it was nonsense, then you would have ignored it!!!
Oh well, I guess sooner or later this thread would digress from rational conversation to insults. My fault for ebbing it on, I guess. Sorry everyone!!

And, yes, I agree with a previous post: With enough thought, you can rationalize anything. I am totally guilty of that.
:thumbsdn:
What could I possibley know after all I am just a GG

[Jess_cd32]

The book 'Men are from Mars and Women from Venus' was so popular for a good reason.

Men and women are hardwired differently, its sounds like your wife would appreciate some romance in her life at the moment and it sounds like your content being the 'other woman' for now, filling a void rather than just enjoying cd'ing like most of us. Remember you both married for a reason, try to re-ignite what you found so attractive about her, and her in you in the past.

Time does take its toll on all relationships, sometimes they need a good jumpstart to bring back the emotions and attractions we've had for one another and they don't nessesarily have to be sexual in nature. Some of the best times I've ever had with my SO have been out of the bedroom:)

Its very interesting but breakups of all things will automatically re-ignite alot of those feelings when a couple gets back together, makeup sex is what its called and it is said to be the best ever. Been there, done that, agree 100% with it. Why is beyond me, but its like a total body, mind wakeup call for both.

Can I suggest a compromise or idea, tell your wife, get dressed up really nice your going out to a romantic dinner, one that prefferably will have candlelight at your table. Get her some of these first to start the night out:love:....and a thoughtfull card wouldn't hurt either.

Go out and talk about what you love about her, compliment her, make it totally her night, make her feel like a million bucks and show her you can romance her better than any book:)

Trust me when you get home you'll forget about the 'other girl' for the night and she'll skip the novel for the night. Then start to regrow your relationship again from there, I doubt you'll be disapointed, just my .02

As for the 'other girl', she's also an important part of your life but don't allow her to replace your SO or become more important, just enjoy being her in a healthy managed way:)

[docrobbysherry]

Women DO seem to like romance more than men. That means they seem to like affection, tenderness, and communication more, too.
Men, I think, seem to like just plain S-E-X a bit more!

My ex had a way of showing she "was not in the mood", without saying a word! And that attitude made me NOT WANT to provide her any affection or tenderness. She wasn't providing ME with ANY of those things either! When the LOVE goes out of a relationship, everything else soon follows!:doh: MY experience, anyway!

If Danam needs his CDing, and there's still love between him and his SO, I could NOT say he's doing the wrong thing!
If the love is gone, or goes, out of their marriage, then his CDing doesn't really matters. Because they've BOTH stopped caring anyway!

Your CD fem alter ego can provide u with raw sex, among other things. But, NOT with affection, companionship, etc. If your SO provides those things for u, but the sex spark in gone, maybe Danam and others NEED their fem alter egos to keep from straying!?
It sounds SO WRONG, but yet, SO REASONABLE!:brolleyes:

[linnea]

I can see that this is a way to the goals you desire and to avoid the ones you don't.

[Areyan]

Angie G

joanne f

Karren Hutton

TSchapes

Jess_cd32

trisha59

&

Samantha43

thanks :hugs:

I second that :thumbsup: You guys/gurls show that not all men are selfish when it comes to CDing or your relationships, thanks for showing your love. :D

:love:

Akira

[Sophia de la luz]

It sounds like you, Danam, have a very strong sex drive and have a strong sense of commitment to what marriage means to you. I relate to you in terms of how my inhabiting the feminine energies of my being integrates the "other woman" construct that men so often chase around.
I would urge you, however inappropriately, to consider that there might be a form of marriage that includes honesty and happiness. Whether that is right for you and your wife, is out of my league.

[Satrana]

I second that :thumbsup: You guys/gurls show that not all men are selfish when it comes to CDing or your relationships

So you believe most CDs are selfish? That comes across as sexist and condescending.

Dana's point about women resorting to romance novels is a fair point. Maybe Dana's wife uses her books to prevent her from straying. Should Dana receive our sympathies for this?

If people satisfy their needs by resorting to other outlets whether it be crossdressing or books then so be it. It is NOT necessary to believe your partner must deliver everything you want nor is it remotely realistic. Relationships work on many levels in many ways so I don't see the point in criticizing other people's relationships when you don't know the first thing about them. It just leads to lots of judgmental point scoring which this thread contains plenty of examples of.

[Areyan]

Goodness, I said not all men, can't you read? Geez, sorry I didn't include you ffs. :brolleyes:

[Sarah_GG]

Danam's original post says:
I know that she won't understand it. I know her tastes, I know her desires, I know her intimately.

It's very sad that your wife doesn't have the same opportunity to know you intimately. Believe me, there will be something missing from her life with you that she can't put her finger on. A big part of you is being withheld from her and some part of her will feel that loss. She could spend her whole married life being denied a fundamental part of who you are. I think that's sad.

[Sandra]

So let me see if I've got this right.

Because you cd it stops you from being unfaithful?

Well obviously there can't be a lot of love towards your wife if it's only the cding that stops you.

I've heard a lot of :BS: here but this beats all of them.

[Tamara Croft]

Dana's point about women resorting to romance novels is a fair point. Maybe Dana's wife uses her books to prevent her from straying. Should Dana receive our sympathies for this?No she shouldn't, there's a big difference between reading a novel, which Dana believes is the equivalent to male porn... which is seriously the stupidest thing I've heard... so no, she doesn't deserve sympathy for that.

Think about this logically: -

My love for you stops me straying
I love my crossdressing so much it stops me straying

Imagine ever saying the second one to your partner... I know which one I'd prefer to hear, and I know which one would get his ass booted out the door if he ever said it to me :Angry3:

[Malori Cross]

Nicki:

Thanks--I stand corrected about use of the term "intersex." Maybe there just isn't a word for what I am!

[docrobbysherry]

Danam's original post says: .

It's very sad that your wife doesn't have the same opportunity to know you intimately. Believe me, there will be something missing from her life with you that she can't put her finger on. A big part of you is being withheld from her and some part of her will feel that loss. She could spend her whole married life being denied a fundamental part of who you are. I think that's sad.

Again, I'm NOT defending Danam. But, Sarah, how do u know that Danam's wife ISN'T WITHHOLDING some of her feelings, etc., from him? Possibly contributing to his need to CD?

I agree with Satrana. On the surface, I don't feel that what Danam is doing is proper, but I'm withholding my judgement of him and his situation!

Because unless u know him and his SO intimately, how u can ANYONE correctly judge what is RITE for the two of them?

Having been thru the marriage, "tunnel of chaos", I KNOW how difficult it is to maintain a relationship, and LIVE with someone your whole life!:doh:
And I STILL maintain, if they have an arrangement that works for them, it's OK! Whether any of us think it's rite OR NOT!

[Tamara Croft]

I agree with Satrana. On the surface, I don't feel that what Danam is doing is proper, but I'm withholding my judgement of him and his situation!Because if he loved her as much as he loves crossdressing, he wouldn't use the excuse of CD'ing stopping him from cheating. That's like me saying (if I were a CD of course), I'm going to eat a ham sandwich daily, because my love for them is so great, I'll never cheat on my partner :rolleyes:

[Sarah_GG]

DocRobboSherry
Again, I'm NOT defending Danam. But, Sarah, how do u know that Danam's wife ISN'T WITHHOLDING some of her feelings, etc., from him? Possibly contributing to his need to CD?

Eh? But he knows her intimately and apparently understands her every thought process which is why he can't tell her about his CDing. And as for her withholding some of her feelings (which he infers she isn't) contributing to his CDing!!! That's a new theory on the subject... but one that I don't believe holds much water.

Perhaps he's worried that if he did tell her about his CDing she might consider being unfaithful to him?

And don't even get me started on the romance novels being pornography.

:straightface:

[Marie O]

I don't believe I am cheating, After all my tells me I'm her best girl friend! If that's cheating then I'm guilty and loving it!

[Nicki B]

Yep, that is true. It is cheating. But, you know what? It is a heck of a lot less damaging than sleeping with another woman. Because society is very clear about the boundaries of marriage. Sleeping with another woman is wrong. But for crossdressing...that is subject to a wide variety of opinions. Is it wrong to be secretive and dream of the woman I created? Sure, it is a little wrong...but does it really compare to having a full-blown physical affair? There are some women who think so....

Dana, my opinion on that, or others here, doesn't really matter - it's what the woman who married you would think, that's critically important. And she might well see it as comparable to having an affair..

Honestly, if I were you, I really wouldn't be so blasé as you appear to be? :sad:

[Tizabet]

That's got to be the saddest excuse I've ever heard. I feel sorry for your wife, that your love for her wasn't enough to stop you from straying ... I think you have betrayed your wife, for putting your cd'ing first, the biggest thing in your life that stopped you from straying...Quoted for being the blinding truth. :yt:

I'm sorry, but what the original post here says, regardless of any excuses is that you want to cheat. That you're not satisfied with your wife. That's horrible. IMHO, if you truly love someone, you would never feel that urge to begin with. It really does sound like you care more about yourself than her, and that's no sort of love I've ever heard of.

My sympathy goes out to your wife.

[trisha59]

And to answer an earlier question about whether I would have had an affair if I was not a CDer...ALL MEN GET TEMPTED at some point in their lives. Whether or not he acts on it depends on the exact circumstances of the temptation, and the ebbs and flows of life situation, and a million other factors. So in my case, the desire to CD took a higher priority, and I resisted.

In general I hate generalizations.
Change it to I GET TEMPTED at some point in my life. Whether or not I act on it...........
Now this is a true statement.

[Kaz]

I thought this thread would bring out some deep issues and it appears to be doing just that. Dana... hang in there, there is support!

I have made a few "friends" here I and really don't don't want to lose you... so saying things and being open can be dangerous even in cyberspace! But I can understand where Dana is coming from, well at least in part...

My wife once said to me she would prefer me to be having an affair than CDing... discuss....

This is a complicated issue and if you look at the threads, there is a distinct difference of opinion between US and UK CDs, and GGs with Dana... but the GGs on this site are here because they accept.. or I should say "are accepting", sorry girls and I would love it if my wife was as well.

The US amongst us may say.. tell her it will all work out, and if it doesn't what the heck... loive your life.. go the mall... have fun...

I am sat in a shared services appartment in Chelmsford in the UK... dressed. FMBs, hold ups (thigh highs?), long skirt , no knickers.. feels great! I have just been out for a walk... brilliant... does my wife know?

No... but does she really know what I do when I go away for the night?

Of course she does...

Maybe being open will make it brilliant... but maybe it will wreck things, and I am really sorry if this offends but I know people in the UK who's families have been wrecked by this sort of disclosure.. kids in particular...

I personally think we have a moral responsibility here... sorry if I am on my own on this... Yeah I want to come out... but at the expense of my family...? Discuss

Sheila.. and all the GGs on this site... totally agree with you and understand were you are coming from... wish I'd met you in my 20s! :love:

Sorry if I have offended anyone... we all need constructive support... a lot of us are all in vulnerable positions and that is why we are here... destructive criticism is the easiest form of feedback... it is also the simplest way to destroy positive intention..

Kaz xx

Just trying to be the real me... whoever that might really be!

Woah... guess I've just lost all my friends!

[Tizabet]

I know people in the UK who's families have been wrecked by this sort of disclosure ... I personally think we have a moral responsibility here ... I want to come out... but at the expense of my family...?

Look at your wording, though. You sound genuinely concerned for the well being of others. How it will affect them. It's not the ops refusal to come out that's the issue here. Sure, it's not good to have secrets, but like you point out, there are other consequences to consider. But when the the consequences don't really have anything to do with it, then it just becomes an excuse. The underlying issue is the desire to cheat in the first place. It's the consequences of that that op is hiding from, and no amount of self gratification is going to fix that. Distract from it, sure, but never solve it.

I guess all I can say is that if I were in the op's wife's position, I'd prefer something to nothing. Fixing the relationship would be great, but if that's not possible, I'd rather get the pain over with sooner than later, and have more time to find someone who really does love me. No one should have to live in fear of their partner cheating... Of finding out too late that you never really loved them... Be fair to her.

[jordyn.wayne]

R u REALLY being faithful? If U r the OTHER WOMAN?:brolleyes:

Would your SO agree?:eek:

I'm wondering what my So, if I had one, would say, if she found out I got a bigger thrill from being, and being with, Sherry, than with her?:Angry3:

My SO found out by hacking my e-mail account because she thought i was having an affair while i was away from home on business, instead of an affair with another GG she descovered i was having an affair with myself, the thrill is'nt bigger it's just different.

[ReineD]

Women DO seem to like romance more than men.

We like to have romance WITH our men. Or femmes. :battingeyelashes:

Edited to add:



If people satisfy their needs by resorting to other outlets whether it be crossdressing or books then so be it. It is NOT necessary to believe your partner must deliver everything you want nor is it remotely realistic. Relationships work on many levels in many ways so I don't see the point in criticizing other people's relationships when you don't know the first thing about them. It just leads to lots of judgmental point scoring which this thread contains plenty of examples of.

While it is true that no one, not even the closest partner can meet all our needs, I still would not like to be in such a distant relationship where we each got our romantic or sexual needs met elsewhere. Even if the void was filled with other things than an affair, such as romance books, porn, or CDing ...... or religion, booze, food, gambling, shopping, workaholism, friends we are closer to than our SOs, hiding behind our children's needs, or a myriad other ways to not have an open, honest, loving, and intimate relationship.

[suchacutie]

I'm not sure that I really need anything to be faithful. I'm committed to my wife and that's all there is to it. I do think that CDing has brought us closer because our increased understanding for each other, but Tina is a part of me so I just can't work the analogies to "the other woman" or anything like it.

Maybe I need to give this more thought.

tina

[Leslie Langford]

Now, all marriages go through their trials. After 10+ years, you had better believe that every man has had his temptations. But must tell you this. When faced with the opportunity to have a physical affair with another woman, I have stopped, and thought...sex with another woman is not really the answer to life's troubles. Sure, for some, it might appear to be. But for me, you know what? I would rather (much rather!) spend a day as Dana, out and about in heels and makeup and a skirt suit, than to sleep with that gorgeous young business analyst on the 3rd floor of the office. Honestly, I get more of a rush thinking about being Dana!

So, yes, the desire to crossdress makes me a more faithful husband. Yes, my CDing is a secret, and that is wrong, but it has kept me from making an even more terrible mistake--thinking that sex with another is just a "fun" thing to cheer you up a during a normal ebb and flow of life.

So there, I have said it. The desire to crossdress is a sexual rush...but it is a "man" thing, and don't try to understand it. Just know that it is entirely separate from the desire to have a nice, stable, and loving home life. It can keep a man faithful, because with CDing, he won't be as eager to fall for the temptation of other women, because it is really, really fun all by itself.
-Dana

Reading through all of the responses to danam's post, it is clear that she has had more than her fair share of detractors who took issue with her spin on what constitutes marital fidelity and how best to resist the temptation to stray. I find myself in fundamental agreement with her, but for reasons that she may have alluded to, but not addressed directly.

I too, have been totally faithful to my wife of 35+ years and have never once made an attempt to stray. Part of this is probably due to a strong character, a good moral upbringing, and a distinct sense of what is right and wrong. Cheating on a spouse is not an option for someone with those - dare I say it? - old-fashioned values in today's permissive society where just about anything goes, and people only seem to get religion and become contrite after they get caught with their hands in the cookie jar (Bill Clinton, to give a well-known example, and look how he's managed to rehabilitate his formerly sleazy image).

Underneath the bra, dresses, pantyhose, and heels, however, I am still a heterosexual man and like Jimmy Carter, have also lusted in my heart from time to time. But unlike "real" men, I have other options, and can sublimate my rutting instincts by deflecting them towards my crossdressing desires.

And if I read betweeen the lines of danam's original post, she, like myself, probably looks at an attractive woman on two levels - (1) "Wow, what a "hot" MILF that is!", and (2) " Wow, what a gorgeous dress (skirt, top, shoes, boots - whatever) she's wearing, and how I'd love to have one of those for my very own. I wonder how it/they would look on me?" As a crossdresser, I then focus on (2) as my primary object of desire, rather than directing my attention on how to get into the "hot babe's" pants for purposes other than wanting to wear them myself.

So bottom line, my value system prevents me from acting on my impulses, but before I pat myself too soundly on my back for being such an exemplary human being, the truth of the matter is that my crossdressing also helps considerably to blunt that temptation. That said, I am not about to take the moral high ground here and judge another's actions, as they may not have a similar filter to blunt their lust. They may therefore be less able to resist the temptation to succumb to their biological drives and actually end up pursuing that "hot babe" and in the process become unfaithful to their SO. The old "walk a mile in his shoes" adage applies here without doubt.

Still, the bottom line remains the same, and however you want to explain or rationalize it - for me at least, crossdressing acts as a safety valve to prevent me from straying in a physical sense.

Of course, that still leaves the unanswered question of whether or not indulging in our crossdressing "hobby" constitutes a kind of emotional infidelity. My wife has often said to me that it is not the crossdressing per se that bothers her so much, it is the fact that she sees "Leslie" as some kind of competitor for my attention, affection, and time - in short, a "mistress" of sorts. In fairness, I can't fault her for feeling the way she does, and the energy we devote to crossdressing - while it may be comparable to a workaholic who neglects his family in favor of his job or the wife who effectively becomes a "golf widow" - there is still a sexual/relational/emotional component attached to crosssdressing that does not come into the picture with other such obsessive pastimes.

I'm not sure if there is a clear answer as to whose needs trump whose in the kind of of situation that we crossdressers find ourselves when trying to integrate this "other woman" into our relationships with our less-than-supportive spouses or SO's. More than likely, we are doomed to continue with this juggling act until the day we die, and all we can do in the meantime is to perhaps be more acutely aware of our partners' needs than the average male and conduct ourselves accordingly to ensure that they always feel loved and cherished - and if for no other reason than to show gratitude for putting up with us in the first place:hugs:!

[danam]

Thank you all for supporting this thread...you may not be supporting "me", but I am warm and content knowing that you find this dialog interesting.

One disclaimer (of sorts): I read the line about Romance novels being female porn in an article somewhere (so it is not an original thought) and I found it to be deliciously provocative and fascinating...and I couldn't resist the tempation to throw it out there. The fact that it elicits such a strong response means that it holds some truth. As I said before, if it was complete nonsense, it would have been ignored!

And I am also happy that the conversation has gone back to the rational side. I have to disregard comments that attack me and my relationship personally, because I haven't provided enough information about my personal situation for anyone to make a really accurate judgement. In fact, the insults are quite revealing about the person doing the talking, because they are based on assumptions, which in turn reveal much about the perspectives and experiences of that person. No, I'm not a psychologist (but I can spell it!).

And for those that think it is "sad" that I am hiding this truth from my wife...well, that is why I am here on this forum, and that is why there is such a strong interest in this thread. Lots of others are in this situation. We know it is sad. We know it is wrong. So we are trying to deal with it. So don't throw out self-righteous comments about you think I am doing something terrible. I know it. I am here (and a hundred or thousand or more others just like me) for help and support. Drop the inflammatory tone and realize that people come here for advice and support, not to be yelled at.

And thank you again for those who support this discussion in its intended spirit.

[ReineD]

Dana, it took a lot of courage to come here and honestly describe your situation and your beliefs. I'm glad you brought the topic up. It did spark an interesting discussion. Many of us do come here to work through our issues, and I believe we all stand to learn something from these threads. :)
:hugs:

[Sheila]

One disclaimer (of sorts): I read the line about Romance novels being female porn in an article somewhere (so it is not an original thought) and I found it to be deliciously provocative and fascinating...and I couldn't resist the tempation to throw it out there. The fact that it elicits such a strong response means that it holds some truth. As I said before, if it was complete nonsense, it would have been ignored!

now that makes no sense ........ we cannot choose to ignore nonsense that portrays inaccurate assumptions about things, we do so at our peril, lest they become deemed to be accepted as the "norm" through lack of challanging what we hold as our belief .. bit like should we continue to stay silent when people say "ALL CDRs are Perverts" ........... would/could you allow that to go unchallenged as a truth? ..... I know I couldn't, but then again my view may be wrong, but unless somebody can prove to me otherwise I will continue to believe that most CDRs are "normal" people ... care to challenge me on that one Sweetie?:D


And thank you again for those who support this discussion in its intended spirit.
A good discussion will always elicit strong viewpoints ............ not all will agree with yours, & if you you are wanting a view that completely agrees with yours you should have asked for those types of reponses only in the thread .......


I have to disregard comments that attack me and my relationship personally. Again had there been no truth in the statments that you found to attck you and your relationship you would have ignored them (again your words not mine Sweetie) ;:D
The fact that it elicits such a strong response means that it holds some truth. :D


I haven't provided enough information about my personal situation for anyone to make a really accurate judgement. In fact, the insults are quite revealing about the person doing the talking, because they are based on assumptions, which in turn reveal much about the perspectives and experiences of that person. No, I'm not a psychologist (but I can spell it!).
We cannot be held rersponsible for the fact that you now feel you have not provided us with enough information to make reasonable "judgement " (how I hate that word) of your situation, .......... (personally I responded to the facts as they were presented :D if you view that as a judgement & an inaccurate one then sorry but there is nothing i can do about that) and if we are guilty of coming to the wrong conclusions then perhaps you will be more accurate about the information you give us to enable us to make more accurate assumptions in the future:D


And for those that think it is "sad" that I am hiding this truth from my wife...well, that is why I am here on this forum, and that is why there is such a strong interest in this thread. Lots of others are in this situation. We know it is sad. We know it is wrong. So we are trying to deal with it. So don't throw out self-righteous comments about you think I am doing something terrible. I know it. I am here (and a hundred or thousand or more others just like me) for help and support. Drop the inflammatory tone and realize that people come here for advice and support, not to be yelled at.

Again if you had wanted only points of view agreeing with what you are doing you should have said so from the get go ....... just because others GG & CDR's disagree with your point of view does not make them "self-righteous comments " ...... we are as entitled to our opinions as you are ....... please read the support statement at the top of EVERY page

*** The #1 Community for Crossdressers, the Transgendered, Transsexuals, their Loved Ones and Friends
*** ...... I and many others here, come under the section I increased in size & support is not always about hearing what we want to hear, sometimes it involves hearing what we need to hear, rather than want ............. please I said SOMETIMES

A quote I find particulary apt for the cding forums I use

Andre Gide:
Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again

many come here seeking validation for their own viewpoints rather than seeking to reach new leverls of acceptance within themselves and their relationships :sad:


And for those that think it is "sad" that I am hiding this truth from my wife...well, that is why I am here on this forum, ...........lots of others are in this situation. We know it is sad. We know it is wrong. ...... So we are trying to deal with it.................you think I am doing something terrible. I know it. I am

now that view I do find sad ....... & surprise, surprise I find it heartbreaking that you should feel that way about CDing, I certainly don't find CDing sad nor wrong, I don't think you are doing anything terrible if you are cding, what I find terrible is, some of the reasons you use to justifiy not telling your partners **** (you not to be taken personally ) ***

[Joanne f]

I think what some are trying to say is that it is not so much of the fact you keep your Cding a secret from your wife, as in some instances this may be the safest thing to do for many reasons, but the fact that you seam to be using the Cding as a good excuse not to have an affair with someone which makes it sound like if you were not Cding you would be having affairs because that is the normal thing for people to do at some point in a relationship .
Sadly i would agree to a certain extent that it happens far more than it should (and that has a lot to do with the Internet) but that does not mean that everyone is wired that way .
I know that the written word can be miss read as the reader will interpret into the way they think you are putting it and this can lead to misunderstandings some times .

[Satrana]

While it is true that no one, not even the closest partner can meet all our needs, I still would not like to be in such a distant relationship where we each got our romantic or sexual needs met elsewhere. Even if the void was filled with other things than an affair, such as romance books, porn, or CDing ...... or religion, booze, food, gambling, shopping, workaholism, friends we are closer to than our SOs, hiding behind our children's needs, or a myriad other ways to not have an open, honest, loving, and intimate relationship.
I think we can all agree that open, loving intimate relationships are the goal we should all aim for. But I am too much of a grumpy pragmatic to believe this is what happens in reality. Large numbers of people settle for relationships which come nowhere close to these ideals but these arrangements work for them and they are happy to let things be. It lets them survive the tribulations of life.

People talk about the pursuit of happiness and yet it is clear many people are more interested in the pursuit of stability and conformity. I have seen many comments from GGs over the years who stated that they would rather their SO had never informed them of the CDing as they would have been happier remaining blissfully unaware. You can argue this is the wrong approach to life but that is how people actually think and behave and their wishes should be respected.

What gets me about this thread is that it is way too judgmental. There are people who believe that any woman who chooses to love and support a CD is sacrificing her own happiness and would feel pity for the wife.

How do you feel to know others pity you because they feel you are living with a partner who cannot love you properly?

There are many rocks being thrown around in this glasshouse, lots of personal condemnations of Dana based on zero knowledge of how their relationship works.

PS. this is not directed at Reine since she is not throwing rocks!

[Sarah_GG]

I have seen many comments from GGs over the years who stated that they would rather their SO had never informed them of the CDing as they would have been happier remaining blissfully unaware.

On the whole I'd have to disagree. Those views are far outnumbered by supportive SOs.


What gets me about this thread is that it is way too judgmental. There are people who believe that any woman who chooses to love and support a CD is sacrificing her own happiness and would feel pity for the wife.

How do you feel to know others pity you because they feel you are living with a partner who cannot love you properly?


Are you talking about on this forum? I certainly don't feel pitied. I feel supported by CDers and their SOs. CDing has never stopped my SO from loving me "properly".

I think the general discussion has been around the fact that the OP said that CDing kept him from straying. Some other forum members just questioned whether this was really what was meant and why. Lots of interesting points have been made on both sides.

:)

[Satrana]

One disclaimer (of sorts): I read the line about Romance novels being female porn in an article somewhere (so it is not an original thought) and I found it to be deliciously provocative and fascinating It is actually an old debate which goes all the way back to Victorian times when society feared women's minds would become corrupted. Mind you the Victorians thought seeing a woman in her undergarments would corrupt men's minds too.

On many levels it does produce the same quandaries - such as unrealistic expectations of what to expect from relationships and the behavior of your partner and as well unrealistic expectations of sex itself. It idealizes and packages men in the same way pornography packages women. Page and page of detailed sex scenes is clearly pornographic but when wrapped up in a love story it escapes society's censor. Anyway that is another topic altogether.


Drop the inflammatory tone and realize that people come here for advice and support, not to be yelled at. Condemnation is more fun!:hugs:

[loren]

The post is about cd'ing and how it stops you from cheating on your wife,yes?
Ok, heres how simple it is.CD'ing or any other, need, urge,hobby, desire,is completley irrelevant to the urge for cheating.
Your post was insinuating that all have at some stage the urge to cheat. ...And that CD'ing has been a deterrant for you not to cheat on your wife.
No, i dont know how your relationship is, be it good or bad, and, Yes,it is your choice to wether you tell your wife that you CD,rather than hide and possibly lie to her about what your doing.
Is reading romance novels stopping me from cheating on my partner?? erm? no.i dont have the urge to cheat, and if i did i would either be talking to him about it as obviously there is problem, or if all fails, end the relationship.i wouldnt be using a vent to not cheat..
Why compare CDing to not cheating?
In one sense your post i feel shouldnt be given so much attention, as to me you have tarred all men with same brush, insinuating that all have the urge to cheat,and
2) CD'ing is a deterrant.And in another sense im glad your post is getting read,as with everyones replies and opinions,as hopefuly even ,just one other person reading this that has the selfish 'all about me' attitude that you do, realises cheating is cheating, simple as.And CD'ing is completely irrelevant to it. loren:hugs:
Relationships,, TRUST,HONESTY,and ofcourse RESPECT, vital ingredients.

[docrobbysherry]

I think we can all agree that open, loving intimate relationships are the goal we should all aim for. But I am too much of a grumpy pragmatic to believe this is what happens in reality. Large numbers of people settle for relationships which come nowhere close to these ideals but these arrangements work for them and they are happy to let things be. It lets them survive the tribulations of life.

People talk about the pursuit of happiness and yet it is clear many people are more interested in the pursuit of stability and conformity. I have seen many comments from GGs over the years who stated that they would rather their SO had never informed them of the CDing as they would have been happier remaining blissfully unaware. You can argue this is the wrong approach to life but that is how people actually think and behave and their wishes should be respected.

What gets me about this thread is that it is way too judgmental. There are people who believe that any woman who chooses to love and support a CD is sacrificing her own happiness and would feel pity for the wife.

How do you feel to know others pity you because they feel you are living with a partner who cannot love you properly?

There are many rocks being thrown around in this glasshouse, lots of personal condemnations of Dana based on zero knowledge of how their relationship works.

PS. this is not directed at Reine since she is not throwing rocks!

I like that Satrana goes deeper into what CAUSES problems in marriages! Because THAT is the TRU ISSUE in this thread! NOT the smoke screens and flack so many r spewing here!

U can simplistically argue that if every person was "honest", "faithful", "caring", and "devoted" to their partner, their marriages would succeed! Which is patent nonsense! Humans, by nature, r WAY TOO complicated, selfish, and self deluding to be capable of those traits, in MANY CASES! ( NOT all, thankfully).

If I sound cynical, it's NOT because of my failed marriage. Which had NOTHING to do with CDing, OR cheating!

It's because in SoCal, where I live, over 50% of marriages fail! And that doesn't count the many couples to stay together unhappily. Because of "the children", or financial reasons, or just don't want to deal with the hassles of divorce! Face it, living with someone your entire life in today's world, CAN BE DIFFICULT!:doh:

Many of those unhappy souls have affairs, CD, drink too much, and/or get involved in diversions that take them away from their unloved SO.

Since some of u, judging from many of the posts I've read, r in marriages like that, what is so SURPRISING about any of this?:brolleyes:

And if u youngsters idealistically think you're going to get married, and live "happily ever after", good luck! It may happen in 10% to 20% of marriages, if that! Just realize what the odds r, and take a HARD look at yourself and SO, before u leap into that chasm!

[Shadeauxmarie]

My CDing has not kept me faithful. My commitment to my wife has. BUT, my CDing MAY have reduced some temptations. Can I honestly say I would have been faithful without my CDing? No, because that is outside of my experience. i have crossdressred through my entire marriage. It is POSSIBLE I would have strayed without my "distraction."

I know my wife too. I personnally feel she would have preferred an affair rather than me crossdressing. She would know how to handle it. She would have divorced me. She has threatened to divorce me if she ever catches me crossdressing again. She never actually caught me before. She found the stash. she ASSUMED I was having an affair.

[jennylogan]

Keeping your cding from your wife is simply lying by omission. When I was confronted by my wife about finding some clothing that wasn't hers I finally ginned up the courage to tell her not only whose clothing it was, but that I had been cding ever since I was 12 years old. What infuriated her the most and damn near ended a 20 year marriage was not telling her from the very start of our relationship. She was 100% right and fortunately with the help of a great counselor and alot of long honest talks we have been able to move past my deceit and actually deepened and strengthened our marriage. Trust me with all that we have been through along with all that she knows and understands about my female second self, infidelity is simply not an option I would consider for one second. Women like her who can accept, encourage and enjoy this part of their husband's personality are extremely rare. Why would I jeopardize that by cheating on her?
So I guess in a way cding keeps me from straying but truth be told I don't want to risk this marriage for some frivolous fling with the office hottie because we've been through so much together that the thought of not being her significant other is inconceivable. Ergo, I am totally faithful and better off for it.

[ReineD]

Large numbers of people settle for relationships which come nowhere close to these ideals but these arrangements work for them and they are happy to let things be. It lets them survive the tribulations of life.

People talk about the pursuit of happiness and yet it is clear many people are more interested in the pursuit of stability and conformity. I have seen many comments from GGs over the years who stated that they would rather their SO had never informed them of the CDing as they would have been happier remaining blissfully unaware. You can argue this is the wrong approach to life but that is how people actually think and behave and their wishes should be respected.

I agree that large numbers of marriages don't reach their full potential. It takes a lot of courage to be honest and deal with issues when one or both partners either change or have different, unrealistic, or idealized expectations of one another. And it takes skill to deal with the issues and grow: the ability to communicate, listen, withhold judgment, negotiate, be flexible, and compromise. It takes a willingness and an ability to recognize our partners' limitations. If both partners trust there is complete honesty in their relationship, if love has not been eroded because of trust issues (dishonesty to self and the Other), in other words if there has not been an invisible elephant in the room for years, then couples are apt to be more willing to stretch or change in order to meet somewhere in the middle. There needs to be a mutual bond of love in order to accomplish this. And commitment. The old adage is true: you have to work hard and continuously at a marriage in order to keep it thriving and experience its full potential and benefits.

And yes, some people would much rather not face reality and seek to maintain a safe distance rather than risk bursting their bubble because they are afraid they cannot change. Both are afraid to move out of their comfort zones and they believe that if they do face the truth and deal with the issues, they will either be forced to give up something they believe is essential to their existence, or their failures to resolve the issues will result in divorce. So they seek stability and conformity, but how happy are they really? Which brings us to Doc's point:



It's because in SoCal, where I live, over 50% of marriages fail! And that doesn't count the many couples to stay together unhappily. Because of "the children", or financial reasons, or just don't want to deal with the hassles of divorce! Face it, living with someone your entire life in today's world, CAN BE DIFFICULT!:doh:

Many of those unhappy souls have affairs, CD, drink too much, and/or get involved in diversions that take them away from their unloved SO.

Since some of u, judging from many of the posts I've read, r in marriages like that, what is so SURPRISING about any of this?

Or, they settle and maintain a safe distance without engaging in destructive behaviors, but they forego knowing what it is like to be truly connected with someone on all the levels (which in my view, brings with it a physical connection that is bliss). It is like being a CDer who does not experience the freedom and the pleasure to dress if he suppresses himself all his life by not facing and surmounting his fears.

In my view, true happiness in a relationship happens when partners reach an emotional intimacy with one another by accepting the self and being honest with the Other, and by accepting the Other's honesty too. All partners sense when there is a lack of honesty in the relationship. And difficulties arise when two people seek different levels of intimacy (honesty) with one another.

But, maybe I am being idealistic.
:love:

[Nicki B]

One disclaimer (of sorts): I read the line about Romance novels being female porn in an article somewhere (so it is not an original thought) and I found it to be deliciously provocative and fascinating...and I couldn't resist the tempation to throw it out there. The fact that it elicits such a strong response means that it holds some truth. As I said before, if it was complete nonsense, it would have been ignored!

Romance novels are surely fantasy - and having fantasies is not being unfaithful. Your dressing, however, is not just fantasy - it's also a physical reality?

[TSchapes]

Yep, that is true. It is cheating. But, you know what? It is a heck of a lot less damaging than sleeping with another woman. Because society is very clear about the boundaries of marriage. Sleeping with another woman is wrong. But for crossdressing...that is subject to a wide variety of opinions. Is it wrong to be secretive and dream of the woman I created? Sure, it is a little wrong...but does it really compare to having a full-blown physical affair? There are some women who think so...and many others who realize that it is just another goofy thing that men do. Women do goofy things, too.

If CDing is so much less of an infraction than having an affair, why don't you tell your SO about it then? If it's just a little "goofy thing", as you say. She would probably just laugh it off and say, "it's OK honey, I've got my romance novels!"

Anybody want to start a pool as to how this will turn out?

Sorry, I take offense at the "goofy thing" comment, what I do is a part of my me.

And, I truly believe every SO should know about the others Gender Identity. This is just so basic to a healthy relationship.

-Tracy

[danam]

So many comments and thoughts...I can't respond to them all. But there is some wisdom here.

For those GGs who are mad at me, at least listen to this one thing:

It is difficult to be a man. Because a man has a brain that knows what is right and wrong. But a man also has a drive that takes control sometimes, and causes him to do the wrong thing. Or--as is more often the case--fantasize about doing the wrong thing. This is an inner conflict that haunts us every freakin day. So please have some respect for that. We are built differently than women in this respect and this difference causes quite a lot of confusion and unintended consequences. For everyone involved.

The original thread is about how my desire to CD has satisfied some of my primal, male desires, and this has kept me from doing the wrong thing with other women in an overt, physical sense. Most of the comments here talk about the intimate side of the relationship, but very few comments talk about the intense physical needs of the male body. Our bodies (male vs female) are quite different in this regard. Please understand this.

For many of us, CDing provides an outlet for physical desires. And because it is very often "alone time", it is very confusing and ambiguous as to whether this really crosses the line in a traditional, male/female relationship. In an intimate sense, of course it is wrong to be secretive. But in a physical sense...is it? That is quite controversial.

I am comforted by the thought that I have not F-d up in a physical sense. Obviously I am not a perfect hubbie in the intimate sense, but in every other way, we have done a wonderful job of supporting each other through life's other challenges and rewards.

And please don't attack my credentials about knowing what a man wants versus what a female wants. We've all lived on this planet approximately the same amount of time. It's a level playing field for all of us.

[docrobbysherry]

In my view, true happiness in a relationship happens when partners reach an EMOTIONAL INTIMACY
with one another by accepting the self and being honest with the Other, and by accepting the Other's honesty too. All partners sense when there is a lack of honesty in the relationship. And difficulties arise when two people seek different levels of intimacy (honesty) with one another.

But, maybe I am being idealistic.
:love:

Most of us r seeking the "emotional intimacy" u mention. Most probably never find it. And some that do, lose it!:doh: I did!

THAT is exactly what I miss when I CD, and in my life! There is No emotion or intimacy involved when I dress! Occassionally, it's just the PHYSICAL SEX that Danam mentions.

If SO's could REALLY understand that, maybe they would feel differently about some of our CDing? Or, do they resent a man having his little private fantasy in the shower, too? It's VERY much the same for me! Maybe for Danam and many others, also?

[Satrana]

So they seek stability and conformity, but how happy are they really?

That is the crux of the argument - that Dana and his wife are missing out on the potential for greater happiness. The thing about happiness is that it really is completely subjective, so maybe the question about levels of happiness should never be asked because it is undefinable.

Let me explain - if you think about how people could be happy living in conditions that we would think backward, maybe even deplorable, then trying to define what brings happiness becomes impossible. My thought is this - happiness is derived from comparing how you live to others around you. As long as you feel that you are getting as much out of life as your peers, then you feel happy. Our happiness is derived from our understanding of where we are situated in the hierarchy of society - the higher our status the better we feel about ourselves and the more likely our wants and desires are met by those around us who respond to our status. So long as our life is going the way we want it to go - the way we expect life to proceed then we consider ourselves happy.

Also if we are unaware that there are higher levels of happiness then we cannot be unhappy at not reaching them. A jungle native can be happy living off the land because he has never seen electricity, TV, hot running water etc so he does not desire these things so he does not experience unhappiness. He is not unhappy not having heart to heart discussions with his partner because no-one he knows does this. There really is happiness in blissful unawareness!

Which brings me back to the issue of cheating, pornography and romance novels. One of the driving forces behind cheating is the want to experience making love to others - the feeling that we are missing out on joyful experiences that others around us are chasing after with wild abandon. You do not need to be unhappy with your current relationship to cheat.

And the more you feel you are missing out on life the more unhappy you will be. So anything which promotes unrealistic expectations of relationships has the capacity to create resentment and unfilled desires which can only be met by consuming more pornography or romance novels etc.

And i would argue that romance novels have a greater potential to create these feelings as the reader is drawn into the story and can relate to the characters over an extended period of time whereas porn is pictures and is usually used as a temporary tool for sexual gratification so there is no meaningful connection made with the characters portrayed.

[Sheila]

For those GGs who are mad at me, at least listen to this one thing:

It is difficult to be a man. Because a man has a brain that knows what is right and wrong.

You have managed to upset more than just the GG's with your comments sweetie

you may be surprised but Woman actually are able to differentiate between what is right and what is wrong ................... heck even my 12 year old can :brolleyes:

[Shelly Preston]

For those GGs who are mad at me, at least listen to this one thing:

It is difficult to be a man. Because a man has a brain that knows what is right and wrong.

This implies women dont know right from wrong :eek:




please don't attack my credentials about knowing what a man wants versus what a female wants. We've all lived on this planet approximately the same amount of time. It's a level playing field for all of us.


I think you missed the level playing field .........see previous comment

[Di]

For those GGs who are mad at me, at least listen to this one thing:
It is difficult to be a man. Because a man has a brain that knows what is right and wrong. But a man also has a drive that takes control sometimes, and causes him to do the wrong thing. Or--as is more often the case--fantasize about doing the wrong thing. This is an inner conflict that haunts us every freakin day. So please have some respect for that. We are built differently than women in this respect and this difference causes quite a lot of confusion and unintended consequences. For everyone involved.
The original thread is about how my desire to CD has satisfied some of my primal, male desires, and this has kept me from doing the wrong thing with other women in an overt, physical sense. Most of the comments here talk about the intimate side of the relationship, but very few comments talk about the intense physical needs of the male body. Our bodies (male vs female) are quite different in this regard. Please understand this.


Sigh.......................
then what about primal female desires?
AND aren’t we suppose to be further evolved than a chimp? Shouldn’t we be able to control our bodies through our minds and conscious decisions? Apparently not always.

[kellycan27]

I agree with Jess here. Love ,respect and intergrity, not CD'ing should be motivation enough to keep us true.
I won't comment on the secret thing, cause I'll only get myself in trouble by the mod.

[Jess_cd32]

I agree with Jess here. Love ,respect and intergrity, not CD'ing should be motivation enough to keep us true.

I think everyone here feels that way, most have just addressed the other issues being discussed though and assumed this as a given.

I think we all know what its like to be tempted, as well as being cheated on.
I've been cheated on so many times I swore I'd never trust another woman, then I met my SO and just knew that I could:) Can't say my early picks were smart choices though either:doh:

I see what the OP is trying to say and rationalize but its only digging a deeper hole with alot here. Like I said, my advice is for the OP to drop the cd'ing for a day, have his SO put down the novels and re-ignite their relationship.

[Tamara Croft]

It is difficult to be a man. Because a man has a brain that knows what is right and wrong.

The original thread is about how my desire to CD has satisfied some of my primal, male desires, and this has kept me from doing the wrong thing with other women in an overt, physical sense.Just listen to yourself, keep digging that hole, you're making things worse, because now you sound like a neanderthal :rolleyes: Do women not have brains then? do we not know right from wrong? do we not have desires? should we take up knitting in the hope we don't stray? jeez... I'm so done with this thread, if you can't understand, the more you post, the more insulting you are becoming, then God help you. :wall:

[Nicki B]

For those GGs who are mad at me

:doh: Dana, trust me, it's not just the GGs who think you're being really dumb...


It is difficult to be a man. Because a man has a brain that knows what is right and wrong.

That is just so offensive, I'm not going to even bother to answer..


I am comforted by the thought that I have not F-d up in a physical sense.

You think? Really? If it doesn't matter, explain it all to your partner...

:hiding:

[Deborah Jane]

at least listen to this one thing:

It is difficult to be a man. Because a man has a brain that knows what is right and wrong.

This has to be the most stupid, sexist comment i've ever read anywhere

Are you for real or are you just trying to piss people off ???

[ReineD]

Because a man has a brain that knows what is right and wrong. But a man also has a drive that takes control sometimes, and causes him to do the wrong thing. Or--as is more often the case--fantasize about doing the wrong thing.

Dana you might have gotten your point across less offensively had you put it this way:

"Although a man knows what is right and wrong, he also has a sex drive that can sometimes overpower him and can cause him to make wrong choices. Or, and IMO it is more often the case, he will fantasize about it."

But you did make a blanket statement implying that men in general feel this way. I do agree that GMs (generally speaking :hiding: although I am not sure how much of this applies to TGs) do look at sex differently than women. IMO they can separate the physical urges from emotional intimacy more easily than GGs, whereas for GGs (generally speaking :hiding:), sexuality is driven from a need to be emotionally intimate.

But GMs in successful relationships will know how to keep their physical desires from becoming fantasies so strong that they will get in the way of the GMs abilities to be emotionally and physically intimate with their wives. We all like to believe it is love and respect for one another that keeps each partner from straying, rather than a mere sense of duty or a strong urge to engage in other activities, be they porn, romance novels, or CDing ... or sports, booze, gambling, over-eating, shopping ... but I am being repetitive.

[danam]

Dana you might have gotten your point across less offensively had you put it this way:

"Although a man knows what is right and wrong, he also has a sex drive that can sometimes overpower him and can cause him to make wrong choices. Or, and IMO it is more often the case, he will fantasize about it."



Thanks for coming to my assistance, there. That is what I meant. Wow, this has been quite an educational experience.

I thought I was pretty good at writing and getting my thoughts across, but wow, do people misinterpret things...I'm amazed. And exhausted.

[ReineD]

Thanks for coming to my assistance, there. That is what I meant.

... but did you read the rest of my post?

[kristinacd55]

[QUOTE=CD Tasha;1633259]You are right, no one knows your wife like you do. In the end it's only whether you are willing to continue hiding your stash and keeping a secret.

I thought totally the same about my wife, and didn't tell her for years and years, until I finally came to terms with myself and my CDing, then I couldn't keep it in anymore. It sure was a shock to her, but with the help of a couple of very informative and educational websites, things went better than I could have imagined.


well said by you Tash, my wife didn't know for 34 years & I regret not telling her years ago. When she found out, I was relieved because I was tired of hiding it. I wasn't having an affair either, but after awhile any secret from your SO gets to be stressful & no fun. She thought I was having an affair, and has for the most part accepted it.