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Julie
06-22-2005, 06:21 AM
My choice to live life on the fence has proven to be an never ending battle. On one side I want me to be happy and on the other side I want my kids and family to be happy.

I was raised with certain ideals and being a good father was one of those. I think of how I would have felt if my own father decided to live the rest of his life as a woman. I think I would be pretty confused, to say the least. How I would have been in the long run, I can't say.

I was born with mind and body in conflict. This will never change unless I do something to resolve the conflict. Right now changing the brain is impossible so that leaves me only one option. I think I'd be more content living the remainder of my life as a woman except for the impact it would have on my kids.

So I have the things I learned battling the way I was born. What wins?

When I was in therapy I initially believed the kids would come to accept my transition. My therapist gave me hope this would happen but her focus was on me being happy and that meant transitioning. My son's reaction to my crossdressing told me kids need their father. So after a lot of soul searching I chose to live my life in the middle, a much harder road to travel than I thought.

I have already proven to myself over and over that if I go too long w/o dressing I start to sink into a funk. The time frame seems to be getting shorter and shorter and that worries me. It hasn't been all that long since I made the choice how I will live my life but the repercussions from it have been substantial and it's wearing me down. I wonder how long I can continue like this. Therapy wasn't helping at all so I stopped going. I read self help books frequently and that helps somewhat but nothing stops completely this feeling of hopelessness. I live my life between a rock and a hard place and it's taking its toll.

Even the fiercest of warriors need a break from battle but the only time when I get that is when I'm dressed or sleeping and it's never enough to recooperate.

I'd like to hear from anyone else struggling with this and how you cope.

Wendy me
06-22-2005, 08:08 AM
wow julie i was just thinking how manny of us out there read this and can relate to it in some way???? i can as a father even with my boys grown and liveing on there own thay still need theire dad...and i will be dad no matter what ... i thought that what i wanted was just so easy...so simple just set me free ...if i could be happy then all who loved me would be happy ....i mean how could you love some one and not be happy if thay are???

in looking back it would have been a lot easyer not to get marryed and not have brought kids in to this world....don't ever get me wrong i love my wife and my boys...
and don't ever regret this life this path i have chosen (or did it chose me???) seams that all along when you walk up on the path at the fork in the path one way leads you to your own happeiness....and the outher way leads to making your kids or family happy......we take the path that makes our kids or family happy....

why do you/we do that?????? because we are dads...and doing whats right no matter how wrong it is for us is just who we are...........

julie huge wendy hugs to you.........

bikebuster77
06-22-2005, 02:52 PM
My choice to live life on the fence has proven to be an never ending battle. On one side I want me to be happy and on the other side I want my kids and family to be happy.

I was raised with certain ideals and being a good father was one of those. I think of how I would have felt if my own father decided to live the rest of his life as a woman. I think I would be pretty confused, to say the least. How I would have been in the long run, I can't say.

I was born with mind and body in conflict. This will never change unless I do something to resolve the conflict. Right now changing the brain is impossible so that leaves me only one option. I think I'd be more content living the remainder of my life as a woman except for the impact it would have on my kids.

So I have the things I learned battling the way I was born. What wins?

When I was in therapy I initially believed the kids would come to accept my transition. My therapist gave me hope this would happen but her focus was on me being happy and that meant transitioning. My son's reaction to my crossdressing told me kids need their father. So after a lot of soul searching I chose to live my life in the middle, a much harder road to travel than I thought.

I have already proven to myself over and over that if I go too long w/o dressing I start to sink into a funk. The time frame seems to be getting shorter and shorter and that worries me. It hasn't been all that long since I made the choice how I will live my life but the repercussions from it have been substantial and it's wearing me down. I wonder how long I can continue like this. Therapy wasn't helping at all so I stopped going. I read self help books frequently and that helps somewhat but nothing stops completely this feeling of hopelessness. I live my life between a rock and a hard place and it's taking its toll.

Even the fiercest of warriors need a break from battle but the only time when I get that is when I'm dressed or sleeping and it's never enough to recooperate.

I'd like to hear from anyone else struggling with this and how you cope.



Hey Julie...Nicely Put. Ever Since I started hormones at 14..My life has been a never-ending battle, having to deal with criticism and detractors from all walks of life that would day that I wasn't raised right or some trash like that. Well, to be completely honest with you, I NEVER knew my father, because he walked right as soon as I was born. So I never could go to my dad for anything..And Never had any fatherly advice. I never thought on how it would be if I hadn't made the decision to live as a woman, because I don't want any kids, because I feel like this, that my decision to transition and all, would've been like a cancer and I wouldnt want my kids to have to live with it. Call it stupid, call it what you will, but that's my take. But I agree with you....It's a fierce battle and it takes it's toll on the best of warriors, but there's already a point of no return for me, So I'm gonna live with my decision


Sarah

Deborah757
06-22-2005, 06:43 PM
My choice to live life on the fence has proven to be an never ending battle. On one side I want me to be happy and on the other side I want my kids and family to be happy.

I'd like to hear from anyone else struggling with this and how you cope.

Hi Julie;

I have been reading your posts since last fall and have always been struck by how similar our stories sound. I feel as if I could have written many of them myself. We are about the same age, have generally non-accepting families (called insane by my parents when I was young and again later by my wife) and while I have never seen a therapist I have taken hormones for a while in the notion that one day I might be able to take the next step. Often I have nearly responded to your posts to empathise but until now never have because; well I have spent 45 years practicing hiding and have found it difficult to fully open up, even on a semi-anonymous form like this.

How do I cope? I wish I had the answer. The ironic thing is that as a "man" I have been highly successful. I have a great job with good pay and as an Army Infantryman (before I retired) earned all the hyper macho badges there were to earn. But at this point in my life none of that really seems to matter because of that persistant knowledge, which you have so eloquently described in many posts, that I am "wrong" and the feellings of helplessness and hopelessness that accompany it.

The only positive coping I do I think is coming here to talk to people that are more or less like me. Also I find some comfort in my religion because even if I am rejected by the world at least I can think that God loves me. The rest of the time I drink more than I probably should and resist the occasional temptation to shoot myself and end this interminable conflict. My family provides the strength to resist this as I would never want to put them through what would inevitably follow.

Sorry if this was a more depressing answer than you wanted to hear. Maybe it helps to cope just in knowing we are not alone in these feelings.

Julie
06-22-2005, 07:52 PM
But at this point in my life none of that really seems to matter because of that persistant knowledge, which you have so eloquently described in many posts, that I am "wrong" and the feellings of helplessness and hopelessness that accompany it.

...I drink more than I probably should and resist the occasional temptation to shoot myself and end this interminable conflict.

Deborah,

As far as I'm concerned, you're just normal. When you feel you are in a hopeless situation there's only one out - to remove yourself from that situation by whatever means you can. While I'll never take my life, I have asked the Good Lord to hasten my return more than once. In the mean time I read self help books or I'll just tie one on. I haven't dressed since Monday and I feel like a basket case already. When I think I once went ten years with almost no dressing at all (except the occasional underwear episodes) I find it troublesome that now it seems the only time I am really content is when I'm dressed. The problem is when I get dressed I want to go out and that means to a bar and that means drinking and then I end up closing the bar. The next day I'm wiped out. Then I beat myself up for wasting a day. It's a vicious circle.

I figure if I'm living full time then that scenario won't happen. I can just go out and be me anywhere. But my kids come first right now. Maybe there will come a time when the desire to live full time is more important. Only time will tell. In the mean time I'll just have to get used to beating myself up. :bonk: OUCH! Hey! Not so hard!

Sierra
06-23-2005, 10:37 PM
Glad to hear the kids come first.You will like your self more for that and they will too!Why we put our selves through this ...God only knows so find a balance you can live with and live as you need to be real and true.People see I'am the same person just look a little funny with boobs.If we just put ourselves first we may find were in a very lonely place. :)Only you knows whats right for you,there will be days like your haveing.They do pass ;)

Deborah757
06-23-2005, 11:41 PM
Glad to hear the kids come first.You will like your self more for that and they will too!Why we put our selves through this ...God only knows so find a balance you can live with and live as you need to be real and true.People see I'am the same person just look a little funny with boobs.If we just put ourselves first we may find were in a very lonely place. :)Only you knows whats right for you,there will be days like your haveing.They do pass ;)

Hi Sierra,

When I got married I took an oath before God to put my family first. Sometimes I feel like its unfair, but I always come back to that pledge. Sometimes it seems unfair, but in the end I believe what Gale Sayers said in his book, "God is first, My family is second, I Am Third."

I see you described yourself as the hillbilly from Paradise Pines, Well just call me the redneck from Jawga. :D

Sierra
06-24-2005, 08:30 AM
Indeed God should be first!Life is hollow...missing something [like happiness] without Him.And yes I'am country girl tom boy, but love feminine things way too much,balance is not one of my strong points. :D

Mitzi
06-26-2005, 12:49 AM
Julie...

My COGIATI score was -150, which makes me a feminine male...or simply a guy who likes to wear women's clothes.

I came to this TS forum, just out of curiosity, but when I read your post, my heart went out to you. And was so glad for you that your daughter is such a wonderful person. I can only admire you for your unselfishness in putting your family before yourself...

Years ago, when my wife and I were having difficulties with each other, before she knew of Mitzi, I thought of leaving, but couldn't because of the kids...not for their sake, but the prospect of living without them was unbearable.

No words of wisdom here, but just had to let you know how touched I was.

Mitzi

Julie
06-26-2005, 02:23 PM
Julie...

My COGIATI score was -150, which makes me a feminine male...or simply a guy who likes to wear women's clothes.

I came to this TS forum, just out of curiosity, but when I read your post, my heart went out to you. And was so glad for you that your daughter is such a wonderful person. I can only admire you for your unselfishness in putting your family before yourself...

Years ago, when my wife and I were having difficulties with each other, before she knew of Mitzi, I thought of leaving, but couldn't because of the kids...not for their sake, but the prospect of living without them was unbearable.

No words of wisdom here, but just had to let you know how touched I was.

Mitzi

Hi Mitzi,

Thanks for the kind words.

My COGIATI was 435 the last time I took it (I know it's just a number and not to be taken too seriously). Every time I take it the number goes up and it's not because I'm trying to make it do that. I think the experiences of the last year have made me admit many things I was in denial about.

Denial got me pretty far in life but deep inside it's been tearing me apart. The more soul searching I do the more I realize just how much I was in denial. I fear there will come a time when I have to do something and that leaves me with a lot of guilt feelings. Again, the rock and hard place scenario.

What those who don't live with this are unaware of is it's not really a choice to transition, it's a need. When the inner turmoil consumes you and you can no longer function, you have to do something. On the surface I can appear perfectly content but inside there's this storm that's tearing me apart. If I ever give in to the pressure others will see it as my choosing to be selfish. If they only knew. There's nothing selfish about being labeled a freak or losing your family or going through painful surgeries or having to change your your whole life. No one would do this unless the need to do it was overwhelming. I wish they could see that.

I'd love to be able to have my family and friends live for one week with these feelings. I think if they did, they would all support me transitioning.

Natalie x
06-26-2005, 03:34 PM
Your kids NEED you up till they are about 18 or so, then they fly the nest and raise families of their own. They are adults, and any adult who tries to make you do what they want is controlling, not loving. Of course you still love them, that's a parent's ongoing joy and burden, but that does not mean you have to sacrifice your life to save them from having to make adult decisions. Parents don't keep breast-feeding their kids past the point where they need it, do they? I think they will only put pressure on you for as long as they can get the result they want (just like they did when they were little).

I love my kids. One knows already about my crossdressing, and is supportive, the other one doesn't know yet, but that's only so as not to cause any problems before her wedding day (for her sake and mine). After that, I will tell her and she will accept it, or not. I would be devastated to lose contact with either of my kids over this, but it is my life, I have done my duty to them and I will always love them, but it's my turn now.

Julie, I have always admired you. You are my role model. I am still learning, so advice from me is like the student telling the teacher how to do it, but my two cents worth is - Kick Ass, girl.

Stlalice
06-27-2005, 05:23 AM
Julie,

With your last post on this forum you hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head. For us trans folk transistion is something that in the long run we have no real choice about doing. To not transistion means to die in a spiritual if not a literal sense. To do so is to risk losing many of the people and things we hold dear. A rock and a hard place indeed !! From the sound of it you are at the same point that I was about 3 years ago - being torn apart inside as you struggle with your inner self. No matter what your decision you stand to lose something or someone. For myself - I doubt that I would be here to write this if I had not begun transistion - I was considering suicide as a viable alternative to going on as I had been. No one can make the decision for you - but at some point what to do will become clear to you. Good luck girl and hang in there, feel free to PM anytime if you want to talk or vent. :)

Darlene.
06-27-2005, 05:50 PM
Hi all.

Between a rock and a hard placeā€¦..a familiar place. A place that can force you move towards freedom. Also a place that can lead to a place that will force your children to mature.

At what time is it healthy for your children to live their lives independent from there parents? I mean at some point that needs to happen. Parents die and children live on, and need to find other resources to replace those which have disappeared. Equip your children for this reality and you will be doing them a favor.

Darlene.

emmicd
06-27-2005, 06:26 PM
Julie,

My heart goes out to you. I think there are more people out there in your situation then I can imagine. It's all in how you look at this dilema. You can embrace the good of being both male and female and try to delicately balance the important things in your life. Life is a big puzzle sometimes and sometimes we don't have all the pieces to make it complete or perfect.

Obviously you have responsibilities of fatherhood which is a gift that is very rewarding. I cherish the fact that I have a son. I am very fortunate to have a loving wife and son.

Also you need to be strong for your wife and children both. I'm sure you are and that your priorities are your wife and children. In my experiences I feel that I can not live without my family. They come first above anything else.

I remember you giving me sound advice. I feel frustrated about my cross dressing at times and feel I need to try to put it into proper perspective. I don't want it to control my life. I know who I am. I just happen to like wearing dresses secretly. That part is troubling and I need to deal with that properly. But I am happy with my manhood and so lucky to be a Husband and Dad. Those 2 things mean more to me than cross dressing ever could. The cross dressing for me is an escape and something I gravitated towards at a young age.

I wish you well and offer my prayers for you and your family.

Emmi

Chrissycd
06-28-2005, 11:02 AM
and don't take this the wrong way girls, but, I think Julie, like most of us, is crying for help here. She is so conflicted, it isn't even funny. I don't have kids, so I count myself lucky in some ways b/c I can only imagine the pressure I feel by mainstream society being multiplied many times over due to one's responsibility to the welfare of one's children. Let's face it, transitioning as a parent doesn't just effect you. We all know that fact. The thing I MUST say however, is perhaps idealistic, but important nonetheless. What are you teaching your kids about LIFE if you spend it denying your True Self? What are you teaching your kids about tolerance and accepting others by denying your True Self? Is making yourself into a martyr really the kind of example you want to set? Aren't these lessons a requirement of good parenting? I think Julie is fearful of transitioning because she feels she needs to protect her kids in some ways. Is this protective parenting instinct valid? I think that in many ways, the answer is "yes" b/c society is so full of prejudice and hate, that there is a REAL sense that harm could come from transitioning. On the other hand, at what point will we be honest with ourselves and our families and say: This is who I am. The fact is that very few kids have "perfect" parents. Many have parents who are much bigger nightmares than having a ts parent. Isn't it time we stop living in FEAR? Isn't it time we live honestly? Believe me, I'm not taking what I'm saying here, lightly. Even though I don't have kids, I have a job, family, friends and neighbors. I will have to cope with them as I transition. It's not easy.
Julie, honey, by now I think we're probably blood sisters, we've struggled with this so much. It's not going to matter what I say in the end. What matters is that you find peace with this. This is YOUR life. Your kids will go on and live theirs how they see fit regardless of what you do. Sometimes we allow ourselves to build roadblocks b/c our FEAR is so great that we don't want to do what we know we must.
Now that I've gone on forever (and I'm sorry b/c I hate long posts), I will answer your original question. How do I cope with all of this stress?
I write, read, listen to classical music, do yoga, play with my dog, go for walks, sleep, eat well, treat myself right, don't drink too much, don't smoke or do drugs -- basically, I do things that give me a sense of calm. One thing I am also doing later this month is a nutritional detox program for three weeks.
These are things that help me cope.
Not to mention, dressing... :)
Warm hugs,
Chrissy

Julie
06-28-2005, 04:48 PM
Chrissy,

My struggle here is completely internal. While I know my daughter wants in no way for me to transition (I don't know what my son wants, he still wan't talk to me) what I think of all the time is the closeness I felt with my dad and how having him in my life was so comforting, right up to the day he died. I was 46 years old then and married with kids but still loved talking to him and going down to Florida to visit him. He was my go to guy when I needed advice about anything. I am that to my daughter right now.

I have no idea how things would be if I transitioned so I'm choosing to play it safe... for now. Maybe things will change, they always do.

When I decided to transition last November I felt the weight of the world lift from my shoulders. I had never felt so unburdened in my life. I was happy beyond any expectations I could have ever dreamed. My wife had helped convince me this is what I needed to do so I assumed she would be there to support me all the way. She even told me she would be with me and hold my hand before I went in for SRS. She told me the kids would understand and so would the rest of my family. I began to believe I could finally do what I wanted to do all my life.

But things changed and suddenly my wife dropped her support. I feel it was because my son was so upset by it and she chose to take his side and left me. In the blink of an eye this wonderful dream turned into a nightmare.

I announced that transitioning wasn't for me and I wasn't going to do it in hopes of repairing some of the damage but the chain reaction had already begun and it was too late to stop it. Before I knew it I was right back where I started, only worse, the secret I kept for over 50 years was out to just about everyone I knew, and I didn't tell a single one of them.

This shouldn't be a cry for help because there is no way to solve this the way I'm feeling now. I'm just getting this off my chest just like one would in a therapist's office.

I thank everyone for their support. There's been a lot of kind words spoken here and reading them warms my heart. I know I'm stuck in limbo now and I put myself there but maybe this will help others struggling with identity issues.

Lesson #1: If you think your TS and thinking about getting married or having kids, dont .... until you resolve the inner conflict.

Maybe we can start establishing some rules for up and coming TS members?

Chrissycd
06-28-2005, 08:40 PM
and you have just given the first important piece of advice. That is, if you've decided to begin transition, one of the absolute worst things one could do is to get married, have kids, or both. Beginning a new relationship is probably not very wise either. This road is really only booked for one. No matter how much one might want to believe relationships can adjust, the odds say they will not withstand the changes. I have a friend who is challenging the odds, though, and I wish her nothing but luck. Her partner is a diamond in the rough, so to speak, and I'd be willing to bet they can make it, but failure in such circumstances has to be very high.
SO, suggestion #1 is -- do not begin a relationship, get married or have kids while transitioning. Sounds like a no brainer, but I think that many of us are lonesome, and we want to believe that we have a chance...
Chrissy

Stlalice
06-29-2005, 05:29 AM
I seriously doubt that any "rules" for transistion can be written - just as no two people are alike, no one's transistion will be exactly like that of anyone else. Two examples from opposite ends of the spectrum - one girl who I'll call A. who has transistioned to full time with the full support of her wife of 20+ years and adult kids. Not a totally smooth ride but better than most. Then there is the girl who I'll call K. whose family has esentially cut off all contact - she has grandkids that she has never met and maybe never will. For her sake I hope she gets the chance to meet them someday.

Guess what I'm trying to say here is that any rules or guidelines that can be written would have to be of the most general nature - a sort of a list of "these are some of the pitfalls of transistion - avoid them if you can" type list.

Julie
06-29-2005, 11:34 AM
I seriously doubt that any "rules" for transistion can be written - just as no two people are alike, no one's transistion will be exactly like that of anyone else. Two examples from opposite ends of the spectrum - one girl who I'll call A. who has transistioned to full time with the full support of her wife of 20+ years and adult kids. Not a totally smooth ride but better than most. Then there is the girl who I'll call K. whose family has esentially cut off all contact - she has grandkids that she has never met and maybe never will. For her sake I hope she gets the chance to meet them someday.

Guess what I'm trying to say here is that any rules or guidelines that can be written would have to be of the most general nature - a sort of a list of "these are some of the pitfalls of transistion - avoid them if you can" type list.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. My intentions were to establish rules for the younger crowd, those who haven't made life altering decisions such as getting married and having kids. It's those decisions that make transitioning so much harder.

If I knew then what I know now... :strugglin

MarieTS
06-29-2005, 11:46 AM
Just thinking out loud here, sisters-- but I'm beginning to think that SRS beyond a certain age creates as many problems as it solves due to family ties, career progression, etc. We need to identify it earleir in life before the wave of family guilt places the affected individuals in the hellish nightmares discussed in this post.

Unfortunately, it seems like some don't realize the extent of their gender dysphoroia until later years. Or could it simply be the cumulative weight of all those years of supression that finally give way to the need to transition?

I think the key to all this is to have a socially acceptable framework in place that allows the gender conflicted to be identified and treated appropriately (RLT, SRS, etc.) much earlier in life. But that can't happen until greater society acknowledges TS as a true medical condition and not some form of deviant behavior we're seeking public subsidy for.

I mean afterall, weren't most of us aware the conflict much earlier in life, but supressed it out of fear, shame, lack of awareness of options and support systems, etc.? The question is, how do we steer the medical, social, and political segments of our society in that direction?
We're all with you Julie and Deb!

Stlalice
06-29-2005, 05:42 PM
Marie and Julie,

I agree with you both in principle - the younger someone is when they transistion the better and easier for them. It would be wonderful if there was some way that trans folk could be identified at an early enough age that they could be helped without the suffering that many of us go thru. But, until transsexualism is dropped from the DSM and accepted by society as the medical condition that it is I don't see much change in how things are done happening. The encourageing thing is that more and more kids are coming out, getting treatment, and getting on with their lives. So, yes some "rules" or maybe better guidelines of things to avoid might save someone some grief. It certainly won't hurt to try. I'll be interested to see what you all come up with.

Julie
06-29-2005, 07:55 PM
You know, as I read the last two posts it was such simple common sense, something that anyone who is familiar with gender identity would agree with. When you talk to GI specialists, they will tell you there is no way to change the brain, your only recourse is to change the body, yet this condition still remains in the DSM. Contradictory? Absolutely!

So why is it still in the DSM? How long did it take for homosexuality to be removed from the DSM? Decades? And society still has a huge problem with homosexuality. But what we represent is contrary to something our society is built upon, males being the strong and powerful saviors against evil. Who will protect us from the bad guys if men want to emulate women? This may sound a bit dramatic but you know where I'm going with this. The average male is physically superior to the average female and because of this we teach our boys to grow up to the breadwinner and protector of their family. How on earth could our society let go of that? It's so deeply ingrained I doubt I'll see it change in my lifetime.

The things that have to change in order for society to become at least as accepting as it is toward homosexuality are monumental, in the eyes of the mainstream public. We have to let go of ideals that are as old as mankind.

But it's not hopeless. Where real advancements could be made is in the medical community. If health care officials and doctors and therapists were to become educated about gender identity and let go of these age old ideals, we could begin to see advancements that would lead to younger individuals being treated in the only way we know really works and that means being open to transitioning.

There are sites on the web that show pictures of some who have successfully transitioned and everyone who began transitioning at puberty looks like a natural woman today. You can't tell. Add to that all the procedures they DON'T have to endure (electrolysis, FFS, etc.) and the cost to transition drops considerably. It is, in my opinion, the absolute best way to deal with gender identity.

I remember reading about a mother in England who wanted to put her son on HRT. She recognized he was TS and wanted him to begin his transition as soon as possible. I think he was 10 at the time. The courts intervened and she fought them. What resulted was he was put on anti-androgens so male maturation wouldn't take place. When he reaches 18 he will be allowed to decide for himself if he wants to transition. Maybe not the best solution but certainly better than denying him any treatment at all. Why can't this be the treatment until society comes to accept there are people out there who feel they are in the wrong body? Where does one go to help educate the medical community and the parents of trans kids? Frankly, I don't know.

Tristen Cox
06-29-2005, 11:45 PM
I think we need more smart people like you Julie :thumbsup:

MarieTS
06-30-2005, 06:53 PM
Julie, you are SO correct!
Last week "Newsweek" magazine ran a special edition about medicine.
An article on cancer quoted a scientist as saying that some day in the future the medical community will look back at the present day manner of treating cancer by poisoning the body (chemotherapy) in the same way we now look back upon the middle-age's use of leeches and blood-letting to eat away infection and disease.
As soon as I read that I immediately thought of our TS dilemma and how someday the present day categorization and late treatment of TS will also be discarded as middle aged thought.
I so very much remember years before puberty knowing something was not right and asking about it, and being told not to think or talk about that.
Just think, some day in the future little kids will be identified and transitioned much easier and well before the crisis point. Isn't it nice to know that eventually this malady will be properly identified and reversed?!?!

Julie
06-30-2005, 09:54 PM
Do you think society is reluctant to accept allowing pre-puberty children to begin HRT because they are afraid it will become epidemic? Can you imagine all the boys growing up and being pressured to 'be a man', 'don't cry', 'be tough' having the option of saying, "Mom, Dad, I want to be a girl"? I think it would boggle the mind how many boys don't like the present day macho attitude they are pressured into following.

I doubt there would be many more boys wanting to change than there are true TSs in the world but I fully believe there would be a considerably large number who would take a middle or less macho road. I really can't think of any guy I grew up who was into being macho. Imagine the impact this would have on today's society!

Another curiosity - who is keeping macho alive and well? Men? Women? Both? Other macho guys? Macho loving girls? It's something I've always wondered.

Stlalice
07-01-2005, 06:59 AM
If you look at society in general as well as us in the trans community you will quickly conclude that the stereotypical true "macho male" or "uber fem" woman is a rarity. If you use a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being ultra/uber feminine and 10 being ultra macho male you will likely find it very rare that someone will be on the extreme ends of the scale. Most people will fall somewhere between the 2 and 9 positions with the majority clustered somewhere in the middle. So why do we have this problem with society condemming people who do not conform to gender norms? Because society and the medical community have long confussed or used interchangably the concepts of gender identity and physical sex. When the doctor looks between your legs at birth and decides male or female for the newborn you are started on a societal/social track that is the root of the problem that we face. So, what to do about it? Short of a really good, accurate test to determine gender identity in a newborn the only hope is to educate society/parents so that when the problem starts to show up it can be addressed then and there. For the borderline or late onset transsexual things may well remain hard - with humankind being the social creatures that we are they may well opt to continue to try to "fit in" and end up suffering for it. I suspect that in the long run there aren't any easy answers.

Chrissycd
07-01-2005, 07:30 PM
Before I accepted myself for who I am, I used to try to be "macho". I repaired my own car instead of bringing it to a shop. I'd pump iron at the gym. Blah, blah, blah!
It never felt right, and the older I became, the more I innately rebelled against it. It got to the point where it literally depressed me to sit at a wt. machine. I wanted to do YOGA, damnit!!! :p
The ironic thing (and I absolutely HATE to admit this) is that the more fem I become, the more I find macho type men to be attractive!!! :eek:
I don't mean the hairy backed Harley dude in leather type of macho. I mean the sexy kind of macho. I see more and more why I found it difficult to attract women in the past. It's not about looks w/ girls, it's about personality, and somehow "macho" plays a part in it. Am I making sense? It's like no brainer stuff to me now. It's so strange how I can see exactly how women see men, now. It's almost comical sometimes when I'm out somewhere and I'm watching some boys trying to hit on the girls. Guys tend to be pretty clueless. Of course, there is this small contingent of guys who just seem to "get it" and they have alot of success. Women are drawn to them like magnets. Funny, no?
Chrissy
ps - sorry to stray from the topic so far...

KrazyKat
07-01-2005, 08:02 PM
Yes, if people could be people first instead of a gender, from infancy, and do and act without the society "norms" of gender beat into our brains,
"WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD IT COULD BE!"

I was raised on a farm in the 60's with only two older brothers to follow, and I did! I was told, "Don't cry, sisssssy!" even though I was 4 years younger. My knees were always bloody from falling and my mom thought I'd never make it to start school! Made me tough, untill I caved in relationships to the society dom of men and their control. I've come full circle back to that tough, compassionate person who is about a 4 on that scale mentioned earlier.
I thought things had changed today, but I overhear my grandson's other grandma lecturing him on boy things and how important the color blue is! Makes my heart break, `cause he cried and had a fit when he had to accept the last toy at a party that was pink. He's 5, and already fully programed. Working on the deprogram, it's a good fight!
I don't know how we can deprogram people to give up the barbaric gender brainwashing, but I'm an army of one!

Julie, I'm so sorry for the cracks in your heart, I hope time and patience can heal them! Life is too short to give up people you love over what society sheep in this world can't wrap their brain around because of FEAR! :eek: Kat