What do we think we’re doing?

[Ruth]

I ask this in all seriousness because I’ve just finished reading Helen Boyd’s book, “My Husband Betty”. It’s a very well written book but it also makes some sweeping assertions about MtF CDers which were a little upsetting to me – until I thought some more about it.
Ms Boyd is married to a CDer and has collected a lot of interviews with other CDers, but she is still ultimately looking at CDing from the outside.
There is an objective reality to CDing: it’s men dressing in women’s clothes and trying to look like women. But what is really going on when we CD is an internal process.
The crucial factor that defines our CDing is what we think we’re doing when we CD.
I can only speak for myself but I think I’m a man who is liberating and expressing his feminine side in the most direct and concrete way I can think of – but inside I’m still a man. I don’t think I’m a woman trapped in a man’s body. I don’t think I become a woman in some mystical way when I CD. And I don’t want to alter my body with hormones or surgery to resemble a woman’s.
Ms Boyd makes that old joke about what’s the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual (Answer: about 2 years). But the trouble is, she thinks it’s true. This attitude is fuelled by the accounts of people she knows, and fears about the future of her own husband. There also may be an absurd peer pressure among CDers that makes them feel they have to progress along some kind of line in order to be better CDers.
There are people out in the real world who are not on the slippery slope, as she calls it. Please tell me I’m not alone in wanting to remain a man.

[Babette]

Ruth, you are not alone in the way you feel. I have said it several times on this forum and I will say again. I am happy being who I am. With that said, I respect everyone else's situation and follow the philosophy of "To each, their own."

Maybe her book should have been available 40 or or more years ago. If the difference between a CD and a TS is two years, then I am so far behind that I may never catch up to the expectations of her humor.

Babette

[carhill2mn]

No, you are not alone in wanting to remain a man. I suspect that is the more common feeling among members.
I, too, have read MS Boyd's book. There is a fair amount of history that has happened since she wrote that book. I used to belong to one of her sites but, I no longer do. Quite awhile ago I read that her husband was seriously considering transitioning to full time. You may be able to learn more via the internet.

[Deborah Jane]

There are people out in the real world who are not on the slippery slope, as she calls it. Please tell me I’m not alone in wanting to remain a man.

You aren't the only one who is happy where you are Ruth.

I've reached a point with my crossdressing i'm more than happy to remain at. I'm a guy who enjoys doing guy things, but sometimes i also like to dress as a woman and enjoy the other side of myself.

I've met a GG on here [Sheila] who understands and supports me with who i am, she enjoys both sides of me and is happy with the point i've reached with this.

I'm happy with who i am and so is Sheila :)

[Bluesman]

You're absolutely not alone. I've been CDing for about 40 years, mostly just lingerie, but periodically dresses, shoes, etc. I enjoy the clothing, sometimes erotically, sometimes not. I like getting in touch with the feminine side of myself, but I don't pretend to be, or act, or want to be a woman. I think there is a HUGE range of CDing, from those who just like wearing panties all the way to transexualism. Whatever your interest or need is, that's who you are. You don't have to fit into any pre-defined category.

[AllieSF]

Yes, Ruth, I agree with your point of view. I am me and no one else is. So no one can really generalize too much about who I am and how a may act, etc. I started all this a little over 2 years ago. Why? I really haven't the foggiest idea! Actually, I do a little. But I m not really concerned with the why, where, how and everything else. I refuse to be caught up in labels and gender identity issues. I do this because I enjoy it. Sometimes I think of all this as a big masquerade party for one, or for me and whoever I may be out with.

I love to go out and interact with others. Do I feel like a woman? I don't really know, what does it feel like? I do feel good when I become Allie, after putting on the wig and that last impotrant ingredient, lipstick. I get a smile on my face and I am ready to face the world (in a nice secure location not too close to home, of course!). I don't want to be a woman, don't think about being a woman. I do wonder what it may be like to have real breasts and a more natural woman's figure. But, no, I do not plan to make any changes, besides getting my ears pierced last Sunday. Will I feel like this in two more years? I do not know and do not rule it out since my current view point maya change drastically over time. I am still coming up the learning curve that a lot of you lovely ladies have already done over the many, many years you have been dressing.

[Shayna2008]

I haven't noticed pressure to follow any sort of line or general process. I have however read that CD'ing is considered a "progressive disorder". I dislike the term disorder, as I see this as a beautiful thing rather than some problem. But I have noticed that I'm progressing. When I was young, I've never dreamed of leaving the room en femme. Now most of my close friends know I CD. And now I'm doing laser hair removal later this month. This is my path though, not a general template to be followed.

I've seen more of a division between those who dress when they can and express themselves as much as their circumstances allow, and those who get surgery and major changes done. It's often referred to as "taking it to a whole new level or realm".

I'm not saying everybody desires to progress and change more and more over time. Everybody has their own reasons, feelings, and such for dressing.

100 TG people = 100 different reasons, ways, degrees, desire, etc of doing things.

[Violetgray]

Of course there are CD'ers who don't want to become women. Keep two things in mind:

1.) While not all cd's turn out to TS's, most TS's start as cd's.

2.) Helen's giving us her perspective. Betty is NOT a cd'er. Betty is a transsexual who hasn't transitioned because of her commitment to her wife.

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

The crucial factor that defines our CDing is what we think we’re doing when we CD.

I'm being ME. I'm being the me that society never allowed me to be. I'm not trying to be a woman, even though the terminology utilized is all in the feminine (as in girl, woman, etc.) I love women. I love how women of a certain style look so much, I want to OWN that look. I want to be it. And why should it be restricted to women only? Why can't I be feminine, and pretty, and sexy and anything else I want to be? The answer is, I can, and I will.


Ms Boyd makes that old joke about what’s the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual (Answer: about 2 years).

Ok, that IS funny - you have to admit. lol I've got a sense of humor about this kind of thing, regardless of whether or not she thinks it true. One thing is for certain - she does NOT know me at all. No uniform, blanket statement is true for any given group of people. Seriously, does anyone NOT know that in this day and age... well, aside from her? :heehee:


There also may be an absurd peer pressure among CDers that makes them feel they have to progress along some kind of line in order to be better CDers.

If it's out there, and maybe it is, I don't conform to society's gender rules - I'm sure not going to conform to any cd peer-pressure. I cd for ME. I make the rules in my life. I get told I'm less of a man because of ____, so why do I care if a cd says I'm less of a cd because of ____? Anyone has a problem with my cd-style than too bad for you. Call me what you want. Say what you will. I'm living my life for me, not you. I crossdress because I want to. My style is that of my OWN choosing. My long term goals are MINE to decide, not anyone else. And even though as I write this, I'm still in the closet (aside from my wife), that is for personal safety reasons and because I need to keep my job. On my time, I do as I please, and love who I am.


There are people out in the real world who are not on the slippery slope, as she calls it. Please tell me I’m not alone in wanting to remain a man.

I've got no plans for SRS. I like my man-parts just the way they are, and so does my wife. I feel like I end up saying this in a post at least once or twice a week. lol The body modifications I've made thus far are dietary and exercise-driven. And although I may choose some surgical alterations, they're more for age and imperfection reasons than anything. I think certain cosmetic surgeries would do my man-side some good, too. :)

[matrioshka]

No, you're not alone. I enjoy being a guy. I never had the feeling that I was a woman trapped in a man's body. Like you, I do this to express a side of my being. Two sides of the coin, if you will

I started to read My Husband Betty, and gave up. It seemed like ground that I had already covered. I can't blame her for feeling scared, though. I disagree on the transition issue. I spent a long time working that out in my mind, and came to the conclusion that it wasn't something I wanted to do. By her estimation, I should have been on the plane to Thailand by now.

Part of the fun in doing this (at least for me) is being able to go from one persona to another. It's the same reason I used to reenact.

Also, I never really gave a tinker's damn what anyone else thought about it. If my reasons for CD'ing don't meet with someone else's approval, it sucks to be them.

Katrina

"Son, I've known some freaks in my time. You're not one of them. You're just a feller with an unusual hobby." -A Queen of Alabama, and good friend.

[justtwosexy]

I truely think you have hit the proberial nail on head JRuth to put it in simplistic terms

[Areyan]

Ruth, you are not alone. :hugs: My husband is also just a CDer and though he really is discovering a "femme" side to himself and really enjoying it when he's dressed, he too still feels like a man inside and is happy being a man. He is content with dressing at times that are appropriate for us both and we both make time for it, though he enjoys all the benefits of being a man and really doesn't mind his "en homme" days.

I haven't read this book but have seen it mentioned many times in the forums. And I am sure a lot of CDers have thoughts or even fantasies about what it really would be like to be a woman or TS lifestyle. I think many get confused with ideas and can really only know if it's for them after careful consideration (especially if they have not previously expressed any real desire to change their sex). Yes, some do eventually go the TS/SRS/24-7/HRT route but not all CDers have these needs and I think its fine and normal for you if you enjoy your male time too. What is for you is not what is for another.

:hugs:

Akira

[2b.Lauren]

Good thread. I have not read the book so I can not comment from the perspective from which it was written. In response to the others that have posted before me, I am a bit more torn. I have reported that I often feel that female trapped in the male body. I believe these thoughts transitioned as I got older, which prevented me from transitioning. Now I am happy to be both feminine and masculine all at the same time. To express both sides of me when I am able to. I also think it speaks to the level of how much pleasure you get from being the gender you are or in our cases to include the one we also enjoy being. Without going into a great deal of personal discussion, my pleasure at being a man is not that great. My relationship sexually with my wife has been a mess most of our marriage, by no fault of my own, and not connected to my crossdressing. Sex does not make up that full identity but it plays such a huge role in the pleasure we get from being who we are. It just is what it is and she is a refuser of sex.

[Sapphire]

Hi Ruth,

Yes I agree. But from what Violent says it would seem that the author is generalising from her own first hand experience of her partner’s situation. Nonetheless it is very misleading to suggest that all crossdressers incline towards surgical or chemical intervention – this simply is not true. In fact I would go even further and suggest that many crosssdressers enjoy their masculinity even more when they have an outlet to enjoy their feminine side.

[Dragster]

Let me sign up here as well. I am very happy to be a male, I love doing loads of male things, I love being married to my wonderful wife, but I also love CDing, making an effort to appear as a sophistocated, sexy woman, and I've no wish to take it any further. I've been this way for 50 years, so there's little chance of it changing now.

Tony

[CD Susan]

Hi Ruth, you certainly are not alone. I feel the same way as you do in that I have no plans to surgically alter my body. I have been cd'ing for the past 50 years and have never seriously considered GRS. I do feel the need to express my feminine side and do so almost every day. The clothing and feminine things that go with dressing accomplish this for me. The thrill of going out dressed is the ultimate for me and I will never progress beyond this. I still enjoy my guy side at times and feel fortunate to be able to express both sides of myself.

[Nicki B]

Ms Boyd makes that old joke about what’s the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual (Answer: about 2 years). But the trouble is, she thinks it’s true. This attitude is fuelled by the accounts of people she knows, and fears about the future of her own husband.

Where, anywhere in that book, does Helen say we will all transition? :idontknow: If anything, the exact opposite - but that book was written specifically to help partners of trans people, not CDers? That's why, for many of us, it's an uncomfortable book - it describes many selfish behaviours... Would you say they're not true?

But, in the case of her partner, it is true - go read her most recent book, 'She's Not The Man I Married (http://tinasviews.blogspot.com/2007/07/review-shes-not-man-i-married.html)'?

[Jonianne]

You are not alone.

I have never felt the need or strongly desired to become a female. I identify "with" females in some ways (mostly emotionaly), but I do not identify "as" a female. I have too much of a male mind and body.

I am a crossdresser. I can touch on my feminine side when I need to and then go back to living my everyday life as a male. My feelings about this has been stable in this way for 45 years (even more so after fully accepting myself 13 - 15 years ago).

[TGMarla]

I guess it's all a matter of your own perspective. I think many of us try to "be" women when they dress. This may well be from an inner desire or a wonder at what it may be like to actually be a woman rather than a man. I have often wondered this. And although I feel that I have some transexual tendencies, I have concluded that SRS is not the path that I intend to take in this life. I will remain as I am, a crossdresser.

I understand that some crossdressers have no desire to actually be women, but I wonder sometimes why any man would want to emulate a woman without ever having at least a passing thought at what it would be like to be female. There just about has to be something there...even a little.

But that said, sex change is not the obvious, nor the most likely result in a lifetime of crossdressing. Statistically, it's about the least likely, in fact. So to your point, Betty is wrong in her assessment.

[goofus]

I think that you have to have some empathy for Ms. Boyd. I think most of the GG's can back me up on this, there is a fear that we may decide we want to be women full time. I don't think Helen was saying that *all* crossdressers will eventually want to transition.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Decided to reply, since I have autographed copies of both "My Husband Betty" and "She's Not the Man I Married". And I'm a frequent poster on the mHB boards.(over 2800 posts, #14 in post count)

When Helen started researching transstuff, she was told by the powers that be, that CD's never transition. Well, we all know that isn't true. Some of them, do. Enough that wives/partners/SO's should be warned about the chance of doing so, or the chance of them "wanting to do so" even if they don't because they want to hold to their "husband" commitment. MHB and SNTMIM's were written with partners in mind more than us transfolk.

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[jruiz]

You are not alone. I don't want to be a woman. I don't want to transition. I don't want to appear feminine when I'm in drab. I'd certainly like to improve as a CD, but I'm really happy with my male life.

The first (and only) time I went to a transition service, I kind of felt that I didn't belong. Actually, the urge went for a while after the experience.

They asked me for my girl's name. When I told them that I don't have one (actually, I've never though about it until then), they were pretty surprised. It was a great group, but I didn't feel identified with most of the gurls there.

Well, but that's just me. I respect other situations.

[LisaM]

Ruth,

I don't really know if there is a real answer that satisfies everyone. I think (but I do not know) that Helen's spouse, Betty, considers herself more of a TS than a CD. Maybe she started as a CD but I think she feels that she is more of a TS now.

I have always felt that I was TS but it always felt easier to be a CD. I didn't want to be TS. I still dislike the idea that I am TS because it suggests that I have to go further. Being a CD means being comfortable with being a man and I have never felt comfortable being a man.

So I think you will find many people who feel comfortable like you about having no interest in being TS and yet you will also find people like me that feel that they have always wanted to be women and that CDing does nothing for them.

Good luck finding yourself! I am still trying to find my place of comfort.

[Nicki B]

So to your point, Betty is wrong in her assessment.

Betty is Helen's SO..

[Starling]

I've had moments while dressed when I felt I wanted to be a real woman, and not just a guy in a dress. But those moments have always passed, and I'm left with the kind of afterglow that follows a really nice vacation. I have a lot invested in my male identity and don't want to give it up, and I am totally committed to my wonderful SO, but I relish the occasional fantasy of femaleness and wouldn't want to give that up either. So it's more than just dressing, but it's less than being.

I will say there's nothing I undertake as a man that a woman couldn't do, so I don't consider what I do in drab "guy stuff." It's just the stuff I happen to do with the people who are old, old friends of the regular, ordinary male me.

LAL

[DonnaT]

Yes, Betty has transitioned, or more accurately, is transitioning.

When Helen wrote the book, Betty was just a CDer, and Helen was doing a lot of research for herself, and other partners.

And she definitely knows it isn't true that the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual (Answer: about 2 years). Even if Betty is transitioning.

And I am also a CDer who has no aims towards transitioning. I am quite happy as I am, and in fact would prefer not to even be a CDer. But, being trans, there is nothing I can do about it. I do have a choice, whether to hate it or live with it. I've never hated it, can't change it, so I live with it.

[Mrs. X (gg)]

Hi Ruth:

My hubb2B enjoy's CDing a lot, but he enjoys being male a lot too. At this moment in his life, he doesn't need to seek futher the dressing "hobbie" .

I have to accept though, that I fear the possibility that he might want to take a step further in the future, but I don't know that and I don't dwell in that thought, he has said very, very clearly what he wants and needs and what he doesn't want and don't need, so I believe him and love him just the way he is.

So no you're not alone and yes I believe you as well.

:)

[docrobbysherry]

for the other shoe to drop!:eek:

I've read SO MANY posts about how the sexual aspect of dressing calms over time. When that happens, CDs get, "in touch with their female side"!

After dressing for 10+ years, I've passed the, " I'd LOVE to have a woman's body", phase.:)

But, I wait in vain so far, for a sign that I HAVE a fem side at all!:sad:
From what I've read, it's just a matter of time, rite?:straightface:

Now, I dress to APPEAR as female as possible, and for the feel of the ladies gear. It is the ultimate thrill for this oldie!:D

Is it possible Betty is correct? Just NOT to the degree she stated?:brolleyes:

[MissConstrued]

They asked me for my girl's name. When I told them that I don't have one (actually, I've never though about it until then), they were pretty surprised.


Me neither. The idea seems strange to me. :idontknow:


What do I think I'm doing? I dunno. Looking pretty & having fun is enough of an explanation for me.

[Kelsy]

Of course there are CD'ers who don't want to become women. Keep two things in mind:

1.) While not all cd's turn out to TS's, most TS's start as cd's.

2.) Helen's giving us her perspective. Betty is NOT a cd'er. Betty is a transsexual who hasn't transitioned because of her commitment to her wife.

Totally agree Violet ! I believe there are far more TS folk who CD that are in denial about there true nature and many do not transition because of lifes circumstances - non-op Transexuals

Kelsy

[Kate Simmons]

You are absolutely right Ruth. CDing was a vehicle I utilized to help me accept and get in touch with my feelings. While it is no longer a compulsion but now a choice after integrating the feelings into my overall self, it has made me a better person and I have more of a full spectrum perspective on things. Like any gift, a lot depends on how it is used as to how effective it will be.:)

[tricia_uktv]

What I am doing? Having fun! I'm more happy now than I've ever been in my life because I'm finally being myself. As for transitioning, who knows? But not just yet.

[Georgia Rose]

Ruth, I think a lot of us are like you. We like dressing as a woman or you might say acting the part but that is as far as it goes. The thought of becoming a woman is as far from me as anything could be. I enjoy being a guy but like the feeling of being someone else for a short period of time every so often. The fact that that person is a woman is not important. It is what I like to do. Haven't read the book but I would think, like others here, it is more about a TS situation than a CDer.
:drink:

[Cary]

Perhaps it needs to be said, gently and often, that not all crossdressers are TS. Because there are newbies on the site, because there are newly-arrived wives and girlfriends, and because there are people who simply don't know what the words mean.



My take: A crossdresser is any person who wears the clothes of the other sex. This breaks down into:

Occasional crossdressers - Hallowe'en, practical jokers, etc
Fashion crossdressers - some metrosexuals and most women in trousers fall into this category.
Fetish crossdressers - who use clothes as a substitute for sex.
Professional crossdressers in the light entertainment industry (female impersonators/drag artists), or in serious entertainment (actors playing a role).
Other professionals: the occasional spy/undercover policeman/criminal in disguise.
Drag queens - a satirical sub-section of the entertainment field.
Transvestite crossdressers - most of us on this site for whom crossdressing is an end in itself, motives many and various.
Transsexual crossdressers - a few people on this site for whom the cross-dressing is merely an incidental to their transition of identity.
So no woman need say to her CD man: "Does that mean you want a sex-change?" any more than she needs to say: "Does that mean you want a job as a drag artist?" or "Are you going to rob a bank?" Category error.

Sorry to labour the point but as I wrote above, perhaps it has to be said gently and often.

Katie,

Thanks for the breakdown. There are a lot of us younger CDers who are still trying to defind themselves. I have to say I'm loving and discovering who I am everyday. I can have my cake and eat it to. As a CDer I can wear the clothes when I want in touch with my femm side and I can still be a man.

[RobynB]

You are right, Ruth. I enjoy my gurl time and my boy time. I have been doing this over 50 years, so that 2 year difference does not apply to me and probably most others.

[JoAnne Wheeler]

RUTH - I want to crossdress whenever I need to or have the urge - but I do

not want SRS and I want to remain a heterosexual male CROSSDRESSER - the

absolute best of both worlds


JoAnne Wheeler

[StephanieT]

RUTH - I want to crossdress whenever I need to or have the urge
JoAnne Wheeler

Wouldn't it be wonderful to live in fantasyland. The only way to acheive that is to live by yourself and have absolutely NO consideration for others.

[alexmusic]

Seems like the error lies in trying to pigeonhole CD’ers because every single one of us is different and have had different situations and experiences which make each of us unique, we are all but snowflakes.

I’ve been a CD for 25 years and had always enjoyed my boy time and my girl time and had never thought of transitioning fully but that is until recently and life has so many twists and turns that as of lately I’ve been contemplating this as an actual option, feeling more like I am truly female in a male body this is of course just my personal experience.
This is not to say that this is not just something temporary based on recent personal triumphs I’ve experience in my coming out but I’ve learned that I cannot worry about future situations that have not yet occurred and that I have no way of controlling so all I can do is enjoy the moment I am living and know that my situation could very well change.

It seems like the author has only had the one experience with her husband and has not really had the opportunity to meet and get to know other CD’ers (I’ve not read the book though so my conclusion is based on the posts I’ve read)

She could benefit from reading the posts in this forum to experience the diversity of cross dressing

[Sheila]

RUTH - I want to crossdress whenever I need to or have the urge - but I do JoAnne Wheeler


And what about when Mrs Wheeler wnats HER Man JoAnne ... seems U want to have your cake and eat it whild she gets a megre scattering of crumbs if she is lucky

By the way congratulations on your 38th Wedding Anniversery Today ........ I have posted A congratulations thread in the lounge for the two of you :)

[mklinden2010]

Ruth,

I read Helen's first book years after it came out and picked up on several mistakes she seemed to be making. I thought her book a "good try," but clearly unfinished in its look at crossdressing and crossdressers... And, uh, people.

So, it did not surprise me to order the second book and to read she'd later found herself in a situation where the "man" she married wasn't the man "she" married. Long story short, these issues can be a slippery slope for anybody.

It seems, Ruth, you are where I was when I finished the first book. Disquieted, and offering that there are more than a few things amiss with her experience and conclusions.

Poor Helen, arguing that, "If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, sits like a duck - then it isn't a duck." Yes, good try. Good intentions... But, I'd like to say to her:

"Helen, maybe it's a duck - of some sort! What remains is to figure out what kind of "duck" it will finally be. Helen, you have experience, but maybe not the best kind. What if what you and everyone else you talked to thought was a duck turns out to be a water bird of some sort - and, surprise! - winds up actually being a swan, or, a Canadian goose? Well, you were sort of close - and getting closer...."

I note, in the responses today, several posters who say, "I'm a man who..." There are others who post about expressing "their other side." Some have finished their journey, in their own minds, others are still pursuing what they wish to be, might become. Many haven't even really started.

Good post.

I wish Helen would write a third book titled:

"I'm not the woman Betty married, and, neither is he."

That third effort could be very illuminating and probably more accurate of CD/TS/TG than anything to date.

Which would be a good thing for everybody, I think.

Edit:

After Reading Katie B's post, I nominate her to write the next book!

[Patricia1]

Ruth – Nicely done, this thread is thoughtful & provocative. It’s always good to stop and think: what’s going on here? If some of our great investment/regulator minds had done the same instead of lusting after quick profits we might not be so deep in this current economic downturn. But, I digress.

What you have expressed is just one part of the vast spectrum of identity subsumed by this universe of ours. Like the spectrum of light, individually we see only what our eyes can see. We can only know that which experience has taught us to be real. What is real for you is the need to express what you see as the feminine in you without the need to explore beyond that. You are a man who, for whatever reason, must act on his need to explore the woman in him but who recognizes that is all he needs to do - to simply acknowledge that need but maintain the centrality of his masculine self.

When we look at all our friends gathered here and read of their hopes, dreams, fantasies, fears, needs, “druthers” and so on, we are seeing the spectrum of experience which encompasses our gender confusion. I don’t mean confusion in the befuddled sense, although there is plenty of that. By confusion, I mean to describe the multiple layers of experience which are seen differently depending on your perspective.

When I was 21 years old, I was confused, puzzled, embattled, troubled, unsure, etc. about who I was (I still am, to a great extend, but I take that to be the normal human condition). On one occasion I was in a “magazine” shop in midtown Manhattan browsing through “girlie” magazines when I came across a crossdresser mag and there was an instant epiphany, a connection. I recognized immediately how very satisfying this was but also how very troubling. “Is this me?”, I thought. The answer was clearly “yes”. There was a “but” however (no, not mine), a limit I was not prepared to go beyond. The 21-year old lad was clearly a man with an unusual need, a secret need, a desperate need but one that had realistic limits, from his perspective.

The magazines showed the same spectrum of experience that we see on this forum. They featured everything from transsexuals on their way to a different place to down-home crossdressers who liked putting on mom’s underwear and nothing more. At that tender age I imagined myself traveling the whole length of that spectrum, accompanied by guilt, doubt and fear. Hormones and youth are a dangerous combination. Sometimes they grab the unsuspecting, needful type and convince them that there is only one true path to self-discovery, whereas the rest of us believe that there are many roads to be traveled on the road to awareness.

There is clearly a very distinct emotional component to all of this “confusion” that can easily be distinguished from its rational counterpart. One side is nearly unknowable in its entirety while the other side is full of coldness, absent of light and unforgiving in judgment. The paths that we all travel are uniquely individual but with signposts and landmarks we all recognize. One thing we need to keep in sight – our common humanity, a humanity uncommonly expressed.

Sorry for the length and the babble but we do need to stop every now and then and ask, “what’s going on here?”

[Nicki B]

..many do not transition because of lifes circumstances - non-op Transexuals

There are plenty of non-ops out there who have transitioned - some are legally female, certainly in the UK?

We're all different..

[Tracy46]

Ruth,
You bring a up a good question... But just like all of the others here I enjoy being a guy and then at those times I like dressing up and feeling feminine, Maybe to relive the stress of being a guy or maybe to change my realm.. For me I have a lot of testosterone running thru my veins and I have been trying to reduce this a little to help in keeping calm.

So I have been taking BO but not to become a woman but to reduce the stress of being a man.. (How confusing am I :D ) But at the same time the feeling of something soft and silky underneath my work cloths gives me a rush and that makes me smile.

But just like any guy I like to watch football with friends and drink a beer.. So I think CD's have the best of both we can be fem when we want and rough and tough when needed.

[linnea]

I don't think that you are alone. There are many CDs who feel the same way that you do.
I also think that you have made some VERY good points about CDs and their motivations and aspirations.
Thank you.

[erica12b]

you said it better than i did in my thread, all i want is both worlds not just the fem side

[Sharon B.]

You are not alone, there are times when I enjoy being a man and there are times when I enjoy dressing as a woman.
I have been doing this for over forty years, so I guess she can throw out the two year rule for me.

[Tora]

There are certainly many definisions of being CD, TV ect. I feel like a recreational C.D. I love shopping, trying on clothes, the purchase. I have a draw back at being 240 lbs, 6'1" in stockings with a scared complection from early skin disorder-acute ance. So, I love the clothes. I also love my wife of 38 years, family, being a grandfather. Cd is a part of me. I love it. There are so, so many degres of our hobby. By the same token, that is why Tri-ess, is right for some who don't need to have their wife or SO chatting with a Ms.Boyd about her own version of ts. There is not ONE mold.

Great Post, thank you!! Thanks Group, all ahead full, just different course.

[Carin]

Excellent topic and question of viewpoint Ruth? And very thoughtful responses too. I nominate the thread as an educational sticky.

"what is really going on when we CD is an internal process" is indeed something only we ourselves can identify, and even then it is not easy. Conclusion by external observation is just guesswork. I realize that that sucks for our SOs etc. that want to know. If you need to accurately know the future in order to proceed with life, you are on the wrong planet.

A psychiatrist said to my ex that it is unusual to not fully transition. Clearly there is a perception that we are on that slippery slope with only one termination point - the desire to be a woman. It is our challenge to emphasize that there are other stable states - outside the binary. Most of us do come through the same door - crossdressing - with a common lack of understanding just how far down that path we might go. Predicting the future is about as reliable as predicting whether we will be in an auto accident in our lifetime.

I posted a thread 6 months ago about being Full Time (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90056) transgendered. Reading it today, nothing has changed, and the practical obstacles that might restrict me are largely irrelevant. Indeed I am more seated in that space today, growing roots even.

For me at least, my physiologically sexual identity is male, and I have no issue with it. My Gender Identity as self defined is a well mixed cake batter that is more feminine than masculine. I am not a woman trapped in a man's body. I am a feminine man - and proud of it.

I agree with the comment about "peer pressure". Discussion on passing as a woman, not being read etc. emphasizes an ultimate destination. I "pass" as a human being, a transgendered person and a father. The absence of a commonly accepted label virtually eliminates the condition from being accepted as a legitimate stable state. But so be it. It is not uncommon for a state to exist long before it is recognized. Yes we exist. Yes, we are not alone.

[sometimes_miss]

Well, I'm just trying to get through each day with as little discomfort as possible. That said, I go through most days with the constant feeling of wanting to discard my male clothes, and put on something feminine pretty much every waking moment. The urge isn't always overwhelming, but it's always there. So rather be driven nuts by having 'an itch I can't scratch', I just give in to the desire, and scratch it. For me that means dressing as female as possible, eliminating all connection to my male attire. At least, that's what I think I'm doing.

[veronica1955]

I cd to let the female side have some time in the sun. But I also enjoy the company of another cd in the bedroom, where it becomes erotic, and I can become totally submissive, which to me equates to being as female as a man can be.

[carolinoakland]

Your not alone, and there's nothing wrong with you wanting to be a man as well as a crossdresser and does not mean that you will eventually become a TS. A lot do, I'm one. It was the experience being a cd that let me express that side and get in touch with myself. By the way, I never read my husband betty, but I did read the sequel, which deals a lot more with betty's emerging ts'ness. She wrote a line that really helps with me view of myself , I'm just trying to " become the woman I would have been, had I been the woman I would have been." It really rang true with me, but that's just me. And the next time some 'well meaning' ts try's to TELL you anything about yourself remember my favorite definition of the transgendered ( and that include's CD's like you.)

All poodles are dogs. but not all dogs are poodles. Carol

[Jess_cd32]

No your not alone in your thinking. I have a feminine side but also love my male side just as much so no transitioning for me either. When I dress I'm letting out that female side of me, she's abit wild regarding dressing and makeup but so is my male side in so many ways.
I simply integrated the best of the two into who I am today and found inner peace with it, nirvana so to speak. I enjoy being a cd and having that side of me. I actually consider myself lucky at this point to have that wonderfull side to explore and enjoy. As I've said so many times before, we're all so different and unique in our own ways. Ms. Boyd's theory was just debunked by this cd as I've been doing it since age 7-8 and I'm not a transexual.

I think my SO may have read something from her on the net as she quoted something so similar the other night and said "within two years you'll be walking down the street dressed":brolleyes:......hardly, I don't like causing pileups:heehee:

[Sarah...]

Please tell me I’m not alone in wanting to remain a man.

Nope. Of course not! There's loads of you in that position. Which is great!

I couldn't get into Helen Boyd's first book. However SNTMIM was a different kettle of fish altogether. We'd decided I'd transition by the time I read that and reading it was like holding up a mirror to our position.

Sarah...

[Michelia]

where you got the feeling she thinks all of us eventually transition. The joke stands to illustrate Helen's fears in her quest to understand.

I read the book three times, dated as it was when I read it. I think she did a great job with a very difficult subject on which there was a great deal of conflicting viewpoints (and still are.) She researched it well.

There are few people that have done more to advance our cause and get the word out about us. Personally, I think if you CD then this should be required reading. I recommend those who haven't to do so, keeping in mind it is old by now.

I will never transition. Yet once I said I would never experiment with any hormones. That slippery slope does occur. I am happy as a man with a woman that loves me as a girl. What else could I ask for?

I am coming to the conclusion that I am a little stranger than most in a way. I like variety. It is my personality. One day I wake up wanting to be very girly. Another day I wake up wanting to be somewhere in the middle. Other days I just want nothing to do with Michelia - except for my panties!)

[Jan W]

Ruth,

I too have pondered this very thing. In a lot of literature especially autobiographical the subject starts out an off the shelf crossdresser and as time progresses he becomes transexual - full speed ahead - I have to become a woman.

The old joke doesn't seem so funny.

Karen Murphy wrote an inspirational article called "The Dark Side of Crossdressing" Having trouble finding it in it's entirety but if you haven't read it and you can find it it is quite fascinating.


Jan

[Carly D.]

Hard core cross dressers are more than likely wanting to transition.. what I mean by hard core are those who live 24/7 dressed as fem and have made the choice to be represented as female in all aspects of their lives.. I think that in my case I felt like I wanted to try to transition only once and this was when I was about twenty five years old.. and that feeling lasted maybe a few months.. at that time I wasn't even buying my own clothes.. I was sneaking into certain other womens clothes hampers and the lot.. what changed my mind about transitioning?? I think I saw different shows about the procedures and what it involved to do such things.. and I'm so against surgery on my body for anything now that it will never happen.. back then maybe but now no way!!.. I like wearing womens clothes.. I'm a cross dresser...

[Tip or Ozma]

For the past two months I have lurked and rarely responded to other threads. It seems like much of the discussion of relationship stress just danced around this subject. I feel that a large number of us are "just men who like to dress as women," not "men who want to be women." This thread really resonates with who I am as a human being.

I responded to my wife with this thought last month after spending no time in frilly things because of a medical situation. We were also re-focusing on the male-female intimacy in our relationship as well.

Perhaps if some of our partners took a step back and recognized this idea it would lower their stress levels as well.

For thirty years I have also dressed as a nineteenth-century male--for the fun, diversion, interesting experimental anthropological aspects and some personal fulfillment of trying to live in another time period--something as truly unrealistic (for me) as changing my gender. I am content to enjoy women's clothing, and I am so very grateful to have a companion whose understanding and support makes it as stress-free as my pretend time-travel.

[donnaking]

The MHB forum is very much TS centric. CD's are far outnumbered there by TS's and those in transition. If Helen's first book was the first book you or your wife read on crossdressing, it would probably scare the hell out of you.
And yes, since the first book was written, Betty is living fulltime femme and is on hormones.

[rlars1]

I absolutely agree with what you said. My husband is very much like you. He loves being a man but also loves dressing up in womens clothing every once in a while. It certainly doesn't me he is all of a sudden going to change to something he has never wanted to be. It is ignorance and it is irritating. Every one has their choices to make some are headed down the road to transformation but it is not right to lump everyone into that catagory just because they CD.

[Ralph]

There also may be an absurd peer pressure among CDers that makes them feel they have to progress along some kind of line in order to be better CDers.
I've seen that right here - people who are just exploring these urges for the first time and being told that dressing in private is a "first step" and soon enough they'll need to go out, do the wigs/makeup/forms, etc.



There are people out in the real world who are not on the slippery slope, as she calls it. Please tell me I’m not alone in wanting to remain a man.
Not at all! I'm very fond of my dangly bits, I like to use 'em as they were designed to be used, and I don't want to be called "ma'am" under any circumstances. I just want to wear dresses and that's been more than enough to make me happy for 25+ years.

ralph

[Linda Laman]

I love being a guy and will always do so. I also love CDing and see no conflict - it's just part of me.

[Stefanie_Adams]

Of course there are CD'ers who don't want to become women. Keep two things in mind:

1.) While not all cd's turn out to TS's, most TS's start as cd's.

2.) Helen's giving us her perspective. Betty is NOT a cd'er. Betty is a transsexual who hasn't transitioned because of her commitment to her wife.
Violetgray, Your second talking point is right on. Now I have never read the book mind you, but I can relate to Number 2.

I don't hate being a man, but I like being a woman better and it is not all about the clothes and makeup. it is just how I feel inside.
Stefanie