Finally got the "I feel like you're both the man and woman" speech

[kathrynjanos]

So my gf and I almost broke up this morning over some pretty nasty (and pretty stupid) fighting yesterday. Anyway, we had a discussion this morning as she was trying to tell me to pack up and leave (we don't live together, BUT I keep things there for staying there).

Among the things that come up (primarily, I'm an asshole (totally true), and that I don't respect her (I don't enough, but I am very much a person of 'give me a good reason') ), the one that bugged the hell out of me was bringing up my crossdressing. In fairness, I don't know where it's leading yet, but I can't afford a counselor until I get another job with healthcare.

But anyway, she tried the all too classic "I feel like you're both the man and woman in this relationship, and that's good enough for you." Wha-wha-what??? I knew what she meant, and I found it to be bothersome more than it pissed me off. I've seen a thousand of you posting about your own experiences with that, but how did you deal with it?

My response was a very measured and simply stated, "that's not true," as it implies that somehow I'll satisfy myself in all ways possible that a relationship entails. Obviously I cannot, nor do I choose to be with her for some ancillary purpose, even if I feel it is inevitable that we will one day be permanently separated, but who knows?

[kellycan27]

And your point is?

[anna kate]

Kathryn, The way I see it, the relationship is on the way out, unless you do a turn round and make that lady think you are the best thing thats come along since "little green apples". Just my opinion.

[docrobbysherry]

U r asking US what your GF brings into your relationship? If u don't know, maybe she's rite!?:eek:

Altho I'm single, and Sherry is my "SO" rite now, for all intents and purposes, I WANT and NEED a woman! For: companionship, communication, tenderness, compassion, sensitivity, sensuality, and even differences of opinion:brolleyes:, and much much more!:)

[sissystephanie]

Not to be insulting, but you sound as though you are young. And most probably part of the "ME" generation. Why would she think you are an a**hole? Do you act that way on purpose? Your response to not giving her enough respect seems to indicates that. Is that how you were raised? If you truly love a woman, she should always have your total respect unless she does something really stupid.

From what you have said, I will predict that the relationship will not last very long. She has very plainly let you know that she wants you to be a man. You can be a man and still wear female clothing.

If she can't accept you being a CD, you should find another girl who will accept you dressing. But if you really want to be a girl, then you are going to have to find the right "mate" who will accept that. As my tag line says, "lady on the outside, man underneath." Always have been that way. My late wife acccepted me that way and we had 49+ years together.

I suggest you have a sitdown with yourself and examine why you act the way you indicate, if you want your relationship to continue.

[kathrynjanos]

And your point is?

Really only that I got that speech, sharing my experience, and asking how you dealt with that if you got the same. It was written in the post, you know.


Kathryn, The way I see it, the relationship is on the way out, unless you do a turn round and make that lady think you are the best thing thats come along since "little green apples". Just my opinion.

Well, it's not all my fault, naturally. She's a bit of a drama queen and tries to show off how terrible I am and how much an innocent victim she is in front of everyone else. It's my own fault if I play into it, but that's something we addressed today as well. I can't convince her of something I don't believe, though, which is to say that if I don't find her to be the greatest thing in the world (though in a lot of ways, she really is the best thing that ever happened to me, I just find that too trite to say directly), how can I convince her of that?

It could honestly be my natural contrarian nature, which I've found in the past to even cloud my own judgement on such matters. So you might be right on that, I think I need to think that over. Thank you for your insight, it is appreciated.


U r asking US what your GF brings into your relationship? If u don't know, maybe she's rite!?:eek:

Altho I'm single, and Sherry is my "SO" rite now, for all intents and purposes, I WANT and NEED a woman! For: companionship, communication, tenderness, compassion, sensitivity, sensuality, and even differences of opinion:brolleyes:, and much much more!:)

No, I don't actually recall asking for your opinion what she brings to the table. I know what she brings to the table, actually, and some things are great, others are just drama and the color black (wears way too much black!). But I think as I stated to Anna Kate above, perhaps I've been focusing on the negative too much lately, and so I let that overwhelm anything else. We both do it, but if there's a guilty party to that, it's me for sure.

My specific question was if you've gotten the same statement (title of the thread), and how you addressed it?


Not to be insulting, but you sound as though you are young. And most probably part of the "ME" generation. Why would she think you are an a**hole? Do you act that way on purpose? Your response to not giving her enough respect seems to indicates that. Is that how you were raised? If you truly love a woman, she should always have your total respect unless she does something really stupid.

From what you have said, I will predict that the relationship will not last very long. She has very plainly let you know that she wants you to be a man. You can be a man and still wear female clothing.

If she can't accept you being a CD, you should find another girl who will accept you dressing. But if you really want to be a girl, then you are going to have to find the right "mate" who will accept that. As my tag line says, "lady on the outside, man underneath." Always have been that way. My late wife acccepted me that way and we had 49+ years together.

I suggest you have a sitdown with yourself and examine why you act the way you indicate, if you want your relationship to continue.

I do not *usually* intend to be an asshole, and when I am, it's often accompanying a biting sarcasm and not meant as true. But I've often failed to understand the human condition, and this is the main problem as far as she and I are concerned. I do not often understand emotional issues with people. I've often wondered if I have some form of Aspberger's or something to that effect. Again, something to address when I have a counselor.

Define young. I am 26. I actually find myself thinking of "me" fairly infrequently when there are other people present, so yes, I do tend to resent that kind of generalization, but I know the type you mean. My cousin and his friends are very much like that.

My gf has done many things to lose my respect. Obviously she hasn't lost it completely, or even enough to break up with her, she is a good person. But I am uncertain as to when she will next break the same trust that she broke before, so I cannot respect her completely. There are numerous examples that I wont' go into here, but be assured that they are not minor issues.

I think that given time, she would accept where I wish to go with this, wherever that is, but if she can't, then of course we would go our separate ways. She can't expect me to change any more than I her something so ingrained. As to the CD, well, she accepts it and she doesn't at different times and degrees. It's difficult to explain, that much is for sure. One day she'll be helping me pick out and discuss makeup and tips and tricks, and the next she'll be picking on me for some femme item I've got on or thing I'm doing. It makes her very difficult to read and her reactions difficult to predict.

In some ways, I'm thinking that maybe her negative reactions have less to do with her acceptance and more to do with her concern that she is somehow becoming "irrelevant" to the relationship. She is, of course, not. But something is giving her that feeling or impression, even if it's just paranoia, so I've got to address that with her at another time to see what she is so worried over.

[kellycan27]

I think that you pretty much answered your own question. You don't respect her and you are an asshole.... to quote you. Seems like two excellent reasons to give you the boot. maybe it's time to grow up and consider that it's not just about you. You are likey an asshole and disrespectful ... to quote you whether in drab or while dressed..ever consider that? Probably not, considering that you are an asshole.... to quote you.

[kathrynjanos]

I think that you pretty much answered your own question. You don't respect her and you are an asshole.... to quote you. Seems like two excellent reasons to give you the boot. maybe it's time to grow up and consider that it's not just about you. You are likey an asshole and disrespectful ... to quote you whether in drab or while dressed..ever consider that? Probably not, considering that you are an asshole.... to quote you.

:eek: We have a winner! Woo!!!

[ReineD]

In some ways, I'm thinking that maybe her negative reactions have less to do with her acceptance and more to do with her concern that she is somehow becoming "irrelevant" to the relationship. She is, of course, not. But something is giving her that feeling or impression, even if it's just paranoia, so I've got to address that with her at another time to see what she is so worried over.

I agree! I don't know your gf, but I do know that feeling inadequate in the relationship is very common for GGs. Just for now, remove other priorities .. children, work, families, friends, etc, and just look at how partners prioritize one another. Your gf has only you, but your attention is divided between her and Kathryn. You may not look at it that way since you know that Kathryn is a part of you. But, not being transgendered it is difficult for a GG to understand this, especially if she has not been with her partner for very long (I'm talking years of being married). And if the two of you are not married and do not even live together, your gf may not feel secure in the relationship.

You've also provided the best solution: :)


I can't convince her of something I don't believe, though, which is to say that if I don't find her to be the greatest thing in the world (though in a lot of ways, she really is the best thing that ever happened to me, I just find that too trite to say directly), how can I convince her of that?

By telling her or showing her!! She needs to know it and feel it, especially if she feels your attention is divided! This is likely what she meant when she said you are both the woman and the man in the relationship .... that you do not need her as a woman because you have Kathryn. I know it is hard to keep telling her and I do understand that to you it seems trite and repetitive, and perhaps even unnecessary and silly (I've known many guys who feel the way you do). But, just try to let your feelings about her come to the surface, and give yourself permission to express them! :<3: If you do, I can almost guarantee she will stop feeling threatened by Kathryn and her support will become more consistent. She has already proven she loves you and she wants to support you.

Even at my age, I need to know that I am loved by my SO. If not necessarily with words, then by the little things he does, and most importantly through the love I see shining through his eyes. And I do my best to show him the way I feel too. :)

Please believe me when I say that we GGs have absolutely no clue during the first years about what it means to be TG. We haven't been raised with exposure to anything other than binary gender. So there is bound to be some misinterpretation, especially if communication between the two of you isn't all that great. :2c:

I hope you work things out with her!
:love:

[Sammy777]

I think that you pretty much answered your own question. You don't respect her and you are an asshole.... to quote you. Seems like two excellent reasons to give you the boot. maybe it's time to grow up and consider that it's not just about you. You are likely an asshole and disrespectful ... to quote you whether in drab or while dressed..ever consider that? Probably not, considering that you are an asshole.... to quote you.

Ouch Ouch Ouch!!!!!!! :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

[linnea]

As the song says, "breakin' up is hard to do." When you're a CD, it's extra hard to do.

[Satrana]

My advice is to listen to Reine, her suggestions are spot on as usual. There is no way for us to know if your GF is just fed up with the relationship and is looking for excuses to end it, or if this is a cry for help. You come across as a independent person and this is probably your biggest weakness in that relationships are built on sharing and trust. She is asking you to open up and to confide your emotions and feelings with her. That means changing your mindset and lowering your defenses and make yourself vulnerable. It is an intense and scary thing to do for independent people but that is most likely what she is after.

[Sammy777]

I think if you read between the lines of your posts you will find that you have already said everything that needs to be said.



So my gf and I almost broke up over pretty nasty and stupid fighting yesterday.
she was trying to tell me to pack up and leave.

primarily, I'm an asshole (totally true),
and I don't respect her I can't afford a counselor.

Wha-wha-what???
I knew what she meant, and I found it bothersome.

how did you deal with it?
somehow I'll satisfy myself in all ways possible that a relationship entails.

Obviously I choose to be with her for some ancillary purpose,
I feel it is inevitable that we will one day be permanently separated.

Well, it's not all my fault, naturally.
I am an innocent victim in front of everyone.

It's my own fault I don't find her to be the greatest thing in the world.
I find that trite, how can I convince her of that?

my natural contrarian nature, I've even cloud my own judgement.
I think I need to think that over.
No, I don't actually recall asking for your opinion.

I know what she brings to the table drama and the color black.
I've been focusing on the negative , and if there's a guilty party to that, it's me for sure.

I do not *usually* intend to be an asshole, and it's often accompanying a biting sarcasm and meant as true.
I've failed to understand the human condition, this is the main problem.
I do not understand emotional issues with people.
something to address when I have a counselor.

I am 26. I actually find myself thinking of "me" when there are other people present, so yes, I know the type you mean and are very much like that.

she hasn't lost it completely enough to break up.
she is a good person that I cannot respect completely.
There are numerous examples, be assured that they are not minor issues.

I think given time, she would go our separate ways.
She can't expect me to change something so ingrained.
It's difficult to explain, that much is for sure.
I'm thinking her negative reactions have to do with her concern that she is becoming "irrelevant" to the relationship.
She is, of course.
something is giving her that feeling or impression.
I've got to address that with her at another time.

[gretchen2]

I’ve been with my so for almost 6yr. in the beginning I was very femme in my thinking, so I think anyways. As time went buy I started to loose that thinking and became a male asshole and started tearing the relationship apart. She was miserable and so was I. so I had an epiphany. Girls like sensitivity caring soft thoughts, truth and devoted love, deep two sided conversations, and so much more. So to me it sounds like you need to integrate your anima and stop being an asshole. Maybe I am wrong and maybe I know only part of the story. Good luck.

[JoAnne Wheeler]

Well, I've been married for 38 years (las of ast week) and my spouse has

known for 37 of those years - every time she gets mad at me, even if it is not

related to crossdressing, I get that speech - no telling how many times I've

heard it - I just brush it off and go on being who I am

JoAnne Wheeler

[kathrynjanos]

Please believe me when I say that we GGs have absolutely no clue during the first years about what it means to be TG. We haven't been raised with exposure to anything other than binary gender. So there is bound to be some misinterpretation, especially if communication between the two of you isn't all that great. :2c:

I hope you work things out with her!
:love:

First off, thank you for answering my question, not providing some sort of secondary irrelevant opinion like some people before you.

My attention is not necessarily divided between her and Kathryn. In fact, I really only dress when the mood strikes. I still feel that I could live full time, I just choose not to for ease. Being female is a lot of work!!! That said, I am femme-ing my daily wardrobe, slightly.

I think I'm starting to understand what you mean. In many ways, I came to that conclusion on my own when I posted this, but as I stated, I tend to be own worst enemy when working these things out. I usually need a sounding board, even if it's just to get the thoughts out there.

Anyway, thank you, your opinions here are very well recieved, and I think I can put them to good use!


My advice is to listen to Reine, her suggestions are spot on as usual. There is no way for us to know if your GF is just fed up with the relationship and is looking for excuses to end it, or if this is a cry for help. You come across as a independent person and this is probably your biggest weakness in that relationships are built on sharing and trust. She is asking you to open up and to confide your emotions and feelings with her. That means changing your mindset and lowering your defenses and make yourself vulnerable. It is an intense and scary thing to do for independent people but that is most likely what she is after.

Yes, she is spot on, isn't she?

I am too independent, yet constantly half of a whole, if that makes sense?


I’ve been with my so for almost 6yr. in the beginning I was very femme in my thinking, so I think anyways. As time went buy I started to loose that thinking and became a male asshole and started tearing the relationship apart. She was miserable and so was I. so I had an epiphany. Girls like sensitivity caring soft thoughts, truth and devoted love, deep two sided conversations, and so much more. So to me it sounds like you need to integrate your anima and stop being an asshole. Maybe I am wrong and maybe I know only part of the story. Good luck.

Part of the story, yes. But I am also no good at the deepest thoughts bit or sensitivity. Maybe that's just from being bitten too many times for sticking my neck out.

[kathrynjanos]

Well, I've been married for 38 years (las of ast week) and my spouse has

known for 37 of those years - every time she gets mad at me, even if it is not

related to crossdressing, I get that speech - no telling how many times I've

heard it - I just brush it off and go on being who I am

JoAnne Wheeler

Well JoAnne, you and I don't see eye to eye very often, but this is definitely one of those cases. My generic response to any kind of rejection of my CDing is "too damned bad." It may not be that crudely stated, unless it is really necessary to be so forceful, mind you, but I am very adamant that I will not change something fundamental about me for anyone. I can bend, but not by some sort of emotional blackmailing.