What is the difference between the way a Crossdresser dresses one being ansgendered

[Beth-Lock]

What is the difference between the way a crossdresser dresses and one being transgendered in the sense transsexual or transitioned?


A crossdresser tries not to be recognized, and so does not care too much for the long term impression that her clothes give about her character.

A transsexual/transitioned person goes out in the same identity, with people recognizing her from day to day and judging her character and intelligence, not to mention taste, by what she wears.

What this actually means: If you see a sixty year old in a pink minidress, long blond wig and high white gogo boots, chances are if it is not at a costume party, she is not a TS/transitioned girl.

Just thought you might enjoy this recent insight of mine. Does any one else see this, or if not, disagree? I would like to get more insight like anyone. There may be exceptions I have not thought of.

[Karren H]

I totally disagree with statement one!!!! I crossdress and I don't really care if I get recognised and I DO care how I look and what it says about my style and character!!! Where did you get an idea like that?

[Persephone]

[B]A crossdresser tries not to be recognized, and so does not care too much for the long term impression that her clothes give about her character.

I don't agree! As an "out-and-about" crossdresser, my goal is to "pass," to "blend in" with the other women, wherever I may be. I wear gym clothes to the gym and evening dress for appropriate occassions.

I consider myself to be a crossdresser and yet, since I have friends who know me as a woman, I care a great deal about my long-term impression.

I also am involved in activities where I see the same people, friends or otherwise, over and over again. So, again, I am careful about my long-term impression.

And my ego demands that I dress appropriately for different situations. Women most often dress to obtain the approval of other women, and I feel no different.

So I think you have a situation much like the two animated snails in Saul Bass' "Why Man Creates":

A single, static shot of two snails talking --

Snail 1: “Have you ever thought that radical ideas threaten institutions, then become institutions and in turn reject radical ideas which threaten institutions?”

Snail 2: “No.”

Snail 1: “Gee, for a minute there I thought I had something.”

[Byanca]

I dont know what I am. But I hate switching identy. And I always find it strange that people judge by what I am wearing, and not who I am. So if what you say is true, I guess I am transexual. I try to look pretty every day, usually by a skirt or a dress. I thought, and done so for a long time that I was CD. I've never used a wig either, except just tried it on to see. But that didnt look like me. People seem so different so It's probably CD's that are like this to.

[Natalia]

[QUOTE=Beth-Lock;1664435]What is the difference between the way a crossdresser dresses and one being transgendered in the sense transsexual or transitioned?


A crossdresser tries not to be recognized, and so does not care too much for the long term impression that her clothes give about her character.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

HUH???

What the %$#**? Character?

Wow. So you think that crossdressers are somehow automatically sleezy or instantly lose all self respect?

I'm having trouble even typing this- you cannot be serious!:Angry3:

[Carly D.]

I think what you mean to say is cross dressers don't feel like the world ends tomorrow if they don't pass today.. transexuals might feel the earth shift if they can't be seen as a woman 24/7... what the hell does that mean?? did I just write that garbage??

[Kate Simmons]

I guess it depends on whether or not getting dressed is exciting for a person or just clothes. Don't forget for a woman, wearing women's clothing is no big deal.:)

[Beth-Lock]

What I did not take into account is that there is a continuum of people and situations. Whether you can see a kernel of truth in it, even poorly stated as it is, is something else. But there must be something to the insight. Could anyone restate it in a more subtle, better way?

[marla01]

I think you need to first define your terms before you try to place characteristics on each of the terms. What is a crossdresser? What is a transsexual/transitioned person (I see these as two distinctly different groups)? Are these exclusionary terms (for example, is a transitioned person not a crossdresser, if so why do you say so?). Are you thinking these labels are inclusive of most transgendered individuals or are you speaking of two small sub-categories in a huge transgendered spectrum?

There are way too many possible definitions here for the labels, and I don't think you can make any conclusions about those labels without first defining who you are speaking of.

But even given all of this, and making generalizations, I don't think your characteristics reflect reality in any meaningful way.

Marla

[Nicki B]

The only way to tell the difference between a CD and a TS is by looking inside their head... And even then, you can easily be wrong.


And, by a widely accepted definition, they're BOTH TG.

[Sandra Dunn]

Crosdressers are in the Trangender spectrum. The big thing I see is the person wearing the clothes a man in a dress or the person wearing the dress in the wrong body? Yes, what each wears says a lot about them as a person. How they wear the clothes and carry themselves says a lot too. Since we are all in the same boat, the TG boat, I'm not to worried about the titles. I use TG for all of us. We want to be accepted for who we are and be allowed to express ourselves as we need too.

HUGS Sandra

[Byanca]

Don't forget for a woman, wearing women's clothing is no big deal.:)
Yes, a woman thinks she is a woman no matter what. But I do think it is a big deal sometimes. I got the impression that it is similar emotion and feeling and insecurity for them as it is for me, when I try heels in public. Like they are also very insecure how people will judge them, so obviously they like it to.

A mtf transsexual is still a a woman even if she at first impression looks like a man.

A CD, I would think is a man when they dress as male, and woman when dress as female. Just to simplify. Or maybe androgyn, with no real gender identify(they have basically rendered it irrational, and find both modes just as natural). <-just some quick thoughts of the top of my head :doh:

For me, I think I am slightly transsexual because of how I think, how I react, how I feel. Basically, I think something went wrong in mommys tummy. I think I am for sure exposed to to much estrogen. I'm going to take tests now to figure it out.

Like when you bake a cake, sometimes you dont look well enough on the ingredients, so you take the wrong box and mix into it, or to much or to little.

I'm not sure if CD's think like this. I have the feeling that CD is more external, and TS is more internal. Maybe that is a difference.

[TJ Tresa]

I'm sorry but I disagree, I dress to pass and be accepted by those few who know. I would never want to think of myself or another woman as cheap therefore I could not dress in away that would bring disgrace on them. As I am 50 I could never wear a short mini skirt or dress in public and pull it off. I know this, so I would wear something that would be more approbriate for my age and still look stylish or chic. Sorry.

[Nicki B]

I'm not sure if CD's think like this. I have the feeling that CD is more external, and TS is more internal. Maybe that is a difference.

This whole concept that there's a clearly visible difference is so divisive - it's like the assumption that only two genders are possible? Look around the membership, here - plainly neither presumptions are true?

And your comment above is just so plainly not true.. :sad:

Many of us suffer from gender dysphoria - just some suffer it more strongly than others?

[Byanca]

^Agreed-thats why I dont put label on myself. Or I dont think I can, it will be wrong no matter what. But if people do want to. That is okay to for me. I see a thread like this mostly as humourus, because it can never reflect IRL anyway. And with playing with consepts, one might stumble upen something that is usable.

Anyway, it is human nature to label. And with a label ordinary people feel more secure. Most people need stability and be able to understand. Being undefined I have found out does not work for most people. It make their heads go in circles. And that is no good, it is best if it goes sequential-in a straight line.

[tamarav]

You seem to be one of those people that spend way too much time trying to figure out what the rest of the world is doing and why, and don't take the time to do what you like to do. Of course, I am just a simple CD, TV, TS, TG or whatever..

[Lisa Golightly]

The only way to tell the difference between a CD and a TS is by looking inside their head... And even then, you can easily be wrong.

Well we are used to hiding our feelings... and hoping it will all go away... :)

[Jenny J]

If I can add my $.02; the few times I’ve gone out en femme I have cared how I’ve looked and what kind of lasting impression I leave. Though I’ve worn a mini skirt for some fun photos, at 59 I know enough to realize that I would never be able to pull it off in public. So on most of my outings I’ve tried to blend in even to the extent of dressing down and being somewhat bland in my clothing, capris, a button down blouse, sandals and a simple purse. I do want to be recognized but not with a giant sign saying "CD Walking Here", but just as another woman shopping at the mall.

That’s the impression I want to leave.

Jen

:rose2:

[marla01]

I would suggest understanding others in the transgender spectrum can give more understanding for one's own self and possible ways one can take their life.

But the danger comes in when some individuals would paint specific characteristics on others that they claim do not exist in themselves, especially when those characteristics tend to be trivializing.

Then the discussion moves from gaining understanding to trying to validate one's own life path by trivializing other life paths.

And that's what I'm reading at least as a subtext in a number of these post. There seems to be a very bad assumption that for m2f's that woman = transsexual. This is trivializing to many non-transsexuals and even more importantly, I have found that in the real world this is flat out wrong!

The term man in a dress, which is a degrading term for many, has been used in this topic and I've seen it used else where. While I think all of us have seen this trait to a minor or major degree in others, and perhaps all of us at one time or another have exhibited this characteristic, I certainly do not relate that term to 'crossdresser'. Yes, I have seen many men in dresses that are crossdressers, but guess what, I have seen many transsexuals, including post-op transsexuals who are still men in dresses. In contrast, I have known many crossdressers that are utterly women, and I have known many transsexuals who utterly women. And I have known many many more crossdressers and transsexuals who are somewhere in between men in dresses and women.

The point is that I have found very little correlation between the gender path a person takes, be it crossdresser, transsexual and some other label, and the validity of their gender person.

Marla

[TGMarla]

I do my best to actually look like a woman. I really don't have much of an appetite for "Look, there goes a crossdresser!", so I try my hardest to look to others like I am a real woman. I would not be caught dead in a blonde wig, pink mini-dress, and white go-go boots. (Wait, yes I would...:D). Okay, maybe at a fetish ball.....My point is, I'm not just some crossdresser. I have a significant part of me that is transgendered and causes a desire to actually be a woman. So when I dress, I do my best to be a woman. I'm trying to blend in, but do so in a rather well-dressed fashion. I get the point you are trying to make, but broad generalities don't always work here.

[Kimberly Marie Kelly]

She said one of the big differences between a crossdresser and Transsexual is this, a crossdresser will usually dress provocatively to be noticed whereas a TS will dress to be a women and to blend in with age appropriate styles. As an example, a 52 year does not go out wearing a micro-mini and thigh high boots. Just a thought. :battingeyelashes:

[TSchapes]

What is the difference between the way a crossdresser dresses and one being transgendered in the sense transsexual or transitioned?


I don't think you can draw broad conclusions on why someone wears clothes a particular way by just whether a person is CD or TG/TS. The way a person dresses says more about the person than whether they are CD/TG/TS.


A crossdresser tries not to be recognized, and so does not care too much for the long term impression that her clothes give about her character.

If 'A' then 'B' does not follow here. Nor does the original supposition that a crossdresser always tries not to be recognized [as a crossdresser, I assume]. I've seen crossdressers in public where by their own clothing says, "I'm a crossdresser, and I don't care what you think about it!". For that matter, I've known some TG/TS that feel the same way. It is individual as to whether someone wishes to be recognized for who they are. As for your conclusion, that as a CD, I don't care about the long term impression I portray, au contraire. I care each time I go out that I look the best that I can.


A transsexual/transitioned person goes out in the same identity, with people recognizing her from day to day and judging her character and intelligence, not to mention taste, by what she wears.

This happens to everybody everyday male/female, if not, shows like "What Not to Wear" would not exist. People will judge you by how you look, period.


What this actually means: If you see a sixty year old in a pink minidress, long blond wig and high white gogo boots, chances are if it is not at a costume party, she is not a TS/transitioned girl.

Again, you cannot draw this conclusion. It would depend on the person. Ask yourself if a 60 year old GG wore the same thing, under the same circumstances, what would she be saying? Look at me, I'm a crossdresser? Don't confuse the way someone presents themselves as to who and what they are.

When the LGBT community says that we are rainbow, they don't mean like the stylized 4 or 5 color ones you see. They are talking about the real thing with all the variations in between. Clothing does tell you something about a person, but it is just the first thing. This is why it is best to get to know someone before you draw conclusions by what they look like.

Having said all that, may I also say that regardless of who you are male, female, transgendered or not. Wouldn't you like people to understand you better by the way you dress? That is, put some thought into what you are trying to say to others with your clothes? Maybe the 60 year old transsexual you talked about wearing the gogo boots and blond wig is saying, "look at me, I'm reliving my youth and I love it!" :love:

Love, Tracy

[Carole Cross]

Well we are used to hiding our feelings... and hoping it will all go away...

:iagree:
I know exactly what you mean, Lisa :hugs:

[Byanca]

I think I dress casually, but in a girly way. Haha, that probably does not help this discussion.

Here is one of me just now, my hair is as usually a mess. Obviously this picture is CD, but I think it is impossible to tell if it is TS as well.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/irrs/tranny/IMG_7734-1.jpg
btw-I made that skirt myself from a woolen blanket with a needle and thread while bored in a trip. So it is made for meg.

[Rachel Morley]

A crossdresser tries not to be recognized, and so does not care too much for the long term impression that her clothes give about her character.

... does not care too much for the impression her clothes give about her character?? ... err no! ... I'm a crossdresser and that ain't me. I'd have to say that I focus the most on what clothes I'm wearing and definitely what they might be saying about me. Your points are interesting, but they are a little bit of a "sweeping statement". Just like everyone else in the world CDers come in many variations and it's dangerous to say all CDers are like this or like that etc. :2c:

[Rachel Newark]

A TS comes through the door in her high-heels, kicks them off and sighs with relief.

A TV probably wears them to bed

:-))

Rachel Newark

[AmandaM]

I think you meant to say what is the difference between a fetishistic TV and a TS.

[Byanca]

now this is becoming complicated. I wasn't aware that TV was similar to CD. What is the equivalent word for TS?

[Sarah...]

now this is becoming complicated. I wasn't aware that TV was similar to CD. What is the equivalent word for TS?

Hang on, hang on!!!!

It's not complicated. I'm me and you are you. We're not the same. Validation and explanation through labelling will ALWAYS fail due to a thing called the human condition. There is so much difference in everyone that a label is not even as good as a broad brush stroke.

For example, you might say that I'm TS. I might say to others that I'm TS. But that's only an introduction, a scene setter, because I'm not the same kind of TS as the next TS in line, or the one after that :) Or even the same as the next human being.

In fact any marketer with the right, easily accessible information will conclude from my spending habits that I'm a woman. Which is great. :heehee: Except anyone looking at my day to day presentation to my customers would assume I'm a man. My family assume I'm TS. My friends assume I'm a sportsman. My schoolmates thought I was gay. People I pass in the street think I'm a transvestite, or maybe a crossdresser. My son's teachers think I'm a father (well, fair enough, I am, lol!!!).

So without talking to me, people think I'm:

Gay
Male
Female
TS
CD
TV
Father
Sportsman

So that's ridiculous! Is it not? Enough with the labels! Enough with the generalisation! Enough with the analysis!

Sarah...

[Nicki B]

She said one of the big differences between a crossdresser and Transsexual is this, a crossdresser will usually dress provocatively to be noticed whereas a TS will dress to be a women and to blend in with age appropriate styles.

She obviously has a wealth of experience, then... :rolleyes:

IMHO Kimberly, she's talking out of her bottom.


I would suggest understanding others in the transgender spectrum can give more understanding for one's own self and possible ways one can take their life.

We can only hope no one takes their life - but yes, some do.. :sad:


But the danger comes in when some individuals would paint specific characteristics on others that they claim do not exist in themselves, especially when those characteristics tend to be trivializing.

Then the discussion moves from gaining understanding to trying to validate one's own life path by trivializing other life paths.

And that's what I'm reading at least as a subtext in a number of these post. There seems to be a very bad assumption that for m2f's that woman = transsexual. This is trivializing to many non-transsexuals and even more importantly, I have found that in the real world this is flat out wrong!

The term man in a dress, which is a degrading term for many, has been used in this topic and I've seen it used else where. While I think all of us have seen this trait to a minor or major degree in others, and perhaps all of us at one time or another have exhibited this characteristic, I certainly do not relate that term to 'crossdresser'. Yes, I have seen many men in dresses that are crossdressers, but guess what, I have seen many transsexuals, including post-op transsexuals who are still men in dresses. In contrast, I have known many crossdressers that are utterly women, and I have known many transsexuals who utterly women. And I have known many many more crossdressers and transsexuals who are somewhere in between men in dresses and women.

The point is that I have found very little correlation between the gender path a person takes, be it crossdresser, transsexual and some other label, and the validity of their gender person.

Marla

Marla... :worship:

[kimberly ann487]

I hope we're not sterotyping here, I hate putting labels on someone or some group. Although we may find that we are very much the same we are also very different. Some of us want to blend in, some want to standout. Are GG's any different ? That's my :2c:.
:drink::love:KIM

[marla01]

We can only hope no one takes their life - but yes, some do.. :sad:


I HOPE no one interpreted my words to mean that :-)

Marla

[Carly D.]

Transvestite is someone who wants to be a woman more than be a man.. whereas a cross dresser wants to wear womens clothing but remain being a male because in my case if I were to transition I would likely cross dress (wear male clothing).. HOW SICK!!!

[valenstein]

Hang on, hang on!!!!

It's not complicated. I'm me and you are you. We're not the same. Validation and explanation through labelling will ALWAYS fail due to a thing called the human condition. There is so much difference in everyone that a label is not even as good as a broad brush stroke.

For example, you might say that I'm TS. I might say to others that I'm TS. But that's only an introduction, a scene setter, because I'm not the same kind of TS as the next TS in line, or the one after that :) Or even the same as the next human being.

In fact any marketer with the right, easily accessible information will conclude from my spending habits that I'm a woman. Which is great. :heehee: Except anyone looking at my day to day presentation to my customers would assume I'm a man. My family assume I'm TS. My friends assume I'm a sportsman. My schoolmates thought I was gay. People I pass in the street think I'm a transvestite, or maybe a crossdresser. My son's teachers think I'm a father (well, fair enough, I am, lol!!!).

So without talking to me, people think I'm:

Gay
Male
Female
TS
CD
TV
Father
Sportsman

So that's ridiculous! Is it not? Enough with the labels! Enough with the generalisation! Enough with the analysis!

Sarah...

Yes, what she said. I've known TS women that wear things far more "fetishistic" than I've ever worn and GGs who wear male clothing simply because they wish. How you dress or why you dress the way you do doesn't make a statement about the whole.

[JillHill]

Transvestism and Crossdresser is basically are words that in their simple form have the same meaning, people who dress in the clothing of the opposite sex. That is a cultural and societal control and classification.

We then start reading between the lines and try to make something out of it that is not related. The reason for wanting to be a transvestite comes in many flavors; emotions, expierence in life, fetish, self image, etc, but we are still transvestites/crossdressers.

Sometimes I dress because I feel ****y, sometimes I am looking for some softness in life, sometimes I want to be elegant and sometimes just the old broad that I am at 61. But I am still a transvite/crossdresser.

Sometimes I want to go out with just a skirt and blouse without make-up or a wig or breast forms. And I do. Some people would say that I was not presenting properly when I do that, but that is who I am.

IMHO, When we try to make anything more out of it that that we are just trying to justify our behavior so that we can appear different than others.
We are all the same we just do it for our own reasons.

Blessing and Peace, Jill

[JoAnne Wheeler]

I do not know where you are coming from - I agree with Karren Hutton

JoAnne Wheeler

[Fab Karen]

You seem to be one of those people that spend way too much time trying to figure out what the rest of the world is doing and why, and don't take the time to do what you like to do. Of course, I am just a simple CD, TV, TS, TG or whatever..
You said it, girl.:thumbsup:

[Beth-Lock]

About intellectualizing everything. Is it really such a bad thing? I guess I just believe the unexamined life is not worth living, in the words of the famous philosopher, (Aristotle).
Putting a person in a category by the way they are socialized, and I think an occasional cross-dresser is socialized as to feedback on what they wear, in a different way, in contrast to a transitioned T-girl, is what i was getting at, but is a rather trouble frought jumping to conclusions.
The sociologists, Glasser and Reisman, tried a similar rash jumping from socialization mode to categorization in 1950 in the famous book, "The Lonely Crowd,"' and lived to regret it. I guess I fell into the same trap and am now regretting it. It seems to be a fallacy of overgeneralization.

(But my thread got a lot of responses, and started some people thinking. Is that bad?)

[tamarav]

It seems that some people just have too much free time to keep coming up with these inane statements and then sit and spur on the remarks.

[Karen564]

Personally, I think Beth is more referring to a TV person more so than a CD person..

And I'm not surprised that the regular CD'ers that posted here find Beth's thread very disturbing, because I know every one of them take great pride in how they dress and present themselves, and they all do it extremely well with lots of class..

But just remember girls, before you nail Beth to the cross, there are a ton of CD members here that never show themselves or post on how they dress, so who knows..I dont, do you??

And I'm not going to point any fingers, but I've heard more than once about many girls on this site think they can get away wearing 5"+ heels in public & not be noticed... just more food for thought.. :straightface:

[MaryAnn40c]

I totally disagree with statement one!!!! I crossdress and I don't really care if I get recognised and I DO care how I look and what it says about my style and character!!! Where did you get an idea like that?

I have to agree with Karren,the older I get or if I have a problem with my weight I dress to look good( my way). But not like a young women in a mini with a body to kill for. i dress for my age!

[christinek]

I am transgendered, however I value my marriage and family to much to destroy that so I pretend to be a cross dresser. :daydreaming:

I have told my wife I would gladly trade places with her at a moments notice if there were such a potion.

[Fran Moore]

One thing is for sure....ya start throwing labels around and someone is sure to get hit, and it can leave a mark! Catagorizing groups is impossible as there are always exceptions as long as it is INDIVIDUALS that make up the "group". IMHO many people who choose to present in the female gender are offended at the term "transvestite". I personally prefer the term "transgendered" to be all inclusive of folks who alternate from social standards of their "biological" makeup, keeping in mind that sex and gender are two very different things.

Peace-

[Melora]

"

What is the difference between the way a crossdresser dresses and one being transgendered in the sense transsexual or transitioned?


A crossdresser tries not to be recognized, and so does not care too much for the long term impression that her clothes give about her character.

"A transsexual/transitioned person goes out in the same identity, with people recognizing her from day to day and judging her character and intelligence, not to mention taste, by what she wears.

What this actually means: If you see a sixty year old in a pink minidress, long blond wig and high white gogo boots, chances are if it is not at a costume party, she is not a TS/transitioned girl.

Just thought you might enjoy this recent insight of mine. Does any one else see this, or if not, disagree? I would like to get more insight like anyone. There may be exceptions I have not thought of. "


I could not agree LESS..
transgenders are a varied lot..
Cross Dressers, Transvestites, & Transexuals, just try to blend in and live life, whether as a life choice or fetish..
While..
Drag queens and ******** TRY to make it Obvious to Every one, though One group is for Porn and Lifestyle and the other is for Gasps and Entertainment = $$$ for both mostly..
Melora

[sometimes_miss]

I read this thread earlier, and then went on to read some others. And what I came up with is this:
We're doing all of us a disservice by trying to fit into, or define exactly what we are to other people. There are so many variables; who is attracted to what and when, how often do we dress up, do we take on a temporary change in gender personality when we dress or do we always feel female, do we feel female only when dressed, does it generally cause sexual excitement or not, it goes on and on. I like to call myself a crossdresser, yet there are TS influences as well, but not complete enough to make me a TS. I can only suggest we try to put it all on our profiles, as briefly as possible, and put a link to it in our signature at the end of our posts. I'm going to do it now.
edit: Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but there doesn't seem much room to write about ourselves in our profile.

[Kelsy]

How could I try to explain what others do or feel when I cannot sufficiently explain myself! I Cd but I have discovered that i am TS. I dress only to try to relieve my discomfort of being male! When I dress I try to be me! We are a unique individuals!

Kelsy

[Beth-Lock]

I think a few therapists, especially those dogmatic ones of the old school should read this thread. It certainly proves that categorization and drawing crucial conclusions from it, are likely to be hazardous.
If our conditions and feelings are all over the map like this, does any diagnosis based on categorization make any sense at all?