Guilty as Charged!

[charlie]

Hello All!
As I said before in previous threads, I'm a happily married CD. My wife knows, but goes strongly by "do not ask and certainly do not tell". That said, I love to dress and go out and about when I'm away on business. I love to dress and be the best looking woman that I can be. My clothes style has evolved from the super short mini skirts to above the knee skirtsuits, gowns and dresses. Although I consider myself straight (with a few bends) I went out on a date with a man that I met and have known awhile from a local bar. He knows that I am not into men per se, but we get along and he wanted to take me out to dinner as his "female date". The guilty part is that I went. He picked me up at my house, opened all my doors, we walked arm in arm, held hands,he even helped me from his high truck (a bit difficult in 5" heels I must admit ladies). He was the perfect gentleman! For those of you that are interested, I wore a new Jones of New York silk dress (black), black bra, black corset, black panties and black suspender nylons (garter built in the nylons) , white multi stranded pearls, and black 5" slingbacks. I thought I looked quite good, he thought I was beautiful and passable...and he treated me like a lady all night. We went to a great Italian dinner place, cocktails at a nice nightclub afterwords and he then took me back to my house where we had some brandy. I did kiss him goodnight and he kissed me back and did rub my ass and a bit of hugging. It was not unpleasant. I loved feeling like a real woman for a night! I guess I'm just an "attention junkie" when I'm all dressed up! The guilty part is that although nothing really happened, I have cheated on my wife..albeit as a woman.

[jruiz]

Hello All!
As I said before in previous threads, I'm a happily married CD. My wife knows, but goes strongly by "do not ask and certainly do not tell". That said, I love to dress and go out and about when I'm away on business. I love to dress and be the best looking woman that I can be. My clothes style has evolved from the super short mini skirts to above the knee skirtsuits, gowns and dresses. Although I consider myself straight (with a few bends) I went out on a date with a man that I met and have known awhile from a local bar. He knows that I am not into men per se, but we get along and he wanted to take me out to dinner as his "female date". The guilty part is that I went. He picked me up at my house, opened all my doors, we walked arm in arm, held hands,he even helped me from his high truck (a bit difficult in 5" heels I must admit ladies). He was the perfect gentleman! For those of you that are interested, I wore a new Jones of New York silk dress (black), black bra, black corset, black panties and black suspender nylons (garter built in the nylons) , white multi stranded pearls, and black 5" slingbacks. I thought I looked quite good, he thought I was beautiful and passable...and he treated me like a lady all night. We went to a great Italian dinner place, cocktails at a nice nightclub afterwords and he then took me back to my house where we had some brandy. I did kiss him goodnight and he kissed me back and did rub my ass and a bit of hugging. It was not unpleasant. I loved feeling like a real woman for a night! I guess I'm just an "attention junkie" when I'm all dressed up! The guilty part is that although nothing really happened, I have cheated on my wife..albeit as a woman.

What would you think if your wife goes on a date with another guy who kisses her goodnight, hugs her and rubs her ass? Would you be OK as long as you "don't ask don't tell"?

You are "happily" married and playing with fire. Don't complain when you get burned :straightface:

You met a guy in a bar. I hope his expectations are well handled and he doesn't get obsessed in the future. Did he pick you up at you home? Are you risking your home and your family safety letting strangers pick you up at you actual home address? :brolleyes:

[beenherelongtime]

i agree that you probably cheated. and would you consider your wife cheating if she kissed another woman in the same context. but you need to explain (with some bending) are you feeling some same gender feelings. if so, this could lead to danger, local bar (gay bar?), known for some time(how) intimate. you really must examine your feelings.

[sissystephanie]

You say you are "happily married" and you do things like that? What kind of respect are you showing your wife? As others have asked, what would you do if the tables were turned?

I was happily married for over 49 years to a very loving and supportive wife. Only reason I am not still married is that cancer took her 4 years ago. When I first told her about being a CD, before we were married, she said that she could and would accept that if I always remembered that I was HER MAN!! Although I really love to dress (I am right now!), never did it occur to me to go on a date with another man! I went out with my wife, as her girlfriend, many times. We had a lot of fun doing that.

But going out with another man is cheating on your wife, no matter how you slice that cake!! If I were you, I would think long and hard before pulling a stunt like that again! That is, if you really value your marriage!

[Lorileah]

Ouch Charlie. You are getting it with both barrels here. You know how you feel and I suspect you know how your wife would feel.

From another attention "Junkie" ( I use a stronger word for me )

That aside, it sounds like you had a fairytale evening. Will it change you forever? Well it will make you think differently. But I suspect you will survive and with a strong marriage so will the two of you. Should you feel guilty? Yes, that is what people do. But, I am sure there are other secrets that you and your wife have from each other and you function well that way. Maybe instead of happily married you are "Comfortably" married.

I am glad you had a good time though.

[donnaking]

Ouch Charlie. You are getting it with both barrels here. You know how you feel and I suspect you know how your wife would feel.

He deserves to get it from both barrels and then some. This kind of stuff is BS in my book...pure lowlife BS.

[Karren H]

Well I wouldn't be hapily married for long if I did that and my wife found out and I wouldn't even be happy with myself... Cheating is cheating no mater how your dressed..

[trisha59]

Hello All!
The guilty part is that although nothing really happened, I have cheated on my wife..albeit as a woman.

Yes You Did!

[MsJanessa]

Ouch Charlie. You are getting it with both barrels here. You know how you feel and I suspect you know how your wife would feel.

From another attention "Junkie" ( I use a stronger word for me )

That aside, it sounds like you had a fairytale evening. Will it change you forever? Well it will make you think differently. But I suspect you will survive and with a strong marriage so will the two of you. Should you feel guilty? Yes, that is what people do. But, I am sure there are other secrets that you and your wife have from each other and you function well that way. Maybe instead of happily married you are "Comfortably" married.

I am glad you had a good time though.

I'm glad you had a good time too Charlie---but the time now might be to ask yourself what direction you want to move in---you obviously enjoyed the evening to the point of telling all about it here and as I'm sure you can see there are plenty of people on this site to judge you--I agree that maybe you are comfortably married rather then happily and if you and your spouse are content to lead seperate lives, all the more power to you---if you think what you are doing would be a problem for her(and I can't tell from your post) and also for you now might be the time to decide the future of your marraige.

[Lorileah]

He deserves to get it from both barrels and then some. This kind of stuff is BS in my book...pure lowlife BS.

Somewhere in the FAQ's that are so often invoked here we are not supposed to "dis" anyone but is seems that some people are more fair game than others. Bringing one's personal morality to this forum seems to be hypocritical. So Charlie, I will support you in the best way I can

[Lorileah]

Let's not start throwing proverbs and verses out here. You won't win. The fact here is where do we as crossdressers get to throw the first stone? (see you won't win). Was the line crossed when Charlie dressed when mama was out? Was it crossed when the date was set? Do you just object to the kiss? We cannot place our own morality on others here. Some couples are perfectly happy with an open arrangement.

Charlie needs care and support, not condemnation. What Charlie decides to tell her wife (and Charlie is a her as long as she is on this forum) is up to her. I see the OP as her way of venting some. I may not agree with what Charlie did. But I will not make her feel any lower than what she makes herself feel. She knows what she did, she is having angst for what she did. She needs constructive help here not condemnation. Charlie is human and humans do things that they may regret. But a life without exploration is a life wasted. Maybe Charlie will now find out who she truly is and I wish her luck in her journey.

[JulieC]

This is the kind of thing that would yield a press clipping like this; "Wife assaults cheating transvestite husband"

Does being a crossdresser have much to do with the fact that the OP cheated on his wife? No, but it certainly gives crossdressing a black eye. No crossdressers are compelled to uphold some code of ethics, but it does sadden me to see this sort of thing happen.

There's a book at there called "Alice in Genderland". I haven't read it, but from what I understand the author is married, and has his wife's permission to go out crossdressed and has his wife's permission to have a boyfriend. To that I say more power to them if it works for them.

In this case, there's no grounds to do so. The wife in this case is being completely disrespected and is being treated miserably. If there are young kids at home, well....*sigh*

[donnaking]

Charlie needs care and support, not condemnation.
I disagree 100%.

[JulieC]

Some couples are perfectly happy with an open arrangement.

Yes, some couples are. That's not the case here, so I see no reason to treat this from that viewpoint. This was cheating, pure and simple. No equivocation.

If Charlie had gone out on this date with the support and approval of her wife, I would be gloriously happy for Charlie. It sounds like it was a lot of fun! But, that's not the case here.



Charlie needs care and support, not condemnation.

Sometimes the best advice is the advice telling you how badly you screwed up. Care and support does not automatically equal approval.



She needs constructive help here not condemnation. Charlie is human and humans do things that they may regret. But a life without exploration is a life wasted. Maybe Charlie will now find out who she truly is

Exploring life is not a lofty goal when it involves trampling on others.



I wish her luck in her journey.

I wish her luck too.

[Mirani]

I try not to be judgemental BUT. . I am sad on two counts. The deception on your spouse (how would you like it if she behaved like that?) and your ease at sharing your deception with the world.

No wonder our partners fear what we "might" do ... :(

[carolinoakland]

Yep honey, as hard as it to accept, you cheated. Why is the big question you need to ask before you sit down and adress this with you wife. Carol

[Kate Simmons]

Ouch! This is why I keep talking about taking ownership of ourselves and responsibility for our own actions. We are, after all, the one who has to live with the results, good, bad or indifferent.

[boardpuppy]

Hi Charlie,
I was going to add my 2 cents but your getting shot and patched up pretty well in all the above.
Having been there (both SO and I) It brings nothing but pain and trouble but will say my marriage is stronger only because SO is stubborn, pig headed and fights dirty (terffic women she is). Concerning this incident, get your head out of the Pink Fog and off Cloud 9, screw it on straight and never say another word about it to anyone again, especially your SO.
Oh, and don't even consider a repeat. This coal raking is nothing compared to what is in store for you if....

Hugs,
Alice

[charlie]

Hello All!
Thanks for both barrels! I deserve all that and more! Yes, I know what I did was a violation of trust, yes I feel (looking back on the night) that I violated my own feelings of respect, and no, there will be no repeat performance. That said, I am balancing how I feel about life and my new self. I am pushing the envelope and what exists out there is still me relating to others. My wife I'm sure knows that I dress when I go out of town and knows that I go out and about. I'm sure that she trusts that I will be faithful however, as I suspect that she is. There lies the guilt. Because I felt guilty is why I shared this with all of you. Often I have read various people asking what it would be like to go off on a date and be treated like a woman. I guess one could say it is like taking drugs; great at first...then you think about it alter. What Boardpuppy (Alice) stated is how I intend to handle this. Cloud 9 and the Pink Fog have been blown away. I had a date thinking that the girl who had it was someone else, just because she wore different clothes and was gender bending. She wasn't. Just me.

[MissConstrued]

This is why it's better to be swingers. There's no cheating when having other playmates is mutually agreed upon.

[Mirani]

OK ...
Warm wishes for the future.
You have assuaged your conscience by your honesty and acceptance that it was wrong, wrong, wrong! and of course your decision to never repeat this ... congrats on your self awareness.
Sorry for being hard on you after your first post.

Now the hard bit for you ... forgive yourself and move on. You have learnt a salutory lesson.

All the best.

[sissystephanie]

This is why it's better to be swingers. There's no cheating when having other playmates is mutually agreed upon.

But not in a real marriage! Not if you have any respect for each other!!

[Kelli Michelle]

I am not going to shoot you. But,you have some issues here. Let's adress them logically.

I suspect the date occurred because you are feeling things that you want to explore. Exploration is fine, but once you cross the mariage vow (and intentions for that matter) threshold it should alert you to the fact that this (exploration, cding, whatever) is too significant to just let things continue on as is. I suspect your wife would not feel "happily married" if she knew about this. So, you need to either explain to the wife about your need to explore, and see how she is with it, or you need to stop that kind of exploration (if you can). You both can can figure it out, or make some other agreement.

If you are intent on further exploration and she is not agreeable to that, it's decision time. I don't know the rest of your history, but obviously there are many things to consider if applicable (your love for each other, children, family, etc).

I do think it is a good idea to put yourself in her shoes, and say to yourself, "would I be ok with it if she did (fill in the blank)...".

If your love for her isn't enough to stop your "dating" than I would say there is not enough commiitment there to warrant keeping the relationship going. That's just my :2c: worth.

I know the attraction to do the kind of exploration you have taken part in. But, seriously, this is truly a case of "you can't have your cake and eat it too..." If you were feeling guilty there was a reason.

I hope you can figure out the right thing to do for you.

[JoAnne Wheeler]

You went way to far - what would your "former spouse" say if she found out ?

JoAnne Wheeler

[sue ellan]

He deserves to get it from both barrels and then some. This kind of stuff is BS in my book...pure lowlife BS.

what would do if your wife went out and did the same thing? a person cant get much lower than what you are doing. it will be a miracel if you dont get caught.

sue ellan

life is like a roll of tp. the closer to the end the faster it goes.

[MsJanessa]

I disagree 100%.
well if you want to condemn there are plenty of people out there who will condemn you just for being a CD---something in Leviticus I think

[Nena]

You cheated on your wife, plain and simple. There is no debate about that. The question for you now is how will you proceed from here?

As a GG, I have to say that your behavior represents one of the biggest initial fears of a wife or girlfriend when her guy comes out to her as a CD. What were you thinking? You ask for understanding and empathy from your wife about your crossdressing, but are unwilling to give her the same about her fears and insecurities? Talk about double standards.

I agree that you need our support, but being a friend to someone is being willing to take the risk of telling them when you think that they are wrong or that their actions have been inappropriate. Although the experience obviously was exhilarating and joyful for you, your participation in it was innapropriate -- not because you went out on a date with a guy, but because you did it within the context of exploring your own limits while trying to still maintain a good thing at home. If I were your wife, I would have expected more from you.

With that said, I recommend that you seek professional help first to assist you to be honest with yourself about your feelings and desires and then to be honest with your wife.

Nena GG

[Tricia Lee]

You made a huge mistake. If you want to stay married don't even think about telling her. You have to live with the guilt now. If you can vow to yourself to never do it again, then don't ruin her life and your family by telling her.

[JulieC]

This is why it's better to be swingers. There's no cheating when having other playmates is mutually agreed upon.But not in a real marriage! Not if you have any respect for each other!!

Can we please remove swinging from this discussion?

I wouldn't ask people on a swinger's forum to discuss crossdressing as they would most likely be uninformed about it. Likewise, discussing swinging on this board is asking the uninformed to discuss it.

["Mary"]

I've often wondered what such a date (and more) would be like. I'm pretty sure I would have a blast, but haven't actually made any ofthose moves. maybe I would have if the situation presented it self. i hope not.

So, Charlie, now you know. Pretty fun, eh? But, we are mostly all with you in agreeing it was not a good thing to do. Try really hard not to place yourself in situations that might lead to another mistake. I'll pray for you.

[JaylaaGurl]

I have really struggled with this as well... I couldn't take it if my wife was with anyone else so I have to keep myself in check. I'm sure like most of us I'd love to be fawned over by someone, but I've made a commitment to her so I need to stay true to her.

[Veronica75]

Originally Posted by MissConstrued
This is why it's better to be swingers. There's no cheating when having other playmates is mutually agreed upon.

But not in a real marriage! Not if you have any respect for each other!!

With all due respect, who are you, and for that matter who am I, to decide what does and does not happen in a "real" marriage? Every couple has their limits, their level of trust, their level of freedom, and their own values. Before judging those who have swinging or open relationships or anything else along those lines, I think we should realize that the vast majority of "normal" people out there would probably say that crossdressing does not occur in a "real marriage" where the husband and wife "have any respect for each other." Just as we should together fight ignorance and prejudice against crossdressing, we should be careful not to fall into our own prejudices about aspects of other marriages that we might not agree with. Every husband and wife have their own boundaries, which are their own business and no one elses.

That said, in Charlie's case there was a clear breach of trust: She herself admitted that the date overstepped the accepted bounds of trust in her marriage, and I think that is the very definition of cheating. Even a hardcore swinger can cheat if the liaison is not within the (comparatively wide) boundaries that were accepted by the couple. It's all about crossing the line, wherever that line may be drawn.

She was wrong, and she clearly knows she made a mistake and feels guilty because of it. It's not my place to tell her what to do with her guilt, but she seems to be using it to constructively move forward, which if true is a good thing. I wish her luck.

[Desiree2bababe]

My wife knows for a fact that I've been intimate with men since marraige. In fact, she set one date up unbeknowst to me just to see if I would go all the way. I was honest up front and she just had to see for herself. I must say the escort she picked was quite the man if you know what I mean. She teases me to this day about him and others.......

[MissConstrued]

But not in a real marriage! Not if you have any respect for each other!!


Kindly notice that I used the phrase "mutually agreed upon."

I can't fault you for having the misconception that swingers just run around f*cking everything that moves. That's the stuff of fantasy in those little pr0n magazines without the pictures. So, that's the image that gets projected, but it's just not so.

What's a "real" marriage? You know how many loveless marriages there are? How many people cheat? Any idea? People cheat -- fact of life. And contrary to popular belief, the women cheat more than the men do.

Now, if both partners in a marriage like to have other lovers, and they are of such a disposition that they can handle it, and they are honest with each other about what they're doing -- and most importantly, the outside playmates meet the approval of the spouse -- how can that be cheating?

I've talked with enough people who have been cheated on to know that it's not the sleeping with someone else that's the core of the problem -- it's the dishonesty.

My point? There isn't just one "real" type of marriage. How do you feel, for example, about arranged marriages in some cultures? Are those "real?"

[JulieC]

My wife knows for a fact that I've been intimate with men since marraige. In fact, she set one date up unbeknowst to me just to see if I would go all the way. I was honest up front and she just had to see for herself. I must say the escort she picked was quite the man if you know what I mean. She teases me to this day about him and others.......

That's awesome Desiree!

[JulieC]

You must be a lawyer :) I knew there was loophole somewhere. All this time I was looking for stone tablets with a list of male and female articles of clothing.

I've been told I missed my calling as an attorney :)

I do think there's a difference. If you're wearing a woman's garments, aren't you taking her stuff and wearing it?

If you're wearing a skirt you bought and paid for, it's yours. Not a woman's.

Also, pants are men's attire. There's multiple religions that view wearing of pants as a sin for women.

Maybe my position is on the opposite end of the spectrum from pants being a sin for women, but I don't think Deut 22:5 is as cut and dried as some would like to believe.

[Leslie Mary S]

I was happily married to the same woman for 36 years. I did on occasion, while at home alone dress out but no make-up.
Sadly that wife died of cancer. I waited 3 years in morning. I then meet another woman, whom I married. Big mistake. It didn't last but about 16 months. One of the reasons it didn't last is wife #2 said that I was still in love with wife #1. (which I am) so when does a marriage end? When you no longer love each other. Never in all that time did I breach my voes, and I will tell you that since I was in the Military and traveled a lot around the world and that many opportunities raised it's head.
Twice during all those trips that I almost broke the arrow but I can say proudly I didn't.
I am a one woman man, even if she is no longer on this earth.
So I say dress up, dress out but go out with the one you truly love and who truly loves you.

[Lorileah]

(puts on flak vest)

No matter what Sammy Cahn said Love and marriage do not go together like a horse and carriage. I guess technically and legally the marriage ends at the death of the spouse. Spiritually and maybe in your case it goes on indefinitely. In the United States 50% of marriages end when one spouse becomes disposable. Love is another matter. Some loves never end. It is my opinion that many marriages never were based on love but more on convenience, peer pressure and, sorry guys, wanting to get some. Some love springs immediately, some needs time to grow, and often it withers away because we take it for granted. Something tells me that this will be a weeding and nurturing experience for Charlie.

That is why I was amazed at the venomous attacks here. Maybe all those were people in fairytale castles. Charlie never said she lost any love for her spouse and we don't know that Charlie's spouse would lose love for Charlie if this whole thing came out. Everyone assumed that the marriage was irretrievably lost over one indiscretion. Did the love end? I doubt it but that is only between Charlie and her SO.

As Micheal Martin Murphy said "If love never lasts forever, tell me what's forever for?"

[RachelB.]

The only ones who can judge this situation are Charlie, her SO and God. I wouldn't do this because I know how my SO would react.

So lets all congradgulate Charlie on a fun night and leaving the judgement to those who are entitled.

Rachel

[MsJanessa]

(puts on flak vest)

No matter what Sammy Cahn said Love and marriage do not go together like a horse and carriage. I guess technically and legally the marriage ends at the death of the spouse. Spiritually and maybe in your case it goes on indefinitely. In the United States 50% of marriages end when one spouse becomes disposable. Love is another matter. Some loves never end. It is my opinion that many marriages never were based on love but more on convenience, peer pressure and, sorry guys, wanting to get some. Some love springs immediately, some needs time to grow, and often it withers away because we take it for granted. Something tells me that this will be a weeding and nurturing experience for Charlie.

That is why I was amazed at the venomous attacks here. Maybe all those were people in fairytale castles. Charlie never said she lost any love for her spouse and we don't know that Charlie's spouse would lose love for Charlie if this whole thing came out. Everyone assumed that the marriage was irretrievably lost over one indiscretion. Did the love end? I doubt it but that is only between Charlie and her SO.

As Micheal Martin Murphy said "If love never lasts forever, tell me what's forever for?"

There is a dichotomy on this site between the fantasy that most of Us have and the reality when one of Us tries to make the dream come true---Have you Ladies noticed how many threads there seem to be about "Would you date a man etc" and then how many negative posts seem to occur when someone actually tells about that experience. Granted Charlie is married and maybe you personally wouldn't have done such a thing yourself but then she didn't invite you to go along on the date, did she? Ive been around long enough to know that life and marriage are far more complicated then most people think, particularly if you are a cross dresser and bi sexual and I refuse to criticise somebody else's choices regarding their personal life.

[trisha59]

Hello All!
The guilty part is that although nothing really happened, I have cheated on my wife..albeit as a woman.

This is what Charlie said. All I did was agree with her. I don't think that I was being judgemental.