Finding an accepting S.O.

[Sapphire]

Are the chances of success in finding a woman who is accepting just too remote? That said, are there those who have found the ideal S.O in another T.G.?

[erica12b]

some have ,
some cant
some have here ,
not me yet but im thinking of changing my middle name to "hope"

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

I've got an accepting wife. It took me more than a decade to come out her, but she's very accepting of my cding, and an active participant. She enjoys Gabrielle very much.

I honestly believe that there are a lot of women (or men, for that matter) who would be very interested in finding love and romance in a crossdresser. The problem is the social taboo. One generally can't just go asking questions like "So, what's you sign? Oh, and are you in to guys who dress like women?" It would be so much simpler if it could work that way.

Long before I married my wife - a short time after we started dating, in fact, there were signs that she would be accepting of my cding. Check the bottom link in my sig to get the whole story on that. The point is that I think one can find out or even test the water on the subject before a relationship gets to the point where it might become painful to end it (in search for another potential accepting SO).

Just like many cd's are afraid to mention their cding to a perspective love interest, I think many women are also a bit shy on the subject - women who are actually interested in crossdressing men. The social taboo isn't as strict with that end of things, but it is still taboo, unfortunately.

If I found myself on the dating scene again tomorrow (which I pray I do not ever), I don't know exactly how I'd do it, but I would put forth an effort to screen for acceptance before getting very far into the relationship at all. I know for a fact that they're out there. I also know that (like in my wife's case) they may be shy about sharing it.

It breaks my heart every time I read about a cd with an unaccepting SO. There are women out there who would love a crossdresser - for the love of heels and skirts, FIND THEM! Don't let them get stuck with a mono-gendered guy. Let the mono-gendered men end up with the SO's who would be unaccepting of a cd, and let the cd's end up with women (or men) who would enjoy it!

Yeah, yeah. Wonderful idea - easier said than done. I know.

They're out there though. I believe there are many more than one might think... just like there are many more cd's than one might think. :)

Btw - is that even a term: "mono-gendered"? lol You know what I meant. I'm not putting down non-cd's or anything. :)

[Natalia]

Marry your best friend.

Looks fade, real boobs sag, real hair turns gray (a slight advantage we all have over GG's:heehee:), but true affection and freindship are durable and lasting.

[AZGia]

I have an accepting live in girl friend that helps me, she allows me to be me and accepts me wether I am in cd mode or just the firefighter that is a machinist, welder, fabricator, mechanic, and custom car and bike builder on the side. And yes when I am not a firefighter I do the other things while dressed. When I want to go all out and look pretty she does help. There are people out there that accept a person for who they are, but just hard to find.


Gia

[JoAnne Wheeler]

Only fair, I'm afraid

JoAnne Wheeler

[PaulaSF]

Having found an accepting wife (albeit my second one :sad:

I do know its possible. First one seemed initially accepting, but it soon become clear that I was a "project," and she was gonna "fix me," but the spots aren't easily changed on this ole cat...

Of course, one has to understand the likelihood of being both fully accepting, as well as wanting to take it as far as the t-gal conceivable might, can cause dissension, over time... (as "changing the rules," part way thru a game is always a "tough sell"). But everyone does tend to change/evolve over time...

A key upfront factor seems to be how open-minded, and exposed to various sorts of diversity; as yes, whether we like it or not, we will at some point be pondered as gay, by most GGs, too.

Age, geography, and religion seem to be key determinents, so "go fishing" in big cities, perhaps? Easy for one in a blue state "tranny Nirvana" to say :devil:

One aspect that seems to have helped with my wife, is that she's a bit older than I am, and the typical, dating older guys bit, had her out mostly with those close to needing nursing care, and thus a younger, more fit & vibrant lad, was appealing :)

But the general thinking is younger folks are more open about LGBT issues & people (and frankly a bit more clued in).

Don't give up hope, but don't over stress that as the only important compatbility "test." Being something akin to best friends/soul mates a tougher nut to crack than some percentage of the time to be spent en femme!

One thing that's been abundantly clear in my years of t-dating, is that there are so many niche within a niche within a niche, in essence, filtering mechanisms, its tough to get a deep, on-going connection there, and for that aspect, certainly give the nod more to GG dating for a higher statistical groundedness (sure divorce rates are 50%, but a t-gal considers herself in a relationship, if the beau is still in contact 24 hours later :D

But, Heaven forbid, were I to be back out SO hunting, I would be fishing in the MtF TG pool, I've evolved that much, myself. And I know other couples, with both GG & TG SOs so both "formulas" work. Of course, a TG SO would require pretty thick skin, (i.e., no "cultural free pass").

Accepting & understanding (as in how far down the TG continum do you see yourself, even if only potentialy, headed?) what it all means to you, is a sensible "prerequisite" for going on a S.O. hunt- if you don't know & love yourself, how are you gonna be able to share that with a partner?

One can also consider lumping into that catchall category of hobby, esp. if part-time/non-op, which could potentially make for an easier sell.

Compromise & negotiation are important couple skills, so you'll be delving into that, right out of the gate!

Best of luck,
Paula

[Samantha Kelsey]

I didn't have to come out as such to my SO. She already knew about me before we became an item. I did however verify to her that I was a CD'er. She had no problems with it and even before our relationship started she had been in the company of Samantha several times. She is now also a member of this site, Katy Dee. Why not ask her how she felt/feels

[allisonrn06]

I found an accepting GG wife, although when I initially told her she wasn't very accepting. I don't think she could handle the idea of me being completely "out", but given my current circumstances, I can't and don't want to be completely out. Otherwise, she is completely cool with it. We are going shopping together, today!

[Angie G]

When after 38 years with my wife It came out about my dressing I put it out there in a round about way and she has been very accepting. She know it's who I am And I'm the same guy she married. One day she wanted some atention she was fine kissing and hugging Angie.:hugs:
Angie

[mishelle379]

Are the chances of success in finding a woman who is accepting just too remote? That said, are there those who have found the ideal S.O in another T.G.?

just tol my new gf and she ran for the hills

[JulieC]

Btw - is that even a term: "mono-gendered"? lol You know what I meant. I'm not putting down non-cd's or anything. :)

It's a cute, mildly disparaging term. I love it :)


just tol my new gf and she ran for the hills

No worries. You didn't invest much time if this was "new girlfriend". On to the next!


Are the chances of success in finding a woman who is accepting just too remote? That said, are there those who have found the ideal S.O in another T.G.?

It's not remote. There's a fair chance of finding such a woman. Of everything I've seen in polls, etc..only about 20-30% are outright utterly non-accepting to the point of not wanting to date you or even leave you over it. The rest of women vary in their acceptance. About 10-20% are going to be overtly accepting and highly supportive.

Your chances of finding that perfect woman will go up if you do not maintain yourself in long, endless relationships with women who are not accepting.

I dated for a very long time before getting married. I dated a lot of women. Some were very long term relationships (multiple years). Some were considerably shorter. When I decided that I was ready to get married, I made a pact with myself that I wasn't going to get married to a woman who did not accept me as a CDer. Further, I wasn't going to spend more than six months on any particular woman. Either she was right or she wasn't, and anything past six months wasn't going to tell me more.

Date. After you've been dating them for a while, broach the subject with them. If they run for the hills as an above poster just recently had happen, be glad. You filtered out an unaccepting woman. On to the next. The more "no"s you receive, the closer you are to finding a "yes".

[Fancynancy]

After dating my wife for several months my then girfriend asked me if I was a crossdresser. She had a dream of me sitting in front of the television wearing a black chemise. I told her that yes I was. She went to the closet and handed me a very sliky robe of hers. The bump in the road was at first she didn't want to she me dressed in a bra and panties. This has changed as on Sunday she bought me the dress I have on now. Happy search for an accepting S.O.

[Deborah Jane]

It worked on here for me :D

This is the post that started Sheila and i talking........................................... .................................................. ...



..................WANTED......................
.............Wife, with nice clothing tastes........................
Must want to force me to share her clothing, shoes and accesories
In exchange, i,m offering to treat her as a Goddess and worship the ground she walks on

Please apply to.......
Deborah Jane [Dumb Blondie]
c/o
Crossdressers.com

[Jilmac]

I had only known my SO about six weeks when I told her about Jill. I was afraid she would head for the hills and never come back. We've been dating a year and a half and she is very accepting of Jill. However we have an agreement. Even though she has seen pictures of Jill and knows I dress often, she has no desire to meet Jill in person. I'm ok with that as long as I can stay out of the closet.

Keep looking there are women who will accept us for who we are and not for what we wear.

[Satrana]

Well the best way to find one is to be open about it from the start and even be dressed en-femme when meeting her. Then you will know for sure when you hit the jackpot.

Few women openly want to date a CD - probably less than 5% - whether through prejudice or ignorance, so you will likely have to try many times but you will succeed eventually.

But do keep in mind that relationships should never revolve around acceptance of your dressing. It may seem like the over-riding factor to you now, but in reality the normal compatibility issues are more important so resist the idea that idolization should be your focus or you may end up with someone less than loving.

[Sheila]

Few women openly want to date a CD - probably less than 5% - whether through prejudice or ignorance, so you will likely have to try many times but you will succeed eventually.

You got reliable stats to back this statement up Satrana .... or you just throwing out more random crap to wind the GG's up yet again :Angry3:

To the OP
Actually if all you are looking for is an accepting SO then ya you might find it a little more difficult, you see we women don't like to think we will be a suitable partner JUST BECAUSE WE ARE ACCEPTING ........... we kinda need more going on in a relationship than being doormats to CDR's:doh:

[_Michele_]

Yes, it's possible! I found my girlfriend on TSDATING.COM... She was seeking for guy like me! To tell you the true, we are lucky to be like we are and for some woman like mine... It's a gift! :battingeyelashes:

[Hope]

Are the chances of success in finding a woman who is accepting just too remote? That said, are there those who have found the ideal S.O in another T.G.?

Finding the person who is a perfect match (or a very close match) for you is a tough task no matter who you are or what your criteria are. The fact that your ideal woman is excited by a guy who wears a dress doesn't make it any harder. You are only looking for 1 woman, in a sea of billions.

Don't give up. You can find the one for you - you just have to keep tossing the ones that are not the right fit back, until you find the one who is the right fit. Just keep shopping ;)

For the record, my wife is awesome - but not TG.

[Jonianne]

Yes, I believe you can find an accepting SO. My wife and I have been together for nearly 10 years now and I told her before we were married.

Since I know I am simply an occasional crossdresser and am not taking it any farther than that, I was willing to work out compromises with her to give her security that I will always be her man. In return she took me out on my first outing saying Joni needs to feel the sun on her face and went to triess meetings with me (before we were married). Since then we go a few times a year to a hotel and I get to spend time going out dressed (we have kids at home and that was one of our compromises, to not dress in front of them). I have also spent time dressed on vacation and riding the train with her as well as at home when it is just us.

I believe there are open minded women out there who are willing to be accepting, if they know they can feel secure in that you are also willing to respect her and support her dreams and aspirations.

[Satrana]

Look there and you"ll actually see how many members of the site are happily married to accepting wives.
Ahh... but that is not a random blind survey so the numbers are useless. Also they are not indicative of how many women would choose to knowingly date a CD, quite different from women who choose to stay with their SOs after finding out later.

You remember that thread the other week where you mentioned the dating site plentyoffish - well there are several threads there where GGs were asked if they would like to date a CD and the overwhelming response was "I think CDs are cool but I would never date one personally" Examples of threads:
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts26662.aspx
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts2091335.aspx

Considering the members of the site are of the younger, more accepting generation, these threads indicate the resistance to dating a CD is still very prevalent.

[Teri Jean]

Being single after thirty five years has been a turning point in my life and with the desire to dress ever more influencing my life has broached the question of a SO. I would like to have a SO that would accept and support me but realistic also. The other side is my age (60) is a factor but I have four sisters-in-law that are supportive and we have fun together so I'm not that concerned as yet. Keli

[DaphneGrey]

My wife and I have a very similar arrangement.

[marla01]

I'm not married, but I've had three major loves in the last 15 years (all female). All of them were accepting and were actively attracted to Marla.

While I 'came out' early to the first of these three, the latter two I first met as Marla so there was nothing to come out about (other than explaining I was not TS) :-)

Now one thing I think has been a major factor is that I am attracted to open non-mainstream women. I would suggest that the women I am attracted to naturally would be more open to a non-mainstream relationship.

Marla

[sometimes_miss]

I think your best bet would be, if you dare, to dress and just go out. That way any women who might be interested will already know that you CD. Barring that, your chances are slim indeed. I've had ads up on dating sites for ten years now, with rarely a nibble. If you search this site, you will find assorted threads that address this topic; mostly, you have two groups. The first are men who told their SO after they were already together, and their mate is tolerant/accepting. The rest of us aren't so lucky. Either we split up over the crossdressing, or cannot find a mate. A very few have found accepting women, but aren't able to give the rest of us any clearly defined way to find them with any certainty. I kind of look at it as fishing without using any bait; sure, you have a chance of catching something, but the chances are remote. If you aren't willing to out yourself, the odds of finding anyone are nil.

[Alicia_lynn419]

Satrana

I looked at those threads on POF, and it was really depressing. I am currently back in one of my angst periods... though I try to remain positive and hopeful that I can have a healthy, functional relationship as Allie, sometimes I get feeling very discouraged to the point of wanting to make this part of me go away. Those threads were not encouraging - but not surprising either.

I know there are accepting ladies out there... just VERY few and far between...

[DemonicDaughter]

Just remember, a lot of what a person will and will not accept in a partner is also based on the personality and other habits that go with it.

I don't care if you dress in a tutu every day and sing show tunes (I'd probably join in actually :heehee:) as long as I find in you what I need to make our relationship work.

Its often the hiding, deceit and uncertainty that comes along with CDing that bothers partners. Not to mention so many cders express insecurity, identity issues, etc. Remember, your partner takes on ALL your issues when they start a relationship with you!

And its how things are presented that make a huge difference. If you dress for sexual reasons and present that to a partner... well... yeah, she might head for the hills.

In other words, you need to focus more on being yourself, open, honest and the acceptance comes out of that. But even the most accepting individual could also be the worst match for you.

[Angel.Marie76]

Almost every girlfriend (except my only ex-wife) I've hinted about my dressing to has basically said, with little to no hesitation, that the idea of me being a woman was /NOT/ considered to be tolerable. Granted it hasn't been that many, however regardless, I always seemed to get struck down. My ex-wife, who, interestingly enough, was interested in/connected to the S&M/BDSM lifestyle anyway, saw my dressing and basically just shrugged it off and said 'fine'. We weren't together long enough to get the opportunity to investigate the rest of that road together, however, now in her knowing of the 'updated' me, she's seemingly fine and generally supportive (she's the mother to my son so we're attached at the hip forever *rolls eyes*).

I came out to my current girlfriend -kinda- on accident as she was supposed to be leaving my region on what was a probable position at a new job WAY down south (N.E. -> New Orleans). When the job fell through and she came back under a month later she came back to a shaved man. I hadn't even had the chance to talk to her about it before, and we had been dating for about 7-8 months before then. All I can say is that she's been extremely supportive since. Sure we have our ups and downs, and there are very reasonable rules that we have in place, but the results are encouraging.

So, for the record, that's 2 out of, oh, lets say a handful?? That's not a bad average. It helps to connect with people that are connected to / involved in alternative lifestyles in general. Yes, I realize that A/L folks aren't in everyone's purse as options, but it's my reality. *shrug* I think my biggest concern would be, if I were looking, would be to find 'the one', whether it is indeed female OR male, that actually CARES about me as opposed to just me being, well, 'a plaything' if you will.

I don't believe it is impossible, but difficult, unfortunately.

[marla01]

Its often the hiding, deceit and uncertainty that comes along with CDing that bothers partners. Not to mention so many cders express insecurity, identity issues, etc. Remember, your partner takes on ALL your issues when they start a relationship with you!


I would like to echo this, I think it is an important criteria between those that find accepting partners and those that don't.

Marla

[Alicia_lynn419]

I would like to 2nd that motion.. in my own experience, I have seen too many relationship built only on acceptance of CDing... with little or no consideration for for the rest of the relationship. Cd or not... you need more than acceptance to make a relationship work. It's tricky - not to believe you've found the perfect woman just because she allows you to dress.... That's still only a very SMALL part of making a relationship successful.

[Sheila]

DD, marla01, Alicia .... thankyou ladies I was beginning to think I was crazy for believing that there hsd to be more to a successful relationship with a CDER than just be an accepting SO .................... seems I am either not as crazy as I thought or there are a few more peeps as crazy as me .......... will let others decide which it is :heehee::heehee:

[Mary Jane1]

I ask myself that question everyday. Being aware of my femininity all my life from wearing lingerie as a teen to recently exploring the possibilities of transitioning, I've come to have one absolute certainty as far as relationships go. I'll never hide or deny any part of me to the one I love again.

In return I'm not looking for acceptance but rather a woman who is supportive and enthusiastic about my femininity. Transitioning to womanhood is not practical for several reasons, but I'll always acknowledge the part of me that is a woman.

I digress. I have been exploring the bi-sexual and lesbian communities and have met some wonderful people, made friends and am meeting more through them. I haven't met Miss Right yet, but I'm closer and I have some great new friends who are match making. Soooo ... I'm hopeful, because I want that relationship more than anything.

Good luck to us both.

[marla01]

Speaking of accepting SO's, here is a portrait of me done by my girlfriend last Thursday....

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3541/3405200317_6764be01f9_m.jpg

Marla

[CD Susan]

Yes, it's possible! I found my girlfriend on TSDATING.COM... She was seeking for guy like me! To tell you the true, we are lucky to be like we are and for some woman like mine... It's a gift! :battingeyelashes:

I am happy for you Michele. I was a member of this site for over a year and all I encountered was a bunch of phoney guys who wanted to play mind games with me. I made friends with other cd's who were also unsuccessful in finding real women to date but that is all. I have been searching for an accepting female for the past 14 years and have given up on finding one that would be compatible with me considering the age that I am. I am resolved to living the rest of my life alone and that is probably the most realistic scenario possible.

[Satrana]

Wrong conclusion. I guess most of the CDs here with accepting wives didn't meet them through a website. Websites are so recent and give no idea of the real person as she is, face to face.

The website shows that the instinct of most women is that they are not interested in dating a CD. Now in a face to face meeting they may put that thought to the back of their minds if your personality wins them over, or when they learn what a CD actually is then they may change their minds but the instinct to avoid dating a CD is real enough. Many of the comments were quite forceful in their denunciation.

Still I am sure there are more women out there who will accept a CD partner than there are CDs, so it is just a matter of playing the odds and meeting enough women to get a break. Really no different from normal dating, just CDs have an extra handicap like telling people you are a tax collector!

[Jenniferpl]

Being married to supportive wife, I can say that there are accepting women out there. A lot has to do with how you go about it. Take it slow and stay with their comfort zone. You may be surprised on how it turns out. It is the lying and deceit that they have a problem with.

[JulieC]

Speaking of accepting SO's, here is a portrait of me done by my girlfriend last Thursday....

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3541/3405200317_6764be01f9_m.jpg

Marla


Will you marry this girl already? :)

[melissacd]

I have been dating a woman since last May and I came out to her very early in the relationship. I found her after a great deal of dating and during that dating process I told every one of the women very early. Most of them were okay with it, but in a way that was I like being your friend, but that is as far as it goes. Some ran off screaming. A few were really and sincerely okay with it.

I found these women through a variety of sources and means. In some cases I would advertise as male and then after a date or two test the waters on the CD side. In other cases I advertised as a CD so there was nothing to come out about. I got the highest level of interest when advertising as a male and as they got to know me they were not so bothered about the CD side.

I advertised in POF, HotorNot, You are Not Alone and so on...the point is that I got myself out there and just kept at it.

My process was initial dialog, get to know the person and see if there was any common ground, eventually get to email and chat, then if the comfort level was high enough meet for coffee or meals and face to face chat a few times, then I would bring up the subject and see how they responded. From there I would decide if it made sense to proceed further. In most cases it didn't, sometimes because of the reaction to the reveal of the cross dressing and sometimes because I just felt the chemistry was not right.

I was as open and honest with all of them as I could be and metered the process to decide even if I wanted to do the reveal, if there was a possibility of anything more.

Some of them I am still email friends with and they are all beautiful people regardless of how they reacted.

Last May I met my current girlfriend and there was a difference, something clicked in ways that had not before. She was so open and accepting and when I told her about my cross dressing she did not run for the hills.

The relationship has evolved and we have had our challenges but we love each other dearly. I am very open with her about everything including that I had been pondering hormones, facial feminization surgery (FFS) and going full time femme.

I have set aside the hormones and FFS at this point and I have assured her that I have no intention of getting SRS. I am having facial hair removal, I do dress 100% femme at home and quite often in public. I dress in a very flamboyant male mode and I am still very seriously planning on coming out at work and going 100% femme.

The 100% femme is scaring the crap out of her and I know that while she is very accepting of the dressing, she is very uncomfortable with the full time femme part.

We continue daily to work through the issues, however, the one thing that I realize this time around that in as much as I love her heart and soul, I cannot compromise my own personal journey. This is the learning that I have gained from 25 years in a relationship where I caved on all of what would make me personally happy.

So I guess the message is that with persistence you can find many women who, if you are caring and honest and respectful up front, will be okay with this to some level. THrough open and honest discussion you can establish whatever rules of the game will work, but you have to have a clear understanding of what is required for your own personal happiness and never concede on anything that will make you unhappy, which is not to say that you cannot compromise, you just have to be clear on the areas where you cannot compromise and still be happy in the relationship, even if that means losing that person.

It is more important to know what you want, live in the context of what makes you happy and find someone who can live within the framework of what makes you happy without compromising their own happiness. It is no better that they are unhappy either. It only works if you have common values and goals, shared interests and a willingness to respect each other's needs and right to be themselves without need to change.

Huggs
Melissa

[marla01]

Will you marry this girl already? :)

Can't, my closets are already full and she's a bigger clothes horse than I am :D

[sometimes_miss]

Being married to supportive wife, I can say that there are accepting women out there. A lot has to do with how you go about it. Take it slow and stay with their comfort zone. You may be surprised on how it turns out. It is the lying and deceit that they have a problem with.

Uh, no. If that were all there was as a problem, then being up front about being a crossdresser would solve all of our problems, and it doesn't. For most, the crossdressing is the straw that breaks the camel's back, not the deceit. How many men cheat on their SO's at some point? >50%. Do they all split up? No; lots of women get pissed off for a while, but take the guy back anyway.

It's really a matter of how our SO's perceive us. For those who see the sexual image completely screwed up by the female behavior/clothes, it can be over quickly. Others are able to overcome that, but they're not the majority.

Yes, lying and deceiving people is a problem that most won't put up with. But you'd be surprised at the number of women who stay with guys who lie to them, as opposed to the number of women who are willing to stay with a crossdresser. After all, most people lie to each other a little bit, so total honesty isn't really the issue.

The crossdressing is.

[Sheila]

Yes, lying and deceiving people is a problem that most won't put up with. But you'd be surprised at the number of women who stay with guys who lie to them, as opposed to the number of women who are willing to stay with a crossdresser. After all, most people lie to each other a little bit, so total honesty isn't really the issue. The crossdressing is.

try being in the shoes of an SO who has been lied to and decieved to for years ........ yeah the lies and deciet do hurt whether it is over cding, or cheating, or in any other thing and yeah we cannot expect totaly honesty ........... but at the end of the day lying about who you are from your partner for years is devastaing ........... I know I was there ............. CDing did not destroy my relationship the LIES and DECEIT did ............ how do I know ........ cos I am Marrying a CDER in OCT .. our very own Deborah Jane

[Ralph]

My process was initial dialog, get to know the person and see if there was any common ground, eventually get to email and chat, then if the comfort level was high enough meet for coffee or meals and face to face chat a few times, then I would bring up the subject and see how they responded. From there I would decide if it made sense to proceed further. In most cases it didn't, sometimes because of the reaction to the reveal of the cross dressing and sometimes because I just felt the chemistry was not right.

That response should be in a FAQ somewhere. That's *exactly* the right way to go about it, not meeting someone for the first time and saying "Hi, I'm a crossdresser... would you like to go out with me?" Or trying to pick someone up while en femme. Right away you're making it all about you: Demand that she show interest in you before you ever show any consideration for her interests. What woman would give such a self-centered approach a second thought?

Melissa's approach establishes a two-way rapport. You find out what she likes, she finds out what you like, and together you form a bond over shared interests before either of you makes a demand on the other to have an interest in more individual preferences.

To put this in another perspective, take the CDing out entirely. How do you establish a relationship with someone that leads to dating and/or marriage? You would demonstrate, through your words and actions, that you care about her, that you put her interests and desires ahead of yours, that you enjoy her company.

As someone else noted, you would NOT dump everything on the table from "Hello". Say you're an avid collector of Ewok merchandise - you have hundreds of the figurines, posters, t-shirts, bobbleheads, and sheets on your bed. Is that the first thing you would bring up when you introduce yourself? "Hi, I'm Ralph and I love Ewoks more than anything. I even have them on my sheets! Would you go out with me?"

Let's assume for now that I'm speaking hypothetically and not from experience.

ralph

[JoannaCaroline]

Uh, no. If that were all there was as a problem, then being up front about being a crossdresser would solve all of our problems, and it doesn't. For most, the crossdressing is the straw that breaks the camel's back, not the deceit. How many men cheat on their SO's at some point? >50%. Do they all split up? No; lots of women get pissed off for a while, but take the guy back anyway. ..........

The crossdressing is.

It worked for me for 10 years until I got married. I was up front every time and told them very early or on the first date. Only 1 out of about 12 said that they couldn't put up with my fetishes. Oh yes, and by the way crossdressing is minor compared to some of the other kinks I get into.

You keep saying basically the same thing in multiple posts. "women don't like crossdressers" "we can't just be honest" I think you're wrong and your problem is not your crossdressing. Its the people you try to date. Try some more open minded people.

[Alicia_lynn419]

Marla - That is a lovely painting your GF did of you.. I would be so touched if I had a GF who painted me as Allie!

Melissa, You make some good points about courting.. they seem very similar to the approach I've taken (but I'm still looking). I have along the way, if not making a love match, made some really great, accepting friends.

[Rachel Morley]

Are the chances of success in finding a woman who is accepting just too remote?
Too remote? ... I don't think it's "too" remote but if I were you I would not go into a relationship with this being my primary reason for dating the woman.

Crossdressing can be a part of your lives together, sure. It can even be the main reason you met in the first place (I met my darling wife Marla on a crossdressing forum (not this one) in the spring of 2001) but it is not the reason we are together. No matter how accepting she is I would not have married her if we were not a "good fit" for one another in all the other non-cding related activities. For her part, she was looking to date a CDer, but not at any cost so of course, she wasn't going to hook up with the first t-girl that came along, but she does think CDing is fun, and she likes to have a feminine partner but she's straight, so a CDer "might" be suitable .... but she wanted someone who was compatible with her as a person first and foremost and they'd have to have the sort of personality that she likes. The CDing thing was secondary to her. She had met a couple of CDers before and she liked them because they were "non-regular". My wife doesn't really like manly men. She was looking for a person who was more feminine in their attitude to life (and I don't mean their clothes either). I mean how women relate to one another. She wanted a guy to be more like that.

I would recommend you look for someone who has the sort of personality, values, and upbringing that makes them more tolerant of other things and other people in the world. Someone who is open to trying new things and who is also a "live and let live type of person". Someone who is an empathetic and compassionate person. Someone who finds it easy to see things from other people’s perspectives, and can put themselves in their shoes. Someone who wouldn’t presume to judge others and would at least try to understand what makes them tick. IMHO I believe that this is the sort person who is more likely to be accepting of CDing. :2c:

I think that there are potentially a lot of accepting GGs out there, but you are going to have to be the desirable person that she wants to be with in the first place before you can even "go there" with the CDing side of things .... that is, unless you meet someone on a CDing forum like I did where naturally they are going to be more "in tune" with that side of things from the get go. Good luck .... and remember "there's someone for everyone" ... you just have to find her. Be patient, if it's meant to be it'll happen. I was on my own for 12 years then out of the blue I met this wonderful woman in (what to me was) the most unlikely of places :)

[Kelli Michelle]

I believe that most women would have a problem with an SO or potential husband who was into crossdressing. Looking at it that way, i would say the chances of meeting someone into a cder (assuming they fit all other ways) would be very small.

However, we now have the internet. We also have dedicated groups, meetings, and events where it would be much more possible to meet that special someone. Either they are just looking for someone that is kind, honest, intelligent, etc. that just happens to be a cder, or they are "ok" with it, or they are "into" it. In other words, we can zero in on people with like interests, and they can zero in on us.

Just going to a bar (unless tg friendly), the mall, or wherever, hoping to meet that someone, to me, would be a lesson in futility,though obviously there would be a small chance of finding that person.

Like others have said, it really makes no difference if you are a cder, if you don't fit in other ways with what the lady is looking for.

[Jilmac]

I believe it's all in the way you are perceived as a person and not just a CD. I also believe that some women may feel that their own femininity is threatened by admitting they approve of a CDing man. I was married twice and both wives knew about my dressing before we tied the knot and both disapproved. My SO that I have now is very approving although she has no desire to meet Jill in person. She knows it's not a threat to our relationship or to her femininity.

[Missy Tanya]

Hopefully I never have to find another SO. I'm lucky, my wife loves Tanya and supports her in what every she dose.

But if for some unseen reason I had too again, I would have to find a SO that accepted Tanya and wanted to be with her anytime. Not sure how I would find her. At least with the internet and all the dating pages out their. I'm sure someone, somewhere, would like me first and shortly fall in love with both of us. Never will I go into hiding, its' been way too fun getting out of the closet.

Missy Tanya

[Satrana]

Or trying to pick someone up while en femme. Right away you're making it all about you: Demand that she show interest in you before you ever show any consideration for her interests. What woman would give such a self-centered approach a second thought?


Don't agree with this. If a woman dresses to the nines for a date does that mean it is all about her?

And since when did people ever date as their normal selves - everyone dresses up smart, is extra attentive and is tries hard to impress. Everyone puts on an act and it usually takes several dates for the real person to emerge.

There is nothing wrong with dating en femme, that does not make you self-centered rather it makes you very honest. It has the advantage that you will only attract women who are not put off by your dressing, but the disadvantage is that there will be far fewer women who will approach you.

I believe that the number of women who can be genuinely accepting is far larger than what many CDs believe however many of these GGs are themselves not even aware of their acceptance potential because they have completely erroneous ideas about CDs.

So if you are playing the odds then I believe the best strategy would be to initially meet en drab and then broach the subject of CDing after a few dates.

You can probably vary your strategy depending upon the venue. If you are going somewhere where flirting will be happening and it is a liberal crowd the I would choose en femme. If you are meeting a woman on a blind/arranged date then go en drab.

[Joanne f]

I would say that there are plenty of excepting SO`s out there , in a lot of case`s it is not the difficulty of finding them but more on the difficulty of convincing them that they mean more to you than the CDing.

[sometimes_miss]

But why waste time worrying about most women? The fact is that there are still very many women out there who are happy, even delighted, to be seen around with and to sleep with and to marry a crossdresser. How do I know? Because I've just counted the ones I've met - more than twenty. How many dates does a man need? How many SOs?

Great! O.K., Katie, point us all towards the [at least] 19 single ones that you aren't involved with. They can pick from all of us single CD'er's here! I'm sure they will be thrilled!. In fact, you can probably start your own CD dating website! I'm first in line. Or are you just going to claim again that they're out there, you know that, but you're not going to tell us where or who they are, because it's your little secret? We've been through this fairytale before, Katie. Put up or, well, you know.


You keep saying basically the same thing in multiple posts. "women don't like crossdressers" "we can't just be honest" I think you're wrong and your problem is not your crossdressing. Its the people you try to date. Try some more open minded people.

It's not that they don't like us, it's that they're not sexually attracted to us. Open minded or not, that doesn't tell you whether they will be attracted to you sexually. Most women are 'wired' to be attracted to masculine traits and appearances. Despite all the bi-curious propaganda out there, the vast majority of women don't want to kiss or have sex with another woman, or even someone who's doing their best to appear to be one. Think about it; how many straight men would find a woman attractive once she puts on enough weight to eliminate her feminine waistline, cuts her hair into a crew cut, puts on a mustache, wears not 'man tailored' female suits, but real male clothes, underwear included, and straps her breasts down so she appears to have a masculine figure, and does her best to adopt male physical mannerisms, vocal patterns, walking patterns ( to avoid that feminine wiggle we all love to see), get the idea? We're talking about the ultimate stereotypical 'bull dike' here. The answer will be very, very few indeed. It works both ways. And asking guys here if we would accept a woman who 'occasionally' does that doesn't count, because your basically preaching to the choir, not the general population.

The reason we have to face the issue of crossdressing first rather than deal with all the other things that may or may not be attractive to the woman who is the target of our affections, is because it's a very, very big deal breaker for the vast majority of women out there; women who will forgive cheaters, drunks, drug addicts, compulsive liars, wife beaters, murderers, criminals, you name it, but will not date a crossdresser because sexually, not only does it not turn them on, but it turns them off, and there's nothing you can do about that. As Dave Deangelo says, attraction is not a choice. She either is going to be sexually attracted to you, or she is not. We don't get to choose whether we get turned on by someone or not, and it's that fact that presents our biggest obstacle here; it's not whether women will like us, it's whether they will feel passionate love and sexual desire for us. And the percentage of women who are attracted to feminine men is very, very low. Yes, they are out there. But yes, there are very, very few of them, and so far, there is no simple method of finding them, even if, and unless, you're willing to be completely 'out'.

[subaru_forster]

Great! O.K., Katie, point us all towards the [at least] 19 single ones that you aren't involved with. They can pick from all of us single CD'er's here! I'm sure they will be thrilled!. In fact, you can probably start your own CD dating website! I'm first in line. Or are you just going to claim again that they're out there, you know that, but you're not going to tell us where or who they are, because it's your little secret? We've been through this fairytale before, Katie. Put up or, well, you know.



It's not that they don't like us, it's that they're not sexually attracted to us. Open minded or not, that doesn't tell you whether they will be attracted to you sexually. Most women are 'wired' to be attracted to masculine traits and appearances. Despite all the bi-curious propaganda out there, the vast majority of women don't want to kiss or have sex with another woman, or even someone who's doing their best to appear to be one. Think about it; how many straight men would find a woman attractive once she puts on enough weight to eliminate her feminine waistline, cuts her hair into a crew cut, puts on a mustache, wears not 'man tailored' female suits, but real male clothes, underwear included, and straps her breasts down so she appears to have a masculine figure, and does her best to adopt male physical mannerisms, vocal patterns, walking patterns ( to avoid that feminine wiggle we all love to see), get the idea? We're talking about the ultimate stereotypical 'bull dike' here. The answer will be very, very few indeed. It works both ways. And asking guys here if we would accept a woman who 'occasionally' does that doesn't count, because your basically preaching to the choir, not the general population.

The reason we have to face the issue of crossdressing first rather than deal with all the other things that may or may not be attractive to the woman who is the target of our affections, is because it's a very, very big deal breaker for the vast majority of women out there; women who will forgive cheaters, drunks, drug addicts, compulsive liars, wife beaters, murderers, criminals, you name it, but will not date a crossdresser because sexually, not only does it not turn them on, but it turns them off, and there's nothing you can do about that. As Dave Deangelo says, attraction is not a choice. She either is going to be sexually attracted to you, or she is not. We don't get to choose whether we get turned on by someone or not, and it's that fact that presents our biggest obstacle here; it's not whether women will like us, it's whether they will feel passionate love and sexual desire for us. And the percentage of women who are attracted to feminine men is very, very low. Yes, they are out there. But yes, there are very, very few of them, and so far, there is no simple method of finding them, even if, and unless, you're willing to be completely 'out'.

Arrrrgggg!

I don't know your full story, or what can truly be attributed to your lack of luck, but the truth is that what you're saying about the impossibility in finding the right woman, who shares or at least tolerates any interest you might have, blatantly contradicts the experiences I'm reading of most of the people on this thread! Mine especially.

I'm no less of a Y-chromosome owner than the next guy, but I'll tell you one thing that is sure more likely to repel women than crossdressing: being utterly ashamed of who you are and lacking the confidence needed to find someone. A mentally balanced crossdresser who respects himself will have much less difficulty dating than someone who is spineless, but otherwise excels in other social norms perfectly.

If you're single, you have a lot of freedom to get out there and mingle (if you haven't met anyone who is open to dating a crossdresser, you haven't mingled enough, and probably at the wrong venues). This freedom is different from any other freedoms that we enjoy though. Most types of freedom we will end up losing if we don't exercise them. The freedom of being single is one that if you don't exercise, you're sure to have forever.

Where do the horror stories I read on this forum come from? The ones who feel that their interests are shameful and need to be hidden.

[Kelli Michelle]

I do get frustrated when people use this web site as an example of proof that there are tons (high percentage)of many accepting ggs out there. Seriously, this website skews that idea. Of course there will be (percentage wise) more accepting ggs here. How could there not be? And like an earlier post said there is a difference between a gg accepting crossdressing in general, and actually wanting to date one. My wife says she has no problem with crossdressers in general. She would have no problem if a friends so was one. But not HER husband. This is just an example (a very small one) of what I am meaning to illustrate.

I would like to hear what people think the percentages are of the female population of the US that would date a crossdresser. I will go ahead and give you my thoughts, of course I have no real data. My idea is that the percentage would be very low, less than 10%. IF, that was true, it would be very difficult to meet that gg willing to date you, unless you go to tg specific, websites, outings, and events.

[subaru_forster]

I do get frustrated when people use this web site as an example of proof that there are tons (high percentage)of many accepting ggs out there. Seriously, this website skews that idea. Of course there will be (percentage wise) more accepting ggs here. How could there not be? And like an earlier post said there is a difference between a gg accepting crossdressing in general, and actually wanting to date one. My wife says she has no problem with crossdressers in general. She would have no problem if a friends so was one. But not HER husband. This is just an example (a very small one) of what I am meaning to illustrate.

I would like to hear what people think the percentages are of the female population of the US that would date a crossdresser. I will go ahead and give you my thoughts, of course I have no real data. My idea is that the percentage would be very low, less than 10%. IF, that was true, it would be very difficult to meet that gg willing to date you, unless you go to tg specific, websites, outings, and events.

I don't have the authority to actually guess a number, and I'll accept that this number isn't the majority. I do, argue, that this number is "high enough". My evidence for this "high enough" figure, beyond my own anecdotal experience, lies in the fact that the crossdressers in this forum who are in a happy relationship are not a rarity at all. In fact, it doesn't seem to be any rarer per-capita than I notice in society at large.

I don't think anyone here claimed that you would get women flocking to you if you go outside in a dress. All anyone here was saying is that accepting women are out there, and can be found if looked for.

Again, I would like to stress the point made that this alone shouldn't be a sole criteria, and that just because someone accepts your CDing doesn't mean that it's a good match. Rather, this effectively is just one criterium in a sea of many.

[sometimes_miss]

You know, I keep hearing that it's all about my lack of confidence, that my attitude sucks. But I really need the people here who like to talk about all the CD interested women to start putting up or shutting up. If you really know about lots of women who are really into crossdressers, lets have it. Where are they? If you can't answer that question, than all else is moot. You're engaging in wishful thinking, nothing more. For those of you who have an accepting mate, I congratulate you. But don't for a moment think that the world is overrun with women desperately seeking crossdressers, because it isn't. Out if curiosity, I will ask Marcus on POF to include a check box for women who are interested in crossdressers. I'm not optimistic, but I will ask; after all, if there really are a lot of women out there, surely they will encourage this as well.

Subaru Forster wrote:
All anyone here was saying is that accepting women are out there, and can be found if looked for.
Fair enough. Where do you suggest we look? Or are we back at random chance?
My position is that for absolutely any other interest group, there are places where people who are into it congregate. Religious folks go to their place of worship. Golfers are found at golf courses and country clubs. Sports nuts are found in sports bars. Gay men go to gay men's clubs, gay women go to gay women's clubs. There are NO crossdresser-straight girl clubs. NONE. Zero. Or can anyone tell me where one is? Really. I'm patient, I've been waiting for quite a while now since this topic was discussed more than a few times since I joined the site last year. Really. Tell me where there is ONE. Just ONE. That's all it takes. There are millions of women in the U.S. alone looking for a mate. Millions. Now, more than a few of us make pretty good money. That alone will interest quite a lot of women. And, a lot of us are quite decent, law abiding men, who really want wives. There are plenty also, who don't drink, don't use drugs, and don't have any diseases. Gee, you'd think there would be at least a few bright women who could figure out that she'd have a very easy time convincing one of us to date her, marry her, right??? So, where are all these women? Hmmmm, admins, how much would it cost to put up a banner ad on POF or one of the other sites to see if any women will come here to visit? I for one am more than willing to pay a reasonable (alright, I'm willing to pay an exhorbitent amount, and I'm willing to bet a lot of the other guys will go for it too) to get women here to date.

The online crossdresser communities are inhabited by men, and a few of the crossdresser SO's; you will see a very, very few (and I really mean few, less than a handful) GG's there, but if there were truly a lot of women interested in this, those sites (and this one, obviously) would be filled with women...and they aren't.

[Sheila]

Actually we are interested in the person, few peeps actually go looking for a mate/partner who is into anything, be it CDing, football, fishing, golf, or anything else .......................... I most certainly did not look for a cdr, nor did I look for a golfer, I got both with my EX & again I did not look to date a cdr after my previous relationship broke up, but not only did I end up dating one I am marrying him in OCT .................. had he been involved in Golf we would never have got off the ground :devil:

Sometiss miss I will not shut up, there are accepting GG's out there ...... it depends on who you are as a person, and how you treat people

[cdterri]

Have have 6 long term relationships in the last 45 yrs. with no problems concerning my cding, You just have too feel the person out before getting too involved. If You get negative vibes move on. There's someone out there for everyone.

[JoannaCaroline]

Arrrrgggg!

I don't know your full story, or what can truly be attributed to your lack of luck, but the truth is that what you're saying about the impossibility in finding the right woman, who shares or at least tolerates any interest you might have, blatantly contradicts the experiences I'm reading of most of the people on this thread! Mine especially.

I'm no less of a Y-chromosome owner than the next guy, but I'll tell you one thing that is sure more likely to repel women than crossdressing: being utterly ashamed of who you are and lacking the confidence needed to find someone. A mentally balanced crossdresser who respects himself will have much less difficulty dating than someone who is spineless, but otherwise excels in other social norms perfectly.

If you're single, you have a lot of freedom to get out there and mingle (if you haven't met anyone who is open to dating a crossdresser, you haven't mingled enough, and probably at the wrong venues). This freedom is different from any other freedoms that we enjoy though. Most types of freedom we will end up losing if we don't exercise them. The freedom of being single is one that if you don't exercise, you're sure to have forever.

Where do the horror stories I read on this forum come from? The ones who feel that their interests are shameful and need to be hidden.


Have to agree with you on this one. Something Miss will never meet an accepting SO because she has set her mind to it. To those who think it is impossible. It almost always is!

Something Miss. Here's your list of where to meet accepting SO's. I'm not going to call and set the dates up for you. If your too lazy or so fatalistic you won't try then just learn to live with your failure and please stop whining.

This list is in no particular order but all places where I've met accepting women. I've also met accepting women through the normal ways you meet accepting women, work, grocery shopping, school etc. The only common denominator was that I only date OPEN MINDED people.

1. Dance Clubs. Yes if you've got the right attitude you can meet women in a straight dance club. If you sit in the corner cuddling your drink and look like a disturbed mental patient it won't work.
2. Neighborhood bar in Utah of all places. A girl was talking to me and asked why my legs were shaved. I told her the truth. She begged me to go home and dress and go to the club next door with her.
2. Gay clubs. Yes women go there with their gay friends and do occasionally date TG's. Ive done it twice.
3. Fetish events. I've been hit on and picked up at the Folsom street fair, Gay Pride NYC , Salt Lake City, Amsterdam, Lausanne.
4. Any friend who knows you CD can set you up with someone who has an open mind.
5. BDSM classes. Yes Open minded people tend to frequent these places. I've been to classes and events and I've started dating several different women there
6.LGBT centers. yes most people here are either lesbian or Gay but they are open minded and have open minded friends.
7. Online. Yes I did it once. A very sweet girl. Guess what all her friends were gay and her roommate was gay. What does that say. OPEN MINDED.
8. Drag Show. Women love to go to these things for girls nights. And they are fascinated when they discover a TG claiming to be straight. They will fight over themselves to talk to you. Will they date? Depends on you! I've done this is Chicago, NYC, and South Carolina of all places. It works the same in each place

If you sit in your house always bemoaning never meeting a accepting SO you'll never meet one. It's exactly like whining about not finding a job when you never apply for one.

Now I know Something Miss will have some reason to call all of this false but you asked for a list. There's your list.

[sometimes_miss]

Joanna, you're the first one to give a real answer, rather than the usual 'just get out there' response. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I have my mind set on never meeting anyone; it's just that no one has ever given me any clue on how to go about it. You have. Thank you. I live near NYC, and have a two gay aquaintences at work, that I hope will be kind enough not to out me to the working world while I pursue this. Hopefully, this probably won't be all that hard.

I think one of the big problems here is that saying things like 'just get out there and meet people', is pretty much about as useful as telling people to be confident at something that they have never been good at, without any specific suggestions on how to improve the experience.
Every time, and I mean every friggin' time I have asked people where or how to meet women who might be interested in a CD'er, all I get is 'they are out there, just look for them', always without any suggestion as to where. It was kind of like being in a desert, and being told that there is water there, you just have to look for it. Well yeah, if you're a scientist you can figure it out, but 99.9% of the population will die of thirst first.
Now I have a plan, and a 'target' population. This shouldn't be all that hard. Might take a while to find someone compatible, but at least I won't be barking up the wrong trees anymore.

[JoannaCaroline]

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I have my mind set on never meeting anyone; it's just that no one has ever given me any clue on how to go about it. You have. Thank you. I live near NYC, and have a two gay aquaintences at work, that I hope will be kind enough not to out me to the working world while I pursue this. Hopefully, this probably won't be all that hard.

I think one of the big problems here is that saying things like 'just get out there and meet people', is pretty much about as useful as telling people to be confident

Well in NYC it really can be just a question of just getting out there.

In the winter of 2001 I met a wonderful accepting woman in a fetish shop in Jersey. I moved to NYC in the summer of 2001. I was tripping over accepting women and men everywhere even on the subway. Yes I met a few idiots also. Any city where you can walk into a MAC exposition with a girlfriend, dressed as a boi, get your makeup done and walk home in broad daylight without anyone batting an eye, is an openminded city.

In Middle america your disagreement with "just get out there" barely works. I NYC....you're absolutely wrong. Do a little research, find some of the more moderate gay, and lesbian bars or a TG bar ( they do exist in NYC). Make an appearance and be social. In the TG bar though you're going to be hit on by men. That's why they exist. You may meet a few TG's though if you can put up with obnoxious men. Then move on to more mainstream. It is easier to do with friends but everyone has to start somewhere.