frustrated

[tealannette]

Hi girls, just a little rant about SO's. If I have to stay not only in the closet, but also refrain from doing what makes me happy, I'll go mad. If my two daughters can understand and be encouaging, than why can't my wife. My two daughters don't know everything, but they have heard my wife throwing it in my face alittle from time to time. They say patience is a virtue (i don't think so). As you may have guessed girls i tried again to talk about CD'ing. She won't give at all. At my ropes end. I may be alittle emotional right now because i just went through the "who are again photo's", all of you are so beautiful. I hope to post there some (soon). Well, thanks listening.:2c::chained:

[JeanneF]

Did you tell her about you being a CD prior to getting married? If you didn't, why do you expect that she's going to immediately be accepting? How would you feel if she sprung something major about herself on you after "x" number of years of marriage?

[tealannette]

yes, she knows. we have been talking off and on for 5 or 6 years. i'm waiying for her to digest it all. Then hopefully she will give an inch.:sad:

we talked about this within 6 months of dating. There were many arguements back then. Then I decided to give it some time. I love my wife dearly, I would hope she would do the same. All I want is some girl time:)

gotta run for a bit. back in about an hour.:hugs:

[Karren H]

Well don't push her too hard... The back lashes are nevr pretty and usually end up worse off.... Slow is usually advised but that never gaurantees success.. Moving too fast will always guarantee failure...

[tealannette]

Karen yoy are right. But 6 years!!! How slow does a girl have to be?:sad:

[JoAnne Wheeler]

Welcome to my world sister dear - it makes CDing so frustrating

JoAnne Wheeler

[DonnaT]

Karen yoy are right. But 6 years!!! How slow does a girl have to be?:sad:

took my wife nearly 30 years to get to where she is now

[tealannette]

Thanks JoAnne, I'm not giving up. Some day :hugs:

I'll go just mad Donna, just mad i tell you.Even if she would just give alittle.

[Di]

I just do not understand why since you explained it to her before getting married why you would marry someone that doesnt accept all of you?................I get when it's hidden and then is told yrs down the line...but since this isn't the case...did she say no to it when dating and you thought could shelf it?
I really don't know what to say ...you could invite her here to learn more and have other GG's to talk to and she can see it really isn't a big deal. Or work out where you have your time to be yourself there are alot of couples that have where they know but do not want to be involved with that part of your life.
I guess you both need to talk and sort out what you each need and expect and come to some kind of compromise.

[Nena]

Being stubborn is one thing, but making making (presumably negative) references to your CDing in the presence of your daughters is inappropriate and you should request that she stop. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the fact that she is doing this is evidence that you may be pushing too hard.

In cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT), core beliefs are explored in detail. What likely is occurring is that your CDing is challenging one or more of your wife's core beliefs. For example, a she might have the core belief is that a man cannot enjoy being feminine and still be a man.

Core beliefs typically lead to thought distortions that reinforce the core belief (e.g. a man that likes to wear a dress is gay; cross dressing is the gateway to being a transsexual; a husband's cross dressing will mean the eventual end of the marriage; a husband's cross dressing will give permission to his children to experiment with their own sexuality or gender).

Cross dressing can challenge a number of core beliefs. The previous one relates to who you are, as her husband. However, your CDing also might challenge a core belief about how your wife sees herself (i.e. as a woman, as a wife, and as a mother). One way to look at this is that your wife's resistance to your CDing might have as much to do with her as it does with you.

These are complex issues and I cannot go into more detail here. However, suffice it to say that people tend to cling to their core beliefs as if their life depends on it. Challenging a core belief directly works well in some cases. Two things help the process: being able to deal with the issue intellectually and being more or less secure in one's own identity. A majority of the time, however, neither of these is present. In this case, the approach needs to be one that attempts to expand the core belief rather than change it. One strategy is to guide your wife to recognize for herself the fallacy of her thought distortions connected to the core belief.

I will stop here. Good luck!

Nena GG

[TGMarla]

Well don't push her too hard... The back lashes are nevr pretty and usually end up worse off.... Slow is usually advised but that never gaurantees success.. Moving too fast will always guarantee failure...
Karren's right. Don't push it. I've been married 15 years, and I still keep this all under wraps, despite the fact that she knows I do this. I take my opportunities when I can, and I admit, most don't have the freedom or frequency that I have. I'm grateful. It's like it's never enough, but that's the way it is.

[TSchapes]

that's what I'm going to do. I think I found one, that deals with sexual issues. He's working with my son right now who's gay. No he's not trying to change him, just trying to help him through (the counselor is gay himself).

Once my son's issues have calmed down, I'm going to tackle ours...

Good luck hon, but I don't think you're out of line in asking for these things.

Love, Tracy

[CD Susan]

Karen yoy are right. But 6 years!!! How slow does a girl have to be?:sad:

Only 6 years? I tried for 23 years to get my ex to even tolerate my cd'ing to a small extent but to no avail. My mistake was telling her after we got married and not before. I know that was a huge mistake now and deeply regret it. We divorced 14 years ago and cd'ing was one of the issues that led to it. We are both much happier now.

[wishfulcd]

My SO is not comfortable with my CD'ing, and as a father of 4 girls and one boy I make certain that my choices do not interfere, or become evident, to my children. How to do I manage....a lot of negociation with my SO...a little hope, but no overtness towards the children; and my SO respects that and works with me on this.

Negociation means being open to realistic situations and everyday events, which obviously will limit your CD'ing, but done right will also open up the doors to a lot of "quality time" with your "hobby". Quality time is not only for children, or for you and your SO, but always make sure to keep enough "quality Time" for your needs.

I myself have not reahced the perfect balance, but I am much closer to defining a comfort zone with my dress code today, than I was a year ago while living in the closet. All that is not blessed by society requires a revolution in order to accept change; this revolution can be pacific, democratic, and slow or brutal, unilateral, and quick. I always choose the slow but within a concensus.

For us it is simple, for our SO's it is like expaining the laws of thermodynamics to a used auto salesman. Yet if you have enough patience, even I would understand the law of relativity.

I too would like a broader spectrum, but have learned to live with each inch gained through conversation, patience and a little convincing.

[kathrynjanos]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to need to say that 5-6 years is too long to wait for acceptance, or even a shred of an inch to open a real dialogue. I know that's so final, but it's just from my point of view too much to ask.

From my view, if the CD'ing must be part of you and your marriage (and really, it MUST, unless they can "cure" us), and she categorically refuses to even have a meaningful conversation about it, then your marriage cannot be complete. If I were you, I would flip the conversation around:

"Honey, I told YOU that I was doing this before we were ever tied to each other. Why didn't you tell me that you would NEVER accept this?"

I just think life is too short to have someone with you who will not accept a major part of who you are. But then, in her favor, I think that maybe she like so many people sees this as some sort of willful choice, which is why she won't accept it. Once she understands that you are you, and this is part of you, maybe she'll be able to accept it with the same love that she accepts any of your other "flaws" or idiosyncrasies.

[docrobbysherry]

that's what I'm going to do.
Good luck hon, but I don't think you're out of line in asking for these things.
Love, Tracy

On the one hand, Annette, ultimately, u need to be who u really r! Maybe u didn't know who u were when u got married. Maybe u don't know now!:doh:

On the other hand, I just got back from a wedding, and,
" ---in sickness, and in health, and even if he decides to wear your dresses, as long as u both shall live?", was NOT part of the wedding vows!:brolleyes:

U BOTH will need help to work out your issues, which PROBABLY include some besides your dressing! Find a good counselor immediately!:thumbsup:

[tealannette]

Hi susan, i'm willing to keep trying for awhile, but in the end a divorce may be the best for both of us.

[JulieC]

Hi susan, i'm willing to keep trying for awhile, but in the end a divorce may be the best for both of us.

There's other options. There are a number of posters here (KH comes to mind) who have achieved sort of a detente with their spouse. They dress, and dress frequently, but never in front of their wives.

This might not be possible in your current circumstance. Therefore, think of ways to change your circumstance to give you more time alone. Work hard on this long before you consider divorce as an option. Your kids are in the balance, remember.

I happen to have a very accepting wife. But, just to please myself I've come up with ways to indulge my CDing. One of them is micro-dressing. I do this sometimes in the mornings after my wife has left for work, and I'm getting ready for work. I'll quickly get dressed en femme and spend 20-30 minutes getting ready for work, and stay en femme until the last moment when I changed into male clothes.

There's other outlets to explore as well. Consider stashing a pair of (drive-safe) heals in your car to change into while going places. Underdress; wear pantyhose and/or other femme undergarments under your male clothes.

I lived with a girlfriend for years who was not accepting. I found many ways to express my CDing. I eventually parted ways with her over reasons unrelated to CDing. But during the time we were together, she saw me in anything femme maybe three times. She knew I did, but never saw it much. I did find other outlets, and you can too.

[Jess_cd32]

Karen yoy are right. But 6 years!!! How slow does a girl have to be?:sad:

I think 6 years is more than enough time to come to a decision whether she's going to tolerate or accept it. It sounds as if she isn't going to in any way shape or form. About 6 months would be my limit, so far its been about two since I came out to her and we've made alot of progress. I understand none of them asked for this and they must also understand what this is like for us inside dealing with these urges daily/hourly. Mine took the initiative to learn about cd's and that has greatly helped us in staying together. Mine at least knows as well this wasn't a choice thing to do and (tries) to understand the lieing that went with it.

Just because she doesn't accept it doesn't mean she doesn't love you, thats a mistake we make thinking sometimes, guilty here as well on that one before. As a cd'er myself I know your frustration all to well and I think most can relate to that here. A relationship takes two happy people to make it work, not just one while the other suffers in silence. In all honesty I don't see that happening after 6 years but its only fair that you might ask her to counceling as suggested especially if your considering a divorce. She needs to understand you need your happiness as well, and can you both find an work towards a happy medium to make it work.
If she remains stubborn like it sounds she has been then the ball is in your court and you'll need to make the decision what to do. Your frustration comes thru loud and clear which promted that last statement. Good luck.

[DonnaT]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to need to say that 5-6 years is too long to wait for acceptance, or even a shred of an inch to open a real dialogue. I know that's so final, but it's just from my point of view too much to ask.

I guess it depends on how much inner strength one has. And how much love they have for their SO/spouse.

To me, looking back, 6 years was a drop in the bucket. At 30 yrs, the bucket became full.

[kathrynjanos]

I guess it depends on how much inner strength one has. And how much love they have for their SO/spouse.

To me, looking back, 6 years was a drop in the bucket. At 30 yrs, the bucket became full.

Donna, I'm not sure how to read that, is that to say that you finally gave up after 30 years, or you got what you wanted after 30 years?

It just seems to me that the misery of waiting 30 years for some semblance of acceptance and respect is too much to ask.

I don't know if you're going to do anything like this, Annette, that is, consider divorce, but if you are, bring it up in that context to your wife. Not a threat, just "Honey, I can't take this anymore, is this something that you feel can only be dealt with by divorce?"

[JulieC]

I don't know if you're going to do anything like this, Annette, that is, consider divorce, but if you are, bring it up in that context to your wife. Not a threat, just "Honey, I can't take this anymore, is this something that you feel can only be dealt with by divorce?"

I wouldn't offer this. This is an ultimatum essentially. It's saying "You have to either accept me fully as a crossdresser or we're headed for divorce"

I'd approach this by having a discussion with her about crossdressing, and trying to come to some understanding about borders. She doesn't accept it, doesn't like it, can't deal with it. That's fine (well, sort of), so come up with ways that the husband can get some alone time, away from her and the kid(s), to be able to crossdress.

It doesn't have to be something that dominate a life to the exclusion of other reasonable demands of life. But, you can certainly come up with ways to permit some expression of femininity without causing harm to the marriage in the process.

There's a kid (or more than one) in the balance here. All avenues should be tried.

[donnadawn]

My wife has know of my CDing for over 15 years. I took things very gradual because she never approved but would tolerate if not over done. And by that I mean not too often and not too over the top (ie. Not too much make-up or too dressy and especially not in public with a bra. I've woren nothing but panties and night gowns for years and she has accepted that. But, just recently she admitted that if we were to have any physical relationship ( we're both 61) that whe would have to accept my dressing as that is how I get excited. The last time we did she even said that I looked pretty. 15 years and it is still a work in progress. So my advice is continue to take your time and don't push it beyond her limits ( find out what her limit is ) . If she really loves you whe will continue to stay with you and tolerate it but if the hate is greater then the love it is all over. You need to talk to her and establish some ground rules.

[kathrynjanos]

I wouldn't offer this. This is an ultimatum essentially. It's saying "You have to either accept me fully as a crossdresser or we're headed for divorce"

Misreading me, Julie. What I'm saying there is to bring that possibility to the forefront. Show what this kind of outright denial is bringing you to. I think that if you bring it to her just straight out saying that this is who you are, that you can not change this, and this means this much to you, then maybe she'll at least give you a fair hearing. That's the start. But to unilaterally decide "Nope, not now, not ever," that's beyond unfair.

[marika_jaye]

I feel your pain, girls. My wife and I came as close to divorce today as we've ever been, and crossdressing was a large part of the reason why.

She doesn't want me "out" in our town, not even to walk out the street and move my car into our driveway. The 50 feet from our door to the curb is too much exposure for her. My thinking is slightly less strict...nobody was looking, no cars were coming in either direction and it was the middle of the day when most people are at work or school...so no harm done, right? Wrong-O!

Oh well, live and learn. Apparently my wife isn't quite ready for that sort of attention from the neighbors just yet. :D

[christinek]

I am so sorry to hear all the negative results of coming out to your SO and the time period of acceptance or no acceptance. I have been married 16 years next month and I came out a year ago, my wife is amazing about it. I understand the fear factor and the need to keep things under wraps (what if the friends and family find out!) I dont have that problem but I do get it.

Look, this is not a video game! You don't get three tries, you live once and that's it. If you are not completely happy do something about it! "But we stay together for the kids" Yeah right! The kids see straight through your counter measures.

I have even read that some SO's say "dress only when I leave the house during this period of time and make sure no one see's you".

If you are not happy then no one is happy and you are doing no one any favors.

Good Luck
Christine

[Stefanie_Adams]

Karen yoy are right. But 6 years!!! How slow does a girl have to be?:sad:

Slow can mean years, really. My wife has known for 19 years and still does not want to see or participate in my femininity.
from time to time she will make comments not rude though more like ribbing or kidding me. It really has to be at HER pace not ours if you want to stay together..
I know that is extremely difficult at times but I think that it's because we want to "play" with our girl things and we want to look like women we adore so much. But even when I have to be "EnDrab" I am still "Stefanie" inside.
It certainly isn't easy living in a world that is mostly gray were certain things are to be considered Black and white by society. Hope that made some sense.:)

[tealannette]

well girls, just allittle update. i've read all your thoughts and suggestions. alot of good advise. this weekend i was going to try and talk to my wife, but wouldn't you know it, the movie we started watching was "silence of the lambs", and she went off on the character in the movie. (stereotyping every ts/tg/tv out there). Needless to say i kept everything to myself. i will keep trying. thanks for your thoughts.:hugs::hugs::hugs:

[kathrynjanos]

Hey Annette,

This brings me back to a common point: You need to dispel her misconceptions. How you do that is up to you. I tend to like to shock people directly, so in your case, I'd just get all dressed up and wait around for her to come home from work. Not saying that's what you need or should do, just how I deal with things.

But in short, find ways to show her how normal CDs really are. Not that we are normal as in "conventional gender roles," but that we are normal in how, essentially, "Girls just wanna have fun." Not that we do it all for fun, but you get the idea.

Try to use some of us (myspace and facebook accounts, for example) as examples. Print out some good threads that you think exemplifies the thought processes, hopes, and desires of your fellow CDs, whatever you think is best.

Regrettably (sincerely saddened by it) one of our sisters was found out recently by her wife (who knew, but not the extent) and had to remove all of her lovely pictures and material from her MySpace, otherwise I'd recommend her as a starting point. She looked so wonderful, and I think she'd make a great example for all of us.

Hopefully this blathering helps! :hugs: