Steps 2 and 3 on how to change society's views on CDs and TGs

[GaleWarning]

Step 2.
We need to present a united front in espousing the cause and stop all this in-fighting.
It will not be so easy, though, for everyone to agree that what we have in common is way more important than the differences between us.

Step 3.
Accept that we have nothing to fear except fear itself.
This will be even more difficult.

:2c:

[Sheila]

well we could all do that Clayfish, by educating those nearest and dearest to us, our spouses, family and friends, .... however it appears some think the cause would be better served by conquering the world at large first ... go figure :sad:

[Shari]

There's a great deal more than simply not to fear.

I love the idealism, and the cause is certainly righteous and just..............
but it just won't work.

[Nicole Erin]

There is a lot of internal fighting in the TG community...
However, at least we are not going to harm each other over gender expression or try to deny each other rights.

When it really matters, we can pull together. We must.

[Senban]

Sheila said - "however it appears some think the cause would be better served by conquering the world at large first ..."

The truth is that we must think of both the small things and the large things simultaneously.

We can't only think of the big picture and ignore the small points because the small points are the reality of people's experiences in every day life.

We can't only think on a small scale because we'll forget the overall picture and only think of our immediate needs.

Nicole Erin is right when she says "we can pull together" but the truth is that before you can pull you have to step up and grab the rope and too many people aren't prepared to do so. That's actually fair enough in many respects but those people don't deserve the fruits of the efforts of those who actually are prepared to grab the rope, start pulling and risk a few blisters in the process. :2c:

[Starling]

I think we have to work on the world at large and those closest to us at the same time. The ones we love, and work with, and encounter every day, worry about how the world will perceive their acceptance of us, perhaps even more than we worry about our own acceptance. After all, they don't have the need. The less fear they have, the more acceptance we will receive.

:) Lallie

PS: I composed my message before I saw Sen's. She says more vividly what I feel, although I am more inclined to be lenient toward those who aren't yet ready to "grab the rope"...as long as they don't cut the rope. I'm trying to work up the guts to put on my gloves and grab.

[Senban]

Actually LALady, that's a very reasonable point and I'm glad you made it. It does take courage to grab the rope, it does and not everyone is ready to grab it right this second. We can encourage those who haven't yet got that courage and lead by example where possible. Thanks for making that point :hugs:

[Lora Olivia]

Great projects throughout time have all been accomplished not in one fell swoop or the wave of a magic wand but by the toils of many, moving and piecing together the parts a little at a time. Let us ask ourselves a theoretical question. A new transgender monument is to be built. It will be built out of marble blocks on a solid concrete foundation. Who is the most important person on this project? The one who digs the hole for the footing or the one who places the last block? The answer of course is neither one. They are both equally important, along with everyone in between because without any of them the monument would not be complete. Just a little food for thought. Oh and of course a :drink: to go with it lol

[Bev06 GG]

I think society already has a certain amount of empathy and compassion for TGs. I really dont think that the majority of people have a problem with it because their plight has been highlighted time and time again on and in the media. And when someone goes the whole hog and transitions they generally pale into the back ground and dont draw attention to themselves because they just want to live a normal life with no hassle.
CDs on the other hand do not. Infact my experience of CDs leaves me wondering what the hell theyre moaning about. Society aren't really bothered what you do, theyre neither thrilled for you nor repulsed by you. They really are not bothered so why dont you just get on and enjoy what your doing instead of wasting valuable dressing time in moaning. I could understand it if you were being persecuted to death like the Christians in some foreign climes but your not. This hate crime was an extreme case. Most people would not go to those extremes, infact most people would probably snigger to start with but then get bored and move onto the next amusing thing.
Bev

[MJ]

most are such drama Queens. the truth is it's not as bad as most think. just get out there and enjoy life...

[Kate Simmons]

Problem is I don't think that many in the community are ready to lose the "edge" of being a looked down upon, persecuted community. In others words, sometimes it's just easier to complain than to make progress.

[Bev06 GG]

I agree MJ. I do know that some CDs have had very unfortunate experiences as a consequence of what they do, but then so have half of society. My sister for instance had scoliosis when she was a child which gave her a curved spine resulting in a hunch back. As a family we endured all sorts of hard times with bullying and ridicule but we didn't go on about society accepting her, we just turned the other cheek and got on with life. Our view was that their immature attitude and small minds were theres to deal with not ours.
There are all sorts of minority groups out there who suffer misunderstanding and inequality.

[kathtx]

Society aren't really bothered what you do, theyre neither thrilled for you nor repulsed by you. They really are not bothered so why dont you just get on and enjoy what your doing instead of wasting valuable dressing time in moaning. I could understand it if you were being persecuted to death like the Christians in some foreign climes but your not.

Society isn't bothered by what we do? News item from Iraq, where
six gay men were murdered (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/04/05/gay.deaths.iraq/index.html) by their tribe. You think that tribal council would think twice about murdering someone caught crossdressing?

Sure, that was in the failed, lawless state of Iraq, not in the Americas or Europe or Australia or Japan, but it should give you an idea of how some elements of "society" see us. In the less civilized corners of the US, for instance, people still get disowned by their families, lose their jobs, get kicked out of apartments for having any one of the letters "LGBT" attached to their identity. Very occasionally one of us gets assualted or murdered. If you personally have not experienced harrassment, I'm happy for you. I haven't either, but I'm d**ned well aware that it happens.

As for this notion that because people get killed for plenty of reasons we needn't worry about violence against LGBT folks, I can only respond that working against a particular form of violence and discrimination doesn't mean we don't take other forms seriously. The fact that someone like Batty is concentrating her efforts on anti-LGBT violence doesn't imply that she considers, say, armed robbery to be unworthy of attention and prevention. She's just focusing on an area where she can make a difference through spreading awareness.

[Karren H]

Think I'll just skip ahead to Step 4...

SHOPPING!!

:)

[battybattybats]

Regarding the big-picture Vs imediate locality argument...

This is not a new debate. It played out in the Gay movement in Australis the UK and USA and Canada et al back in the 60's and 70's and 80's.

The Racial Equality groups went through it too when dealing with fighting segregated shools etc.. do you show one by one that Black people are as intelligent as Whites or do you fight the inequality in the schools and workplaces?

And women before that. Does the smart eloquent intelligent hard working woman convince her family and friends first or march in the streets demanding the vote?

Well we have the answers already. Both are required. The imediate is required to gain allies outside of our own community. But it needs to get them active and spreading the education to have a great impact as well as getting as many people out as possible. But alone it did little!

While the big picture draws more people out by encouraging and inspiring them and gets gains that make it easier for people to come out (and/or harder to hide). The two walk hand in hand.

The points where womens rights, racial equality rights, gay rights have all made major progress has been where both these courses have been followed!

The marching and door knocking and petitions for the vote for women worked in Australia long before women in the USA or the UK got the vote, and by a vote of the majority of voting men at the time!

The freedom rides of Aboriginals forcing their way into whites-only swimming pools lead to them winning the vote for them to stop being legally native animals and be legally people!

Publicly out people, spokespeople, individual education, public activity... these all are needed. History proves that the one-out-at-a-time does not work in isolation as much as it appeals to the softly-softly comfort zone. Nor does big picture activity get far on its own (but via court-cases it often does get a fair way on its own!) without public education awareness and experience of meeting and getting to know real people.



As for this notion that because people get killed for plenty of reasons we needn't worry about violence against LGBT folks, I can only respond that working against a particular form of violence and discrimination doesn't mean we don't take other forms seriously. The fact that someone like Batty is concentrating her efforts on anti-LGBT violence doesn't imply that she considers, say, armed robbery to be unworthy of attention and prevention. She's just focusing on an area where she can make a difference through spreading awareness.

Indeed!
In fact I've fought for a variety of other causes. Last night I was at the local Human Rights community Consultation trying to get equal rights for all Australians with a bill of rights!
And I've fought against this year: Violence and political discrimination against Goths and Emos, surgical abuses of Intersex infants, disability discrimination, racial discrimination, marriage inequality and more!

[Bev06 GG]

Society isn't bothered by what we do? News item from Iraq, where
six gay men were murdered (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/04/05/gay.deaths.iraq/index.html) by their tribe. You think that tribal council would think twice about murdering someone caught crossdressing?

Sure, that was in the failed, lawless state of Iraq, not in the Americas or Europe or Australia or Japan, but it should give you an idea of how some elements of "society" see us. In the less civilized corners of the US, for instance, people still get disowned by their families, lose their jobs, get kicked out of apartments for having any one of the letters "LGBT" attached to their identity. Very occasionally one of us gets assualted or murdered. If you personally have not experienced harrassment, I'm happy for you. I haven't either, but I'm d**ned well aware that it happens.

As for this notion that because people get killed for plenty of reasons we needn't worry about violence against LGBT folks, I can only respond that working against a particular form of violence and discrimination doesn't mean we don't take other forms seriously. The fact that someone like Batty is concentrating her efforts on anti-LGBT violence doesn't imply that she considers, say, armed robbery to be unworthy of attention and prevention. She's just focusing on an area where she can make a difference through spreading awareness.

Yes Kath I am well aware of what goes on in other countries. Some missionary friends of mine were burried alive 11 years ago for having a bible. The whole family 5 of them, the youngest only 3 years old were put into a large pit and burried. They didn't go to convert the heathens either, they went to help them build wells and the vast majority of the villagers loved them, it was just a few extremists who decided that they hated Christians. The fact is that we live in countries were you dont generally speaking get hung for walking down the street dressed as a woman. We might not be popular and we might get some harassment but by enlarge we dont suffer persecution and we enjoy a certain amount of freedom.
As for not suffering myself, well I have actually, I just choose not to moan about it. We chose this life style and its up to us to get on with it and if we are that bothered by the jibes and the obvious inequality, try to educate people. I personally am not.
Bev

[Sarah...]

We chose this life style and its up to us to get on with it and if we are that bothered by the jibes and the obvious inequality, try to educate people.

I didn't choose to be TS however I do understand what you are saying. I chose to accept my acquired gender when I could have carried on pretending to be what people assumed I was - male. My sister and I are both now involved in quietly working away on the educational aspects of perceptions of TS people.



There are all sorts of minority groups out there who suffer misunderstanding and inequality.

In fact there are so many that finding a "normal" human being is almost impossible. "Normal" is as much a minority as everything else. So we're all in the same boat really.


well we could all do that Clayfish, by educating those nearest and dearest to us, our spouses, family and friends, ....

I've taken this route and it seems to be working thus far. I'll keep on doing it my way. :)

Sarah...

[TGMarla]

I think many transgendered people want to conquer the world first because it would then be easier to explain to the ones nearest and dearest to them.

As for infighting, well, it's a forum. It's not inherent in trandgendered people per se, it's inherent in forums, where opinions are very diverse, and everyone is encouraged to chime in. Remember the old political opinion section? Man, the s**t flew there sometimes!

And as for getting out and about, and being seen in public, it's true that most people just don't care. They aren't paying much attention to you, and even if they read you, they are very unlikely to cause you any trouble whatsoever. It's amusing that the one thing that causes us the most stress and fear is the one thing that involves the least risk. And if it's a risk versus reward thing, going out is really one of the best things we can do.

[BeckiB]

most are such drama Queens. the truth is it's not as bad as most think. just get out there and enjoy life...

I agree. I think some enjoy the victim status

[valenstein]

I agree MJ. I do know that some CDs have had very unfortunate experiences as a consequence of what they do, but then so have half of society. My sister for instance had scoliosis when she was a child which gave her a curved spine resulting in a hunch back. As a family we endured all sorts of hard times with bullying and ridicule but we didn't go on about society accepting her, we just turned the other cheek and got on with life. Our view was that their immature attitude and small minds were theres to deal with not ours.
There are all sorts of minority groups out there who suffer misunderstanding and inequality.

This is such a good point and shouldn't be overlooked. There are so many people in the world who are different on the outside (what we can immediately see) that have been treated as lesser-than or been talked down to. Inside, people are much more insecure about how they appear to others and most want acceptance of some sort, even if they generally don't care what other people think.

If you don't treat anyone around you differently and accept them as is, a good many people will accept you back.

[Senban]

BeckiB said - "I agree. I think some enjoy the victim status"
^
|
|
Got it in one. Too many people find it easier in many ways to remain the victim. It gives them a sense of self and someone to blame. You only have to look at the sheer number of posts here preaching doom and gloom.

http://ui11.gamespot.com/554/onoz_4.gif

TGMarla said - "As for infighting, well, it's a forum. It's not inherent in trandgendered people per se, it's inherent in forums, where opinions are very diverse, and everyone is encouraged to chime in."

Absolutely! I frequent a number of forums related to lots of different areas of interest and it's the same everywhere.

[JoAnne Wheeler]

I do not think that WE can change society by coming out to our family &

close friends - that is the small picture and we first need to see the big

picture - We need the motion picture industry to make some movies about

our situation and elaborate on our many trials and tribulations as well as how

"society" sees and treats us - including the killing of us, the brutality that we

face, the harrassment that we struggle with, the discrimination imposed on

us - and the showing that we are BORN the way we are and that we are not

a bunch of sick, wacko, perverts. After the movies and all the hype that

they generate, we need books, a flurry of news articles that all show us in

a POSITIVE light. Many great people and many well known movie stars,

politicians, sports figures, business leaders, professionals etc have been and

are crossdressers. We need representatives on daily television talk shows

to tell of our plight and to cast us in a POSITIVE light. In other words, we

need to create a national outpouring of what we are and what we have to

offer to society and that we are not perverts or weirdos.

Do we have any gifted writers - that could help write movie scripts that

would incorporate all of our story - surley, there must be some Sisters out

there with this talent.

In other words, we need to convince society that it is okay to be a

crossdresser - that we are not perverts - that we were born that way -

that we have things to offer society - that we have always been out there

since the beginning of time - but because of our society's views, we have

had to live in the closet - we are tired of living a double life in the closet -

we are just as competent and talented as anyone.

Does anybody else feel this way - as I do ?

JoAnne Wheeler

[Deborah Jane]

What can i say JoAnne?

:brolleyes:

[MJ]

Also remember the more visible we are out in the real world the more accepting cding will become the problem is not too many want to try.

you go first it could be dangerous ..or not